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Gallick

30 Second CC Is WAY Too Long In PvP

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Gallick   

Not sure if this topic has been brought up on the forums or not, but this is an issue, that quite honestly shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. 30 second CC in PvP should have never been a thing to begin with! Now obviously this is mainly an issue for Summoner's, but it's honestly ridiculous! A player shouldn't be able to put a summoner or their pet to sleep for 30 seconds, leaving the counterpart extremely vulnerable. There is a reason that Blizzard made CC abilities in WoW PvP capped at 10 seconds! Because any longer is extremely unfair! This needs to be addressed and reconsidered. I am honestly shaking my head that 30 seconds was even allowed in PvP in the first place, lol. It's just sad.

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PatchKid   
4 minutes ago, Gallick said:

Not sure if this topic has been brought up on the forums or not, but this is an issue, that quite honestly shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. 30 second CC in PvP should have never been a thing to begin with! Now obviously this is mainly an issue for Summoner's, but it's honestly ridiculous! A player shouldn't be able to put a summoner or their pet to sleep for 30 seconds, leaving the counterpart extremely vulnerable. There is a reason that Blizzard made CC abilities in WoW PvP capped at 10 seconds! Because any longer is extremely unfair! This needs to be addressed and reconsidered. I am honestly shaking my head that 30 seconds was even allowed in PvP in the first place, lol. It's just sad.

The 30s CC is a "sleep" mechanic.  This means that if the target takes a single point of damage, the CC ends.

 

For summoners, they can bypass this mechanic very easily.  If the player sleeps the summoner, then I believe they can use the swap to swap with their cat and this will wake them.  If the player sleeps the cat, then the summoner need only to go stand on top of their pet and it will get hit and wake up.

 

Another thing to note about the sleep mechanic is that targets in sleep state will heal like 5 or 10% of their HP every few seconds until they are at 100% HP or get woken up.  Therefore, this is rarely used as a long-term CC in PvP and only works on less knowledgeable players in the arena.

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Gallick   
19 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

The 30s CC is a "sleep" mechanic.  This means that if the target takes a single point of damage, the CC ends.

 

For summoners, they can bypass this mechanic very easily.  If the player sleeps the summoner, then I believe they can use the swap to swap with their cat and this will wake them.  If the player sleeps the cat, then the summoner need only to go stand on top of their pet and it will get hit and wake up.

 

Another thing to note about the sleep mechanic is that targets in sleep state will heal like 5 or 10% of their HP every few seconds until they are at 100% HP or get woken up.  Therefore, this is rarely used as a long-term CC in PvP and only works on less knowledgeable players in the arena.

Yes I fully realize that this mechanic is ended by damage, and no the Summoner cannot use the cat swap ability when EITHER of them are put to sleep.

 

When they put the cat to sleep, sure you can run over to the cat and try to get them to accidentally do damage to him and wake him up, but it doesn't always work. When they're smart enough to put the Summoner to sleep, it's a whole other story. The only way out is to use your "trinket" ability, after that, they can easily just put you to sleep again because Phantom Grip isn't that big of a cooldown. As soon as the summoner is put to sleep, you can easily make your cat go into defensive stance, but that only lasts about 8 seconds, and as soon as that is done your cat is open to being stun-locked and killed very easily, as there is a period of time where they cannot go back down to defensive stance. Another thing, when the Summoner is put to sleep they cannot use their E to call their cat back to them. So you cannot do the reverse and have your cat sit on top of you to hopefully be hit by accident and woke up.

 

Regardless of the above, why should an arena match of a Summoner VS a Blade Dancer or Force Master, be based around one of them putting the cat to sleep, then the Summoner sitting on top of their cat and both waiting in a stand-still for 30 seconds. I've been in a lot of matches like that and it's really a disgrace to PvP.

