Gem Hammers for Affected Players

[Horkas]

28 minutes ago, orianthi said:

 yes and I agree with you, and like I said I am pretty sure NCwest were not fully aware of the full contents of the patch themselves and this new system was as big a shock for them as it was for the players

This is my biggest concern overall. There is no excuse for them to not know what is happening with the product they are supporting/providing. If this is the case then it shows they have no concern for the player base and this is just a cash grab til the game dies.

[myuna]

22 minutes ago, Horkas said:

This is my biggest concern overall. There is no excuse for them to not know what is happening with the product they are supporting/providing. If this is the case then it shows they have no concern for the player base and this is just a cash grab til the game dies.

It maybe just coincidence....but... ain't it funny when some, if not all of these "mistakes", "bugs" or what they call them always take time to be responded to and then are followed by "its a known issue, we are looking into it" or " we are working on a fix"  and inevitably "we need some time" etc etc and meanwhile while these issues are being looked into they are generating incoming revenue. and more so while being "broken"  

 

 I can say for sure the issue in this thread is not the first and be sure it will not be the last and again it will cost the players in the end.

 

 Just remember people, NCwest, NCsoft are a business, they dont do this for 'fun' they develop a product with one goal and one goal only, to make money and when that income dies off, they will develop another and thats how it works................its business.

 

[Horkas]

8 minutes ago, myuna said:

It maybe just coincidence....but... ain't it funny when some, if not all of these "mistakes", "bugs" or what they call them always take time to be responded to and then are followed by "its a known issue, we are looking into it" or " we are working on a fix"  and inevitably "we need some time" etc etc and meanwhile while these issues are being looked into they are generating incoming revenue. and more so while being "broken"  

 

 I can say for sure the issue in this thread is not the first and be sure it will not be the last and again it will cost the players in the end.

That was kind of my initial point with my first post in this thread. Granted I approached in a very troll-like manner with the tears intro.

From a business perspective and being in this industry and marketing - I can't believe that they didn't know what they were doing. It just doesn't make sense and I have never seen a company make moves like this without knowing exactly what they were doing and even knowing how they would handle the backlash well ahead of time.

 

That is why I said if you don't like how these companies act and how they treat these games the answer is to quit.

The only thing they look at is the numbers. Player numbers, time spent in game, active time in game vs idle time, real dollars spent etc

When those numbers decrease then they get concerned, until that point they know they can do anything they want. It is all based off big data and psychology.

 

I have seen so many "shady" moves from working with these companies and manipulating the rng. NOTHING that is programmed ever ever has true randomness. There will always be patterns and manipulation of anything considered rng.

 

Not to say that the trove event is doing this but as a real example that I have seen first hand:

You can release the event, let a few people hit it big early on (especially since people share in open chat or you see it in the trove event window). This makes more people want to rush to try and get the same. You decrease the drop rates of rare items and have the first wave of buyers. Then it putters out and people stop spending because they didn't get what they want. As the event goes on the drop-rate of rare items increases to entice players to spend again or those who held out to spend now. Then you finish the event with lots of people getting good drops so the last memories of the event overall are positive and players will participate in the next one.

[Yerraniel]

7 hours ago, 821031_1452549945 said:

yes slots rng reroll when going to true breeze, yes u have to remove gems from slots before rerolling, its rng u can loose all or none.

also only if u upgrade to true breeze till 27th u will get 4 hammers back if not u will get nothing.

Thank you! Now, is that the only time you lose gem slots? Or does it happen in Scorpio too? @_@

 

That is indeed a sad news! IMHO it's already enough that you farm for the mats to upgrade, you shouldn't be farming for the slots you already paid for :)

[orianthi]

1 hour ago, Horkas said:

That was kind of my initial point with my first post in this thread. Granted I approached in a very troll-like manner with the tears intro.

From a business perspective and being in this industry and marketing - I can't believe that they didn't know what they were doing. It just doesn't make sense and I have never seen a company make moves like this without knowing exactly what they were doing and even knowing how they would handle the backlash well ahead of time.

