LordLokai

Junghado... i'm sort of confused

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So i took a break decided to wait for the 50 content, before i really got into the game, and coming back i have had alot of fun, but today i decided to take a crack at Mushin's tower for the first time. first 6 floors went fine, no issues.... but Junghado... i'm confused by this boss and a bit bewildered because it seems like no matter what i do he just spam CC's and kills me inside of a couple of seconds with almost no way to avoid or do anything to stop it.

 

dash, root, slash combo: i have no idea how to avoid this, he dashes at me, roots me in place, ice blasts me and then slashes me in the back. If i backstep break this he simply dashes at me again and repeats the combo endlessly.

 

Doesn't matter if i stay close to him, or get far away, he roots me and just murders me in seconds. If i stay clock his slashing arcs seem to hit me even if i am standing behind him... or at the side. So all advice i read was to keep close and run circles around him while i dps, but none of that seems to work, eventually he back steps and then does the slash combo yet again. So how heck do you avoid this root combo he does? i'm sure i could probably do better if i could simply figure out how to avoid this damn thing...

 

I play an FM as my current main and i like it just wow... i dont understand the mechanics of this boss, he feels just super cheesey. 

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Miryle   

Well Floor 7 is like a "pvp" fight, u have to controle ur enemy, u need to use any of ur CCs in a rotation + max dmg cause he got a enrage timer.

The once u must know is, that he has one special attack, (small red circle around him) where he flurry his sword and then charges u, if he do this, he cant get dmg, or CCed, and If U DONT USE a well timed iframe (like Icflower) u get stunned, air kicked and killed in 1 or 2 combos. If u watch his healthbar u can see this attack if an icon with red frame around pops up. then u should use ur iframe cause 1 sec later he charge you.

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Chikotan   

The ice blast only happens if you get rooted, and the root only happens if you get 3 chill stacks or get hit by his ice aoe (the one with circles all around the room). Chill stacks come from his flicker (regular frontal attack) and pentaslash (dash + 5 hit).

 

I don't know how FMs do it but most classes just keep him cc'd for the whole fight. He doesn't require joint attacks to be cc'd so it's pretty easy for a lot of classes to just keep him locked down and never let him attack. I assume his pentaslash cannot be used while chilled, but like all charge attacks it does break out of roots.

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Elvenmad   

 Compared to the other floors this is were is gets harder and by a big step, you will come out of this fight learning alot more about your class, that is how it was designed. 

 

I dont play FM on this version, but mained it on CN servers, were I think Hado was harder. the way to do this fight is you have to change your build, specifically just for this boss, you want as many CC's, stuns, knockdowns as poss and for FM it is best to run a heavy frost build and keep those  icy/frost stacks up on him all the time, as posted above this fight is all about taking control of him,  if you leave him to run around freely you will die.

 

Edited by Elvenmad

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27 minutes ago, Elvenmad said:

 Compared to the other floors this is were is gets harder and by a big step, you will come out of this fight learning alot more about your class, that is how it was designed. 

 

I dont play FM on this version, but mained it on CN servers, were I think Hado was harder. the way to do this fight is you have to change your build, specifically just for this boss, you want as many CC's, stuns, knockdowns as poss and for FM it is best to run a heavy frost build and keep those  icy/frost stacks up on him all the time, as posted above this fight is all about taking control of him,  if you leave him to run around freely you will die.

 

i run heavy frost already, its my main spec as i enjoy it... but the issue i have is that roots don't seem to effect him. He literally just ignores it and dashes at you even if he is rooted, because i can keep him rooted the whole fight, i can try swapping in a couple of stuns but i just didn't get how to avoid his root which seems to trigger, at start of the fight instantly... i'm not sure all videos i watch he doesn't seem to do what he does against me. I open up, root him in place he instantly dashes, behind me, slashes me, roots me, blasts me, and pretty much at 10% life at that point. 

Hence why i dont understand/grasp what i'm doing wrong precisely, i cant get him to not do that attack and i cant see a way to avoid that attack at all, since it seems to follow you no matter if you are strafing or not. He's confusing because its not exactly clear why he acts the way he does, or does the things he does most bosses have a pattern or reasons that they react the way the do. Jung just seems to lock you down from start to finish. 

