Laosduude Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 People need to stop using WoW as a staple of their posts. I've played it for eight years and I've pushed content from vanilla to cata before the game started going to utter shit lel. And honestly, almost all mmorpgs WILL HAVE gear checks, even if a person isn't knowledgeable of a boss, it's still better than bringing some low gear person and the enrage timer hits because I take the time to tell the new comer how to fight the bosses after learning it myself 100%. Look at guild wars 2, casual as f u c k game, still has gear checks. Want casual? Play WoW in it's current state today because obviously Korean MMOs have heavy attention to stats on the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalito Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 8 hours ago, Koter said: No thats an awful idea. Why in the world would Blizzard keep casuals from experiencing the new content lol? No just no dude. Imagine your a new player that just hit 50 and want to see all the new content but you cant because of gear restrictions. how would that make you feel as a new player? Pretty ticked off no? If a new player's desire to see new content means he will mess someone else's run, then my job as a company would be to make a mechanism that would guide said new player through the work required to get geared and keep those already geared doing smooth runs through dungeons with people of similar gear level. I strongly believe that end game should be worked for and earned. I didn't want to bring another game as example but research Tera's item level dungeon restrictions. They have normal and hard versions of the dungeons, just like there were 6man and 4 man versions of dungeons of this game. They have DPS check battles, we have enrage timers. It's pretty similar. Their way keeps undergeared people out of their hardest dungeons. What this causes? People are not leaving because of this (people in that game are leaving because all the other shenanigans going on there.. heh). Those who want to see and be in those dungeons work to get the gear needed to be there. More game play time for them. And people are ensured that those entering the dungeon, at least theoretically, can deal with the required DPS checks. On the other side, there's no automated way to really check a joining player's skill other than gauging completion time, damage done and damage taken. With such a system too hard and resource demanding to implement into an mmo, this part can still only be done by another human being. And this take us to the easiest way. Gear score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profyrion Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Fatalito said: If a new player's desire to see new content means he will mess someone else's run, then my job as a company would be to make a mechanism that would guide said new player through the work required to get geared and keep those already geared doing smooth runs through dungeons with people of similar gear level. I strongly believe that end game should be worked for and earned. I didn't want to bring another game as example but research Tera's item level dungeon restrictions. They have normal and hard versions of the dungeons, just like there were 6man and 4 man versions of dungeons of this game. They have DPS check battles, we have enrage timers. It's pretty similar. Their way keeps undergeared people out of their hardest dungeons. The dungeons have level requirements, and many of them (particularly the purples) also have quest and/or weapon evolution requirements too. Have you actually looked at the tooltips in the dungeon finder? Those requirements are NC setting a baseline for entry to help shield players from content they're not equipped for. And that's about as far as anyone should expect them to take it. All of the AP requirements we're seeing are just players pulling a number out of their asses and calling it the minimum -- it's almost completely arbitrary. I've seen it argued here that +crit and +crit damage are far more important values than AP... but that's another thread. The elitism is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukran Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 there is already a mechanism, sadly NCsoft forgot to update it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalito Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Profyrion said: The dungeons have level requirements, and many of them (particularly the purples) also have quest and/or weapon evolution requirements too. Have you actually looked at the tooltips in the dungeon finder? Those requirements are NC setting a baseline for entry to help shield players from content they're not equipped for. And that's about as far as anyone should expect them to take it. All of the AP requirements we're seeing are just players pulling a number out of their asses and calling it the minimum -- it's almost completely arbitrary. I've seen it argued here that +crit and +crit damage are far more important values than AP... but that's another thread. The elitism is real. Their level + weapon requirement is obviously flawed. At least for higher level dungeons. This means anyone can enter an end game dungeon with a blue weapon and the level. No soul shield, no stats. While I do agree that skill>gear, at least a reasonable minimum gear should be expected. Key word, reasonable. Does not mean you need to be max geared to enter an easier dungeon, but if your gear can't break a minimum threshold for those enrage timers and DPS checks, no matter your skill. You will be a liability. Again. key word, reasonable. Elitists, or at least those called as such, usually request overpowering gear to make their own lives easier. Some even dare request overpowered players when their own gear is sub par. Those just want to be carried. While others are simply interested in speed runs to post in their shiny youtube channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilleax Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The gear cost alone is ABSURD for anyone to work their way up to with a real career consuming a portion of their life, a family, etc... And it's not that people are undergeared, it's that top geared people demand other 480+ AP people who are among the minority. This game is not for the elite alone. Endgame is not for the elite alone. Elitists kill me. FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalito Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, lilleax said: The gear cost alone is ABSURD for anyone to work their way up to with a real career consuming a portion of their life, a family, etc... And it's not that people are undergeared, it's that top geared people demand other 480+ AP people who are among the minority. This game is not for the elite alone. Endgame is not for the elite alone. Elitists kill me. FFS While it doesn't seem like it exist, there's actual parties out there not requiring max geared players. Elitists are just the noisier ones. So noisy that it makes it appear as if they are the only guys running end game. I myself do not do end game, but I'm sure that if I decided to get some semblance of an online social life and get myself in a clan and get actual in game friends, I may be able to run plenty of content with not much worry about elitists or people who pose as such to get carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passel Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 ppl asking 450 ap for 6 man BS dg, I am kinda raise my eyebrows: " really?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saksoy Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Passel said: ppl asking 450 ap for 6 man BS dg, I am kinda raise my eyebrows: " really?" Noobs thats why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilleax Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 9 hours ago, Passel said: ppl asking 450 ap for 6 man BS dg, I am kinda raise my eyebrows: " really?" Same. I don't have that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttacKat Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 13 hours ago, Laoshottie said: And honestly, almost all mmorpgs WILL HAVE gear checks, even if a person isn't knowledgeable of a boss, it's still better than bringing some low gear person and the enrage timer hits because I take the time to tell the new comer how to fight the bosses after learning it myself 100%. What you failed to see is the difference between a realistic gear check, vs unrealistic elitist AP easy button smashing demand. When Laby first came out, some were asking for 400AP and I laughed as I done it with 375AP. Today, people are asking for 475 AP for BSH. Really? Laby can be done with 375 AP, so don't tell me 475AP is required for BSH when you don't even need 375AP to complete it. This elitist AP demand will create an environment forcing new players to think their gear isn't good enough because of the AP, and rushing to upgrade their gear via HMStore. Once they reach that 500AP, all the while only at L50HM1, they find they have no clue on even how to play their class effectively because all they have been doing is LM+RM during most of their leveling. I am sorry, but gear check simply doesn't work for this game. This game is about skill+combos, not gear+dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haru22 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 I honestly don't understand the argument here. Let the "elitists" say what they want. No one is forcing anyone to join them, and if those of you truly believe that 370 AP or whatever is good enough for Lab, go grab 5 other 370 average AP people and run it. What's the big deal? Don't tell me you're asking to get carried by a 450+ AP individual that you disagree isn't required, right? Of course not, because that would be completely illogical. Or rather contradictory towards your current beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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