Orellandria

The Gunner Manifesto (Blade and Soul NEEDS a gun class)

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Hello everyone, today I wanted to express my views on the gunner, one of the most requested classes (for a reason), and to give my opinion on why such a class would fit in the world of Blade and Soul: (TL;DR at the bottom, it's a long post)

 

NCsoft has stated that a new class will be released in 2016, speculation leads to 3 potential candidates; a gun class, an archer class or a spear class. This is due to a statement that implied that it was one of the classes that was long awaited by the fans, and from what it seems, people want the three classes I listed earlier, so it is safe to assume that NCsoft/Team Bloodlust has taken these possibilities in consideration.

However this post is not about an archer class or a spear class, it's about the gunner.

 

Why would a gun class be acceptable and welcome in the world of BnS?

 

Well the world of BnS is not like Tera or Aion, where guns were out of place and you would not have expected a gun class to be introduced there in a million years, Blade and Soul's world has got plenty of guns, and the thing is, they don't take away anything from the setting, they don't feel out of place.

Many characters, major and minor, use guns, even one of the Eight Masters is a gun user and heads a school where gun training is treated as a "martial art".

 

"But using guns cannot be considered a "martial art" or anything coming close to it!"

 

Well because using your pet to do the work for you is considered a martial art? Because using magic is also considered a martial art? We know the classes, but they do not stop there, out of all of them (including the Soul Fighter) only two respect the traditional and stricter definition of "martial art", and those are the Kung Fu Master and the Soul Fighter. I understand it can be taken in a broader picture, and that COULD include the Blade Master/Dancer, but that is really stretching it. If these classes can exist in their current state and still be considered martial arts, then why can't a gun class (with a proper design) be considered, in the world of Blade and Soul, a martial art too?

 

"But the classes use chi and have an element of grace!"

 

Nothing says grace like a Destroyer or Blade Dancer spinning repeatedly and aimlessly, or a cat scratching people left and right! None of the classes have an element of grace in what they do, nor is it the objective of the MMO itself to have such an aspect in its gameplay.

In the same manner, classes like the aforementioned Destroyer, Blade Dancer/Master and Assassin would use chi just as much as a gun class would. If you want to question its validity, well then answer how the BMs and BDs can use Lightning/Fire/Wind in their attacks, when normally their class would have nothing to do with it, yet they still do and exist in the game. Honestly, you can see how a gun class can be made to do the same, without, at this point, much need for justification.

 

Let's address justification itself now:

 

Only two classes, as already stated, do not require any justification to be implemented. But that is 2 classes out of 9. All the others require disparate amounts of justification to be considered martial arts, and some of them I would not be able to consider martial arts at all, even more unbelievable than using a gun following a certain style.

In truth, if they all were to be considered "martial arts" even considering their world, none of these would need justification, yet most of the classes DO require justification, in varying degrees, so there is NO reason for a gun class to not exist. (Even because the whole game keeps saying that being a gunner can very well be considered a class of its own)

 

TL;DR and final consideration:

 

Many people want a gun class to be introduced, I have met many who do, as well as myself (if you think it's bias it's fine) but I also saw they wanted other classes. Gunners are everywhere, one of the Eight Masters is a gunner, and they fit. If it's a matter of justification, well most of the classes require justification, some more than a gun class both in theirs and our world. If properly designed (which at this point considering classes like SMN, WL and FM exist it wouldn't be hard) it could very well find its place in the game, easily. There isn't ONLY one magic ranged class, there are three, so saying "it's hard to balance for PvP" as they did in the past is no longer an excuse.

 

Now, I understand that there are more pressing matters at hand than this, but everyone knows about them, including NCsoft, and they've been done to death. I wanted to bring up something different as well as making a statement, that there are people interested in a gun class, even here in the West. I wanted to make it known and say what I think about this matter, as it seems people have differing views which is fine, everyone can have their own opinion, but there are some things that can be argued against. I love this game, and I would like it to succeed, after all I've been interested in it ever since it was announced.

 

LET IT BE KNOWN THAT SOME OF US ARE INTERESTED IN A GUN CLASS NCSOFT, NOT ALL OF US OF COURSE, BUT MORE PEOPLE THAN WHAT YOU THINK.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

EDIT 2: Old link (though not that old) http://2p.com/37341556_1/Blade-amp-Soul-New-Class-Musketeer-will-Probably-Debut-in-2016-by-Noki-Kim.htm

The title is a bit clickbaity, but it's clear that NCsoft has noticed the interest in the class.