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Elvenmad   
1 minute ago, LordLokai said:

i run heavy frost already, its my main spec as i enjoy it... but the issue i have is that roots don't seem to effect him. He literally just ignores it and dashes at you even if he is rooted, because i can keep him rooted the whole fight, i can try swapping in a couple of stuns but i just didn't get how to avoid his root which seems to trigger, at start of the fight instantly... i'm not sure all videos i watch he doesn't seem to do what he does against me. I open up, root him in place he instantly dashes, behind me, slashes me, roots me, blasts me, and pretty much at 10% life at that point. 

Hence why i dont understand/grasp what i'm doing wrong precisely, i cant get him to not do that attack and i cant see a way to avoid that attack at all, since it seems to follow you no matter if you are strafing or not. He's confusing because its not exactly clear why he acts the way he does, or does the things he does most bosses have a pattern or reasons that they react the way the do. Jung just seems to lock you down from start to finish. 

Hmm, not sure, I know he can be very frustrating, one thing that does come to mind is how is your 'Accuracy'  you need to be at least 105% some recomend 110% anything more is a waste, if you have low Accuracy you will be missing your CC's

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Song   

When he starts resisting your damage, use frost sheath (his following attack will hurt a lot).

When he freezes you, use your Q/E/SS.

Spec impact to T3S2 and stun him when you freeze him. 

JHD allows you to phantom grip him, so do that and throw him across the room (this will buy you time from his next attack).

Use meteor shower and phantom grip him if he moves out of its aoe.


Pro tip

1. Make good use of your divine veil, T3S2

2. Use immunity potion (6 seconds one)

3. Practice and watch videos

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7F Junghado is basically a trickier DPS check like the Augerite in 5F, in addition of needing a bigger selection of CC and knowing how to rotate between each. You'll also need iframes/block to use after the red AOE with several slashes, because he'll follow that with 4 slashes that will end in a double aerial that deals huge damage if you don't block/iframe the 4 slashes.

 

As a Destroyer, I'm STILL not quite there to reliably beat him, even at lvl 49 and with 400 AP (largely because I suck at and hate anicancel). I'd be lucky to get him as low as 20% before he enrages within 5 minutes from the start of the fight, which basically means certain death. Don't fret about not being able to do it, it takes a LOT of practice to get it right. Get experience and better gear and you'll eventually make it.

Edited by Tsuchiryu

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I beat him earlier as a FM, fight felt easy compared to earlier attempts before the update.

 

I didn't use anything that special aside from occasional dodges.

I rarely stunned him, at most with glacial beam.

I just jumped around at medium range repeating most attacks and using meteor when I could. Not even burn.

I saved my ice tab and V for when he did that lethal combo of his.

I dodged every random room-wide ice circle attack.

The important thing I did was use Cold Snap + Ice Rain whenever he stood still.

 

Won the fight without even trying with 2 minutes to spare on enrage timer.

Awakened pirate and infernal accessories.

 

With level 50, it has become very easy to make Junghado irrelevant.

 

Mushin's Darkness on the other hand...

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Floor 8.3 will teach you how to dps with your class and not die but as a FM dps isn't really a problem as for floor 7 i beat it at lvl 45 with a new account the other week and it had only infernal gear and 33k hp.

 

You can cheese the Red attacks with the immune potions if you so wish or if you have enough CC's and rooting skills you can beat him without taking damage and as a FM you class is made to DPS and as floor 7 and 8 are basically DPS checks you should be fine with a little practice. 

 

Floor 8 if you deal enough damage he wont do ice attacks and if you use th cheese potions for the massive aoes you can just dps until you drop as a melee class i had to learn to stand in the fire and dps =P 

Edited by OuchThatHurt

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Tohtori   

Since you dont tell anything about your gears its kinda hard to think for solutions, as ur fm= if u have 400+ atk and 40k+ hp u can pretty much just

laadidaa jump around it and kill it... all it takes is rb,lb,f spam for dmg. sure it goes faster if u use other skills too :P

just use q/e if he dashes you to iframe w/e he wants to do after it, and frost Tab when he resists. OHh and yeah if everything is on cd just grip + throw to buy some time.

imo dragonwhorl is better than than glacial as it has lower cd and u dont need the stun that much, just keep him frozen asmuch as possible and its gg.

switch to burn spec if ur having trouble atleast for me its alot easier with it.

