Too all those LAME high AP dungeon requests ...

[MerlinBG]

19 hours ago, Saksoy said:

Always said 400ap was enough for yeti 6 man 

Says who?

I am making it since 370 or so. Failed first time - only because I was too spoiled by the lack of mechanics in BnS instances, so that I thought it would be ok. Then watched a vid what's the mechanics all about and mirracle - allways cleared since than, unless people start to die like flies. Dps is not an issue there, but not to stupidly die by mechanics.

18 hours ago, Riata said:

I don't see anything wrong with it.  It's their own group.  They can put any requirements that they want.  They do not stop you from going to dungeon on your own group or random pug.  If you don't like it, you can start your own group with lower requirements.

^ THAT!
I also prefer to go with people around my AP, and if there is such group - I often join them. No surprise.
However, the most stupid thing is high AP to join random group and start complaining of other's AP being low... pity.

[RedactedNinja]

Its THEIR RUN, THEIR RULES. 

 

Stop complaining and make your own. Then you can complain on your runs.

 

#EndOfDiscussion

[Enhance]

Just now, fruitie said:

Back in my day, gear was the reward not the requirement.

Why not both? Similar to how you need to pass basic exams to get into a learning course. I thought knowledge was the reward, not the requirement!

[fruitie]

Back in my day, gear was the reward not the requirement.

[Reaper00]

Just now, fruitie said:

Back in my day, gear was the reward not the requirement.

Back in my day experienced well geared players used to help lower geared less experienced players to learn dungeons thereby increasing the pool of available players that they could run dungeons with in the future. Good times.... 

[Saksoy]

26 minutes ago, Reaper00 said:

Back in my day experienced well geared players used to help lower geared less experienced players to learn dungeons thereby increasing the pool of available players that they could run dungeons with in the future. Good times.... 

Forget about that these days, today its all me me me.

[Enhance]

4 minutes ago, Saksoy said:

Forget about that these days, today its all me me me.

It's always been me me me since ancient times. Your view has simply expanded to see the big picture. :^)

[Yohana]

My BM has 478 AP im done Yet 4 man in guild party 490 , 520, 512 AP players Yet have easy mechanics just know how to play is batter than big atack power, 400 AP fine to run Yet 6 man.

 

 

 I see dead people in future Forgotten Tomb lvl50, Blast Furnace of Hell  lol

[Tracmar]

500 AP for 4man ? You got to be kidding me right ? 

In cross server NA , as of 6 hours ago, Yeti 4 man was 520 lol 

[Atheyana]

The problem to me isn't what people want for the runs. It is more the illusion that you need a certain AP value to run said instance when it isn't even required. If enough people keep spamming "Looking for players with 600 AP only for X instance" then people are going to assume that you need 600 AP to run said instance. Now if NCSoft puts minimum required AP and recommended AP values for the instances on each instance then it wouldn't seem like a big deal. However, For now people should state that they only want a specific AP value for their party and it isn't the required AP for said instance. These people who are too obsessed about AP are sending the wrong message to the rest of the community.

 

In essence it is one thing to want a certain geared player in your party but another to mislead the server into thinking instances and other tasks require a higher gear value than it really does.

[Yohana]

5 minutes ago, Tracmar said:

500 AP for 4man ? You got to be kidding me right ? 

In cross server NA , as of 6 hours ago, Yeti 4 man was 520 lol 

Yes 500 AP for Yet 4 man just 1 wipe i play 80 - 120 ms

[Enhance]

3 minutes ago, Atheyana said:

The problem to me isn't what people want for the runs. It is more the illusion that you need a certain AP value to run said instance when it isn't even required. If enough people keep spamming "Looking for players with 600 AP only for X instance" then people are going to assume that you need 600 AP to run said instance. Now if NCSoft puts minimum required AP and recommended AP values for the instances on each instance then it wouldn't seem like a big deal. However, For now people should state that they only want a specific AP value for their party and it isn't the required AP for said instance. These people who are too obsessed about AP are sending the wrong message to the rest of the community.

 

In essence it is one thing to want a certain geared player in your party but another to mislead the server into thinking instances and other tasks require a higher gear value than it really does.

:D yep, exactly as I said!

20 hours ago, Enhance said:

A solution could be putting "Recommended AP" on a dungeon which is decently low and reasonable, i.e. 300 for BSH, 350 for Lab etc. That way people will see that they qualify and have enough to complete the dungeon while the "bsh 600+++ AP" is the whatever easymode party people ask for, not minimum requirements.

I had some clanmates who didn't want to join naryu or 6-man heroic parties because they thought their 400 AP true profane/siren was not enough.

[Azuhariet]

delet

[Enhance]

1 minute ago, Azuhariet said:

Ok let me enlighten all you close-minded idiots that don't understand the negative effects of these outrageous 'AP requirements'.

 

Say you have 500 AP, know how to play your class, and know the dungeon. Great! You're one of the few players in this game that fall into this category. You create a Yeti 4 Man room asking for 500 AP+ because you want the run to be 'fast'. Your logic behind this is that, "Even people who aren't skilled can do damage with this much AP!". Unskilled people will SEE that and more importantly JOIN your party, simply because they meet the AP requirement. As a result, they have no reason to learn the dungeon, just reach a certain amount of AP and then get carried. From this, newer players who do not have 500 AP will not be thinking (or even high AP players), "Oh I want to learn how to clear this dungeon!" they will be thinking "Oh I want to get geared enough so I can clear this dungeon!". See the problem?

