NERF ASSASSINS!

[867144_1452550351]

I'm blade master, and ive been playing arena for some time, i have over 800 games so far.  Im stuck at gold 1700-1800 so i kinda know how this game goes. Im not saying that im pro or anything but i play a lot and i love arena. So this is my problem : I win 1 out of 20 assassins after lvl50 patch.

Before last patch sin was, lets say easy to win. I had few difficult opponets, but in total i "could do something" agains them. BUT AFTER PATCH TROUBLES BEGINS!!! I simply cant do anything if they know combo, and every gold sin does becouse it is very easy!!! Those stuns and in beetween stealths, and also low cooldown on web, kills every hope of winning. U simply cant defend from those combos! Why u could ask?! Well out of those 100-0 skills, u cant TAB out from 50% of them. And if u somehow manage to tab out that behind back instant dash-daze-airborn thing (TROWING DAGGER + SNEAK ATTACK )that leads to beging of your trouble THE WEB! so they can go on with combo...

1st look at their stun cooldowns.

2nd web blocks any kind of your counter from ground, so it extra easy! u dont even have to watch the screen

3rd stealth speed and visibility of stealth persons is very low, 1 look away and they are gone forever!

4th  Close Shave skill that cant be escaped, and has too long animation, and gives u no time to do anything

5th instant Turning Leaf it somethins cant be blocked or dodged.

Im not gonna say stealth all the time because you, and you alone can *cricket* up things and let that happen. Im not talking about any block breakers coz it only can happen if u are using block all the time or some can dodge.

All these things, buggs or whatever u call them makes assassins invincible by blade master! i dont know what are other classes doing against them.

SRY FOR LONG POST! im so pissed, i was 1840 and then met 8 assassins in a row that dropped my rating to 1650!!! i lost to all of them...

[Piplupsuper1]

coming from a blade dancer i agree assassins and summoners need a serious nerf

[Toxlen]

Coming from an assassin that is gold, use more stunlocks/dazes?... I mean i'm not much of a run around stealth sin, I am mostly out of stealth than in it. I've been dominated BY BM & BDS from their stunlocks and dazes. I've seen Blade masters block my tab(switching spots) and sneak dagger. You just have to honestly have better timing with your blocks and be up against the wall to where we don't get behind you. This "Nerf" is just gonna go around to every single class. As soon as BM's become op, "NERF BMS"

 

[Purestic]

I'm sorry to say but players just got better over time. Assassins didn't change that much, you could pull of that combo before. The only difference is the blue buff, which is not close to being essential for this.

 

BM can absolutely win vs. Assassin when you drain their Tab and get them stunlocked. You can do a 100-0 combo, too. Same for BD, but BD has much higher chances of winning.

 

I mean, I'm sorry if you get PvE'd or face Sins that go for a timewin, but this playstyle you're talking about is absolutely legit. If you want to nerf it, you would need to nerf every other class for doing 100-0 combos, too.

[Princess Zelda]

The fact that Cassis (the best bm in NA) can't even get up as high as he used to after lvl 50 patch shows something made it a lot worse. I'm a Bm at over 2k elo, go check if you want, and I seriously get wrecked by sins so hard. There isn't even much I can do against them. BMs 100-0 relies on blade call, which they can easily lotus to escape. If they TAB out of it then they stealth and your follow up is useless. So use the knockback blade thing, same issue though, they can just wait it out...I've blocked place swap, I've blocked knife throw with orange ribbon, I SS their daze, and they still get me into a stun lock and just destroy. I have an easier time against any other class except summoner maybe.

[Moistz]

just because its a bad matchup doesnt mean u have to nerf the whole class bm properly gets rekt by half the classes because it's just doesnt have its full skill capabilities yet

[Sobereign]

the best part about this bitching is that on KR, BM is the #1 pvp class, while FM and Sin fight for the #2 spot.  Only reason why you don't feel that way yet is because the 2nd patch skill re-work hasn't released for BM yet

so it's either you're not trying hard enough, cause lol, ok.  you need to learn how to fight them.  there's a *cricket* good reason why they're a kingpin pvp class because they're good at it, but you have to be seriously good and understand combo mechanics, if you can't beat even a few, that means you need to study up on them instead of being a whiny little kid and saying they need a nerf lmfao

[Ra9eQuit]

Stop saying you would have an objective view on the game while playing only a Gold BM. I am Plat on KFM and Destro and I own every other class and they are all in Gold. You probably dont even know what the patch changed for Assassins and think they can now get easy diamond with just pressing one button. Honestly, I hate people like you, go play Assassin if it is so easy to win. Try it. Assassins arent OP. You just suck at BM.

