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MVDMVP

state of blade dancers

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MVDMVP   

are they really so bad that they are not accepted into parties? is that ever going to change?

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Caex   

play with friends honestly i dont do pugs

 

my clan loves my play style and also respects it. Just becuase im a blade dancer i do get ridiculed 

 

i do some sick damage and crits along with cc and secondary tank in case main falls.

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I have yet to meet people who don't want BD in their party but I have noticed that the class takes the blame for each time someone launches the boss in air. So I suppose they don't want possibly another person who just airs the bosses making it harder to kill within the time limit. An yes I think BD do have some sick skill combos to make horrific damage.

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Caex   
3 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I have yet to meet people who don't want BD in their party but I have noticed that the class takes the blame for each time someone launches the boss in air. So I suppose they don't want possibly another person who just airs the bosses making it harder to kill within the time limit. An yes I think BD do have some sick skill combos to make horrific damage.

to fix that i take teh right side of Of take flight so that instead it does a massive crit xD and no launching and it saves most folks the griefing

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Just now, Caex said:

to fix that i take teh right side of Of take flight so that instead it does a massive crit xD and no launching and it saves most folks the griefing

So far within my whole few months with blade dancer I have only launched bosses when someone managed to cause it to have certain status for another skill. Like push F button to use skill and suddenly on 0,2 s moment it changes to another skill and woo everyone rages at you.

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Caex   

and this is exactly why i take that extra point into take flight. Bigger hit without the worry. becuase i find myself at times just subconsciously pressing f at the wrong times.

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15 minutes ago, Caex said:

and this is exactly why i take that extra point into take flight. Bigger hit without the worry. becuase i find myself at times just subconsciously pressing f at the wrong times.

 

What I have is maxed rolling typhoon. Awesome power with some 2 F RMB(x3-4) F RMB(x3-4) F combo. Probably will test out that one but need to first check what skills should I change so i get the skill point needed.

 

For some reason recently though I have noted that my X and V skill do not work the same as before. I keep getting hit during them when i have iframe ongoing which I find a bit odd. Anyone else having such experience?

Edited by Lunakitty

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Honestly i run 4 mans all the time on my BD, I end up tanking even when we have a KFM Sum or Destroyer in our party because I dunno. Actually I get forced to tank cause they are lazy clan mates and because i can CC, iframe, self heal and pick up bosses all on my own I spec wind build for when i'm not in draw mode with Iframes/healing on my z x and v so i can tank for days and soak up damage. 

 

Thing is LBD isn't the top dps never will be but with wind build you get a nice balanced dps when out of draw just spam RMB +f and falcon with fissure to gain focus then when draw is ready again spam that ani cancel.  I always start with draw then use my other skills when that is on CD then repeat, day one of the 50 patch i was running 4 mans without any new gear too. 

 

Thing is LBD is one of the most versatile classes you can spec for pure dps(multi slash on wind build deals heaps of damage, regains focus and readies typhoon) and no CC's or iframes, iframes and healing or CC heavy or any mixture of things, you can pull groups of trash mobs and CC and kill them easily or spec to tank bosses while self healing and still dealing decent damage, you wont out dps a FM but you can match them while in draw stance with ani cancel and crits you become a self healing damage dealing god for a few seconds =P 

 

2 points in take flight can stop you launching bosses but if you watch what you are doing there's no need and i tend to stack the 2 points into the bleed skill of my soul stab combo so i can stack bleed 5 times all the time for extra dps. 

 

First time we ran 4 man Necro every one died on nightmare wave i was like v v v SS z x happy days no damage lol the thing i found is there is now a brief moment when using v between rotations when you can be hit and X spec'd to stop damage on approach doesn't work on some bosses attacks there is one in lair that has killed me when i SS in mid flight when it's and immune part of the animation.  

Edited by OuchThatHurt

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I main a LBM and yes i get blamed for launching low dps and many more things at times.  Am i the best LBM? im sure the answer is no but im not the worst as well.  As long as you do your best, are flexible to the ptys needs and the job gets done WHO CARES.  As far as im concerned they can shove their spreadsheets, prejudices and other misgivings up their a##.  So long as your having fun and the job gets done with reasonable effort and time that's the important part no matter what class you choose to play.

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On 29/03/2016 at 3:33 AM, OuchThatHurt said:

Honestly i run 4 mans all the time on my BD, I end up tanking even when we have a KFM Sum or Destroyer in our party because I dunno. Actually I get forced to tank cause they are lazy clan mates and because i can CC, iframe, self heal and pick up bosses all on my own I spec wind build for when i'm not in draw mode with Iframes/healing on my z x and v so i can tank for days and soak up damage. 

