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shakti

Warning: Exploiting Auction System in Cross Server Dungeons

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shakti   

There is a player on the cross-server dungeons who is changing copper bids to gold while everyone is trying to rush to get to the real price. This is especially a problem for players with low vision who can't tell silver from gold. The exploiters add some copper change, so it also looks like silver because there is just 2 places and makes the bid in what would be a plausible range for silver. In this case the bid went from a few coppers to 22 gold and copper change: players would have expected the end bid to fall between 20 and 40 silver, so they would continue to bid fast at 22.

 

Several players have reported this, but I have a feeling Player Support will say it's unfortunate but legal.

 

I spent over a week trying to save up to buy moonstones so I can upgrade my items enough to try the new purple dungeons. I need around 35 moonstones at this points, and I still don't have enough money after a week of farming all day. I finally got the Merry Potters recipe in Brightstone, and my first attempt to get just ONE moonwater tear cost a third of the gold I had left.

 

I'm already unable to complete the main Yellow quest line because of a bug in my qing gong jumping skill. This kind of setback, which prevents me from going on to the high level purple dungeons as well as making me afraid of the auction system, is extremely disheartening.

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Zuzu   

This is not exploiting the system.

It's exploiting your lack of attention.

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Rajak   

Seem like you got 'bid-snipped' (aka scammed) and I don't think there is anything NC can do on the matter. So there are only two things you can do: 

1st. Always double check the price you are bidding for

2nd. If you do get snipped, leave pt and your bid will get canceled. However you will lose your chance to bid on other items.

As for this happening on endgame heroic dungeons, tbh I haven't had something like this happen to me in a very long time while running those.

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shakti   

Can you leave the party after you've already received the item? We were moving through the other items before anyone noticed. I don't think many people are aware of that option since they noted the scam, but they didn't advise me to leave.

 

Also, would someone have gotten the item for a few coppers (last bid) if I left? I can see people working together to scam that way.

 

As mentioned above, this also exploits people with low vision, and "paying attention" like that would seriously slow down auctions for everyone. Do you really want to stand around forever for each bid while people study the last bid made in the copper stage? This advice would make the game suck for everybody.

Edited by shakti

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Rajak   
6 minutes ago, shakti said:

Can you leave the party after you've already received the item? We were moving through the other items before anyone noticed. I don't think many people are aware of that option since they noted the scam, but they didn't advise me to leave.

 

Also, would someone have gotten the item for a few coppers (last bid) if I left? I can see people working together to scam that way.

 

As mentioned above, this also exploits people with low vision, and "paying attention" like that would seriously slow down auctions for everyone. Do you really want to stand around forever for each bid while people study the last bid made in the copper stage? This advice would make the game suck for everybody.

You got scammed and didn't even realise it till later? You seriously need to double check before bidding. Also to answer your question, leaving the pt after the bidding on that item is over will not cancel the bid. It will only get canceled while the bid is ongoing. 

 

And yeah, I advise you to actually pay attention when bidding on something, you are using your precious gold after all.

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Eimi   

I'm fairly certain that if there were any such game breaking bugs with windwalking, they'd be common knowledge by now and discussed at great length.

If you'd go into more detail about the problem i'm sure people could offer solutions to your perceived skill bug ~

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shakti   

I was paying attention - I just thought the bid was silver. The bid was also moving very fast because it was a lot of high level players trying to rush through copper. It's very easy to say "you should have paid more attention" if it doesn't happen to you.

 

From what you say, I couldn't have left the party because last bid was mine and the bid was over before anyone noticed.

 

There's a line between expectation of player attention/skill and where a situation is so easily exploitable that it makes it easy to cheat people and makes them afraid of that activity, reducing the general playability of the game.

11 minutes ago, Eimi said:

I'm fairly certain that if there were any such game breaking bugs with windwalking, they'd be common knowledge by now and discussed at great length.

