Expection of range/melee cls

[Vesurian]

I love how @MushinKFM puts up a vid of "The best on EU". Which is all fine and good but most of us aren't The Best and if you didn't notice even though the FM in that vid had threat they also stayed in melee range. FM has more counter to damage than say, Warlock. They both also have better gear that most of us. Sorry I can't live on the game, I have a family to take care of and upgrading gear takes time and a little bit of luck both things I am short on.lol  While I consider myself a decent player I am by no means aiming to be the best of anything here...And putting up what these two did, as kick ass as it is, is in no way the situation faced when dealing with 6 man groups that can't communicate let alone anticipate their teammates moves. In premade groups where people know their roles this can be worked through, but for someone just logging in to knock out some dailies this is in no way the case. 

[Shadovvv]

On 4/11/2016 at 8:11 PM, Vesurian said:

Many of the ranged classes in BnS have a skill point or two that reduces or eliminates the threat from some of their skills whereas Kfm and destroyers have skill points to increase the threat to skills.

What? Destroyers are not meant to tank. Why does everyone assume the big hulking guy with a giant shield on a long cooldown is meant to tank?

 

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I've had one person (Warlock) pissed at me (an Assassin) vs Chief Barakan in Frostscale Basin simply because I was running stealth build (he doesn't have true sight), expecting me to tank as we duo'd him. Much wow. I was pretty much trying to hold aggro half the time to keep the guy alive, but since we weren't party mates I shouldn't have given a rat's arse about him the moment he pissed at me.

[spongemike]

Because as a range class (warlock, FM and summoner) we don't have as much HP, defensive CD, block or parry as a melee. Look at some of the skills you have as a KFM a lot of skills you have requires the mob to try to hit you, then you counters and do your combo. If the mobs aren't trying to hit you half of your skills/combos you won't be able to use them. . Same with BM. 

 

Beside as a range class we don't really "tank" more like we kite the mobs in circles. If we are kiting the mobs in circles we lose dps because staying alive is what we are trying to do.

 

See the difference KFM and BM needs mobs to hit them to activate their more powerful skills to do more damage VS range class kite mobs in circles and lose out dps.

[DannyMayCry]

2 minutes ago, spongemike said:

Because as a range class (warlock, FM and summoner) we don't have as much HP, defensive CD, block or parry as a melee. Look at some of the skills you have as a KFM a lot of skills you have requires the mob to try to hit you, then you counters and do your combo. If the mobs aren't trying to hit you half of your skills/combos you won't be able to use them. . Same with BM. 

 

Beside as a range class we don't really "tank" more like we kite the mobs in circles. If we are kiting the mobs in circles we lose dps because staying alive is what we are trying to do.

 

See the difference KFM and BM needs mobs to hit them to activate their more powerful skills to do more damage VS range class kite mobs in circles and lose out dps.

I don't kite in circles. I kite in squares.

:)

[MushinKFM]

@spongemike KFMs DPS rotation purely relys on Critting + ping + pfs + anicancel.

 

Blocking is just a defence mechanism bound to other dmg skills (which should be skilled into to keep up with FMs) to "come up for the loss of dps".

In the Wind rotation 2rF is no blocking skill inbuilt, blocking is only situational and mostly used when outdpsing teammates got you on the upper aggro list.

[ThePrelate]

Well the game doesn't have a 'holy trinity' but that still doesn't mean that some classes are 'tankier' than others. As a KFM I prefer much more to have boss on me, because that fuels my counters which in turn makes me more likely to use things such as Searing Palm and Hellfire Kick. Besides, running after the boss seriously messes up with the rotation and it is another thing that makes up for low DPS, in addition to FPS drops. I haven't been in any of the big dungeons yet on my FM but I can already tell that, while kiting does work, it is much much better to have boss stand in place in order to execute things like Meteor and Inferno. FMs have most powerful skills under cast time and in order to pull those off, they need to stand still, not to mention have the boss in one place. Now, aside from spamming RMB-LMB, there is little else they can do (Short Fuse and mainly, low damage Ice skills). As a Warlock, having boss in one place is basically of utmost importance. True, Warlock doesn't really have a hard time keeping the boss still but it happens as well, mainly because boss can resist Chains.

