Class discrimination - can we please not do this?

[Praipus]

Here is a FM/Summoner Duo 4man yeti

 

 

and here is a KFM / FM duo of 4man yeti.

 

[VirtuoZzzo]

2 hours ago, Praipus said:

Here is a FM/Summoner Duo 4man yeti

 

 

and here is a KFM / FM duo of 4man yeti.

 

Gib fm+sin. I wanna see 3 mins kill from top dps class in bns. :)

[Shiune]

4 hours ago, Hongmoon said:

It's literally the first thing that shows up when you google "yeti 4 man duo". It's uploaded by a playstv bot.

Ah yeah found it - i wrote avalanche den instead of yeti. 

Pretty impressive I have to say. Not for duoing it but because their gear is pretty average/bad. 

7 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Gib fm+sin. I wanna see 3 mins kill from top dps class in bns. :)

Nah won't work. 

 

Either the sin has to tank and can't deal any dmg or the FM has to tank and the sin can't deal any dmg because he need to follow the boss 24/7 because of the FM  kiting it.  

I do however think that I could duo it too with a good KFM/BM.  

 

 

I uploaded a dps test on a dummy yesterday btw (wanted to upload another yeti run with a tank at first but didn't had the time):

 

 

 

This will give you a rough idea of the dps output by a shadow build sin.

Still need more crit rate though to cast dark strike more often.

[Praipus]

That's on a target this isn't moving, it isn't attacking, you aren't dodging it, you also don't have to chase it down because it's jumping every few seconds. I'm not saying your DPS isn't the highest, or that it isn't high, but comparing numbers on a target that isnt fighting back, and that you don't have to dodge, is different than comparing numbers on a  target that you're chasing, kiting, dodging and generally running after. FM Doesn't have to chase, doesn't have to dodge either really, they can just sit and cast.

[Shiune]

Like i said this only will give you a rough idea because yeah you have to dodge some things on bosses. 

 

With a KFM/BM tanking yeti however you can nearly dish out the same damage because all you have to dodge is the jump on the tank because it hits in melee range. 

Also yeti usually doesn't move around if it gets tanked except for the walk back (which will also lead to a jump if the tank isn't following him). 

Also in the heat/cold phases you have more dps downtime than a FM that's true. 

 

In awakened necropolis + lair you can nearly dps freely though because the bosses are pretty idle and are not moving around (except king in lair sometimes). 

[VirtuoZzzo]

This IS dps. Let us only get to this patch.

 

 

 

[Shiune]

^Dat reference. 

 

Coming up with most likely a full maxed legendary geared summoner (on HM16) and claims this is da real dps machine lel. 

 

 

[VirtuoZzzo]

7 minutes ago, Shiune said:

^Dat reference. 

 

Coming up with most likely a full maxed legendary geared summoner (on HM16) and claims this is da real dps machine lel. 

 

 

We're not far away from it. Legendary weapon only procs encreased damage, some random lightenings and chi regen. Nothing to do with class mechanics and skills. Currently we got all HM skills we needed for dps. The only thing we lack is crit rate. That guy has like 65%+. All this can already be done in our patch.

It looks like this. 45lvl tho.

 

 

[SkoobyDoo]

2 hours ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

We're not far away from it. Legendary weapon only procs encreased damage, some random lightenings and chi regen. Nothing to do with class mechanics and skills. Currently we got all HM skills we needed for dps. The only thing we lack is crit rate. That guy has like 65%+. All this can already be done in our patch.

It looks like this. 45lvl tho.

 

 

this is very bad example for summoner dps.this guy have 10 crit stakcs so he can spam infinity bees.in dungeons you dont have 100% crit so...

[SkoobyDoo]

Just now, VirtuoZzzo said:

But we have hm legendary now. Free bees on CC'ed enemy + free bees on crit. It is enough to spam then inbetween 2 doom'n'blooms.

or you can go sunflower  that cost no focus when LMB crit and you do crit all the time so  its literally infinity sunflower spam.