If you'd go into more detail about the problem i'm sure people could offer solutions to your perceived skill bug ~

 

@Eimi - I lay out the problem in great detail in the Bug section if you want to check it out. Customer support asked me to post it here: I hope it wasn't so other players will blame me for it as this thread. >.<

 

 

 

 

I've never met any other player with this problem. I'm wondering if it's related to my keyboard layout. It's not "user error" as if I don't know how to run and hit space bar twice.

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51 minutes ago, shakti said:

There is a player on the cross-server dungeons who is changing copper bids to gold while everyone is trying to rush to get to the real price

I'm trying to feel empathy for you on this, but it's hard since you should always pay attention to what you bid, also I would love for this person to be in runs with me, as I am trying to earn gold, and I let people bid war if they want something. Also I personally have taken a bid from copper to 6 silver for just this reason. 6 silver insures everyone gets at least 1 silver. Never did that to gold, but then I would only do it to things I know sell on the AH for 10+ silver. 

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Zuzu   
5 minutes ago, shakti said:

I was paying attention - I just thought the bid was silver.

First sentence alone already shows you weren't paying attention even though you claim you were.

The people who are saying "you should have paid attention more" are the ones who obviously pay attention.

Lesson here is simple: Don't rush while bidding. Look at the bid before placing your next bid.

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shakti   

 

I understand the practice you're talking about: its common from people bid up a bit on the best items so the person who gets it pays a fair price and the others are rewarded for participating.

 

However going from copper to gold is about trying to exploit fast bids and trying to fool people who think they are bidding silver.

 

Figuring out a special spot where the boss won't fight back might be possible within game mechanics, but developers would generally see that as an exploit because it makes the game unfair: and it ruins the balance if only a few players know how to do it. Exploiting the auction system does the same thing.

 

@Zuzu - as I've repeatedly said, people with low vision (lack of contrast and distortions) - which includes me - can't tell gold from silver. I would have to notice the change to gold in the numeric-place slots instead of the amount - and it's too hard for me to do that during a fast bid.

Edited by shakti

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9 minutes ago, shakti said:

people with low vision (lack of contrast and distortions) - which includes me - can't tell gold from silver.

Then don't look at the total bid, only watch what your next bid is going to be. Honestly I never look at the current bid, only at what my bid will be, I was playing this game for 1 month before I even noticed the "Current Bid". 

 

1.jpg

 

It's hard to confuse silver and gold if you ignore the "Current Bid" and only watch "your bid"

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shakti   

That's what I meant when I said "numeric place holders" before. It's difficult for me to look at multiple things at the same time, and I'm keeping an eye on the yellow line to see if anyone has bid higher than me during a fast bid.

 

Some people can take in a lot of different things hyper-fast, but I'm not one of them.

 

Also, some people think that getting away with tricking other players *is* the fun of the game. This style of play means "winning" is reducing the population of the server to a steadily smaller circle of exploiters trying to trick each other -- the victims don't stick around and continue to offer "fun" to other people when they aren't having any fun themselves. The GMs should certainly have an interest in promoting fair game play, even if people who benefit from certain exploits continue to justify them.

Edited by shakti

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KaLnoX   

There is no speed to it. Keep an eye on what they are asking you to bid. 

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11 minutes ago, shakti said:

That's what I meant when I said "numeric place holders" before. It's difficult for me to look at multiple things at the same time, and I'm keeping an eye on the yellow line to see if anyone has bid higher than me during a fast bid.

 

Some people can take in a lot of different things hyper-fast, but I'm not one of them.

All I'm seeing is a lot of excuses why you don't do something, you're acting like you are the only one with bad eyes. I think it might be obvious that I too have issues, as I didn't even notice the current bid for a month. Granted, my issues come from needing reading glasses as I'm 45, I have better than normal color vision, I'm just old. 

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Yamyatos   

You realise that you can manually enter a bid to "get to the real price" insteal of spamming y in hope of not getting scammed, right?