-Ra9eQuit

[GalaxyNET]

Just nerf this invisible shit, so they cant be perma invisible.

[DragonAlex]

4 hours ago, Moistz said:

just because its a bad matchup doesnt mean u have to nerf the whole class bm properly gets rekt by half the classes because it's just doesnt have its full skill capabilities yet

Summoners still say BM's only are all noobs and already OP and L2P

1 hour ago, Ra9eQuit said:

Stop saying you would have an objective view on the game while playing only a Gold BM. I am Plat on KFM and Destro and I own every other class and they are all in Gold. You probably dont even know what the patch changed for Assassins and think they can now get easy diamond with just pressing one button. Honestly, I hate people like you, go play Assassin if it is so easy to win. Try it. Assassins arent OP. You just suck at BM.

-Ra9eQuit

I think there are enough people that hate you too after all your posts. You only want to *cricket* off others in forum!

[Shiune]

I srsly wonder if you even know how assassins got buffed? 

 

They are no much different in PvP as before (changes were mainly made in PvE). 

 

Yeah they got fighting spirit and once you get caught without escape and the sin having fighting spirit up your dead - simple. 

 

BUT no good sin is playing with fighting spirit in the higher ranks because we are missing our flower otherwise and that means that once WE used our escape and you get us in your combo we are dead too. 

 

Also yeah the fighting spirit buff made bad playing assassins much stronger because they can PvE the shit out of you know (PvE style means they stay in stealth 24/7 and RB+F you in stealth until you die without comboing). 

Those sins are actually very well counterable by BMs because a BM had a tool which easily gets an assassin out of stealth. 

 

But there is one thing I want to add:

Assassins got much stronger because of one reason: The HM woodblock buffed them really much and once you face someone with this woodblock (like me) you will know why. 

5 point hit strike which couldn't be countered before because it just went through woodblock?

Easily counterable with woodblock now because 2sec resist after counter PLUS I can even stun you for free now if you 5 point hit strike in my woodblock because you can't hit me but I can hit you in your animation - that's a thing you need to be aware now. 

[867144_1452550351]

I know everything, and ive done everyting to beat sins, but thre isnt much that can be done! The only way to win vs assassin is that he messes up a combo, or not to put a lotus, or to use tab for no reason, or to attack from stealth when im not stunned. But now, when they can just escape every my combo with 2 ESCAPES, and when i cant break their combo exept with tab, im surrendering xD

As Princess Zelda said, im having more win rate vs any other class, even summoners! then vs assassins.

[Windy]

Nerf LAG ,NCsoft please. Nerf it to the ground! :D

[Shiune]

32 minutes ago, 867144_1452550351 said:

I know everything, and ive done everyting to beat sins, but thre isnt much that can be done! The only way to win vs assassin is that he messes up a combo, or not to put a lotus, or to use tab for no reason, or to attack from stealth when im not stunned. But now, when they can just escape every my combo with 2 ESCAPES, and when i cant break their combo exept with tab, im surrendering xD

As Princess Zelda said, im having more win rate vs any other class, even summoners! then vs assassins.

If you'd know everything you would know how to counter assassins. 

I am damn serious now if I am saying the matchup against a good BM is one of the worst matchups for me. 

 

And other than NA we on EU have a lot of very great BMs which are all higher ranked as our top assassins. 

[Ra9eQuit]

3 hours ago, DragonAlex said:

I think there are enough people that hate you too after all your posts. You only want to *cricket* off others in forum!

Only those who flame and think they would know something about balance <3

-Ra9eQuit

[Purestic]

I don't really know why people are saying Sin is OP. They didn't really change, so why are people just starting to cry about them for no apparent reason? Every class has a counter. What do you want? KFM+BM get countered by Sin, Sin gets countered by Sum+FM. That's the way it is.

