BlackstarSoul

[Question] How to beat Force Masters? (looking for tips and tricks)

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Hiya!!

First of all, I'm not a good PvP-er, so I'm looking for helpful tips to improve my PvP knowledge and hopefully my skills will bump up a little! Mostly doing PvP for the dailies.

 

I'd like to know how to improve my win rate against FM's on my SUM (~1700, EU) and WL (~1600, EU), I know WL has a small chance of winning against "good" FMs, but I shouldn't struggle against FM as a SUM. From what I've read it should be an equal match-up.

 

Some things I do notice about myself is that:

  1. I get frustrated when the FMs kite me. so I tend to use my escapes quite fast to "catch up" with the FM in terms of damage and distance. 
  2. When they are using on of their resists skills, I will probably use one skill or CC before I noticed it.
  3. I get rooted and the FM can get free hits on me without being punished.
  4. Most matches against FM are quite short, but when they are longer then I see that they've probably used most their CDs and then I can burst them down since they're squishy.
  5. I've no idea how to turn the match into my favor (baiting CDs etc.?)

 

Basically I'm a PvP noob against FMs and maybe other classes, but they don't bother me as much.

 

Any advice or insight are most welcome! :)

Edited by BlackstarSoul

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Lurkios   

FMs can be one of your easiest match ups.

 

Your list:

  1. Don't take the bait. They're range isn't any better than yours, and your cat can keep up a bit of damage while you hang back (point in Q if you're getting kited for the regen).
  2. It happens, E the cat, get behind them and wait.
  3. Pedal storm should be up if they're not kncoked down or rooted. If it isn't, seed shroud.
  4. Yep - seed shroud helps there too, get them to blow the CDs on nothing.
  5. Get close. It makes it hard for them to target you over the cat - they'll miss a few essential CDs to the cat, then you do your thing. Seed shrouding and waiting for them to get nervous and hit the cat works as well.

 

TIPS:

1. Put 2 points into pedal storm and keep it up when the FM isn't rooted. They cannot damage you inside of it and they give you a ton of health of they try.

2. Time your root > knockdown (use bomb) > cat grapple (put 2 points in grapple for a longer hold and defense pen). When you don't have pedal storm up, they should be down.

3. If the FM is in ice E your cat and stop hitting them, they're regenerating health.

4. Stay behind them when they're rooted. They can still cast forward, they can still do damage.

5. Seed shroud is your best friend, put 3 points into the shield tree. They're almost as mana starved as you, and it removes the focus cost having 3 points. Let them blow their focus and then root. If they hit you, stay invisible until pedal storm is up - if not, enjoy the shield.

Edited by Lurkios

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Ra9eQuit   
2 hours ago, Lurkios said:

FMs can be one of your easiest match ups.

 

Your list:

  1. Don't take the bait. They're range isn't any better than yours, and your cat can keep up a bit of damage while you hang back (point in Q if you're getting kited for the regen).
  2. It happens, E the cat, get behind them and wait.
  3. Pedal storm should be up if they're not kncoked down or rooted. If it isn't, seed shroud.
  4. Yep - seed shroud helps there too, get them to blow the CDs on nothing.
  5. Get close. It makes it hard for them to target you over the cat - they'll miss a few essential CDs to the cat, then you do your thing. Seed shrouding and waiting for them to get nervous and hit the cat works as well.

 

TIPS:

1. Put 2 points into pedal storm and keep it up when the FM isn't rooted. They cannot damage you inside of it and they give you a ton of health of they try.

2. Time your root > knockdown (use bomb) > cat grapple (put 2 points in grapple for a longer hold and defense pen). When you don't have pedal storm up, they should be down.

3. If the FM is in ice E your cat and stop hitting them, they're regenerating health.

4. Stay behind them when they're rooted. They can still cast forward, they can still do damage.

5. Seed shroud is your best friend, put 3 points into the shield tree. They're almost as mana starved as you, and it removes the focus cost having 3 points. Let them blow their focus and then root. If they hit you, stay invisible until pedal storm is up - if not, enjoy the shield.

To be honest, FM is Summoner's worst match up (aside from Destroyer), and a good FM will know how to outplay everything you just talked about. Grab you out of Pedal Storm, Snowball your Seed Shroud, E/Q the snare, Divine Veil cancer resists for life, and dont forget about their damage being like 3 times as high as yours unless grabbed. There is really not a lot you can do. Whether the Sum dies or the cat and if the Sum doesnt abuse targeting they really cant win. Abuse targeting is cheeky asf. But good FMs can outplay that too. The only thing that comes to my mind is catching them while they have no grab escape and no Divine Veil, that would probably be the only way to really outplay a FM, but your chances are low.

