Class discrimination - can we please not do this?

[Zedonia]

8 hours ago, Sobereign said:

sin has highest dps in game, and for ppl who dont believe this, think about their dmg 

5 poison stacks on dark strike spam 

Ok, maybe you are right. Wanna give some hard numbers? I have no idea of sin skills so writing your skill names won't help anyone.

 

Maybe sin has the highest potential damage, it doesn't mean you will do more dmg than everyone else because YOU ARE NOT PERFECT and so no one else is. And of course, if I have a melee class in my group trash talking I will make sure that he can chase the boss through the whole room while I tank him with my fm laughing about his "high" damage.

 

Don't take it too seriusly but don't think you know everything. That you played all classes doesn't mean you can play them perfectly so your argument is useless. Personally I never had another class except kfm or fm in my group who could hold aggro against my fm and even if sin does more damage, he won't ever hold aggro because of his *cricket* stealth shit.

[Shiune]

So it's a good thing to have aggro nowadays as a dps class? 

Most FMs nowadays are like:

"Lets hit the boss first with full burst and get aggro and then complain about why they have aggro 24/7 hurr durr". 

Btw i'm not negating the fact that FMs are on top of the dps chart together with assassins. 

I'm playing a FM myself as alt - though I mostly play PvP with it because I don't have time to to gear 2 chars. 

 

Boy this game will be funny once we get really hard dungeons where a tank is required to clear it. 

Then all those full yolo, first hitting FMs will cry tears because they can't kite bosses around like they used to. 

 

Again:

Assassins deal a shitton of damage (most probably more than a FM)  but a requirement is that it get tanked well and not follow some kiting FM who hits the boss first and gets aggro because they think they are tanks. 

 

 

 

Anyway like i said i'm gonna record a yeti run and upload it somewhere in the forum to show you melee hating guys how much dps a melee class can do. 

 

[VirtuoZzzo]

37 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

Don't take it too seriusly but don't think you know everything. That you played all classes doesn't mean you can play them perfectly so your argument is useless. Personally I never had another class except kfm or fm in my group who could hold aggro against my fm and even if sin does more damage, he won't ever hold aggro because of his *cricket* stealth shit.

Holding agro doesn't show dps. BD and kfm can hold agro having 30 attack less and being a low-dps-classes overall.

6 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Anyway like i said i'm gonna record a yeti run and upload it somewhere in the forum to show you melee hating guys how much dps a melee class can do. 

Just record any of mushin tower floor 6 bosses from wheel. They have decent amount of hp (650k ish) and pretty easy mechanic wise. And lets see who kills them faster. Sin, fm or smn.

Yeti will not show the real dps. You have to dodge hard when the ranged classes dont. Imo f6 bosses are the easiest to show off your dps.

[Shiune]

No point in recording vids of soloing bosses with no true sight. 

There is 0 chance a FM, summoner or any other class can compete. 

And that's no even an offence to those classes it's just about how sins can abuse permastealth to take down bosses with ease. 

 

And believe me I don't have to dodge anything in yeti if it gets tanked well (maybe even a cat taunt will do it). 

 

It's also not about getting aggro but about showing the damage numbers, combos and how to play right as a melee dps class because ppl don't seem to know how to - instead they just see how they are dying out of nowhere without dealing any dmg. 

 

[Zel]

2 hours ago, Zedonia said:

Ok, maybe you are right. Wanna give some hard numbers? I have no idea of sin skills so writing your skill names won't help anyone.

 

Maybe sin has the highest potential damage, it doesn't mean you will do more dmg than everyone else because YOU ARE NOT PERFECT and so no one else is. And of course, if I have a melee class in my group trash talking I will make sure that he can chase the boss through the whole room while I tank him with my fm laughing about his "high" damage.

 

Don't take it too seriusly but don't think you know everything. That you played all classes doesn't mean you can play them perfectly so your argument is useless. Personally I never had another class except kfm or fm in my group who could hold aggro against my fm and even if sin does more damage, he won't ever hold aggro because of his *cricket* stealth shit.

Sin in BnS is in the same boat as Sin in Aion was, they have the highest potential damage ceiling but are limited below it by several factors (Ping being the largest one the class was designed for sub 30ms Korean internet), some in their control and outside of it. What's going to end up happening, and it already is, is that the class will eventually be lauded as the highest DPS class in the game BUT only a few people will ever actually be able to reach those numbers. At which point something weird will happen, Assassin won't be a good class, X player will be a good Assassin. Assassin isn't top DPS, X player (On Assassin) is Top DPS. Eventually the personal achievements of the player on the Assassin class will overshadow the class itself because the larger majority of people playing said class can't reach the right numbers. It's literally Aion all over again where 4-5 Sins on the entire server can reach that "Best DPS in game" spot and the rest fall so far below the peak they're not even worth taking to a party.