 

tl;dr: Ridiculously high AP requirements cause players to seek gear to carry them rather than skill. This leads to an overall sharp decrease in player skill, and thus causes even worse AP requirements.

And what do you suggest to do about it? Ban people for asking for specific requirements to join their party? Remove manual party making, and only allow people to use the LFP feature?

 

Thank you for enlightening the close-minded idiot me, but can we also get a new constructive suggestion on top?

[Azuhariet]

delet

[Enhance]

17 minutes ago, Azuhariet said:

NA is already set on the path of destruction. If this game survives to reach far future patches, people will be wondering why majority of NA's playerbase are absolute garbage at the game. I'm simply enlightening you on the reason.

 

There is only one possibility that I can think of to fix this problem, and that would be an actual DPS meter. Yes, there will be elitists. Yes, people will still think that gear is the only thing affecting their DPS. Yes, there will be DPS requirements. And yes, this will cause a lot of new problems. However, the large difference in having a DPS meter will be that there will be actual solid proof that skilled players with much lower AP than unskilled players who have high AP can outdps them, and maybe then people will open their eyes and get motivated to git gud.

I may be wrong, but doesn't "being skilled" also involve being a party player and using skills to assist party rather than just being able to do deeps? Destroyer/LBM's grab, assassin/KFM/warlock's party buff, summoner/FM party protection, CCing bosses, etc?

 

I mean, what you're suggesting is basically "Ask people with high AP and Crit/CDMG rather than just AP" - the only way for you to see my determine DPS pre-run is other stats.

And in the dungeon, I could just be a random class mashing my LMB RMB and getting protected by summoners/forcemasters/destroyers while BM/KFM holds the aggro, all while having the highest dps and thus being the all-desired MVP.

 

Though I don't argue that DPS meters would be nice - for personal convenience and progression - I doubt they'll have any positive contribution to solving the party-making issues at hand. I stand by my argument to simply hardcode the "recommended" requirements for dungeons instead of letting people set them on their own. If those numbers are the low numbers that make the dungeon possible to finish with a bit of skill involved, it would better show the gap between minimum & asked-for requirements.

 

For example (numbers are random), if Yeti as of now had something among the lines of "Recommended level 47, 35k HP, 390AP, 40% crit" and there was a recruitment asking for "50HM8+ 550+ AP", it would be more obvious that it's an overkill that either tries to do the dungeon in 3 minutes or compensate for the lack of skill with damage dealt.

And I think that if the party above those hardcoded requirements fails the dungeon, they will be less likely to blame their gear - as it's already satisfying "recommended" requirements - and will be more likely to revise their strategy or try new approaches, google for guides whatnot.

[Azuhariet]

delet

[Enhance]

2 minutes ago, Azuhariet said:

If this were a perfect community then I'd agree with you here, but all I can see happening if actual limits were set on dungeons is that they would be ignored completely.

If it's presented well enough for users, they'll see it. The community is not perfect but if you make the "recommended stats" apparent enough you will have enough people who wonder "How come we are all above recommended requirements yet still wiped in the first room? Perhaps we're doing something wrong!"

 

 

As for "look who's thinking", I assume you for some reason thought I'm defending people asking for "high AP" or do that myself. I assure you, this is not the case - I don't think it's a great thing to do, I never do that myself, nor do I even join those despite having pretty much end-game gear, and I don't leave parties just because someone came to lab with true infernal weapon.

I simply don't think they're doing anything you can persecute them for, and I believe it is entirely up to them to ask for any unrealistic and unneeded requirements, and I don't think there's anything you can do to stop that. You can hate the so-called "elitists" all you want, you can shame them or explain how their requirements are way out of the line, but I believe the best solution solution would be if the game itself said "Yeah, you should be able to do it with your true profane or whatever gear."

[Tracmar]

Did a small social experiment on my destroyer : 

 

He has true siren weapon and awakened siren accessories . For fun I had the Axe style changed to Infernal and wore a Hongmoon uniform and random queued for Labyrinth 

Queue popped, and as soon as ported in , people just left me alone :(

 

[NoeyJD]

High AP means:

 

-Faster Runs

-Higher sucessful rate

-Experienced

 

now shut up

[876605_1452550437]

5 minutes ago, NoeyJD said:

High AP means:

 

-Faster Runs

-Higher sucessful rate

-Experienced

 

now shut up

Pretty much

[Shinsetsu]

So here's a question...those people putting high AP requirements on dungeons. I see in F8 lobby when you recruit, you just click the dungeon number and auto-join.

 

What's to stop me from joining without meeting the requirements? Players gonna check my profile, maybe, after we entered the entrance area, but you can't kick players so...if they really don't want me there, they have to all leave party and go back to the lobby...

[876605_1452550437]

5 minutes ago, Shinsetsu said:

So here's a question...those people putting high AP requirements on dungeons. I see in F8 lobby when you recruit, you just click the dungeon number and auto-join.

 

What's to stop me from joining without meeting the requirements? Players gonna check my profile, maybe, after we entered the entrance area, but you can't kick players so...if they really don't want me there, they have to all leave party and go back to the lobby...

Uh..party lead has to hit the go button and they usually check before they enter the dungeon. 

 

You arnt very clever. 

[Shinsetsu]

2 minutes ago, 876605_1452550437 said:

Uh..party lead has to hit the go button and they usually check before they enter the dungeon. 

 

You arnt very clever. 

Even if they check, they can't kick me so they still need to all leave and reform the party...no need to be insulting, I'm just asking a question. Don't be an *cricket*.

[876605_1452550437]

Yeah you can kick in lobby.