 

As for 8.3 its exactly the same as 8,2 for fm... only a bit thighter dps check as fm doesnt have to worry about the ice attack and can keep dpsing on the flame aoe.

Edited by Tohtori

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It used to be hard, but even before Silverfrost update I figured out his game.  This is the first time you will seriously consider the cooldowns of your backstep, q and e dodge moves.  If you are enough HM level, Ice veil fully maxed helps with heals too, and Ice shield comes in handy.  Ice laser 3 also can stun him for 2 seconds, also good for control.  

 

If he is doing his ice AOE, I used to grab him first and then look for a safe spot, then toss him with 2.  He will try to get up and stumble for about a second or two, giving you breathing room/time to smack him with your harder hitting skills.  I had around 370-380 ap the first time I beat him I think.  Nowadays, I barely bother moving with 483 ap, I just put on Ice veil and laugh at his feeble damage.

 

 Also when he is doing his red deadly AOE, backstep or q and e can come in handy, or you can use your ice shield first vice versa. These days I usually just backstep, then use q and e when he comes after me with the 5 hit combo.  Well actually for the red AOE, you really shouldnt be that close anyways as a FM, and its range is so short I  usually just walk out of it too, saving my actual dodges when he lunges.

 

For doing enough damage, I am fire build so I just use V C X (I skip Z, not really worth the bother), and then start laying into him with Fire laser 2 and RMB LMB spam, press F for either ice or fire/ fireicedragoncombo.  Actually lay into him first with the fire/lmb to stack up the ember/orbits for max damage, and THEN use V C X for max efficiency.  Again this is if you spec for a fire build.  Make sure you dont have the explode stack path, that just cancels all your stacks and you'll do less.

 

Oh yea one last thing, don't fight him far range, fight him mid-close range, mid mostly, close when you got him stunned or knockdowned, back off into mid range again when he recovers. Its easier to control the fight this way, close enough to damage him/ he lunges less; far enough so he doesn't actually smack you.

Edited by Forest Keeper
grammatical changes and additional notes

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17 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

7F Junghado is basically a trickier DPS check like the Augerite in 5F, in addition of needing a bigger selection of CC and knowing how to rotate between each. You'll also need iframes/block to use after the red AOE with several slashes, because he'll follow that with 4 slashes that will end in a double aerial that deals huge damage if you don't block/iframe the 4 slashes.

 

As a Destroyer, I'm STILL not quite there to reliably beat him, even at lvl 49 and with 400 AP (largely because I suck at and hate anicancel). I'd be lucky to get him as low as 20% before he enrages within 5 minutes from the start of the fight, which basically means certain death. Don't fret about not being able to do it, it takes a LOT of practice to get it right. Get experience and better gear and you'll eventually make it.

Jughado is pretty damn easy for a destroyer. If you spec your CC and rotate them correctly and don't waste iframes you shouldn't have any issue beating him with True Profane weapon. If you struggle with 7F as Destro, you are going to hate, and I mean HATE 8F. Mushin is a very tough matchup for all melees but especially Destro.

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9 minutes ago, Rockbridge said:

Jughado is pretty damn easy for a destroyer. If you spec your CC and rotate them correctly and don't waste iframes you shouldn't have any issue beating him with True Profane weapon. If you struggle with 7F as Destro, you are going to hate, and I mean HATE 8F. Mushin is a very tough matchup for all melees but especially Destro.

As I said, anicanceling is my biggest roadblock in DPS efficiency. I know a Destroyer that's good at it can beat Junghado with worse gear. I have next to no other issues dealing with the guy besides that, except maybe for being a bit overzealous with how often I CC. Doesn't help I just heard he uses red AOE iframe more often if you CC too much. Dunno if that's just with FM or in general.

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Unfortunately, high level destro play is balanced around ani-cancel as that is your only real source of great dps. I prefer to chain CC and grab when everything is on cd. If he pops the red aoe, back out and get ready to use Searing Strike, shield, or i-frame red spin the second is goes down into draw stance. After that its right back to grab and chain CC/ani-cancel. 