 

The whole party requirements and class discrimination thing is starting, even without a real DPS meter available. What do you think is going to happen once they add it in?

[Sobereign]

8 hours ago, Zedonia said:

Ok, maybe you are right. Wanna give some hard numbers? I have no idea of sin skills so writing your skill names won't help anyone.

 

Maybe sin has the highest potential damage, it doesn't mean you will do more dmg than everyone else because YOU ARE NOT PERFECT and so no one else is. And of course, if I have a melee class in my group trash talking I will make sure that he can chase the boss through the whole room while I tank him with my fm laughing about his "high" damage.

 

Don't take it too seriusly but don't think you know everything. That you played all classes doesn't mean you can play them perfectly so your argument is useless. Personally I never had another class except kfm or fm in my group who could hold aggro against my fm and even if sin does more damage, he won't ever hold aggro because of his *cricket* stealth shit.

i put a video but it was removed (lol), but can we just talk about the lol "perfect" argument.  Not once did I bring that up in my argument, so dude, you bringing that shit up is irrelevant.  We melee's shouldn't have to chase a damn boss if an FM could understand not to take aggro from the actual UNMOVING tanks in the game (i.e. KFM or BM), because once end-game hits, FMs will be crying that they are tanking.  Hell every PUG i go into FMs *cricket* bout having aggro.  And, ya you're right I [don't] know everything, but I do my research and I've played my classes and every other for very long times so I'm confident in my knowledge enough to give you numbers or proof.  I never said I played them perfectly, I said I played them, so I wouldn't start an argument if I didn't know what I was talking about

 

So please, if you're gonna make a rebuttal, dont make a nonsensical one.

[Jaite]

Right now BM/kfm/bd/sin offer mediocre dps and almost no utility in a 4 man scenario. 

 

Therefore when you're aiming for min. Time you would take FM/smn/WL and 1 filler depending on the dungeon. Another FM or smn and your party is probably going to melt the instance.

 

BM for AoE

Sin/kfm for blue buff

Destroyer...I dunno never seen one before.

Bd ...well just useless

 

 

FM and smn can tank most bosses with no problem, cat taunt to assist FM tanks. 

[Zel]

21 minutes ago, Jaite said:

Right now BM/kfm/bd/sin offer mediocre dps and almost no utility in a 4 man scenario. 

 

Therefore when you're aiming for min. Time you would take FM/smn/WL and 1 filler depending on the dungeon. Another FM or smn and your party is probably going to melt the instance.

 

BM for AoE

Sin/kfm for blue buff

Destroyer...I dunno never seen one before.

Bd ...well just useless

 

 

FM and smn can tank most bosses with no problem, cat taunt to assist FM tanks. 

Destroyer is basically a less useful BD since currently no boss really NEEDS chain CC or interrupts and their DPS isn't as good. Although to be honest all the current content is so *cricket* easy you could make a party with 4 KFM's and do it.

[Shiune]

Video is done and i'm uploading it on youtube right now,

 

Wasn't my best run and unfortunately i had aggro most of the time so i couldn't dish as much dmg out as i wanted to but you'll get the idea.

 

[lnvisibleOne]

32 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Video is done and i'm uploading it on youtube right now,

 

Wasn't my best run and unfortunately i had aggro most of the time so i couldn't dish as much dmg out as i wanted to but you'll get the idea.

 

I'd like to see this. 

[Shiune]

Yeah so here is my 4-man Yeti Assassin pov gameplay:

 

The vid quality actually is much better as here on youtube o.O

Maybe it will get better later after youtube edited it but dunno...

 

 

 

 

Like i said unfortunately we didn't play with a tank and i had the aggro pretty often, therefore i couldn't do as much dps as i wanted to but this is how an Assassin plays PvE with the dark build. 

 

Edit:

Ah yeah the quality is good now

[Terimac]

Y so little love for destros? 

 

More than decent single/aoe dmg

Durable

Nice CC and utilities

 

Coolest resuce move ever, grabs your dying body while leaping to a safe distance and puts an iron fortress around your recovering body for maximum effort.

 

[lnvisibleOne]

1 hour ago, Shiune said:

Yeah so here is my 4-man Yeti Assassin pov gameplay:

 

The vid quality actually is much better as here on youtube o.O

Maybe it will get better later after youtube edited it but dunno...

 

 

 

 

Like i said unfortunately we didn't play with a tank and i had the aggro pretty often, therefore i couldn't do as much dps as i wanted to but this is how an Assassin plays PvE with the dark build. 

