Sherlock MacDumpster

Obligatory Gameguard Thread

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Lurkios   

In case anyone at NC was wondering:

 

-GameGuard is still causing a ton of problems with my, and clearly others as well, systems.

-There are still bots everywhere.

-There are still hackers everywhere.

 

 

After days (about 4 seconds of) of careful research of and planning, I've come to the following conclusion. Removing GameGuard would make the situation look more like:

 

-There are still bots everywhere.

-There are still hackers everywhere.

 

While not perfect, it is significantly better than what we have now.

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Some Guy   

I'm sure I'm wasting my time in posting this, but this will be my last post on these forums either way, as the forum mods are insane, and clearly don't want humans posting on their forums anyhow. Which seems to be a trend for this game, as they don't seem to want humans playing it either.

 

 

 

IF this was a new game, or a new situation for them with this game, NCSoft's stance that GameGuard (GG) is an important tool to rid the botter/spammer/hacker menace, and they need time to get things worked out would make sense. Here's the thing though, it's not a new game, or a new situation for them with this game by a long shot. Even in South Korea, where it's a pay to play game, and one of the bigger ones over there, they evidently have been plagued by bots for years now, and evidently, have never managed to crack down on it. (Note the dates of the below videos on the matter, both relating to the South Korean servers.)

(2013/07/23)

 

 

(2016/01/31)

 

What makes things even more frustrating is that as others have noted, as soon as they turned GG back on, we certainly seem to have been greeted with more botters/spammers/hackers than we had while it was disabled. Think about that for a moment to let it sink in. Not only is GG not stopping all of that, and is hurting overall game performance for many, it by all accounts is actually being relied upon by some botters/spammers/hackers to let them do what they do. I'm guessing part of their run function is a countermeasure to GG, so when GG is not there, the program fails, or some such thing. This whole turning it on, and off thing has presented us as regular players with a unique perspective, as normally that never happens, so instead of just suspecting that it's not stopping them, and hurting overall game performance, we were able to see that it's not stopping them, and hurting overall game performance for many as an actual matter of fact.

 

Something client side like GG might be able to stop all this mess, to at least some degree, IF it was being updated significantly, and frequently enough that those that engage in botting/spamming/hacking would have to work out ways around it so often, that at least some wouldn't be able to keep up. Although, as updates seem to roll out so slowly, it's just not a big deal for them to keep up with GG updates. When a new version rolls out for at least some other games, you'd see a distinct drop in botters for a short time (days, or less), then they'd all come back with a vengeance, with a period of perhaps months before a new update seems to be released. The fact this game is using an older version of GG than what is currently available isn't helping matters either. Although as a newer version would likely roll out on the South Korean servers first, we would likely see little, to no impact over here, as the same cheats used there, are are no doubt being used here.

 

IF NCSoft was actually serious about stopping all this botting/spamming/hacking, we'd see that concern in South Korea first, as that is the initial/primary release location, and B&S has been one of the bigger MMOs there for a while now. Although, since they don't seem to care in the slightest, even over there, I'd say were're pretty much doomed over here. I'm sure many would be willing to put up with a performance hit IF GG was actually stopping botting/spamming/hacking, although it's clearly not doing that at all, and never will as other releases of this game, and other games using it, or similar programs have shown us. The most we can hope for is that they'll disable GG for good, so the game at least plays better for those willing to put up with all the other nonsense (for at least a while), but that's about it.

Edited by Some Guy
improved wording

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Well well. Gameguard's still around. Bots are still around the last few times I've played in game and went far enough around to notice. Barely anyone, if anyone from my friends list is on. And this game has far too many other problems without Gameguard adding on to it.

 

A shame really. This game had potential. But of course NCSoft had to screw it up again, like always, it seems.

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18 hours ago, Nitrak said:

Yes because shelling out two grand is easily achievable? I checked your post history to make sure this was an isolated case of you being insensitive, and to my horror this is really a trend. How do you not see that Gameguard is a horrible program? I looked up "disable gameguard" partially as a joke and partially because it's lethal to my FPS, and this is what I got.

 

Excuse me? Why the hell is a security program installing hidden files into the Windows32 folder? And even if I were to theoretically uninstall BnS, why would I still need to go into the registry to delete the last vestiges of Gameguard? 

I'm being an ass now because I think the issues are largely exaggerated and I have said so multiple times. The performance of this game is far from perfect but I do not believe Gameguard has anything to do with it. One day my fps can be as smooth as possible, the next there are noticeable slow downs but in both situations Gameguard is on. I honestly think the problem is the game itself but since the drops are random everyone is blaming gg.