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So FEW more days of attempting i can get him to 30% here is what i know and what i still don't get

 

1: root him: pointless... utterly pointless, junghado can ignore CC depending on what move he is in the middle of doing, certain stances such as his knock up WILL ignore/cancel any CC and he will dash and preform it anyway. The root also DOESN'T do anything beyond apply frozen which boosts damage, it doesnt stop him from running at you, dashing at you, or anything else. The chill also doesn't effect him... so everyone saying spam chill/root please stop suggesting that it does more then boost damage.

 

2: Junghado seems to be able to apply his root almost at will... certain attacks apply chill HOWEVER i've noticed i can have no chill stacks and he will suddenly root you FURTHER i've removed the root via backstep only to have him IMMEDIATELY reapply it. In these situations  you simply die, no way to constantly remove the root also for some reason my fully ranked up tab cc remove doesn't seem to work vs the roots... least not consistently.

 

3: Junghado has 2 or 3 attacks can and will instantly kill me at 32k hp i believe one attack at 30% does well over 40-50k damage if you cant avoid it specifically this attack is suppose to be blocked, countered, as it CANT be dodged. The problem? force master has ONE way to avoid this and that is ice sheath... the issue? junghado SPAMS this move, every 5-10% life lost he will use it again. In my one attempt i dropped him to to below 30% he immediatly used it again but ice sheath was on cooldown. This is game set and match, unless you still have your ice statue... you are boned...

 

4: his ice AOE can be iframed i do it consistently to avoid the damage which makes that section a bit easier...

 

The problem? main issue vs jung and why destroyers. kfm and even assassins have a much easier time? Block/counter i can already tell you from fighting him you are EXPECTED to block and counter certain moves. The Reason the FM has so many issues is that he has a variety of moves to close the gap, he cant be rooted or slowed, and you NEED a counter or block to deflect certain attacks. This is why he is so difficult... in essence he's VERY ANTI-FM he's practically built to frustrate and infuriate anyone that doesn't have a block or counter move. The fact that FM's ONLY defense against his one shot kill has a long cooldown sort of puts me off even caring about him... in a situation you have no cooldowns available you just have to start over because is NO WAY TO AVOID IT!

 

Rage timer isn't my issue, never has been its all his attacks you CANT avoid, he will hit you, he will damage you, and he has several ways to  root you in place... and his ice coil seems to trigger even if he's CC'd. I'm sorry but this guy's not fun or enjoyable, not even that he's hard its that he is basically difficult do to cheese. Most enemies have clear cut patterns to avoid, or ways to deflect things that always feel fair. The problem with jung is that he OFTEN feels super unfair. Those times he roots you, and you back step only to have him dash root you again, forcing you to blow your statue or die. Those times he does his insta gib twice in a row... people that say he's easy are full of shit. He's not easy... he's cheap and full of cheese... i have not seen ANY bosses are as cheap and full of cheap moves are nigh unavoidable as this guy. Iframes don't matter, he simply has attacks will always hit you no matter how fast your reflexes are...

 

Junghado is simply an anti-FM boss... and untill you are sporting 40-50k hp you probably dont stand a chance, he can also resist and ignore some attacks entirely thought his may be lack of accuracy not really sure.

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Tohtori   

you dont need block/counter for that, q/e ice tab/v are enough for everything, theres absolutely 0 skills which u cant avoid with those.

and if u mean you iFrame the whole room ice aoe, just dont, dont waste ur skills on that as u can just run to safe spot.

 

sure i have more than 40-50k hp but i "never" lose more than 10k, wudnt even lose that if i tried but theres no reason, only thing that hurts is if he throws me up which he manages to do maybe every 5th kill.

 

dont be afraid to take little damage, meaning dont waste ur iframes if he aint doing anything dangerous, pot + tab= 40% heal

 

aaand tbh why the hell you have only 32k hp? uv been at this for week now? takes 1 day to get alot more..

Edit: and yeah exactly, that :D if u simply cant kill it with ur hp, get more!

Edited by Tohtori

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9 hours ago, Tohtori said:

you dont need block/counter for that, q/e ice tab/v are enough for everything, theres absolutely 0 skills which u cant avoid with those.

and if u mean you iFrame the whole room ice aoe, just dont, dont waste ur skills on that as u can just run to safe spot.