 

That is why I said if you don't like how these companies act and how they treat these games the answer is to quit.

The only thing they look at is the numbers. Player numbers, time spent in game, active time in game vs idle time, real dollars spent etc

When those numbers decrease then they get concerned, until that point they know they can do anything they want. It is all based off big data and psychology.

 

I have seen so many "shady" moves from working with these companies and manipulating the rng. NOTHING that is programmed ever ever has true randomness. There will always be patterns and manipulation of anything considered rng.

 

Not to say that the trove event is doing this but as a real example that I have seen first hand:

You can release the event, let a few people hit it big early on (especially since people share in open chat or you see it in the trove event window). This makes more people want to rush to try and get the same. You decrease the drop rates of rare items and have the first wave of buyers. Then it putters out and people stop spending because they didn't get what they want. As the event goes on the drop-rate of rare items increases to entice players to spend again or those who held out to spend now. Then you finish the event with lots of people getting good drops so the last memories of the event overall are positive and players will participate in the next one.

+1  Exactly my thoughts too and I would take a good guess also the same thoughts of many many players too.

 

 Glad you mentioned the Trove event as a example, your description of how these evens work and why is, from my own proffesional experience with things like these, exactly how they work, and if players actually look and take notice in game, they will clearly see how there was quite alot of players posting in in-game chat all these 'top' items they were getting from troves..........now stop, think and take note again............after 2days how these 'top' prizes 'seem' alot less,  and no doubt, more than likely over the weekend, these 'top' items will briefly 'appear' again coincidentally during high server population times over the weekend. 

[Horkas]

Yup. They advertised 4 gems, I have only seen the ruby and sapphires drop. There are two gems they had shown in the picture that are yet to be seen in the trove window or anyone to confirm they got one from a trove key. I expect these gems to probably drop this weekend or again it was a form of false advertisement for the citrine and amethyst gems since they two are the really good ones to have. 

[821031_1452549945]

2 hours ago, Yerraniel said:

Thank you! Now, is that the only time you lose gem slots? Or does it happen in Scorpio too? @_@

 

That is indeed a sad news! IMHO it's already enough that you farm for the mats to upgrade, you shouldn't be farming for the slots you already paid for :)

i believe this is only rng reroll on slots (not 100% sure but when u go to scorpio you wont get this rng reroll thing thx god)

[orianthi]

24 minutes ago, 821031_1452549945 said:

i believe this is only rng reroll on slots (not 100% sure but when u go to scorpio you wont get this rng reroll thing thx god)

Nope it happens again in next patch and from evolution after True Scorpio, they show it in their last stream, so ....yeah expect more in the future. OH, and remember the higher level weapons require more and more Gem Hammers per socket

 

https://www.twitch.tv/bladeandsoul/v/61837154

 

[821031_1452549945]

Just now, orianthi said:

Nope it happens again in next patch and from evolution after Scorpio, they show it in their last stream, so ....yeah expect more in the future. OH, and remember the higher level weapons require more and more Gem Hammers per socket

ah yeah that far i didnt know D: scorpio wont change them so theres that at least :'D

[Drakeos99]

Just got affected by this and refuse to buy hammer from the store now i can't play my character VERY unhappy

[Arohk]

12 minutes ago, Drakeos99 said:

Just got affected by this and refuse to buy hammer from the store now i can't play my character VERY unhappy

how does having one socket less makes your character unplayable?

[Drakeos99]

39 minutes ago, Arohk said:

how does having one socket less makes your character unplayable?

Cause i do not have the gold and i refuse to use cash shop due to being expensive as hell in Australia :( for it due to busy real life :( and cannot do GHS/24m stuff :( 

[Arohk]

i just wanted to let you know , if you go for Oathbreaker, sockets will be cheaper again, starting with two hammers instead of 5 once you can unlock all 6 sockets.

might be worth to wait a bit to upgrade further or it will cost more hammers again i assume.