 

Thing is LBD isn't the top dps never will be but with wind build you get a nice balanced dps when out of draw just spam RMB +f and falcon with fissure to gain focus then when draw is ready again spam that ani cancel.  I always start with draw then use my other skills when that is on CD then repeat, day one of the 50 patch i was running 4 mans without any new gear too. 

 

Thing is LBD is one of the most versatile classes you can spec for pure dps(multi slash on wind build deals heaps of damage, regains focus and readies typhoon) and no CC's or iframes, iframes and healing or CC heavy or any mixture of things, you can pull groups of trash mobs and CC and kill them easily or spec to tank bosses while self healing and still dealing decent damage, you wont out dps a FM but you can match them while in draw stance with ani cancel and crits you become a self healing damage dealing god for a few seconds =P 

 

2 points in take flight can stop you launching bosses but if you watch what you are doing there's no need and i tend to stack the 2 points into the bleed skill of my soul stab combo so i can stack bleed 5 times all the time for extra dps. 

 

First time we ran 4 man Necro every one died on nightmare wave i was like v v v SS z x happy days no damage lol the thing i found is there is now a brief moment when using v between rotations when you can be hit and X spec'd to stop damage on approach doesn't work on some bosses attacks there is one in lair that has killed me when i SS in mid flight when it's and immune part of the animation.  

this is funny, just today i did 4 man Lair for the 1st time since i finally got to 498 AP and nobody can complain about my gear (pug ofc) and i ran it with 3 summs... yes 3. Anyway 1 summ had 509 AP another had 498 AP and the other had 475 (not sure about 475 but was lower than 480). We did the bosses in pretty good time with like 30+ seconds left on each boss and no deaths (3 summ heals welp and 3 cat grabs) odd thing is these summoners all had more critical dmg 1200-1400 than me as a LBM and  andi only had 1116 yet i tanked every single boss from room 1 to last boss yet i see ppl complain that lbm have the lowest dps even lower than sm.... i really dont understand where this is coming from... because i can even hold aggro off equally geared FM and better geared sins(since most sins are stealth dependent and i am not) the FMs that i cant really hold aggro off are the ones that have insane critical dmg like the 1400-1500+ or just insane gear or the ones that stupidly spec into their ice skills with THREAT. 

 

Lik most ppl just jump on the KR train saying that lbm have lowest dps without proof and its sad that they dont realise that LBM dmg was buffed on reaching NA/EU just like some WL skills were nerfed (still need nerf IMO class fckin OP.) like i have so many lbm in my clan who reroll to FM and they cry how boring FM is and even when other retards thrashing lbm about dps, they stand up cuz they know otherwise cuz they actually PLAYED the class and have EXPERIENCE with it.... but these noobs have no reason or right whatsoever to put the class down cuz they dont know sht and just regurgitate what they hear from others.... its so sad man...

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Zel   

If you look at it mechanically, LBM brings two things to a party. On demand CC, and being literally unkillable.

 

In terms of the CC the only other class that fulfill this role without assistance from another class is the Destroyer. And as it turns out, Destro dps isn't quite stellar on single targets, whereas LBM's live and breathe on single target damage. LBM's basically invalidate the need to bring a Destro entirely unless for some magically lazy reason you want double CC so you can just hold a boss in the air for 10,000 years.

 

On a less important note, you're *cricket* invincible. What does this mean functionally in a party? Well, anyone that's played a LBM know's this. Unless there's a FM in the party of equal gear, you're going to have second aggro if your tank dies. That means it's your turn to tank. Evasion tank anyways. LBM's can't take a punch to the face but they can i-frame for days while keeping the DPS up. Functionally an LBM can straight burn a target while dodging all incoming damage for the duration it takes to get the tank alive again in every scenario without any DPS loss.

 

Now comes the issue of DPS. We're not top DPS. Never have been, never will be. The class is just designed wrong to be a top DPS. To many defensive techs, no burst skills, a large toolkit devoted to CC (Great for PvP though) and no built in steroid, unless you count Focus (you shouldn't). What we do have though is CD independent consistent damage output and infinite focus. This means that at all times, we are always doing our maximum DPS. Right from the start, right to the end, after we get knocked down, even if we hit the wrong button and use a random skill, we can always start right back up with our highest DPS rotation.