 

sure i have more than 40-50k hp but i "never" lose more than 10k, wudnt even lose that if i tried but theres no reason, only thing that hurts is if he throws me up which he manages to do maybe every 5th kill.

 

dont be afraid to take little damage, meaning dont waste ur iframes if he aint doing anything dangerous, pot + tab= 40% heal

 

aaand tbh why the hell you have only 32k hp? uv been at this for week now? takes 1 day to get alot more..

Edit: and yeah exactly, that :D if u simply cant kill it with ur hp, get more!

Well not really touching 50 content just yet i want to get my weapon past the 45 stage, plus kind of waiting on my friend to finish the storyline.  ONLY thing really making me lose atm is this

 

When he hits 30% or so, he starts using his " ultimate " no idea what name is, BUT first time its easily ice sheathed to counter. The problem is that, he will ALWAYS do it again before the cooldown is gone... usually it has 3-5 seconds left in that situation, its pretty much game over scenario and i have zero clues how to stop him from doing that, i dont know if i can iframe that it seems to be a grab, and i believe he's completely immune to damage during the wind up so cant stun him or grab him or anything so... i have zero clues on what to do in that scenario when ice sheath and statue are on cooldown... worse he quite often spams his root back to back on me in those cases i either pop statue or die...

 

i dont hate the boss but i think his ulti-spam needs to go away... it needs an extended cooldown to give classes that rely on a cooldown to avoid it a chance to beat him

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Oxygen   

Well my FM is 50 HM 4 with awakened siren bangle stage 10,awakened oath breaker bracelet stage 5,siren belt stage 10 and rest of accessories are infernal with full BSH soul shield and gems (green hexa AD ruby,green hexa life drain amethyst,sparkling penta AP diamond and brilliant hexa crit peridot which is personal preference) and he is pretty easy now..

I get him with frost build and at worst cases,try out that invincibility for 6 seconds potion that you can buy from the shop in 6th floor..

 

If you use invincibility potion+divine veil,it lets his melee attacks heal you because,divine veil heals you on  resists of any skills be they ranged or melee and same story if you have ice sheath on in divine veil..Those should give you more than enough survival as well as frost armor where you can put 1 point and stage 3 frost fury for life drain.

Don't forget phantom grip,free CC there and a free life drain. :)

 

DON'T attack him when he holds his hat,that's his counter and it does somewhat annoying CC if you trigger it.

Don't stand in same place for long vs him so he won't red AOE you which hurts so bad.

When he does resist and you see somewhat red fire around him,ice sheath ASAP and if you are in melee range to him when he starts resisting,do SS ASAP then ice sheath after as once he starts that resist combo,he would do a melee AOE that knocks you back+down and then charge to you doing an aerial combo that hurts then ending you with his sword after you drop CCed on ground.

If frost sheath is in CD,go for frost armor or invincibility potion or Iframe once he charges at you and avoid his melee range after.

Don't let him snare you with freeze,get out of it using Q,E or SS.

 

I use inferno instant cast version,meteors and short fuse to boost my damage abit more..

These are stuff you can use whether you are fire or frost..

 

However if you are frost,you can cast ice rain while moving,just do the specced frost Z and spam ice rain after while pressing A or D while navigating with mouse camera.You can jump while doing this as well.

I use stage 1 LMB for faster fire orbs and faster dual dragons and stage 1 RMB to keep him frozen.

Speccing impact to either stage 1 or 4 depending on what I need more,if i need more survival,I go for stage 1 for more CC but if I am confident and want more damage,I go for stage 4

 

Don't forget the damage buff from either dragon blaze or dragon frost.(depending on build being frost or fire)

 

I also experienced something which Idk if its a bug or what..Yesterday,while I was fighting Junghado,I did phantom grip then I accidentally did drain+Q or E at same time,drain was done but he wasn't dropped off my phantom grip..

If that can happen more often and if its not a bug,may be you can use it.

 

Final advice:every death versus him,you will learn him even more so its worth it..He is meant to be frustrating like that..

Hence,when you try him,consider it as training and seeing how far did you progress versus him and DON'T push it,he can get very frustrating if you try to forcibly get him..

