Dollbaby89

Expection of range/melee cls

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hi there, i'm playing a melee cls (KFM) and i noticed that many players, especially range cls expect me to tank everything.

Isn't it a game without cls distribution? usually i play with my static.. our FM for example always tanks everything without any problems.

So why do range cls expect melee to tank for them? it is really annoying..

Compares to range cls, melee isn't easy to play. I don't want to say i can't tank. But i don't want to play with people, who only relies on other, especially in 4man-dungeons.

For example, as melee i can't dps Fujin as much as Raijin, cuz of his counter and his movement, but due to my high AP's range player always expect me to tank Fujin.

So please, be a little more couragous Forcemasters.

I really do not want to flame, i would like to make you guys conscious that there is more than just pressing rmb and lmb :)

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you play a kfm.. one of the better tank classes in this game.. and you complain about range dps in 4man that you have to tank? humz

 

i play kfm  to, and i prefer to have control of the boss and the fight  so.. i love tanking

Edited by 882184_1452550488

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yeah, but that's not the matter and it is not always possible to hold aggro against player who has 20AP more than you. If they die, they will almost flame you.

The point is, they always let you do the hard work while standing safety at the background. Best example is Fujin like i mention before. It brakes the fight, when they send melee to Fujin. I usually duo Fujin and Raijin with my FM friend, But if i have to attack Fujin, it would take ages.

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dmoe33   

Ermm why are u targeting FMs specifically? im an FM and if there is no BM/KFM that uses threat i will always take aggro and then have to kite it which then causes them to flame me for moving and the boss following me which causes me to flame them back explaining otherwise. I really dont like threads like these targeting a specific class/player type etc. If they flame you they are just salty most of the time and want someone to blame also dont say " be a little more courageous Force Masters" because that is just dumb

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is even more fun when you are in party with kfm fm and sum and they expect you (destroyer) to tank cuz you got 'shield' 8D indeed this game has no roles and any can take, some just got either more skills for threat, better burst or block ability to do it. generally i see kfms/bms take even if sum or fm in party and if no kfm/bm then fm/sum

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vita   
5 hours ago, Dollbaby89 said:

yeah, but that's not the matter and it is not always possible to hold aggro against player who has 20AP more than you. If they die, they will almost flame you.

The point is, they always let you do the hard work while standing safety at the background. Best example is Fujin like i mention before. It brakes the fight, when they send melee to Fujin. I usually duo Fujin and Raijin with my FM friend, But if i have to attack Fujin, it would take ages.

Because KFM/BM are the tank in this game and FM are not? The only other tank is summoner cat, but they can't tank as well as a KFM or BM. You should be able to hold agro against higher AP player if you spec some threat to your skills.

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Vesurian   

Many of the ranged classes in BnS have a skill point or two that reduces or eliminates the threat from some of their skills whereas Kfm and destroyers have skill points to increase the threat to skills. Meaning that whiles there are no real class designations there are things that show what is intended for these classes. I play a Warlock and have been forced to tank on occasion, it doesn't go well. Even though I can block and Iframe I have one damage reduction CD and take a ton of damage as I play a high DPS class with very little focus on defense. It's ridiculous to expect ranged classes to tank as we have no choice but to kite and that makes life difficult for everyone. 

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25 minutes ago, Vesurian said:

Many of the ranged classes in BnS have a skill point or two that reduces or eliminates the threat from some of their skills whereas Kfm and destroyers have skill points to increase the threat to skills. Meaning that whiles there are no real class designations there are things that show what is intended for these classes. I play a Warlock and have been forced to tank on occasion, it doesn't go well. Even though I can block and Iframe I have one damage reduction CD and take a ton of damage as I play a high DPS class with very little focus on defense. It's ridiculous to expect ranged classes to tank as we have no choice but to kite and that makes life difficult for everyone. 

destro got only 1 skill with long cd. kfm and bm i believe have on shorter cd and bigger increase in aggro %. i know for sure fm and wl got some aggro reduce not sure for other classes tho

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Shiune   

KFMs and BMs are tanks. period. 

 

Only because there is no holy trinity it doesn't mean we don't have main tanks in the game and those 2 are main tanks. 

 

I mean you don't wanna take a KFM or a BM for the dps in your group don't you? 

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Both parties in one Dungeon and nobody is takin shiat.

 

FMs deal with the aggro or delete.

 

KFMs: never spec threat, a good FM will always take your aggro away no matter your DPS or your cricket threat (which doesn't work at all btw, RU server confirmed). Spec on a full DPS build and proper blocking and you will be a worthy party member who also dealt slightly less dmg than fm so not being put in da trash.

 

oh who do we have here? the best FM and KFM in eu servers? yes stop crying and learn cause that's the only way to archieve what they did

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Shiune   

What? Do you really think Radeyz can't hold the aggro against Bevv if he wants to? 

Give him 5 seconds time to aggro the boss and if he specs for threat he most probably won't loose aggro once. 

If everyone goes full yolo at a boss in the beginning of the fight you can't expect a kfm/BM to tank shit. 

Not saying a FM or any other class can't tank the bosses we have in the current content but you get my point. 