 

I am also fully aware of the sleep mechanic healing the character put to sleep, but it really does not matter when it's the Summoner put to sleep, because the cat will for sure die. After the cat is dead, it is extremely hard to resurrect your cat again during the match. The Summoner is extremely vulnerable, since they've just lost their main source of CC, and will almost always lose the match after this.

 

I am not asking for NCSoft to remove the sleep CC ability, all I'm saying is that is should not last for 30 seconds, it should be 10 seconds at the very most.

54 minutes ago, LelouchRequiem said:

seems fair to me, cats literally just win pvp for summoners, doesn't take any skills compare to other class.

Spoken like a true noob who knows nothing about PvP. Get above 2100 and see how things really are.

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This is far from a big problem in PvP. You can rotate your defensives slightly better to stop the initial sleep. Or maybe even save trinket for it since you have beckon/immunities to avoid damage and if you're lucky avoid the grab. Phantom grip for bd is 24 seconds and fm is 18 seconds but the sleep for an fm is a 30 second cd so they're not that low of a cd.

Edited by Livid Elements

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Oxygen   

Phantom grip is lower CD but the sleep skill in phantom grip is higher CD which is almost as much as the CC time which is 30 seconds so the sleep skill is like 25-30 sec CD.

Phantom grip just allows you to do the sleep skill but both have different CDs and if you do phantom grip you can't do the sleep skill unless the sleep skill itself is out of CD.

 

As an FM,I personally prefer to burst the cat down (which I can kill fast enough) instead of sleeping it as when I sleep it,It takes time and its risky as summoner can always go stay on cat and when they do this,you are either prohibited to use any AOE skills (+far higher room for error in targeting) or do AOEs and wake up the cat..

One of our AOEs is the meteor which counters your petal storm as well as our impact (stage 1) which is somewhat a skill shot so it can accidentally hit the cat and wake it up.

 

True,30 seconds is alot but its on a pretty unreliable form of CC which can be countered really easily if you know what to do.

Don't forget that unlike normal CCs,the sleep CC heals your cat pretty fast so if we previously did any damage to it,we are simply giving up our effort to calm the cat down for a while and also risking alot because,again as I said sleep is pretty unreliable form of CC in PVP,trust me..

 

If you are FM and know how weak that sleep is,you will understand.

 

If they sleep your cat,just stand on your cat, and keep going right then left while being so close to your cat then put petal storm and trust me,the FM vs you is 99% likely to hit your cat and wake it up unless they are really lucky or bots.

No human can focus that well on not hitting the cat given that we disregard the luck element which won't even last for that long and that is because of human error.

Just try what I told you and you will see how easy it is.

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Gallick   
12 minutes ago, Glacial said:

If they sleep your cat,just stand on your cat, and keep going right then left while being so close to your cat then put petal storm and trust me,the FM vs you is 99% likely to hit your cat and wake it up unless they are really lucky or bots.

No human can focus that well on not hitting the cat given that we disregard the luck element which won't even last for that long and that is because of human error.

Just try what I told you and you will see how easy it is.

Yes I know this and I do it. It works for the most part, but not always. The real problem is when the FM/BD puts the Summoner to sleep, they now have a 30 second window to kill the cat, which is extremely easy to do. The Summoner cannot recall the cat while he is asleep, and the gap between the cat doing his defensive stance is quite a few seconds, so after the first defensive stance(8 seconds I believe), the cat is vulnerable to being stun locked and killed quite fast. I am pretty sure the cat cannot go back into defensive stance through a variety of CC-like abilities(FOR SURE CAN'T WHILE STUNNED), so after the first defensive stance, the cat is basically a sitting duck.

 

Edit: and yes I realize that I can "trinket" the sleep, but the sleep ability is a shorter CD than my "trinket", so as soon as I'm put back into another sleep, my cat is as good as dead.