 

All in all we're a support DPS class, and until the DPS meter comes out anyone that says LBM's are bad DPS are talking out of their ass or just echoing the KR opinion which has no place here. That said...You're probably better off taking multiple FM's over a LBM.

 

And now for a rant. Hilariously people are starting to say Sin is the highest DPS. Funnily enough Aion had the same thing, Sins having the potential to be the highest DPS (For various reasons, Ping being a core one but player ability is also a huge factor). But you know what? Only a few Sins on NA ever could. And when they did it was by a pretty sizeable margin that left other classes in the dust, but never the class as a whole. Assassins ended up as a class that wasn't known by the class itself, but by the player. "Assassins aren't good DPS, X Player is good DPS."  I already see this happening here all over again. While some Assassin players might top the DPS charts, the class as a whole never will. But then, you looked at the KR Assassins. Every *cricket* one was a DPS machine head and shoulders above every other class. I can think of 5 Assassins (Pre merge Lumiel and Post Israphel) in Aion that topped the charts consistently, the rest were trash. And we're talking thousands of others.

Edited by Zel

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Chikotan   

I'm getting this weird feeling that you're referring to sunder/typhoon as our highest DPS rotation.

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sorjaixp   

i haven't seen anyone in pug parties able to outdps me as a lbd whether they have more ap or crit dmg%. only time they might ever have the chance to steal aggro from me is either if i mess up really badly or they have threat/taunt skills. other than that i would say lbd is still in the game even for 50 cap. it really depends on how you play.

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Kretias   

Havent met a group yet that complained about me being a BD. In pugs its usualy me having the aggro anyway (in guild groups its usualy our GM. But he heavily outgears us all on his FM) unless there is someone with threat skills. Neither was i blamed for shoting the bosses into air whenever someone does it. Infact i always complain when someone launches him into the air as it most of the time knows me out of the drawing stance cycle.

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JustBD   

Where did u guys get your informations that a BD is low DPS? Is it always subjective opinion and feeling? Or are u just cite other posts? I never see any facts or details. Are there any BnS DPS formulas or do they have in korea a DPS meter plugin? Where are the facts which confirm all the subjectives opinions, can anyone please share them with me?

My subjective feeling is that i have a lot of aggro in partys with my BD, is aggro an indicator for good DPS? Or could it be that i have always the aggro but do the lowest dps on the boss?

For example, yesterday i did a laby pug run with 4xFM, 1xsumm and me as BD. While it was my second run in laby and i didnt know the bosses i was skilled more on survive, so no cleave and i used tempest guardian. Before we started i checked the other players, all had nearly same AP like me and some had better soulshields. So i thought that will be a relaxed run for me cause all will have higher dps, but fact was that i had often aggro and the double boss where the party will split i had all the time aggro on the boss which i attacked. I am a casual gamer, not a pro BD gamer. And i dont think that these guys in my party are all bad, they had between 3 and 5 stars, so they know there classes as good as i know mine i think. That happened to me often that i got aggro in partys when all chars are on the same AP level.
And when BD have low DPS, whats the gap? When there is a boss for example with 2kk life and it will be done by a FM+BD. Is the DMG like FM=1,5kk and BD= 0,5kk OR is it like FM=1,05kk and BD 0,95kk cause i ever read lvl 50 content is balanced, how could it be balanced when all think BD is bad?

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Zel   
5 hours ago, JustBD said:

Where did u guys get your informations that a BD is low DPS? Is it always subjective opinion and feeling? Or are u just cite other posts? I never see any facts or details. Are there any BnS DPS formulas or do they have in korea a DPS meter plugin? Where are the facts which confirm all the subjectives opinions, can anyone please share them with me?

My subjective feeling is that i have a lot of aggro in partys with my BD, is aggro an indicator for good DPS? Or could it be that i have always the aggro but do the lowest dps on the boss?

For example, yesterday i did a laby pug run with 4xFM, 1xsumm and me as BD. While it was my second run in laby and i didnt know the bosses i was skilled more on survive, so no cleave and i used tempest guardian. Before we started i checked the other players, all had nearly same AP like me and some had better soulshields. So i thought that will be a relaxed run for me cause all will have higher dps, but fact was that i had often aggro and the double boss where the party will split i had all the time aggro on the boss which i attacked. I am a casual gamer, not a pro BD gamer. And i dont think that these guys in my party are all bad, they had between 3 and 5 stars, so they know there classes as good as i know mine i think. That happened to me often that i got aggro in partys when all chars are on the same AP level.
And when BD have low DPS, whats the gap? When there is a boss for example with 2kk life and it will be done by a FM+BD. Is the DMG like FM=1,5kk and BD= 0,5kk OR is it like FM=1,05kk and BD 0,95kk cause i ever read lvl 50 content is balanced, how could it be balanced when all think BD is bad?