-Ra9eQuit

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dmoe33   

Use ur cat and watch it carefully, sometimes i jus burst down cat when i feel like it and if ur not careful ur cat can be toast. Use petal storm wisely it blocks all atts except for a few mainly grab if u get grabbed make sure ur cat is ready to break u out immediately and run directly back into the storm. Take note of when they use their tab and ss cause if they out of their tab and u get a cat grapple the games over. Control ur cat well make sure ur not putting it in to much danger use ur seed shroud effectivly and remember sunflower goes through veil 

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Sexifier   
1 hour ago, Ra9eQuit said:

To be honest, FM is Summoner's worst match up (aside from Destroyer), and a good FM will know how to outplay everything you just talked about. Grab you out of Pedal Storm, Snowball your Seed Shroud, E/Q the snare, Divine Veil cancer resists for life, and dont forget about their damage being like 3 times as high as yours unless grabbed. There is really not a lot you can do. Whether the Sum dies or the cat and if the Sum doesnt abuse targeting they really cant win. Abuse targeting is cheeky asf. But good FMs can outplay that too. The only thing that comes to my mind is catching them while they have no grab escape and no Divine Veil, that would probably be the only way to really outplay a FM, but your chances are low.

-Ra9eQuit

From what i've experienced so far summoner vs FM is a equal match up. you both have so much heal and defenses against eachother it all depends on who makes the most mistakes. In a perfectly played match it should end in a time-out draw. FM will try to counter petal storm with a grab, which can be countered again by any of the cat's cc to stop the grab right away. FM can't really avoid triggering seed shroud as SM can just time seed shroud when the FM projectile is in mid air. Between seed shroud, 3 cat cc, and petal storm I'm able to survive most FM's bs. How FM avoids damage from summoner is the anti projectile shield obviously, then the iceblock + heal, most importantly the endless roots so you can never face the FM to properly target. I was able to take a game off Madoshi in a spar, but lost 2, which is fine since I don't consider myself a top 10 summoner.

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JayMagic   
4 hours ago, Sexifier said:

From what i've experienced so far summoner vs FM is a equal match up. you both have so much heal and defenses against eachother it all depends on who makes the most mistakes. In a perfectly played match it should end in a time-out draw. FM will try to counter petal storm with a grab, which can be countered again by any of the cat's cc to stop the grab right away. FM can't really avoid triggering seed shroud as SM can just time seed shroud when the FM projectile is in mid air. Between seed shroud, 3 cat cc, and petal storm I'm able to survive most FM's bs. How FM avoids damage from summoner is the anti projectile shield obviously, then the iceblock + heal, most importantly the endless roots so you can never face the FM to properly target. I was able to take a game off Madoshi in a spar, but lost 2, which is fine since I don't consider myself a top 10 summoner.

Yup I agree here. For FM vs Summoner, if BOTH play their best and have equal levels of skill, timing and patience the match should be a time-draw. Else its about who makes the most mistakes (or lags the most... cuz i mean ... come on .. the arena lags hard lol ) 

 

5 hours ago, dmoe33 said:

Use ur cat and watch it carefully, sometimes i jus burst down cat when i feel like it and if ur not careful ur cat can be toast. Use petal storm wisely it blocks all atts except for a few mainly grab if u get grabbed make sure ur cat is ready to break u out immediately and run directly back into the storm. Take note of when they use their tab and ss cause if they out of their tab and u get a cat grapple the games over. Control ur cat well make sure ur not putting it in to much danger use ur seed shroud effectivly and remember sunflower goes through veil 

This is also a good point, a lot of summoners I fight always leave their cats to be fire blasted and burnt to death  by my FM rotations, and when that cat is gone the true test of a summoner's skills come into play. For me I have also fought some summoners who are able to time seed shroud and their roots well enough to make me become a bit impatient and they end up getting my health low enough to get a final root and sunflower + doom n gloom off on me to win the match, this is also my fault of course. 

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mihwK   
On 28.3.2016 at 4:32 PM, BlackstarSoul said:

 I know WL has a small chance of winning against "good" FMs, but I shouldn't struggle against FM as a SUM. From what I've read it should be an equal match-up.

This is not an even match up, I would rather play against KFM/Dest than play FMs on my Summoner. Saying that means something... I'm at 2000+ Plat and I can't win vs any FM for the life of me.

 

They have:

- Massive DPS

- Massive Burst

- Massive CC

- Massive Heal (Yes, have you seen them heal? Like wtf, they aren't lacking in healing at all, they can easily go on par with a Sum.)

- Massive Defensives

- Mobile as fk

- Grab

- Massive counter against invis ppl.

 

THE ONLY THING FMs can't do, is have a pet. Besides the pet, FMs have literally everything and they are good at everything aswel. Like wtf is this, what exactly are FMs bad at?