EDIT 3: A spear class would be generic in this, while there are spear classes, they act very much like any other melee class, and since we got BDs, BMs and Destros covering pretty much all the aspects, I don't see the spear class as an ideal class. For the archers, as I posted, instead while the concept is a classic it's also a very old concept that we've seen again and again in MMOs, under many guises/styles what have you. A fan class. as some suggested, would definitely be original but, looking at (SPOILER) Julia (SPOILER) it just looks like another typical magic class...

A gun class just seems much more fitting in this occasion.

Edited by Orellandria
Grammar

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Dotimus   

really, you are calling magic to chi?

 

The Anti Gunner Manifesto:

 

syn ->ninjutsu

BM/BD -> kendo/ aikido/....

KFM -> really, i dont think it needs explaining

FM/Warlock -> supposed forms of tai chi or qigong

Des -> many martial arts had forms with large weapons, not just strictly axes but also polearms

 

now, guns,,,,, i dont really see it fit in game

 

note, i do see des inclusion in game as a way to appeal ti the lineage players

 

you might be asking yourself, what is this guy expecting then?

well, i do expect a mid range classe, bases on staffs

something that is not 16m ranged but at most something with 3-8m range,

you can call it a monk....

Edited by Dotimus

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Fredy2   

Well the enemies are a good indication. and i dont see the muskets being out of place... only issue i got is Poharan using desert eagles (i think so dont quote me on that) being out of place... BUT she be pirate style so i say to myself she sailed the "7 seas" and got a sweet trade with some American lol

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I'd love a gunner class, and I hate the 'doesn't fit' counter arguement.
First of all, so what? A new class is always a welcome class regardless of what it does.

 

Second of all, like OP said there are already SEVERAL guns (including Poharans minigun, Soha's dual pistols/rifle and basically AK-47s in silverfrost, I could go on) in the game that developers had consciously added to the game. To hell with a gunner being out of place when, as said before, there's an entire martial arts school in the new region dedicated to marksmanship.

 

Third of all, I'm getting tired of all the magic/spiritual energied ranged classes, allow us to have a weapon made for range this time. Gun-fu is a thing in several media as well, it's no stranger to games like this either.

 

btw

 

 

I don't care if this was originally for destroyer, the way the gunner moves is unlike any mob in the game. Only one that comes close is sohas brother, so it's safe to assume this guy was playable on the dev build at a point. Pistol stance and rifle stance are likely his alternatives of draw stance and basic stance.

 

The evidence that the class could easily be applied to the game is right there.

Edited by Karurosuda

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Penterax   

I've wanted to play a Gunner ever since the first cut-scene for Soha. :)

 

Arguing that a Gunner class doesn't belong in BnS is ridiculous. Soha herself is a Hongmoon school disciple. If Master Hong thought a Gunner was right for his school, so do I. (You could argue he didn't teach her to be a Gunner specifically but none of the other classes work that way, so why should the Gunner class?) And there are many mobs that use guns in the game.

 

All that said "need" is too strong a word. BnS doesn't "need" any more classes. I think I would enjoy any of those mentioned above, but I would put the Gunner first on my list of choices.

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Raijin   

I already reserved my name some time ago in case a gunner class is coming. Same for a spear or fan wielding class although I'd prefer a gunner. :D

 

Bring it on!

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49 minutes ago, Dotimus said:

really, you are calling magic to chi?

 

The Anti Gunner Manifesto:

 

syn ->ninjutsu

BM/BD -> kendo/ aikido/....

KFM -> really, i dont think it needs explaining

FM/Warlock -> supposed forms of tai chi or qigong

Des -> many martial arts had forms with large weapons, not just strictly axes but also polearms

 

now, guns,,,,, i dont really see it fit in game

 

note, i do see des inclusion in game as a way to appeal ti the lineage players

 

you might be asking yourself, what is this guy expecting then?

well, i do expect a mid range classe, bases on staffs

something that is not 16m ranged but at most something with 3-8m range,

you can call it a monk....

 

The Warlock is based on Ofuda, which is a paper talisman/charm/seal magic from Shinto.  It's popular in anime (Inuyasha and Sailor Moon are two that come to mind) but isn't strictly a martial art.

 

As for a gunner/rifleman class, it's worth mentioning that Gun Kata is considered an informal martial art and there are several other combat disciplines involving handguns and gunplay.  Have you seen John Wick?  They use many of them throughout the film.  Equilibrium is probably the most common example of gunplay as a martial art.  It's a thing.