[VirtuoZzzo]

1 minute ago, SkoobyDoo said:

in dungeons you dont have 100% crit so...

But we have hm legendary now. Free bees on CC'ed enemy + free bees on crit. It is enough to spam then inbetween 2 doom'n'blooms.

[VirtuoZzzo]

4 minutes ago, SkoobyDoo said:

or you can go sunflower  that cost no focus when LMB crit and you do crit all the time so  its literally infinity sunflower spam.

Yes, indeed. And this spam of 2k+8k lmb+rmb seems much more dpsing than that sin on video. Adding here some bleed, poison and nettles will give us pretty nice damage.

[SkoobyDoo]

6 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Yes, indeed. And this spam of 2k+8k lmb+rmb seems much more dpsing than that sin on video.

it is for sure.also when you get 5 stacks overflow ( and that happen all the time if you have LMB hm skill) you are shoting sunflowers like machine gun.summoner on current patch is top DPS thats for sure,simple because he have unlock all of his dps HM skills.however i dont know what will happen in future patchs because summoner wont get any new dmg HM skills and the extra points you get from HM levels dont really help.on other hand some other classes  still cant unlock all hm dps rotation skills .but there is also no point to say " when this korean patch come here i will be OP" because untill this happen they make release new class changing patch in korea and as we see NA/EU copy latest class changes.so anything can happen in future.

[VirtuoZzzo]

14 minutes ago, SkoobyDoo said:

wont get any new dmg HM skills

The only one left is seed shroud for 300 daily secret tech books. It gives free 3 seconds of overflow on successeful use. Cool for both pvp and pve.

[Shiune]

The good old theorycrafters. 

 

How about YOU making a video about your dps as a summoner right now? 

I showed my dps on a dummy but you most likely sit on 400 AP 3k crit and pick up other guys dps as its your own? 

 

Want me to show you an assassin dps video of a Korean player? 

There you go:

 

37 minutes ago, SkoobyDoo said:

 

 

This sin even plays with a completely outdated build (sins dps got buffed by a whole lot in the meantime) and also he plays without (the old) fighting spirit even he unlocked it. 

 

Here another video of the same guy playing in with the lightning build but with the old fighting spirit:

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, SkoobyDoo said:

this is very bad example for summoner dps.this guy have 10 crit stakcs so he can spam infinity bees.in dungeons you dont have 100% crit so...

Exactly this - this video shows shit. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

2 minutes ago, Shiune said:

How about YOU making a video about your dps as a summoner right now? 

I showed my dps on a dummy but you most likely sit on 400 AP 3k crit and pick up other guys dps as its your own? 

I will make one for you after I get home from work. 

Here's my summoner

http://gearscore.tribunal-frostgipfel.de/cgi-bin/bns.pl?token=a8fj3kne89udf34kn&format=html&mode=profile&c=EU_Egoraptor

[Shiune]

Fine. 

 

Anyway since my 2 vids were outdated af let's add a up to date dps video with the newest skills (just like that Korean summoner) :

 

 

 

[VirtuoZzzo]

37 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Fine. 

 

Anyway since my 2 vids were outdated af let's add a up to date dps video with the newest skills (just like that Korean summoner) :

 

 

 

Do you have any video without macros and other 3rd party software?

[Shiune]

8 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Do you have any video without macros and other 3rd party software?

Pls even i know he is using a macro mouse you can do it nearly as fast as on the video with the correct ping. 

 

It is just starts to hurt your hand if you do it for a longer period of time. 

 

But you wouldn't know - anicanceling is a foreign word for summoners. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

12 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Pls even i know he is using a macro mouse you can do it nearly as fast as on the video with the correct ping. 

 

It is just starts to hurt your hand if you do it for a longer period of time. 

 

But you wouldn't know - anicanceling is a foreign word for summoners. 