 

Also, if Sin would be so OP as some of the BM+KFM on this forum claim, why is no Sin in the top20? All bad players, eh? And when we're at it, all the high ranked BM+KFM are probably hacking because you're as good as them but aren't as high. Yup, that's probably it.

[Thalothean]

7 minutes ago, Purestic said:

Also, if Sin would be so OP as some of the BM+KFM on this forum claim, why is no Sin in the top20? All bad players, eh? And when we're at it, all the high ranked BM+KFM are probably hacking because you're as good as them but aren't as high. Yup, that's probably it.

Well now you are using the leaderboard to your advantage to make it seem like there are less sins in the top than there is..

 

In top 50 there are  11 assassins crawling their way upwards the last few days.  Thats a pretty good class representation in the top if you ask me.  Meanwhile there are 4 KFMs, 8 SMNs, 9 FMs, 9 Des, 6 BMs, 2 BDs and 1 Warlock.

 

Im not saying they are OP but they have gotten quite the bit stronger since lv 50 patch.

[Archess]

9 hours ago, Toxlen said:

Coming from an assassin that is gold, use more stunlocks/dazes?... I mean i'm not much of a run around stealth sin, I am mostly out of stealth than in it. I've been dominated BY BM & BDS from their stunlocks and dazes. I've seen Blade masters block my tab(switching spots) and sneak dagger. You just have to honestly have better timing with your blocks and be up against the wall to where we don't get behind you. This "Nerf" is just gonna go around to every single class. As soon as BM's become op, "NERF BMS"

 

I don't think he is talking about Sins that use Stealth on occasions, its the ones that are permanently in stealth, as a KFM that is still learning the ropes i can fight on an equal footing against most classes in my category and some fights can go both ways or end with 1 person on less then 1k health, but with Assasins it feels as if they are leagues beyond their actual rating and whatever i do is meaningless, if i do manage to win 1 round, they will just perma stealth the next one and play it safe, but when they catch you and i Tab or don't Tab my health will be gone by at least 50% while i have to catch them 2 times before i can really punish them.

 

And then you get 4-5 assasins in a row, witch seems to be the flavor of the month as i barely see KFM's, BM, FM, Summoners, Blade Dancers & Warlocks or one of the other classes, then one assasin, one other class, one assasin and so on. It's not a problem for classes with loads of AOE's to break their stealth but if your main ability is bunny hopping and flipping 180's to counter them apearing behind your back the entire match, it gets old fast, and don't tell me i can knockdown, Ice, Comet strike etc them out of stealth, because i know.

 

But being able to spam an AOE or have it on 30s cooldowns is a bigg diffrence.

 

But what it comes down to is Flavor of the Month and if your class is hard countered by that flavor, you are shit outa luck, unless you are really really good, if you are normal to average and they are normal to average, you are still *cricket*ed, because they will rek you, like summoners did month 1.

[Purestic]

10 minutes ago, Thalothean said:

Well now you are using the leaderboard to your advantage to make it seem like there are less sins in the top than there is..

 

In top 50 there are  11 assassins crawling their way upwards the last few days. Thats a pretty good class representation in the top if you ask me. Im not saying they are OP but they have gotten quite the bit stronger since lv 50 patch

Yeah, you may be right but I think that they would be much higher if they would be as OP as some people claim. I mean, Assassins are standing in a good spot right now no doubt, but OP? Not really.

 

So, what made Assassins stronger? Assassins got the E, another iFrame skill where you dash forward (or another Q with higher CD if you skill it like that) and Fighting Spirit which isn't really viable in higher ranks. The Shadow Slash HM skill is more easily obtainable, giving us more range to knockdown. That's basically it for now - there are only very few Sins with the Decoy HM Shiune mentioned above and I highly doubt the players are referring to it anyway. Having more skillpoints is another thing, but honestly.. with 45HM5 you already had everything you needed, it's just nice to have at this point.

 

@Archess

I agree on the PvE Sins. That's awful and I don't wish that on anybody. I hate to encounter PvE Sins in a mirror match myself. The matchmaking you mentioned is a bit funny though, I mainly encounter Summoners.. atleast one every 2-3 matches. Yesterday I had 5 out of 7 matches that I did.