Edited by Gallick

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Oxygen   
16 minutes ago, Gallick said:

Yes I know this and I do it. It works for the most part, but not always. The real problem is when the FM/BD puts the Summoner to sleep, they now have a 30 second window to kill the cat, which is extremely easy to do. The Summoner cannot recall the cat while he is asleep, and the gap between the cat doing his defensive stance is quite a few seconds, so after the first defensive stance(8 seconds I believe), the cat is vulnerable to being stun locked and killed quite fast. I am pretty sure the cat cannot go back into defensive stance through a variety of CC-like abilities(FOR SURE CAN'T WHILE STUNNED), so after the first defensive stance, the cat is basically a sitting duck.

Look,I haven't played summoner before but I have fought quite a few of them including  actually some "good" summoners.

However,I am pretty sure you have a skill to escape that sleep.(Or an escape skill that can be specced to escape that sleep) and if not then I am sure you have a skill to escape the phantom grip instantly..

 

As an FM,I can spec my second wind to escape phantom grip,grapped and grappled etc instantly but it has quite a fair CD and we have an impact escape that can let one escape out of phantom grip etc but only if the target is frozen and that has like no CD.

 

I am sure you have your escape tools too to counter this.

 

Also,whether they sleep you or not,they can divine veil then kill your cat fast so you being disabled for those 5-10 seconds won't really matter to an FM..The thing that matters is the summoner itself who keeps hiding and petal storm after while doing some nice damage skills.

 

For me,I never even bother to sleep the summoner nor the cat..It just wastes my time and buys your cat more time to attack me so I burst the cat down while trying to get it out of summoner range and lifesteal off it while juking it then go for the summoner after..FMs simply don't need badly to sleep you to beat you. XD

 

Its just like that cat grapple skill that allows you to do a really strong debuff on enemy and does quite a real burst..I can call that unbalanced but nope..I can escape that using my second wind and my impact if the cat is frozen..Same story for you when you get phantom gripped and I find your situation less punishing if you fail too because,the sleep heals you instead and gives you somewhat a second chance or more time to think.

Edited by Glacial

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Like i said the FM Phantom grip is 18 second cd and sleep is a 30 second cd which means if you trinket it the first time the second time would only be a 6 second sleep. Bd is a 24 second cd on phantom grip with no cd on sleep so it'd be 12 seconds worth of sleep. Against an fm the trinket idea along with you're q for the 6 seconds while you are slept would work. Not sure about a BD but you could trinket as well, use e (not sure if you can), or save cat cc for when he grips you. If he sleeps cat you just stand on cat. 

Eaxtly the sleep is much less punishing than the cat grapple. Grapple is 18 second cd and lasts 5 seconds. Summoner can easily do 60%+ dmg during that time. Again though it is something that can be avoided.

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4 hours ago, Gallick said:

Not sure if this topic has been brought up on the forums or not, but this is an issue, that quite honestly shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. 30 second CC in PvP should have never been a thing to begin with! Now obviously this is mainly an issue for Summoner's, but it's honestly ridiculous! A player shouldn't be able to put a summoner or their pet to sleep for 30 seconds, leaving the counterpart extremely vulnerable. There is a reason that Blizzard made CC abilities in WoW PvP capped at 10 seconds! Because any longer is extremely unfair! This needs to be addressed and reconsidered. I am honestly shaking my head that 30 seconds was even allowed in PvP in the first place, lol. It's just sad.

Obvious troll is obvious, still a hilarious read tho! 

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6 hours ago, Gallick said:

Not sure if this topic has been brought up on the forums or not, but this is an issue, that quite honestly shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. 30 second CC in PvP should have never been a thing to begin with! Now obviously this is mainly an issue for Summoner's, but it's honestly ridiculous! A player shouldn't be able to put a summoner or their pet to sleep for 30 seconds, leaving the counterpart extremely vulnerable. There is a reason that Blizzard made CC abilities in WoW PvP capped at 10 seconds! Because any longer is extremely unfair! This needs to be addressed and reconsidered. I am honestly shaking my head that 30 seconds was even allowed in PvP in the first place, lol. It's just sad.

your cat knocks down for like 8 seconds or so while you blast away someone's hp from 100 to 40% in a matter of seconds, is that fair?
everything else about summer is WAY too op vs most classes, is that fair?