 

All in all, no there is no 'tank' in this game, but some classes are meant to deal with a boss directly and others deal with them from afar. But if you just go headlong into the fight, not doing the thing you were meant to do, it won't end well.

 

As far as I can see, classes have similarities with roles but needn't take on them completely. BM is a Tank/DPS, Destroyer is a DPS (afaik, he's not a tank), S(c)ummoner is a Ranged DPS/Healer with some tanking capabilities, much like the Hunter class in WoW, KFM is a DPS/Tank type, FM is a DPS type, Blade Dancer is a DPS and a Warlock is a DPS. Aside from that, S(c)ummoners, Warlocks and FMs provide support in form of buffs and heals. So the bottom point is, you shouldn't scold a FM for not tanking, you should do the tanking. But you should scold a FM for not applying buffs or delivering support properly. That's a game killer more often than not.

 

An anecdote from Naryu Labyrinth I had some days ago. A FM didn't know how to deal with the fight and applies Frost Sheath on us all to save himself. I was doing the bombing and ofc, it struck me during gaining stack for bomb. This apparently resets stacks and I had to gather them from the start. That's a huge DPS loss on our whole party and just because a FM misused his skill. 

[MushinKFM]

@ThePrelate I'dd never scold an FM for dying after tanking since outdpsing me even tho I upkeep my strong dps rota, I can tank it but I had 1 FM once flaming me that I should do all the work and that's what I see in this forum. I gladly take away the aggro but I never use aggro skills since most of the time my 15k rota (if no laggs) can upkeep it, I spec on fast block to not loose that much dps.

The FM died in the first 3 seconds and then blame me that I didn't do shit whilst actually doing all the work and that's what I want to avoid in my party, you understand? FMs are a blessing in a party cause of their well timed ice skill can save everybodys ass but I won't like to deal with one who is just wiping my group

[ThePrelate]

2 minutes ago, MushinKFM said:

@ThePrelate I'dd never scold an FM for dying after tanking since outdpsing me even tho I upkeep my strong dps rota, I can tank it but I had 1 FM once flaming me that I should do all the work and that's what I see in this forum. I gladly take away the aggro but I never use aggro skills since most of the time my 15k rota (if no laggs) can upkeep it, I spec on fast block to not loose that much dps.

The FM died in the first 3 seconds and then blame me that I didn't do shit whilst actually doing all the work and that's what I want to avoid in my party, you understand? FMs are a blessing in a party cause of their well timed ice skill can save everybodys ass but I won't like to deal with one who is just wiping my group

Just like I've said, if he flames you for not holding aggro, you flame him for not doing his support skills properly. Thank god, one thing this game has got right and that's the fact that every class contributes somehow to every fight.

 

Besides, people will often flame on other people, just to cover their own insecurities and rather do that than admit the mistake was their own. So don't take his ranting too much to heart. What the guy needs to do is learn how to manage his aggro, not just blindly spam his skills. Something every single ranged class needs to do in every single MMO, no exception.

 

Furthermore, I simply pointed out what every class IMO has in store for a given encounter. This was by no means an attack on you or the OP. The fact is that every class can deal with an enemy differently. But most of the times, a team needs to work in unison in order to achieve a goal (like killing a boss) and let's face the truth, no one is okay with things like boss running after a ranged DPS (who will in turn run even further away), leaving the MDPS in dust.

[Shiune]

I repeat myself:

 

BMs and KFMs are playing the tank roll in this game and if you don't want to believe in this and see yourself as a dps class you won't be taken to a single harder dungeon in the future where a tank is necessary and a FM or any other main dps class can't tank anymore. 

 

If you can deal with it ok - if not you should finally spec into aggro skills,  engage the boss first, attack it solo for 5sec to never loose the aggro again and tank the *cricket* boss until it is dead!! 

[PatchKid]

As a KFM, you kind of want to tank the boss.  It helps you in a lot of ways.  It keeps them stationary or where you want them to be, so you can get more hits in.  It allows you to use counter to get more iFrames.  It allows you to use your E/Q for more iFrames and other attack follow-ups.  It gives you more CC options to tag CC with other players because the boss is swinging at you procing your defensive abilities.

 

In the end, the KFM tanking is better for the KFM usually (and for the team).  Of course, it's not easier.  I guess if you want it to be easy, then you probably won't want to tank.