 

[Avalyn]

A 1700-1800 BM needs to play at a much higher level than a plat KFM/destro in order to get where he is. When you go around with those classes talking about your rank as though it gives you some kind of credibility it is about as laughable as a plat/low diamond summoner telling you that you need to git gud.

 

Also there is a reason there are suddenly 4 assassins in the NA top 10 in this patch. 

Not only because of the HM woodblock, but you also see in the world championships that blue buff with assassin is actually viable. In fact one of the assassin vs assassin showcase matches one guy went for blue buff while the other went for double escape - guess what, the blue buff won and forced the double escape guy to use blue buff for the next match.

 

Let's ignore that for a second though. An assassin can 100-0, as they said, without giving you a chance to even use your tab. You played completely correctly and saved your tab on all the bait stuns, blocked and iframed all the stealth ambushes, and yet all you can do is helplessly get 100-0'ed while being unable to use the tab you worked so hard to save. 

 

If an assassin isn't a complete idiot they have 2 escapes and the ability to buy time with stealth and webs while waiting for the CD on escapes to come back. This means that, not only is your own tab absolutely meaningless to them, but there should be absolutely no reason for them to get caught by a BM in a combo. If an assassin gets caught in a BM combo that means that he got cocky and did not play properly, let himself get caught in CC too easily, and did not use his stealths/tabless combos correctly.

 

If an assassin chooses to use blue buff, guess what - not only are you unable to use your tab at all, but they can 100-0 in that time without ever having to bait anything.

[Archess]

6 minutes ago, Purestic said:

Yeah, you may be right but I think that they would be much higher if they would be as OP as some people claim. I mean, Assassins are standing in a good spot right now no doubt, but OP? Not really.

 

So, what made Assassins stronger? Assassins got the E, another iFrame skill where you dash forward (or another Q with higher CD if you skill it like that) and Fighting Spirit which isn't really viable in higher ranks. The Shadow Slash HM skill is more easily obtainable, giving us more range to knockdown. That's basically it for now - there are only very few Sins with the Decoy HM Shiune mentioned above and I highly doubt the players are referring to it anyway. Having more skillpoints is another thing, but honestly.. with 45HM5 you already had everything you needed, it's just nice to have at this point.

I guess Assasin is in the same boat as Destroyer and Summoner, its really easy to do good without really knowing what you are doing because once you stealth most people below 1800 have no idea to counter you or need to get "lucky" to catch them as they go higher they meet up against people that know what todo and fail their one and only pve strat.

 

When i played my Destro, first evening i got to 45 i played 12 or so games and Bam, Gold, i started my KFM and it took (this season 74 wins and 75 losses, mor then half those losses are assasins, i cannot win) to reach Gold with it, i switched to Destroyer and Won 9 matches in the first 15 seconds of the round and bam gold, no loss no nothing, just plain face-rollo over whatever i got in front of me.

 

I bet if i made an Assasin, it will be the exact same thing 9 Wins and bam gold.

[Purestic]

4 minutes ago, Avalyn said:

Not only because of the HM woodblock, but you also see in the world championships that blue buff with assassin is actually viable. In fact one of the assassin vs assassin showcase matches one guy went for blue buff while the other went for double escape - guess what, the blue buff won and forced the double escape guy to use blue buff for the next match.

Let's ignore that for a second though. An assassin can 100-0, as they said, without giving you a chance to even use your tab. You played completely correctly and saved your tab on all the bait stuns, blocked and iframed all the stealth ambushes, and yet all you can do is helplessly get 100-0'ed while being unable to use the tab you worked so hard to save.

Ok, one by one.

 

HM Woodblock: Absolutely, but there aren't many Sins that have it at this point. Should it matter? I don't know.

Bluebuff: Yes, in a mirrormatch. That's different. Sin vs. Sin is a match based on CD's and bursting down the other Sin is a pretty big deal. You don't benefit from it against every other class compared to Lotus, except maybe Sum+FM. You lose a very important CC breaker when doing so.

Tab: What? Of course you can use your Tab, but if the Sin outplays you it's pretty useless. That's not the games fault, though.