 

Don't ask for what impacts you negatively to be fixed, instead ask for all the crap to be fixed, there is nothing more broken than a summoner...errr maybe a sin but meh

Edited by DeadlyCode

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Gallick   
19 hours ago, DeadlyCode said:

your cat knocks down for like 8 seconds or so while you blast away someone's hp from 100 to 40% in a matter of seconds, is that fair?
everything else about summer is WAY too op vs most classes, is that fair?

 

Don't ask for what impacts you negatively to be fixed, instead ask for all the crap to be fixed, there is nothing more broken than a summoner...errr maybe a sin but meh

If you think Summoner's are the most OP class atm, then you're about as smart as a Donald Trump supporter. Get above 2.2k then you can come and talk.

21 hours ago, SilverMushin said:

Obvious troll is obvious, still a hilarious read tho! 

Come back when you have something to bring to the conversation. You sir, are the troll.

23 hours ago, Glacial said:

Look,I haven't played summoner before but I have fought quite a few of them including  actually some "good" summoners.

However,I am pretty sure you have a skill to escape that sleep.(Or an escape skill that can be specced to escape that sleep) and if not then I am sure you have a skill to escape the phantom grip instantly..

 

As an FM,I can spec my second wind to escape phantom grip,grapped and grappled etc instantly but it has quite a fair CD and we have an impact escape that can let one escape out of phantom grip etc but only if the target is frozen and that has like no CD.

 

I am sure you have your escape tools too to counter this.

 

Also,whether they sleep you or not,they can divine veil then kill your cat fast so you being disabled for those 5-10 seconds won't really matter to an FM..The thing that matters is the summoner itself who keeps hiding and petal storm after while doing some nice damage skills.

 

For me,I never even bother to sleep the summoner nor the cat..It just wastes my time and buys your cat more time to attack me so I burst the cat down while trying to get it out of summoner range and lifesteal off it while juking it then go for the summoner after..FMs simply don't need badly to sleep you to beat you. XD

 

Its just like that cat grapple skill that allows you to do a really strong debuff on enemy and does quite a real burst..I can call that unbalanced but nope..I can escape that using my second wind and my impact if the cat is frozen..Same story for you when you get phantom gripped and I find your situation less punishing if you fail too because,the sleep heals you instead and gives you somewhat a second chance or more time to think.

You haven't played a Summoner before, but you're going to tell me what they can and cannot do? The only escape from sleep is my trinket ability, that's it. I have another ability to get out of Phantom Grip sure, but you have to time it properly or it doesn't work. So basically I get Phantom Gripped and put to sleep, I use my trinket, well the sleep ability has a lower CD than my trinket, so as soon as I'm put in the next sleep my cat will be killed very easily. There's no good reason that the sleep effect should match the CD of the sleep ability, do you not understand how broken that is? You don't need to try and coach me on how to fight a Force Master, I do just fine against them when they're not playing the stupid sleep tactic. Thanks for the intel though.

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Oxygen   
47 minutes ago, Gallick said:

 

You haven't played a Summoner before, but you're going to tell me what they can and cannot do? 

That's enough for me to read. :)

Sometimes,you can learn a class better if you fight it rather than play it yourself because,you get to see the better plays that class can do but if you do it yourself,you won't be able to guess those better plays yourself.

 

You are not trying to accept other's opinion so you won't learn anything new.No one is a fortified castle by their own but you definitely do need to accept other's advice and try to discuss matters in a civilized manner so it can be constructive and useful.

I was trying to help but you are going rather aggressive at me hence just trying to tell me "shoo away" or "I won't even try to think of what you are trying to tell me because,you didn't play it"..