 

I agree that the system is not quite perfect and also that people should be able to revoke their last bid to make sure this doesnt happen.. but in your case - sorry to say this - it's just a lack of attention and i dont really feel bad for you.. the only thing i'd understand is that you can get really unlucky if you press y in nearly the same moment as the person who put in a high gold bid, since then it's not your fault. But if the auction isnt spammed (and it shouldnt) you would be insanely unlucky to get into this specific situation since the risk for the scammer would be higher than the reward and he will more likely lose gold than win anything by doing so. Still it is possible and that's why i'd add the option to revoke the last bid.

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shakti   
5 minutes ago, KaLnoX said:

There is no speed to it. Keep an eye on what they are asking you to bid. 

Yet I bet you don't hesitate to tell others to hurry up when you're trying to get through your dailies. The reason copper bids go fast is *everyone* is trying to get on with their dailies. There is a lot of "if it hasn't happened to me yet it must be the victim's fault" in this thread.

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4 minutes ago, shakti said:

There is a lot of "if it hasn't happened to me yet it must be the victim's fault" in this thread.

No, if the OP was a victim sure, I know for a fact I have overbid because i just hit Y without paying attention, I'm not blaming others for my lack of observation. The OP is blaming everything and everyone without owing up to the fact that they were not paying attention. 

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shakti   
1 minute ago, gothicshark said:

All I'm seeing is a lot of excuses why you don't do something, you're acting like you are the only one with bad eyes. I think it might be obvious that I too have issues, as I didn't even notice the current bid for a month. Granted, my issues come from needing reading glasses as I'm 45, I have better than normal color vision, I'm just old. 

I posted in the first place because I believe this is a form of scamming. The replies are from people who believe that this is normal game play, some of whom may be practicing this exploit themselves. I reply to attempts to shift the blame on to me because saying this is my fault is the same as saying it wasn't a scam. This was a scam that exploits normal behavior during an auction.

 

As someone who also has vision problems, I'm not sure why you would rather let the scammer off than verify the difficulties. I already said I don't regard your practice of bidding up an item as the same thing.

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KaLnoX   
Just now, shakti said:

Yet I bet you don't hesitate to tell others to hurry up when you're trying to get through your dailies. The reason copper bids go fast is *everyone* is trying to get on with their dailies. There is a lot of "if it hasn't happened to me yet it must be the victim's fault" in this thread.

You're getting extremely defensive and letting people's honest(and sensible) advice goad you. And all for what? Why so serious? 

I speak for myself when I say I dont rush anyone to do anything in game nor do I ask anyone to take it easy. I go at the pace the party goes or anyone in my party wants to go. I don't care. I've realized the western version of this game is already saturated with some of the most cancerous and sensitive personalities one can fathom.  I'm damned most times if I come across as polite or as prick regardless. 

I agree with you on the last part, and again its because of the cancerous persons that make it their duty to shut people down, whether facts are presented or not doesn't matter to them. If they say the earth is flat, then it is so...until they realize on their own they were talking filth from the get go.

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Just now, shakti said:

I posted in the first place because I believe this is a form of scamming. The replies are from people who believe that this is normal game play, some of whom may be practicing this exploit themselves. I reply to attempts to shift the blame on to me because saying this is my fault is the same as saying it wasn't a scam. This was a scam that exploits normal behavior during an auction.

 

As someone who also has vision problems, I'm not sure why you would rather let the scammer off than verify the difficulties. I already said I don't regard your practice of bidding up an item as the same thing.

Sorry didn't notice I was responding to the OP, ... as I said  I do have some vision issues as I am older. 

 

Thing is you need to just pay attention to the Bids, it's not an exploit, honestly I don't even bother bidding unless it's something worth bidding on. And surprisingly nothing except outfits are actually worth bidding on. NCSoft isn't going to change this system, nor should they. I do agree that they should consider doing  ___(gold) ___(silver) ___(Copper) but not to prevent the issues cause by people not paying attention. I have given you ways to avoid the issue in the future, and I also suggest not bidding on trash items, as you get plenty in the chests. Now at the end of endgame runs, there are some items dropped by the final bosses you should bid on, but once again pay attention to the bid. Also wait until the last few seconds to make a bid, and manually enter what your bid is. 