 

Edit:

Ah yeah the quality is good now

I mean look, you're a pretty good sin but that really doesn't convince me that sin is top dps no class can ever hope to match it etc;. Melee by nature has alot of downtime so compared to a comparable strength range will result in it being less dps. I don't mind any classes personally just don't see that sin is the undisputed top from that video. 

[Netson]

39 minutes ago, lnvisibleOne said:

I mean look, you're a pretty good sin but that really doesn't convince me that sin is top dps no class can ever hope to match it etc;. Melee by nature has alot of downtime so compared to a comparable strength range will result in it being less dps. I don't mind any classes personally just don't see that sin is the undisputed top from that video. 

 

2 hours ago, Shiune said:

Yeah so here is my 4-man Yeti Assassin pov gameplay:

 

The vid quality actually is much better as here on youtube o.O

Maybe it will get better later after youtube edited it but dunno...

 

 

 

 

Like i said unfortunately we didn't play with a tank and i had the aggro pretty often, therefore i couldn't do as much dps as i wanted to but this is how an Assassin plays PvE with the dark build. 

 

Edit:

Ah yeah the quality is good now

well change to the dark build with lightning pierce+chi regen lightning rod it takes a while to master it but u can increase ur dps ALOT it will consume tons of chi and is not really easy to master with 80ms~(60ms- on good days here) idk but i guess for lower pings like the designed 30ms would be easier

by doing this build u gain way more dps once mastered even if u get downtime due to chi recovery u can just unstealth use smoke bomb for chi regen stealth again and keep spaming it u will actually notice a huge diference in ani cancel since it speeds up alot the raw rmb+f full poison+bleed doesnt have the full dps potential of a sin sure its alot but with that build max u can get is like second ranked best dps but with the build i mention even without the books u can outdps FMs

basicly u can do this check urself easy go to 7f in mushin tower or 5f(bosses with timer) and master perma stealth light pierce+rod build then compare the timers between dark build and dark/light build u should be able to notice at least a 25% dif in dps where with light pierce will be way faster

[SkoobyDoo]

it seems nowdays there is even class racism.

[SkoobyDoo]

5 hours ago, lnvisibleOne said:

I mean look, you're a pretty good sin but that really doesn't convince me that sin is top dps no class can ever hope to match it etc;. Melee by nature has alot of downtime so compared to a comparable strength range will result in it being less dps. I don't mind any classes personally just don't see that sin is the undisputed top from that video. 

i agree for the AP they had  this kill was kinda slow and the assasin was force to spam some healing tonics that heal him for like 50% of total hp so he dont die,top of that we see sin have downtime on yeti alot.i mean if they replace the dancer or sin with warlock they was about to kill the yeti way before 2min mark on timer.

[Shiune]

7 hours ago, lnvisibleOne said:

I mean look, you're a pretty good sin but that really doesn't convince me that sin is top dps no class can ever hope to match it etc;. Melee by nature has alot of downtime so compared to a comparable strength range will result in it being less dps. I don't mind any classes personally just don't see that sin is the undisputed top from that video. 

You see I never claimed that sin in its current state is the undisputed number 1 in terms of dps. 

There are however together with FM the number 1 and I made this vid just because there are to many ppl claiming summoners and whatnot are above sins in the dps charts when they are clearly not. 

Also there are still 2 HM skills (RB+V) missing which makes the dps of SINs go skyrocket. 

Also it was like i said very difficult to dps properly because having aggro with the dark build is a huge disadvantage because you can't evade tank the boss as with the lightning build.

If i find a good KFM/BM who can keep aggro I will upload another video which is purely for dps purposes - this one is inderd a bit a mess (even though I did quit good with dpsing+tanking in my opinion).

6 hours ago, Netson said:

 

well change to the dark build with lightning pierce+chi regen lightning rod it takes a while to master it but u can increase ur dps ALOT it will consume tons of chi and is not really easy to master with 80ms~(60ms- on good days here) idk but i guess for lower pings like the designed 30ms would be easier

by doing this build u gain way more dps once mastered even if u get downtime due to chi recovery u can just unstealth use smoke bomb for chi regen stealth again and keep spaming it u will actually notice a huge diference in ani cancel since it speeds up alot the raw rmb+f full poison+bleed doesnt have the full dps potential of a sin sure its alot but with that build max u can get is like second ranked best dps but with the build i mention even without the books u can outdps FMs

basicly u can do this check urself easy go to 7f in mushin tower or 5f(bosses with timer) and master perma stealth light pierce+rod build then compare the timers between dark build and dark/light build u should be able to notice at least a 25% dif in dps where with light pierce will be way faster

No. Why do you come up with mushin etc. when it's clear that you will deal more dmg with the lighting build on bosses which have no true sight and you can spam the shit out of him without him noticing. 