 

Well,meet the bitter truth:NCSoft ain't changing anything unless they feel like it..Besides,you are like 1 grain of sand among trillions of grains in a big desert.

They won't even care if you rage or leave..I am giving facts.

Best evidence is that tons of people are complaining of bots and they are still roaming everywhere in the game and increasing everyday..Best thing they did was giving us an additional block list for the bots and spammers alone but after,I personally never saw any other improvement regarding this matter although,complaints about it are increasing everyday.

Hence,your post is basically a waste of time and effort be your words right or wrong.That was just one last advice but it's up to you to accept it or not.

 

Sorry to have bothered to reply to your post at first place and for inconvenience.

Have a good day!

 

 

 

Edited by Glacial

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On 4/13/2016 at 6:30 PM, Gallick said:

If you think Summoner's are the most OP class atm, then you're about as smart as a Donald Trump supporter. Get above 2.2k then you can come and talk.

Come back when you have something to bring to the conversation. You sir, are the troll.

You haven't played a Summoner before, but you're going to tell me what they can and cannot do? The only escape from sleep is my trinket ability, that's it. I have another ability to get out of Phantom Grip sure, but you have to time it properly or it doesn't work. So basically I get Phantom Gripped and put to sleep, I use my trinket, well the sleep ability has a lower CD than my trinket, so as soon as I'm put in the next sleep my cat will be killed very easily. There's no good reason that the sleep effect should match the CD of the sleep ability, do you not understand how broken that is? You don't need to try and coach me on how to fight a Force Master, I do just fine against them when they're not playing the stupid sleep tactic. Thanks for the intel though.

So you're saying CC for 30 seconds is too long because as a summoner you get owned AFTER 2200? What about before that? You just seem like a selfish person who only cares about your needs. Summoners are THE most or 2nd most OP class in the game besides assassin and Blade Dancers because of all your broken ass abilities and how easy it is to play the class...so drop the QQing because you finally face the real pros after diamond that may know how to counter you better than people below diamond. 

 

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SuGenma   
On 4/11/2016 at 11:38 PM, Gallick said:

Not sure if this topic has been brought up on the forums or not, but this is an issue, that quite honestly shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. 30 second CC in PvP should have never been a thing to begin with! Now obviously this is mainly an issue for Summoner's, but it's honestly ridiculous! A player shouldn't be able to put a summoner or their pet to sleep for 30 seconds, leaving the counterpart extremely vulnerable. There is a reason that Blizzard made CC abilities in WoW PvP capped at 10 seconds! Because any longer is extremely unfair! This needs to be addressed and reconsidered. I am honestly shaking my head that 30 seconds was even allowed in PvP in the first place, lol. It's just sad.

Lol you must be trolling right? How else do u want to win against summoner with insane heal, invis class with burster. Let alone cats grab which has 10 sec cd and our escape skill has 30 sec cd. You must be really really really be super bad noob to complain about 30 sec stun, what doesn't even exist. You have 2 escape skills and yet u complain? Git gut noob

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amorent   

I don't feel any compassion for a summoner and nobody else here. You are flaunting your 2100 ach as a summoner here and call people noobs? That's rich coming from a summoner

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one time a summoner insulted me because he was diamond and me only gold in 1 vs 1 , because in tag team i dared ask how could he lose so fast against his opponent .

Make me laugh than the summ dare take people from high even though they have the easiest class , bm is far mre hard to play .

 

Do you know than sleep status in gone when you take damage , don't worry about this . The worst is after the status when the stunlock begin . COnsiders this status like a normal stun or daze , you can escape this with your only normal escape or not .

 

Class who have the right to complain are bm , wl, because if they are caught they die .

with your dandelion , your petal storm and your doom and bloom you are not the most squishy to kill .

Go 2100 + with one of this class before talk and after come back complain .

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Infamous   

hahhahhah. SO a summoner is QQing that he gets beaten? Dude, if pvping is too hard as summoner for you, then you better avoid arena.

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