Does it hurt or not, you admit that it requires 

- Godly ping

- Macros

- Target standing still doing nothing

- Cricketloads of HM legendary skills or "new skills" from patches we don't currently have

 

Too much effort for almost nothing. Violating game rules and hoping to get your class fixed every patch to deal damage equal or even less compared to a dumb 2-button-clicker smn.

 

And no. We actually anicancel rmb with lmb, same as each 1-2-f skill can be anicanceled.

[Shiune]

I'm am perfectly fine that it takes effort and I repeat myself: you don't need macros for fast anicancel execution. 

 

Though, yes you need a decent ping and skill to play assassin other than those  no brain, skill spaming, facerolling summoners - and still I am perfectly fine with it... I'm even happy that I get some challenge. 

 

[Tsunakai]

Take this example. Prior to BnS, I played SWTOR. While parsing(dps meter application) on a training dummy on your ship, on each class, the class that would get the highest result, every time, without exception, was the Jedi Sentinel/Sith Marauder. But this class never, on any occasion ever, was the highest dps in the meter in proper hard mode raiding content, due to the nature of mechanics, and them being melee. Always it was Merc/Commando or Sage/Sorc blowing away the dps charts, because both these classes were ranged, and alot of the mechanics that held back melee dps uptime didn't apply to them.

 

Sins, no one cares what numbers you drop on a perfectly still, dead target which will never fight back or offer any form of resistance. It means NOTHING if you can't do that in real content. FM and Summoner can, so take the back seat already.

[Shiune]

Are people to lazy to read or just being ignorant by their stupidity? 

 

I said you get a rough idea by the numbers of dps. 

I also said I wanted to record a tanked yeti run so you'll actually see that even melee dps classes can kill it with nearly no downtime (lair and necropolis can be done with absolutely no downtime - at least no downtime which ranged classes also have). 

Bosses have mechanics and every class has dps downtimes (yes even your holy FMs and summoners) because mechanics have to be dodged/iframed or being done by another way. 

Yeti stays completely calm like a dummy except for 1 jump or the moonwalk (or the jump in the middle) - so your dps as a melee have more downtime than as a range but who cares about 2-3 seconds which need to be dodged once in a while? 

 

Instances are getting more difficult with more mechanics for ranged classes, tanks will be essential and FMs can't tank every shit as they are doing now and still every class can contribute their own party support (be it dps, buffs, protection or w/e). 

While the 2 range classes have a slight advantage (or a big one in soulstone plains) now you can easily point out the players which facerolled the dungeons later and the skilled players will shine out there while the facerollers (most summoners right now) will shed salty tears.

[Aint Rabid]

Lets put this in another way.  A melee may be up close to the top in dps (damage per second) but when it comes to target uptime, they are lower than a ranged class.  So in terms of total damage output, melee wont be close.  Again, bosses dont die from just dps, they die from total damage taken.  Also, Shiune, where do you get your method of tracking dps?  As far as I know there are no in game dps meters or approved parsers for that matter.  I can throw up my damage on a target and say my class is tops in dps as well w/o tangible evidence.

[Shiune]

You can't track down the exact dps without a dps meter of course. 

 

But from videos, playing different classes and know their skills, calculating your own damage, watching the aggro of the bosses without threat skills/gear, getting input from the Asian versions and several other things you can make a list which is more or less correct. 

 

It is theorycrafting to a certain point yes but you can make a good assumption about how the dps chart is looking like. 

 

But those assumptions can be left alone anyway as soon as we get the dps meter (if we get it ofc - which I really hope). 

 

Total damage output btw is the definition dps - there is a formula to calculate the dps

I mean a dps meter is calculating the dps after the bossfight and not during the fight. 

 

It is calculating the dps with this input for example:

 

Total damage: 1m

Boss HP: 5m

Boss fight time: 3 minutes

Total dmg in %: 20%

 

DPS = 5,55k (because 5,55k x 3mins =1m).