[Majiebeast]

I just lost 3 gem slots you better give me like 15 hammers what a *cricket*ing bullshit.

[GlowLight]

thx for helping players resolve their issues!

 

you have my love ncsoft!

[Nutrient]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:04 AM, Drakeos99 said:

Just got affected by this and refuse to buy hammer from the store now i can't play my character VERY unhappy

You will be extremely unhappy to find out that once legendary is out, gem slots are re-rolled... again.

[orianthi]

On 21/04/2016 at 0:16 AM, 821031_1452549945 said:

ah yeah that far i didnt know D: scorpio wont change them so theres that at least :'D

 True, They re-roll when you evolve from True Scorpio, and as for Legendary weapons they do also re-roll, but require different Hammers that will be  far far more expensive and and even more rare in game, although I am pretty sure they will be available in the cash shop.

 

 There are still quite a few more patches we are behind with other versions, so expect more re-rolling with every patch in the future too

 

[821031_1452549945]

5 hours ago, orianthi said:

 True, They re-roll when you evolve from True Scorpio, and as for Legendary weapons they do also re-roll, but require different Hammers that will be  far far more expensive and and even more rare in game, although I am pretty sure they will be available in the cash shop.

 

 There are still quite a few more patches we are behind with other versions, so expect more re-rolling with every patch in the future too

 

at this rate im not sure i even wanna unlock back slots for gems .-. maybe just save mats till i got so many to enchant from true pirate to max in 1 go :'D (who am i kidding this will never happen)

[orianthi]

4 hours ago, 821031_1452549945 said:

at this rate im not sure i even wanna unlock back slots for gems .-. maybe just save mats till i got so many to enchant from true pirate to max in 1 go :'D (who am i kidding this will never happen)

 yup, agree, they putting out content faster than you can keep up with it.............which some times is not so bad...............but when they take stuff away and move other things into the cash shop, coincidentlly the same time as there are 'bugs' in the game which lower drops rates and EVERY thing is "we are aware of the issue and are looking into it" or " we are aware and are working on a fix, but need some time" you start to see a pattern and a very obvious reason.

 

 I am sorry but 'Gamers' are not the dumb cellar dwellers these companies think, In fact quite apparently with this game the players are far more experienced in the game, the Original version, and how it was originally developed to work than the team who are running and 'maintaining' it are.

 

 Players have all seen and are all aware of all the tactics companies use or try to use to capitalise on anything and everything, we have seen it ALL before and Gamers DONT forget.

 

edit: Oh, forget to add, Gamers can smell BS from a mile away and they also TALK to each other not only in the game.

 

 

[Junkiechan]

I upgraded my staff to True Breaze last night and I have lost 2 slots. In my stupidity, I tought I need 1 gem hammer per slot, only to find out that the number increases with each one. From 4 slots I went to 2 and I used 5 hammers to get back to 4. The 5th one requires 6 hammers. I feel very disappointed about this. True, they offer 4 hammers, but it is not enough to get back what we owned. I don't want to rage quit over this, but I think it is a matter of time until that happens with all these changes made only to milk us of money.

[Hagdrisil]

On 2016-04-14 at 9:52 PM, AveryCloseCall said:

Hello everyone, first of all thank you very much for your patience while we’ve finalized a plan and confirmed how we’ll execute it. The weapon and Gem Socket systems are pretty complex due to the variety of points at which players can transition to the Silverfrost weapon path and variety of different Gem Hammer prices depending on socket number, weapon stage, and weapon type. After looking at a lot of complicated alternatives, we’ve come up with a plan to help make players feel better about potential bad luck when upgrading.

You can choose one of three points that randomizes your Gem Sockets. Because of the various paths you can choose from our weapons progression guide, the randomization of your Gem Sockets will only occur once during the Silverfrost weapon path.

• True Profane > Oathbreaker
• True Siren > True Oathbreaker
• True Pirate > True Breeze

With the planned maintenance downtime on April 27th we will be performing a one-time data pull of all characters who have used Gem Hammers and have already upgraded to the new Silverfrost weapons by that time. Within the next week, we will be granting four Gem Hammers for each character on that list. We realize that not every character will have time to upgrade by that point, but feel April 27th is a reasonable compromise that gives time to reach the new weapon path without delaying too much longer.