 

I don't really get this, ppl are crying about Summoners beeing overpowered. Good accepted. Why not FMs? This class(FM) is "winning Tournaments", not Summoners, there is a reason for that. Against Destroyers and KFMs, which counter you, you can still SEE you might have won that fight. Against FMs it's the most one sided shit ever, they couldn't be more overpowered. Yes, literally *cricket*ing overpowered, how is a ranged class god at everything. Ask everyone on a higher rating, they will hate playing FMs more than playing Sums. Someone asked this question on Reddit, FM was the most mentioned class in there, there is a reason for that.

 

I went 40 5 last season, and winning against these Plat+ FMs is impossible. The fight NEVER goes in a way where I'm like, oh if I did that diffrently I would have won. It's so fking one sided it's the most annoying shit ever. I stopped playing 1v1 for the entire season after those losses, I can't deal with this overpowered shit, it couldn't be a more unfair matchup. Not a single matchup in the game is this one sided where you literally have no chance to win. I'm not the best obvsly, but I'm not exactly the worst Sum you will ever see.

 

These fights aren't over fast, they are long fights where you already know he will have the upper hand in the end based on his entire tool kit. They have literally everything.

 

Can you grab ppl out of their defensives as a Sum? FMs can.

Can you take players out of stealth easily with a laser beam when ever you want without a CD? FMs can.

Can you CC players like a KFM/Dest, while beeing ranged, while having Summoner level healing? FMs can.

Can you literally snare like a god? FMs can.

Can you play 3v3 and tag in and ICE your friend out of everything, saving him where he would die if you were ANY of the other classes? FMs can.

Can you tag in, have someone grab a player and 100 0 him as an FM? oh wait, you can just grab him yourself and keep him in the meteor rain. FMs can.

 

The class is insanely broken atm and needs a serious nerf. Their damage potential combined with their healing/defensives and utility is complete bat shit insane. No one gives a fk how hard a class is, the goal is to have an equal field.

 

Look at the entire WL vs FM matchup, how *cricket*ing stupid is that? Rock Paper Scissors is no argument, this is an eSport, you can't fking design it in a way where some classes 100% win against others. 

 

You could put the worlds greatest WL against the greatest FM, the FM will ALWAYS win, he will literally roll the floor with the WL.

 

You can't tell me Sum are so much more overpowered than FMs, it's a joke to say that. If Sums are OP, I accept, it's time for these FMs to face reality. They are nothing less than OP aswel., Sum is a very strong class and we can't do everything, they literally have a tool kit to fulfill anything. They don't have a Pet, they don't have a group buff, but everything else they have and they are very good at it aswel. <- To make up for this they have the best defensive group buff in the game, gj man, very amazing class design.

 

Oh did I forget something?

 

FMs are #1 DPS in PvE aswel.

FMs can freeze the entire party and literally make every run better and faster too.

FMs are the safest class to be in SSP, having the best DPS helps with prestige points too.

They are hands down kings in the offensive and defensive department.

Given how this game is designed, they aren't squishy or easy to kill either. FMs can tank easily, since the game wants every class to be able to survive on it's own. So they have no draw backs at all, you don't need a tank or a healer in this game = just making sure the FM kids can't come in here and be like "boohoo having aggro is so bad".

 

Edit:

 

Look at these suggestions, if you get grabbed just run back. Reality looks diffrent:

If he grabs you, he throws you into the opposite direction. Then he start to snare and CC you, you are dreaming if you think you will get into your petal storm ever again before it expires. If he does his blue orb thingy, which is pretty much petal storm, you can't do the same thing to him, funny how that works isn't it.

 

Then this, just made my day:

"  when that cat is gone the true test of a summoner's skills come into play. "

My cat never really dies against an FM, but let's pretend it does. Look at this comment, this is an FM talking.

If the Cat dies, it's time for the Summoner to show his Skills.

If that *cricket*ing Cat dies the game is over if you aren't low enough in HP to die, wtf true skills, Sum is a Class designed around the Pet.

Pet+Sum = 1 Class, the stupid Pet isn't a class on it's own, if that Pet dies he's a sitting duck to be roasted.

If you remove the Pet, Summoners are half the class you FMs are. The Cat has our iframes, heals, our oh shit moment rescues, our CC. The Cat is carrying the Skills you have on your own. It's 1 class divided into 2 parts pet+sum.

 

Ra9eQuit has put it into diffrent words a couple comments up. You are not supposed to win this matchup, this is free elo for the FM if he's good enough. He has answeres to everything you do, but as you can see you can't do the same thing to him. Plus he has way more DPS than you outside of grapple.

 

Sums do DPS in PvE because of Overflow stacks, you don't get these in PvP. FMs don't need to build up DPS like that. It's impossible for Sums to get to those 5 Overflow stacks. Your damage is crippled hard in arena compared to the DMG you do in PvE. 