Dark build is dps wise simply superior to the lighting build in group fights. period.

 

It's for sure another case for soloing purposes and bosses with no true sight but do you really think I don't know how to play with the lighting build and tested out which build is better for dpsing? 

The only thing which hindered me making much more dmg is the fact that I had aggro pretty often. 

2 hours ago, SkoobyDoo said:

i agree for the AP they had  this kill was kinda slow and the assasin was force to spam some healing tonics that heal him for like 50% of total hp so he dont die,top of that we see sin have downtime on yeti alot.i mean if they replace the dancer or sin with warlock they was about to kill the yeti way before 2min mark on timer.

I used 1 pot because I fcked up with the iframe yeah. 

Was kinda weird because his jump took ages lol. 

And the downtime comes because off the aggro - a well tanked boss won't give me any downtime. 

Also I killed yeti often with around 3min left with skipping the ice circle phases etc. but couldn't do this with this random group because of no tank etc. 

 

The run wasn't the fastest for sure , nor did it show how much dps I could deal if the boss gets tanked properly. 

But it shows that melee dps classes (sin) can do very good if they know how to play. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

9 hours ago, Shiune said:

Yeah so here is my 4-man Yeti Assassin pov gameplay:

 

The vid quality actually is much better as here on youtube o.O

Maybe it will get better later after youtube edited it but dunno...

 

 

 

 

Like i said unfortunately we didn't play with a tank and i had the aggro pretty often, therefore i couldn't do as much dps as i wanted to but this is how an Assassin plays PvE with the dark build. 

 

Edit:

Ah yeah the quality is good now

I don't see any dps here. You do 3-4 hits 6k each and run like 5 seconds to catch up with jumping boss. Then you do 3 more hits and run again.

While summoner is constantly spamming flower whole fight 8-11k each.

Your video only showed us how bad sin is in terms of dpsing jumping yeti and how inconsistant his dps is. Your hits are as slow as summoner's sunflower but deal 1.5 times lower damage. You're melee class and have to dodge every dam hit stopping your dps. Not even close to what summoner or fm can do as ranged.

[VirtuoZzzo]

Just now, Shiune said:

That's why the summoner had aggro the whole time right? 

Either you are trolling or you are dumb af. 

Agro doesn't come from dps.

[Shiune]

2 hours ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

I don't see any dps here. You do 3-4 hits 6k each and run like 5 seconds to catch up with jumping boss. Then you do 3 more hits and run again.

While summoner is constantly spamming flower whole fight 8-11k each.

Your video only showed us how bad sin is in terms of dpsing jumping yeti and how inconsistant his dps is. Your hits are as slow as summoner's sunflower but deal 1.5 times lower damage. You're melee class and have to dodge every dam hit stopping your dps. Not even close to what summoner or fm can do as ranged.

That's why the summoner had aggro the whole time right? 

 

Little fun fact: even the BD had more aggro than the summoner. 

 

I repeat myself: A summoner can be happy if he is placed on the 3rd place in the dps charts because he most likely doesn't even belong there. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

2 hours ago, Shiune said:

That's why the summoner had aggro the whole time right?

Little fun fact: even the BD had more aggro than the summoner. 

Ofc. Cuz agro comes from threat generation of skill but not from dps. BD and KFM were never top dps classes in any region of BnS but they tank whole raids of 24. Their skills just generate more agro and they are supposed to be tanking classes.

[Shiune]

13 minutes ago, Shiune said:

 

Did you just say a BD is a tank and has aggro skills? 

 

God thank you four prooving me that you have absolutely 0 knowledge about the game. 

 

This is hilarious seriously xD

 

 

 

 

Edit: dunno why I quoted myself there

[VirtuoZzzo]

13 minutes ago, Shiune said:

I repeat myself: A summoner can be happy if he is placed on the 3rd place in the dps charts because he most likely doesn't even belong there. 

As everyone can see in your video - your dps sucks hard.

3 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Did you just say a BD is a tank and has aggro skills? 

 

God thank you four prooving me that you have absolutely 0 knowledge about the game. 

 

This is hilarious seriously xD

 

 

 

 

Edit: dunno why I quoted myself there

The one without a rabbit behind the sword on class pic. I checked and it is bm. My mistake, sorry.

[Wikishi]

Actually aggro comes from dps if there are no threat affecting gear or skills and it is pretty obvious that Shiune was the top dps in the vid.

[Shiune]

As everyone could see in the video my dps was even with aggro still higher than the dps of the FM and summoner.  

 

Illuminati confirmed.