 

 

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A gunner class does make sense (considering the bombs and guns already in the game) the world of BnS seems to have knowledge on how to control black/gun powder already, plus you can argue each over world hub (viridian, cinder lands etc etc) have a greater number of certain enemy types then others ( so

silver frost is talus with more gunners compared to other types)

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1 hour ago, Dotimus said:

really, you are calling magic to chi?

 

The Anti Gunner Manifesto:

 

syn ->ninjutsu

BM/BD -> kendo/ aikido/....

KFM -> really, i dont think it needs explaining

FM/Warlock -> supposed forms of tai chi or qigong

Des -> many martial arts had forms with large weapons, not just strictly axes but also polearms

 

now, guns,,,,, i dont really see it fit in game

 

note, i do see des inclusion in game as a way to appeal ti the lineage players

 

you might be asking yourself, what is this guy expecting then?

well, i do expect a mid range classe, bases on staffs

something that is not 16m ranged but at most something with 3-8m range,

you can call it a monk....

Except it already exist in game a whole martial arts school dedicated to it... if you did the 45-50 story its right in there so YES i do think we need a gunslinger class similar to Soha.

 

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Hegaton   

that "Gunner video" is old as the hell, may be same time that lyn run around in 4 legs like a true squirrel

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Zarec   

They tried to do a gunner class and they decided against it.  If you guys truly want a gunner class..you'll need to take it up with the korean devs.  NCwest is only the publisher for this region.  All major game updates/balance changes/new classes comes from the korean region.  Not here.  You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first by commenting on these forums.  The korean devs don't read these.  Considering this game is still in its infancy for the US/EU region, anything the dev's from NCwest request won't be pushed to high priority.  

 

Considering they just released a soul fighter in jan, we may get a gunner class but won't be for a year as korea gets it first.

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2 hours ago, Zarec said:

They tried to do a gunner class and they decided against it.  If you guys truly want a gunner class..you'll need to take it up with the korean devs.  NCwest is only the publisher for this region.  All major game updates/balance changes/new classes comes from the korean region.  Not here.  You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first by commenting on these forums.  The korean devs don't read these.  Considering this game is still in its infancy for the US/EU region, anything the dev's from NCwest request won't be pushed to high priority.  

 

Considering they just released a soul fighter in jan, we may get a gunner class but won't be for a year as korea gets it first.

The thing is, that while it is true that most of the decisions are taken in Korea, recently there have been some patch notes where you can see some basic "options" such as race/gender change that (this is speculation) seem to appeal to the western audience or came as a result of the west being interested in such features, rather than the Korean audience, considering the game has been out for years, these changes would have been implemented before now if there was any demand in Korea or other nearby regions.

So I don't think trying to to show interest in this is for naught, if anything it will let NCsoft west know that we too would like such a class, since the Koreans too wanted those classes.

 

Regarding the updates though, it's clear NCsoft is trying to push content out fast so that NA and EU can participate in the tournaments, as the patches have come out quickly and steadily, so we will see what happens. For now I just want to make sure that this voice is present.

Edited by Orellandria

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Also I apologise for the double, however I wanted to say that, this being my sincere opinion, I think that a class with that would use spears would be rather generic, considering it's another melee class in the fashion of BDs, BMs, or Destros. Depending on how they design the class though it could be different, but it would still be a melee with no chi/magic. An archer class would satisfy the long range non magic/chi class requirement, although, while yes it IS a classic, it is also a really old concept that we've seen in thousands of games under different guises already.

 

I strongly feel a gun class would be able to bring more to the table than either of those classes.

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Zel   

Remember the last time NCsoft introduced a Gunner class into their games? That super fun period where it instantly became the most broken class in the game so far to the point that China made their own patch that gutted the class because it was so game breaking, and on the NA servers was responsible for the mass exodus of the PvP playerbase. Yeah.. I don't think we need Gunners. I mean thematically I guess if you want to play the Gunkata card sure, but holy crap NCsoft can never get balance right and never will.

Edited by Zel

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31 minutes ago, Zel said:

Remember the last time NCsoft introduced a Gunner class into their games? That super fun period where it instantly became the most broken class in the game so far to the point that China made their own patch that gutted the class because it was so game breaking, and on the NA servers was responsible for the mass exodus of the PvP playerbase. Yeah.. I don't think we need Gunners. I mean thematically I guess if you want to play the Gunkata card sure, but holy crap NCsoft can never get balance right and never will.

No class in this game is 'overly broken', and those that were considered overpowered were hit or will be hit with nerfs (lookng at you warlock and probably soul fighter).


This game and that game are two seperate games, Gunner there was probably broken due to the number of factors not native to this game. Don't assume a gunner would be instantly OP here just because another game screwed up. I've seen several MMO do gunner right, same can be done here.