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forJAT   
59 minutes ago, GreenDestiny said:

I'm being an ass now because I think the issues are largely exaggerated and I have said so multiple times. The performance of this game is far from perfect but I do not believe Gameguard has anything to do with it. One day my fps can be as smooth as possible, the next there are noticeable slow downs but in both situations Gameguard is on. I honestly think the problem is the game itself but since the drops are random everyone is blaming gg.

Well you undoubtedly are are having other issues as I can ASSURE you that GG is the reason I can no longer play this game and what ever the problem is has to do with the Version they are using because the game that I currently play has GG on a more recent Rev. 

 

I was playing PERFECT before GG was activated and then reactivated. I get stutter steps on one computer and on another computer GG won't let the game launch. I have another friend that GG keeps freezing ang GG errors to the point she Quit.  I have 3 other friends that GG does not affect one bit. But those 3 people are now playing ANOTHER game where they can play with friends. 


I personally want to THANK NCSoft's version of GAMEFAIL because I would not be playing the other game. So NCSoft you can have that $300+ dollars while I can get it back I used it up until I got the 3 month sub. It's an expensive Lesson learned. 

 

and @GreenDestiny because you are lucky enough to have no issues with GG just be happy with that.  Don't be "THAT GUY" and try to White Knight up for what ever kudo points or troll points you think your earning. As I can ASSURE YOU that your "lag" is a lot different than the constant FREEZES caused my GG pinging  memory for changes.  Your comparing your Hang nail to our stress fractures.  

 

I actually had to SS this in ANOTHER GAME: 

 

mDexCu1.png

 

 

EDIT and before you go off and say your just talking out the side of your arse or your some free player (not that free players don't deserve the same level of expectation as a paying player) 

NOTE:  the spaces above and below on the sliding bare for NCCoin bought those are transactions not shown on the screen. And NO those are not $5.00 transactions

 

NOTE: the SUBSCRIPTION: NONE on my 3 month subscription that is NO LONGER ACTIVE. I was paying monthly prior to my subscription. 

 

also take it for what it is worth, I can charge back all of the charges. If I were an arse I would. But I got what I paid for up until my subscription.   When I went and talked to my bank I found out that I can't just contest part of the charges that I would have to contest them ALL and that I would have the funds back in my account within 48 hours. 

 

34fgZPM.png

Edited by forJAT
added

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cokaine   

I've been checking these forums occasionaly to see if ncsoft has done anything about GG and no one has been complaining so before i redownload the game i'd like to know if the game is still unplayable because of GG.

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1 hour ago, cokaine said:

I've been checking these forums occasionaly to see if ncsoft has done anything about GG and no one has been complaining so before i redownload the game i'd like to know if the game is still unplayable because of GG.

No, NCsoft hasn't done anything about it. It's still there. 

 

There are still people complaining about it here and there but most people grow tired of it and give up. So they either already quit the game or still hanging onto it with the 'hope' of NCsoft will listen.

 

The day that they will fix it is when credit card heroes stop swiping.

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cokaine   
4 minutes ago, Farrangis said:

No, NCsoft hasn't done anything about it. It's still there. 

 

There are still people complaining about it here and there but most people grow tired of it and give up. So they either already quit the game or still hanging onto it with the 'hope' of NCsoft will listen.

 

The day that they will fix it is when credit card heroes stop swiping.

damn it =\

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as normal player i get dced several times every day cuz gameguard is like a boss  ( like a bot ) what does game guard do i ask ? letting 25 lvl summoners to rule the arena with invisible hack ? or maybe group of bots walking around ? TY for your useless protection NC that is making more problems than solving -_- 

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Speras   

Just a friendly reminder that mods are still ignoring this thread and that many of us STILL aren't able to log into this game.

 

I just want to log in to this game, I don't like seeing 4049 on my PC. I beg you, this is unfair. I miss my legion and my friends in-game.

 

Can you please respond? I know you're out there, mods. Anyone, someone...

Please communicate with your player-base. 

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Tyranei   

At this point, I'm going to have to just give up.  NCSoft has shown, by action (or lack there-of), that Gameguard is here to stay.  Even if they were to deactivate it, I can't rely on the hopes that they won't just re-activate it in the future.  I have been unable to play BnS since they re-activated Gameguard due to the frustrating half second screen locks that occur every three seconds.  I tried to just "deal with it" but after a week it was too painful.  As a competitive and hard-core player, I feel like I'm so far behind (hundreds of gold that I have not gained from dailies/arena) that it no longer matters, especially with the rate of content releases.  I've cancelled my subscription and don't intend to look back.