6 minutes ago, Archess said:

I guess Assasin is in the same boat as Destroyer and Summoner, its really easy to do good without really knowing what you are doing because once you stealth most people below 1800 have no idea to counter you or need to get "lucky" to catch them as they go higher they meet up against people that know what todo and fail their one and only pve strat.

 

When i played my Destro, first evening i got to 45 i played 12 or so games and Bam, Gold, i started my KFM and it took (this season 74 wins and 75 losses, mor then half those losses are assasins, i cannot win) to reach Gold with it, i switched to Destroyer and Won 9 matches in the first 15 seconds of the round and bam gold, no loss no nothing, just plain face-rollo over whatever i got in front of me.

 

I bet if i made an Assasin, it will be the exact same thing 9 Wins and bam gold.

If you PvE? Yep, that's easy gold. Easy plat? Probably not.

 

But if you speak about Daze Sins, that's not close to being as easy as Summoner. It's based on timing and similiar to BM/KFM, but in another way. Honestly, I'd recommend watching some 2.2k+ Sin play. You'd be surprised.

[Shadovvv]

10 hours ago, 867144_1452550351 said:

1st look at their stun cooldowns.

2nd web blocks any kind of your counter from ground, so it extra easy! u dont even have to watch the screen

3rd stealth speed and visibility of stealth persons is very low, 1 look away and they are gone forever!

4th  Close Shave skill that cant be escaped, and has too long animation, and gives u no time to do anything

5th instant Turning Leaf it somethins cant be blocked or dodged.

1. Majority of our stuns/dazes require us to be in stealth, and if you can't kick us out of stealth that is your fault. The only CC we have out of stealth is an air combo/knockdown with an 18 second cooldown and a knockdown with a 30 second cooldown.
2. We only have TWO knockdowns, so we can't throw out Webbing as often. Besides, you can escape web if you didn't carelessly blow your escapes.
3. You can still see our outline so we're not completely invisible, and stealth assassins become extremely predictable. Just put your back against the wall and react accordingly when you see us attack, that's literally all you have to do.
4. You're complaining about Close Shave, a short stun extender, but not the infinite amount of CCs that KFMs and Destroyers can perform?
5. Turning Leaf is blockable, and your damn throwing sword counters it.

[Archess]

12 minutes ago, Purestic said:

If you PvE? Yep, that's easy gold. Easy plat? Probably not.

But if you speak about Daze Sins, that's not close to being as easy as Summoner. It's based on timing and similiar to BM/KFM, but in another way. Honestly, I'd recommend watching some 2.2k+ Sin play. You'd be surprised.

I personally know i will never reach 2.2k on any class, i am really good in FPS games, Fighting games go back to the 90's Arcades Mortal Combat since i last played so i am already fighting against my keyboard sometimes and then there is still my opponent and cooldown management to fight against.

 

But my point is that i have 0 issue reaching gold on my Destroyer because they are so easy to play, my Blademaster forget it, my KFM took considerable practice and i keep getting better, at first Forcemaster/Summoner were an issue, i found counters against those and most games could go either way, but assasins is like fighting 2 weight classes above my own and you encounter one every other match, so if you are not a Hard Counter against assasins right now or you know really well what you are doing, you get completely rekted, each time you encounter one.

 

(this are all examples of how i need to play in my own elo rating) if i would go up against any 2k+ player they would rek me so bad, i won't be able to sit for a month, i am talking about my own weight class, i doubt all of them are just passing through to 2k+ and i am that speedbump in the road...

-Forcemaster tactics, stay in their face...apply pressure

-Summoner, stay in their face, focus rat first

-Blade Master, just stun them through their block

-Warlock, iFrame hard hitters, stunlock

-Blade Dancer, iframe around each other till one *cricket*s up, then kill

-Destro, they are all bots, so kill em

-KFM, iFrame around each other till one *cricket*s up, then kill em

 

Assasin, Bunnyhop? Counter 180? Lucky AOE hit? Do not Tab, Do Tab? Die...

 

and if you do manage to kill the cocky sonofabish when they overeach, they will just play it safe round 2 or 3

[amorent]

Just hold "f" after they have thrown dagger at you, now you now how to get out of dazes, they will probably not tech chase after your roll, so punish them