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5 minutes ago, shakti said:

As someone who also has vision problems, I'm not sure why you would rather let the scammer off than verify the difficulties.

So wait, because you can't take 10 seconds to properly read the bid you call it scamming?

Also, what kind of argument is poor eyesight? You either can or cannot read the bid. And if you only can after looking at it for 10 seconds, then take the time. You have all the bid timer worth of time to read the bid, ponder wether you want to raise it and then follow up on that.

Seriously... the nerve of people. And here I thought I had issues that on my QWERTZ Keyboard Y is accept bid as well as an skill, and you can't rebind accept bid so in combat you could accidently bid.

 

Take your time and bid only after checking all the things and being sure you want to bid the amount that is said. If you can't do that - don't bid. Easy as that. There is no scam involving this. It is purely the bidders fault if he bids too high.

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shakti   
1 minute ago, KaLnoX said:

You're getting extremely defensive and letting people's honest(and sensible) advice goad you. And all for what? Why so serious? 

I speak for myself when I say I dont rush anyone to do anything in game nor do I ask anyone to take it easy. I go at the pace the party goes or anyone in my party wants to go. I don't care. I've realized the western version of this game is already saturated with some of the most cancerous and sensitive personalities one can fathom.  I'm damned most times if I come across as polite or as prick regardless. 

I agree with you on the last part, and again its because of the cancerous persons that make it their duty to shut people down, whether facts are presented or not doesn't matter to them. If they say the earth is flat, then it is so...until they realize on their own they were talking filth from the get go.

I thought "leave the party" was good advice and so is try to look at the numerical place holders rather than the bid, but most of this "advice" is just letting the scammer off the hook.

 

I was hoping people would appreciate a warning that this scam is going on. Moreover, if the scammer is well-known, people will keep leaving parties and forcing them to re-recruit and reform.

5 minutes ago, gothicshark said:

Sorry didn't notice I was responding to the OP, ... as I said  I do have some vision issues as I am older. 

 

Thing is you need to just pay attention to the Bids, it's not an exploit, honestly I don't even bother bidding unless it's something worth bidding on. And surprisingly nothing except outfits are actually worth bidding on. NCSoft isn't going to change this system, nor should they. I do agree that they should consider doing  ___(gold) ___(silver) ___(Copper) but not to prevent the issues cause by people not paying attention. I have given you ways to avoid the issue in the future, and I also suggest not bidding on trash items, as you get plenty in the chests. Now at the end of endgame runs, there are some items dropped by the final bosses you should bid on, but once again pay attention to the bid. Also wait until the last few seconds to make a bid, and manually enter what your bid is. 

And I thank you and everyone else for the advice that was well-meant. However, the assertion I just wasn't paying attention isn't advice: that's assigning blame and it's projecting a situation you remember (times you weren't paying attention) on to me.

 

You also remark that you don't think this was a scam, so anything I say to maintain this was a scam  and not to defer to you will come across as an excuse to you.

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5 minutes ago, shakti said:

I was hoping people would appreciate a warning that this scam is going on. Moreover, if the scammer is well-known, people will keep leaving parties and forcing them to re-recruit and reform.

Honestly, as I have learned the hard way that this can happen, I don't bid on trash items, although most of the time I'll watch the bid war, as I get paid by just waiting for the auctions to end. I look forward to the scammer  you describe, because of their  Chutzpah I would make bank if they did that. 

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Zuzu   
8 minutes ago, shakti said:

I was hoping people would appreciate a warning that this scam is going on. Moreover, if the scammer is well-known, people will keep leaving parties and forcing them to re-recruit and reform.

It's not that we do not appreciate a warning but in this situation, the warning is pointless because it's basically the user's fault, not the system.

It's the lack of paying attention/being patient enough to wait and see the current bid before going on with bidding or giving up.

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