And quite frankly I don't see how gunner could possibly be more 'broken' than the other ranged characters we already have.

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12 minutes ago, ellenjanuary said:

No, eeew. :P

 

I'm sick of ranged. Melee needs some love. KFM4life. :D

Funny how the melee tor ranged class ratio is actually 5:3, melee gets plenty of love.

Soulfighters an interesting cross so they dont count.

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7 hours ago, Zel said:

Remember the last time NCsoft introduced a Gunner class into their games? That super fun period where it instantly became the most broken class in the game so far to the point that China made their own patch that gutted the class because it was so game breaking, and on the NA servers was responsible for the mass exodus of the PvP playerbase. Yeah.. I don't think we need Gunners. I mean thematically I guess if you want to play the Gunkata card sure, but holy crap NCsoft can never get balance right and never will.

Karurosuda is right in his assertion that it's a different game that this time focuses on PvP, so you can assume NCsoft will be more careful, and even when one class (the Warlock) started being problematic, they gutted it pretty fast.

 

Regardless, one of the concerns was that Gunner was, at the time, a "ranged" class that they said would have caused problems only due to the fact it was RANGED. Well, now we got 3 ranged classes and 1 mixed. I don't think they have any excuse to not introduce it now, since the only thing missing is a non magical ranged class, and gunner fits the bill.

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Shukran   

i dont like and would not want a gunner in game.

 

but who cares . my imput won't be recognized.

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On 3/30/2016 at 4:48 PM, Profyrion said:

 

The Warlock is based on Ofuda, which is a paper talisman/charm/seal magic from Shinto.  It's popular in anime (Inuyasha and Sailor Moon are two that come to mind) but isn't strictly a martial art.

 

As for a gunner/rifleman class, it's worth mentioning that Gun Kata is considered an informal martial art and there are several other combat disciplines involving handguns and gunplay.  Have you seen John Wick?  They use many of them throughout the film.  Equilibrium is probably the most common example of gunplay as a martial art.  It's a thing.

 

 

Yeah the Gun Kata from Equilibrium is the first thing that came to my mind. If you haven't seen the movie go check it out, its awesome and the gun play is fantastic. Also, Champions Online had a gunslinger type power set that was really cool and paralleled the theory of Gun kata. It would be a pretty cool idea to add to BnS I think, and would be a great mid range option using dual pistols and incorporating some extra shots like a sniper shot or smg spray and pray AOE shot. Since there are already a load of guns already in the game, the 'out of place in BnS' argument is pretty weak. 

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Morcra   

i think this game needs a staff class. You know, like a monk class with holy powers. make it mid ranged. with a decent amount of all around aoe and protection. a mob destroyer. a gunner would be nice but like....i think we need more mid range classes

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Luucy   

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this topic, as the OP mentionned the Blade Master and Blade Dancers are not martial art classes !! Sorry but the use of saber IS actually part of martial arts ! Even the Force Master who don't use magic but the Chi Forces to generate fire and ice spells. To me, the only classes who are not martials are Destroyer (too brutal) and Summoner (totally wtf :D).

 

For my opinion, a gunner would not feel out of place since it exists in the game already. Is it a martial art ? To me it's not, but it seems that school of "gunners" appeared in the SF patch, so why not ? Personnaly, i'd prefer a staff class, but maybe it would be too close to the blade dancer's fighting style. 

 

Imo, we will have the gunner since it seems it's the most wanted next class.

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Morcra   
8 minutes ago, Luucy said:

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on this topic, as the OP mentionned the Blade Master and Blade Dancers are not martial art classes !! Sorry but the use of saber IS actually part of martial arts ! Even the Force Master who don't use magic but the Chi Forces to generate fire and ice spells. To me, the only classes who are not martials are Destroyer (too brutal) and Summoner (totally wtf :D).

 

For my opinion, a gunner would not feel out of place since it exists in the game already. Is it a martial art ? To me it's not, but it seems that school of "gunners" appeared in the SF patch, so why not ? Personnaly, i'd prefer a staff class, but maybe it would be too close to the blade dancer's fighting style. 

 

Imo, we will have the gunner since it seems it's the most wanted next class.

Pretty sure u mean destroyer and blade dancer. Cus ive been playing BM and it is by far, despite kfm, the most martial art like class in this game.

 

But yeah, blade dancer, while i love mine, has no type of martial art xD.   we literally jump around all over place and maybe shoot some wind blast. we have no form at all .

Edited by Morcra

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