 

For a BM it is even necessary that the boss hits his block first to gain aggro. 

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Dlacik   

If BM or KFM starts with their +300% threat skill there is no way to take the agro from them even if you don`t wait at start.

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2 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

If BM or KFM starts with their +300% threat skill there is no way to take the agro from them even if you don`t wait at start.

it's 150% and it doesn't stack up. as I told you this is not meant to be used, it is made for communitys like EU/NA where everyone crybabys when they can't handle a mob and shame someone else for their failure.

 

this game is made for group play and that there's no holy trinity incentivizes constant awareness or you gonna die behaviour.

 

I hope Asura gets patched soon so all the people who brainlessly ranged dps and then get shrekd get shrekd by asura.

 

P.S. I can sense you have as much clue about KFMs as I do about FMs and I can tell u I will never touch an FM cause I want challenging play and not cry that I always have aggro

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Shiune   

Ok Mr. I know everything about KFMs but can't hold aggro for shit (while every other GOOD KFM can) and blame it on a reason which is even more shit and does not even exist (hurr durr RU server proved threat isn't working hurr durr). 

 

Come the fck on. 

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5 minutes ago, MushinKFM said:

it's 150% and it doesn't stack up. as I told you this is not meant to be used, it is made for communitys like EU/NA where everyone crybabys when they can't handle a mob and shame someone else for their failure.

 

this game is made for group play and that there's no holy trinity incentivizes constant awareness or you gonna die behaviour.

 

I hope Asura gets patched soon so all the people who brainlessly ranged dps and then get shrekd get shrekd by asura.

 

P.S. I can sense you have as much clue about KFMs as I do about FMs and I can tell u I will never touch an FM cause I want challenging play and not cry that I always have aggro

To read this makes me really happy now, i really thought im the only one, who think this way. 

It makes me sad that everybody consider KFM and also BM as that so called "maintank" 

 

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@Dollbaby89 I take aggro most of the time. I do it mainly by outdpsing the FMs with:

 

Tab Buff + Legendary 4 (3rd branch from the left) spam.

it's about 12k critt spam and on critt you can do it again + 3 chireg on critt.

 

@Shiune stop telling me what is right and what is not, I don't mean to blame your class in any way but still you can consider our class the one who likes playing dangerously since being meele gets you into a lot of red and yellow circles we have to dodge (not in 4m thou). FMs can pretty much queue with a bunch of other FMs and do a speedrun in a dungeon, they would easily do it if they are good and die like pancakes if they are bad.  Yes everybody can play a FM cause it's the strongest DPS class right now but many would be bored of playing it and so the other classes do slightly less DPS than FM. to compare it with the video. Radeyz had better gear in the dungeon and he played it perfectly with his rotation still he only dealt 7-9k with his F whilst Bevv (he was even not geared like he is now) does his perfect rota he can outdps everyone. not meaning that I can't take FM aggro away, I mean I can never take Bevvs aggro away and I played with him once.

last words...

 

have a nice day ^^

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Dlacik   

I see... 140% legit RU private server confirmed.

 

The threat boosts skills were there since the game was released in Korea. In that point it wasn`t even sure if it will be released in western market so your statement that it`s for EU/NA doesn`t make sense.

 

The fact that there is no holy trinity doesn`t mean that there are no roles in groups. Some classes have more tools to avoid dmg (spammable block, shorter CDs on iframes) + they have tools to keep aggro (threat buff with 100% uptime, high dmg skill with extra threat) so they are clearly designed to hold the boss attention while other classes brings different things to party.

 

Btw. I wasn`t talking about 150% buff but about the KFM`s Tremor or BM`s five point strike that both can be speced to deal extra threat. BTW Tremor`s/FPS`s extra threat stacks with the 150% threat buff.

Edited by Dlacik

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@Dlacik dood.

 

you see a threat bracelet? you throw it away.

 

this was the worst shit you can have it was confirmed over all my RU server playtime, I've been playing a BM and there was not aggro skill on my 1 Block there. yea I outdpsd them 400+ atk guys with my poor 394atk Lab weapon and no they were good players I did lab4 with. tanking as KFM is just a defensive skill that is a must have for a meele class to survive all this, the long Q/E iFrames are also just made to give KFM an easier time being at meele range, Forcemaster also has 2 defensive skills (at least) to help themselves out if they are in danger.

 

I want you to find random KFMs (no people that you already know are good) with threat necklace and queue with them, I bet you have the best time of your life.

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4 minutes ago, Dollbaby89 said:

It makes me sad that everybody consider KFM and also BM as that so called "maintank"

Well, it's because they ARE. If you can't be with either class, it's probably because you're bad at tanking. Just gotta keep in mind to give KFMs/BMs time to attack first so they can generate threat, then it's DPS time for other classes. Not something everyone remembers, yes, but once they do, it's up to these tank classes do what they do best, which is keeping aggro.

 

Summoners have cat's Taunt as backup aggro. Backup because it forces threat to cat for taunt's duration (8s for a 12s cooldown), but once it's over, aggro resets to whoever had aggro before. Useful but inconsistent, best used against groups of mobs or last resource against SOME bosses (you really don't wanna use it on BW, for instance).