We recognize Gem Slots being rerolled is confusing, and for that reason we’ve already updated the descriptions of Gem Hammers to help clarify. We’re also working with the development team to see what overall improvements can be made to this system to make it more intuitive, and as you can imagine that is a complex challenge with possible ramifications to other regions. For that reason, we can’t yet describe or promise any changes, but we are working on it with your feedback.

 

Thank you again for your patience.

 

 

How is the issue of characters that have used gem hammers and not yet progressed their weapon to Oathbreaker? I have three characters who are in this exact state and will not be upgraded before this 'data pull' as you call it. Are we who have invested in the hammers going to be left out of this?

 

Edit: now that I read the thread more I see that the number of sockets you end up with after the upgrade is RNG. >>THAT<< is completely against game design rule #1 .. being "Never dis-empower the player." This is one of the reasons that Aion has declined so badly, and I am expecting once this will cause more people to leave BnS. It's why I chose to move on from Aion to other places, and have no qualms of dong the same again.

 

I have one question... why are gem hammers not in the drop tables for the daily quest reward boxes? Other regions have this, why not NA/EU?

 

I'm already considering easing off my 4+ hours a day of play time as it is... and this isn't considering the looming pay wall that is legendary gear. That is a whole other issue I will leave for another thread.

[Denki]

Well i updated my weapon at all gem slots unlocked at 4 and lost my slots, so i had to get 21 gem hammers to upgrade it to have 6...

[Latarius]

1 hour ago, Denki said:

Well i updated my weapon at all gem slots unlocked at 4 and lost my slots, so i had to get 21 gem hammers to upgrade it to have 6...

The Fun Fact will be, that this will happen AGAIN After you all change to legendary Weapon, so even if u are fine with those 4 Hammers u get back from NCSoft, u have 2 Options. a) u need to stay with ur current number of sockets, cause U WILL loose them again in Future, when u change to legendary weapon path, or b) you you unlock all slots again (invl the 4 Hammer u get or not if u dont own true breeze untill 27.) and in 2 - 6 Months when u all wear ur legendary you are paying THE 3RD TIME for ur sockets thats just insane LOL ....

[orianthi]

1 hour ago, Latarius said:

The Fun Fact will be, that this will happen AGAIN After you all change to legendary Weapon, so even if u are fine with those 4 Hammers u get back from NCSoft, u have 2 Options. a) u need to stay with ur current number of sockets, cause U WILL loose them again in Future, when u change to legendary weapon path, or b) you you unlock all slots again (invl the 4 Hammer u get or not if u dont own true breeze untill 27.) and in 2 - 6 Months when u all wear ur legendary you are paying THE 3RD TIME for ur sockets thats just insane LOL ....

 They randomly re-roll again  after Scorpio whether you choose Legendary path or 'normal' path, so there is no getting around it and at this stage they require 5 and 6 Gem Hammers per socket,  Also Legendary weapons require 'special' hammers which will no doubt be insanely over priced.  We have also quite a few more patch's to follow in the future so expect more Gem Socket re-rolls in the future. so yeah it looks bad now, but its only going to get worse. 

[Xelo]

People pay real money to get Gem Hammers (as they are basically non existant as drops in NA/EU), and you actually have a game mechanic that simply removes the gem slots at certain points in your gear progression? And your "generous" compensation for this is 4 Gem Hammers, when at the time where the gem slots get removed you need 5+ GH to get back a single slot?

 

Now that is certainly a good way to prevent players from ever buying GH on the Hongmoon store again. People will probably start to wonder if other things they buy for real money will also be taken away (trying to avoid the term "stolen" here) after some time.

 

There is onyl one acceptable solution here: refunding all gem slots (slots, not hammers!) to all affected players and removing the slot-removal mechanic ASAP.