Keep gearing up and retry,you will eventually get him but yea that still isn't an excuse to train on that fight harder (but within reasonable measures),,At some point,you will find him pretty easy and can even farm him over and over with ease for his hat or outfit etc.

First time I got him,I made it on time like when he was at 1 sec left for enrage..That was before I get my oath breaker bracelet.

 

I hope this info helps.

Edited by Oxygen

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Oxygen   
On 3/31/2016 at 0:16 AM, LordLokai said:

So FEW more days of attempting i can get him to 30% here is what i know and what i still don't get

 

1: root him: pointless... utterly pointless, junghado can ignore CC depending on what move he is in the middle of doing, certain stances such as his knock up WILL ignore/cancel any CC and he will dash and preform it anyway. The root also DOESN'T do anything beyond apply frozen which boosts damage, it doesnt stop him from running at you, dashing at you, or anything else. The chill also doesn't effect him... so everyone saying spam chill/root please stop suggesting that it does more then boost damage.

Rage timer isn't my issue, never has been its all his attacks you CANT avoid, he will hit you, he will damage you, and he has several ways to  root you in place... and his ice coil seems to trigger even if he's CC'd. I'm sorry but this guy's not fun or enjoyable, not even that he's hard its that he is basically difficult do to cheese. Most enemies have clear cut patterns to avoid, or ways to deflect things that always feel fair. The problem with jung is that he OFTEN feels super unfair. Those times he roots you, and you back step only to have him dash root you again, forcing you to blow your statue or die. Those times he does his insta gib twice in a row... people that say he's easy are full of shit. He's not easy... he's cheap and full of cheese... i have not seen ANY bosses are as cheap and full of cheap moves are nigh unavoidable as this guy. Iframes don't matter, he simply has attacks will always hit you no matter how fast your reflexes are...

Regarding your first point,freeze doesn't prevent his charge yep but it keeps him in his place till he charges so if he isn't frozen he will keep moving towards you 24/7 but if you have him frozen in between his charges,you can move abit less and calm him down for a while..

Not to mention that having freeze debuff on him isn't only good for extra damage but also for stage 1 impact constant stuns which screw him over and proves to be very good if you have problems surviving vs him.

 

Regarding rage timer,for me rage timer has been the issue while survival was hardly any issue for me..It was easy to survive vs him because as much as he can damage you,he can also heal you up as fast just if you use right skills at right time..Secret lies in his fast attacks either taking life fast or giving it back even faster.

 

Also having abit more evasion tends to screw many of his CCs up and sometimes even his aerial and same goes for most bosses who CC and aerial like Raijin and Fujin where evading their CC,completely screws it up for them.

As much as Eva has an advantage for FM though,it has one or 2 disadvantages and one of those is that ice sheath won't be triggered on if you evade the attack.

 

I believe you were suffering from survival issue rather than timer because,you were using a burn build,right?

If so,then it would make abit more sense.

 

For me,on 45 patch and when I still had no oath breaker bracelet,I could get him down to like 15% hp and then he would enrage and I still survive np,sometimes probably till his timer hits -20 or -40 but sadly once he enraged,he became invincible for good.

Edited by Oxygen

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On 3/29/2016 at 2:33 PM, Tsuchiryu said:

As I said, anicanceling is my biggest roadblock in DPS efficiency. I know a Destroyer that's good at it can beat Junghado with worse gear. I have next to no other issues dealing with the guy besides that, except maybe for being a bit overzealous with how often I CC. Doesn't help I just heard he uses red AOE iframe more often if you CC too much. Dunno if that's just with FM or in general.

A tip for dest, dont use LMB for your ani-cancel, use R(default is same skill as LMB) and RMB, as the game engine only checks mouseclicks every ~200ms if the mouse is not moving, which makes it a nightmare for dest to only use mousebuttons.

 

It wont be a perfect ani-cancel, but it is an acceptable one for just mashing R and RMB, and far better than either a spotty or nonexistant ani-cancel.

 

Abuse your grab to give your CC time to refresh, you can pretty much permaCC him with a proper rotation of knockdowns, charges, knee, and grabs, then just C-move or shield his iframe move when he does the charge.

 

 

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