 

As for FMs getting aggro, there are, I think, 3 skills with trees you can spec into not generating threat. Either spec into those trees or be more conservative on skills that generate threat. Not to say they shouldn't know how to tank, because there may be times where they will have to do it, but that's not quite they excel at. Their thing is ranged DPS and occasional iframe support against AOE wipes.

 

All of this based on personal experience and inputs from other people. Could be wrong about some things.

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Shiune   
6 minutes ago, MushinKFM said:

@Dollbaby89 I take aggro most of the time. I do it mainly by outdpsing the FMs with:

 

Tab Buff + Legendary 4 (3rd branch from the left) spam.

it's about 12k critt spam and on critt you can do it again + 3 chireg on critt.

 

@Shiune stop telling me what is right and what is not, I don't mean to blame your class in any way but still you can consider our class the one who likes playing dangerously since being meele gets you into a lot of red and yellow circles we have to dodge (not in 4m thou). FMs can pretty much queue with a bunch of other FMs and do a speedrun in a dungeon, they would easily do it if they are good and die like pancakes if they are bad.  Yes everybody can play a FM cause it's the strongest DPS class right now but many would be bored of playing it and so the other classes do slightly less DPS than FM. to compare it with the video. Radeyz had better gear in the dungeon and he played it perfectly with his rotation still he only dealt 7-9k with his F whilst Bevv (he was even not geared like he is now) does his perfect rota he can outdps everyone. not meaning that I can't take FM aggro away, I mean I can never take Bevvs aggro away and I played with him once.

last words...

 

have a nice day ^^

First of all I am not playing FM. 

Well ok i do but only as a PvP alt. 

 

I am playing a melee dps class. 

 

But that's not even the topic. 

 

I repeat myself:

I'd Radeyz would have spect on threat skills and aggro the boss for like 5sec there is no way that he will loose it's aggro - not even to Bevv. 

Simply because of the reason that a KFM is indeed a tank class. period. 

 

So why didn't they do it like that and let Radeyz tank it? Simply because all current bosses can be tanked by pretty much every class and because they both know that Bevv can handle the aggro easily Radeyz choose to go for the pure dps build for a faster run. 

 

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Dlacik   
11 minutes ago, MushinKFM said:

@Dlacik dood.

 

you see a threat bracelet? you throw it away.

 

this was the worst shit you can have it was confirmed over all my RU server playtime, I've been playing a BM and there was not aggro skill on my 1 Block there. yea I outdpsd them 400+ atk guys with my poor 394atk Lab weapon and no they were good players I did lab4 with. tanking as KFM is just a defensive skill that is a must have for a meele class to survive all this, the long Q/E iFrames are also just made to give KFM an easier time being at meele range, Forcemaster also has 2 defensive skills (at least) to help themselves out if they are in danger.

 

I want you to find random KFMs (no people that you already know are good) with threat necklace and queue with them, I bet you have the best time of your life.

Why are you bringing up the threat bracelet? That bracelet is bulls**t because the threat increase it gives is too low and it isn`t worth the decrease of your dmg stats (crit/crit dmg).

 

If these defensive skills are such a must for melee why destroyers, assassins and blade dancers doesn`t have them when they are melee too?

 

FM has defensive skills but they have long CDs. They are as you said to help them if they are in danger. But if they want to tank boss they have no way to protect themselves from most hits like BM/KFM can.

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As a BM, I actually prefer to hold threat (And I have a great KFM in my clan who does the same). It makes it easier for me to proc cyclone (more chi regen), and keep the boss in one place to smack the hell out of it with fire flicker or lmb/rmb ani cancel. 

 

Not to mention the fact that my dps goes to hell if I use my HM lightning draw (pentagram) and blade call, and the boss move away (rip dps over 5 seconds). Also, keeping the boss in one spot makes it much easier for the ranged classes to dps them, resulting in faster clear times, less wipes from enrages.

 

It doesn't matter if an FM has 50 more AP than I do, if I can proc my cyclone, they won't be stealing aggro from me unless I screw up big time. They can go ham all they want. When I run pugs, I specifically spec my 2 in basic stance into multislash so I can proc cyclone off of an aoe, since people tend to rush and not let me start.

 

Edit: Also, I use a python bracelet (12ap, 459cdmg) for a nice damage boost (232% cdmg in draw stance), since I have 56% crit in draw stance.

Edited by OniOfTheSword

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Shiune   

^Thank you. 

 

As a BM like the guy above wrote already it is NECESSARY to tank because only like that a BM is able to deal a good amount of damage without being out of chi 24/7.

It is no the exact same for KFMs but nevertheless a KFM is still a main tank. period. 

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Also, this means tanks execute a task that is VERY helpful for EVERYONE in a party: keeping bosses in place rather than having everyone chasing after them. It's a HUGE help to everyone's DPS when you don't have to worry about bosses moving away nor targeting non-tanks for the most part. A tank that fails at that can prove disastrous when dealing with bosses with enrage timers.

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