It's significant. BD is a SUPPORT DPS class. Not a true DPS class. It's not as visible right now with the current patch what with gear progression being stagnant, Elemental Accs not in the game and being in the 50+10 format but we don't really come close to SMN and FM levels. But that's not our job anyways, we're CC and AoE invulnerability. You'll have to skim the KR/JP forums for exact numbers but the consensus over there is that BD's hover towards the mid/bottom in terms of raw DPS in their current patch. Our 50 content is far from balanced though. Right now it's basically play SMN/FM or go home. Every other class is miles behind in terms of DPS, Utility, survivability and overall capability.

Edited by Zel

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Zedonia   
On ‎01‎.‎04‎.‎2016 at 4:06 PM, RudeBwoii said:

because i can even hold aggro off equally geared FM and better geared sins(since most sins are stealth dependent and i am not) the FMs that i cant really hold aggro off are the ones that have insane critical dmg like the 1400-1500+ or just insane gear or the ones that stupidly spec into their ice skills with THREAT. 

FMs doesn't have a single threat skill... If a FM is pulling aggro from you it's simply because he is doing more damage than you. Holding aggro against a equaly geared FM can have 2 reasons:

- you are a tank class (BM/KFM)

- the FM is bad (many FMs are, either because of a bad skill tree or just because they are slow in using skills)

 

The whole thing is just a subjective opinion. I played only one class till max. level because it's too time consuming/expensive to gear up many chars in that game. I like all classes and I think all are good. You can do every dungeon with only 1 class, no matter which one. It may be that some classes do more potentially damage than others but personally I won't care about that. It all depends on the player (did yeti 4 man with a 430 ap FM in the group, who cares?).

 

And because someone mentioned Aion: It's all about the same. Some People are bad as hell even with good gear while others have crap gear and are much better. Not classes are bad, people are!

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sorjaixp   
On 4/8/2016 at 10:46 AM, Zel said:

It's significant. BD is a SUPPORT DPS class. Not a true DPS class. It's not as visible right now with the current patch what with gear progression being stagnant, Elemental Accs not in the game and being in the 50+10 format but we don't really come close to SMN and FM levels. But that's not our job anyways, we're CC and AoE invulnerability. You'll have to skim the KR/JP forums for exact numbers but the consensus over there is that BD's hover towards the mid/bottom in terms of raw DPS in their current patch. Our 50 content is far from balanced though. Right now it's basically play SMN/FM or go home. Every other class is miles behind in terms of DPS, Utility, survivability and overall capability.

sorry you need to get your info rechecked. stop thinking we're pre in elemental. lbd top 3 dps right now. do your research better. you are probably still looking at forums posts about lbds prior to 3.0 skill came out.

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Shiune   
10 minutes ago, sorjaixp said:

sorry you need to get your info rechecked. stop thinking we're pre in elemental. lbd top 3 dps right now. do your research better. you are probably still looking at forums posts about lbds prior to 3.0 skill came out.

You need your info rechecked. 

 

This reddit post was absolutely wrong because they tested it with completely different geared people (the BD for example was high geared while most other classes were low geared). 

 

BDs are still among the worst dps classes - check the recent videos of the new dungeons in KR with the dps meter and you'll find that out. 

Their dps is around 20-30% weaker compared to assassins, Warlocks and FMs for example.

Ofc we have to consider that a BD is grabbing the boss alot which makes their DPS drop very much but they are still not on par with the top. 

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Here's my take on this whole thing....

 

Play what you like and get good. Bottom tier DPS or not, a skilled BD who knows how to maximize their DPS while providing good support is a million times better than someone who doesn't know WTF they are doing, no matter what the class. The fact is, while gear certainly matters, your skill level with your class is much more important in Blade and Soul than any other MMO I have played. That being said, particularly in NA/EU, the most recent region release, there is a HUGE spectrum of skill among players.

 

Stop worrying so much about which class has the best/worst DPS and start worrying about how you can play the class you like to the best of your abilities. If you can't accept that and you still feel like your getting screwed as the "worst DPS", then go play another game.

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Shiune   

^Exactly. 

 

NCsoft could fix this stupid grab hitbox though... boss gets completely desynced if it gets grabbed by a BD and the grab sometimes becomes more of a burden than a support skill. 

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