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I recently left BNS and went back to Tera because of GG this games is just not enjoyable and i played Tera for 3 years but left to play BNS and now all of this happens... On the brightside if you guys want to try Tera out there are no bots or hackers and they are launching a new class and a lot of new exciting content next month so those of you who are leaving til this all blows over and NCWest gets their shit together are welcome to play it or any other game really because nothing is worth this much hassle.

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On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 1:39 PM, GreenDestiny said:

Ncsoft stated themselves that they got all kinds of information to use against cheaters from the latest Gameguard update. Are you calling them liars? It would make zero sense for them to leave it on if it isn't helping.

Are they liars?  Possibly, barring any actual evidence to the contrary indicating they have used such supposed data to actually shut down botters/hackers/spammers.  But since they refuse (understandably) to publish any specifics, any such evidence is not available to us mere mortals (players).  However, lying or not, I think it is likely they are overstating matters (either deliberately, or because they are using bad data).

 

GameGuard is notorious for detecting simple macroing use with programs such as the driver systems for certain gaming keyboards/mice/gamepads/etc. as well as for basic macro programs like Auto Hotkey.  While such things can be used in ways that could be regarded as botting or cheating, they can also be used for simply alleviating the tedium of repetitive tasks without being used in a way to gain an advantage.  They also are commonly used by people with physical disabilities to simply enable them to play such games *at all*.

 

So if GG is reporting to NCSoft about such detections and terminations, then that would inflate the number of detections that NCSoft can claim without being truly effective against actual botting and spamming behavior.  But that doesn't make it any more effective against the core issue.

 

As to it making sense or not making sense, that's what this entire thread is about.  It simply does not make sense, and yet they continue to use it.

 

The most likely reason for this is that the actual game developers (note: the game is NOT developed by NCSoft, but is merely published by NCSoft) are requiring use of GG as a contractual obligation of some sort.  So the issue is not merely convincing NCSoft that using GG doesn't make sense, but also convincing Team Bloodlust that it doesn't make sense.  If they are using the number of detections and/or number of disconnections reported by GG as a measure of its effectiveness, then it will be difficult to convince them it isn't working and they will think it makes sense to continue its use.  What they ought to pay attention to, instead, is the number of player reports of spamming and botting that they receive.  If that number is significantly less when GG is active than when it is not, then that would indicate it may be at least useful, but just how useful would depend on the percentile difference.

 

For example, if they currently, with GG active, receive 1000 such reports per day, and then they turn GG off and start receiving 2000+ reports per day, then that would indicate GG is doing at least a fair job.  But if the number of reports per day with GG off is 1000- then that would indicate that GG does nothing useful at all, or worse, introduces a vulnerability that is exploited.

 

But if they make no such comparison, then all they really have to go on is the reports they receive from GG itself, which may not be accurate, and which fail to take into account those botters/spammers/hackers that are not detected by GG.

 

But since you have utterly failed to be convinced by any of the sound arguments already presented by others in this thread, I imagine you are nothing but a troll, and I will not feed you further.

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Blinky   

I'm glad I ran into this thread. Didn't know about this "gameguard" fiasco. I Practically have a brand new computer set up with a clean copy of windows 7 64bit

 

i7. 5960X

gtx 980 TI hybrid

16 gb ddr4 ram

and BnS installed on a Samsung 850 pro

 

I couldn't figure out the horrendous fps problem and why my loading screen times were so slow that party members are 15 secs ahead after I was done. 

 

I like this game a lot. If anyone has any temporary suggestions, please lmk!

 

Thanks

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On 5/2/2016 at 5:37 PM, Blinky said:

I'm glad I ran into this thread. Didn't know about this "gameguard" fiasco. I Practically have a brand new computer set up with a clean copy of windows 7 64bit

 

i7. 5960X

gtx 980 TI hybrid

16 gb ddr4 ram

and BnS installed on a Samsung 850 pro

 

I couldn't figure out the horrendous fps problem and why my loading screen times were so slow that party members are 15 secs ahead after I was done. 

 

I like this game a lot. If anyone has any temporary suggestions, please lmk!

 

Thanks

Why would you run Win 7 on a new computer? It is terribly insecure and if you want DirectX 12 with your fancy new card you need Win 10. That being said you might want to return your 980 TI if possible the new Nvidia cards are coming out later this month and have crazy fast performance even compared to the 970 and 980 series.

Edited by GreenDestiny

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