To get those 5 stacks he needs to cast 10 Sunflowers and have every second flower(the stack giving flower) hit while you have Doom N bloom  on you, or while you stand in Briar, since otherwise you don't get stacks, it's really impossible to get to 5 with requirements like these.

Edited by mihwK

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Zerecas   

That's why you have TWO mobile resist status skills against ranged in the first place? FM do their CC, your cat does your CC and you did your slow and rooting.

 

Talk about FM, went to talk about massive heal.

Massive heal is the last thing you should talk about.

30% HP recovery for 3 minutes cooldown or 10% HP recovery for 1 minute cooldown.

If you're recklessly spamming your range skills onto FM's barrier (veil), then you are at fault. That barrier do not heal much in the first place.

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JayMagic   
3 hours ago, mihwK said:

This is not an even match up, I would rather play against KFM/Dest than play FMs on my Summoner. Saying that means something... I'm at 2000+ Plat and I can't win vs any FM for the life of me.

 

They have:

- Massive DPS

- Massive Burst

- Massive CC

- Massive Heal (Yes, have you seen them heal? Like wtf, they aren't lacking in healing at all, they can easily go on par with a Sum.)

- Massive Defensives

- Mobile as fk

- Grab

- Massive counter against invis ppl.

 

THE ONLY THING FMs can't do, is have a pet. Besides the pet, FMs have literally everything and they are good at everything aswel. Like wtf is this, what exactly are FMs bad at?

 

I don't really get this, ppl are crying about Summoners beeing overpowered. Good accepted. Why not FMs? This class(FM) is "winning Tournaments", not Summoners, there is a reason for that. Against Destroyers and KFMs, which counter you, you can still SEE you might have won that fight. Against FMs it's the most one sided shit ever, they couldn't be more overpowered. Yes, literally *cricket*ing overpowered, how is a ranged class god at everything. Ask everyone on a higher rating, they will hate playing FMs more than playing Sums. Someone asked this question on Reddit, FM was the most mentioned class in there, there is a reason for that.

 

I went 40 5 last season, and winning against these Plat+ FMs is impossible. The fight NEVER goes in a way where I'm like, oh if I did that diffrently I would have won. It's so fking one sided it's the most annoying shit ever. I stopped playing 1v1 for the entire season after those losses, I can't deal with this overpowered shit, it couldn't be a more unfair matchup. Not a single matchup in the game is this one sided where you literally have no chance to win. I'm not the best obvsly, but I'm not exactly the worst Sum you will ever see.

 

These fights aren't over fast, they are long fights where you already know he will have the upper hand in the end based on his entire tool kit. They have literally everything.

 

Can you grab ppl out of their defensives as a Sum? FMs can.

Can you take players out of stealth easily with a laser beam when ever you want without a CD? FMs can.

Can you CC players like a KFM/Dest, while beeing ranged, while having Summoner level healing? FMs can.

Can you literally snare like a god? FMs can.

Can you play 3v3 and tag in and ICE your friend out of everything, saving him where he would die if you were ANY of the other classes? FMs can.

Can you tag in, have someone grab a player and 100 0 him as an FM? oh wait, you can just grab him yourself and keep him in the meteor rain. FMs can.

 

The class is insanely broken atm and needs a serious nerf. Their damage potential combined with their healing/defensives and utility is complete bat shit insane. No one gives a fk how hard a class is, the goal is to have an equal field.

 

Look at the entire WL vs FM matchup, how *cricket*ing stupid is that? Rock Paper Scissors is no argument, this is an eSport, you can't fking design it in a way where some classes 100% win against others. 

 

You could put the worlds greatest WL against the greatest FM, the FM will ALWAYS win, he will literally roll the floor with the WL.

 

You can't tell me Sum are so much more overpowered than FMs, it's a joke to say that. If Sums are OP, I accept, it's time for these FMs to face reality. They are nothing less than OP aswel., Sum is a very strong class and we can't do everything, they literally have a tool kit to fulfill anything. They don't have a Pet, they don't have a group buff, but everything else they have and they are very good at it aswel. <- To make up for this they have the best defensive group buff in the game, gj man, very amazing class design.

 

Oh did I forget something?

 

FMs are #1 DPS in PvE aswel.

FMs can freeze the entire party and literally make every run better and faster too.

FMs are the safest class to be in SSP, having the best DPS helps with prestige points too.

They are hands down kings in the offensive and defensive department.

Given how this game is designed, they aren't squishy or easy to kill either. FMs can tank easily, since the game wants every class to be able to survive on it's own. So they have no draw backs at all, you don't need a tank or a healer in this game = just making sure the FM kids can't come in here and be like "boohoo having aggro is so bad".

 

Edit:

 

Look at these suggestions, if you get grabbed just run back. Reality looks diffrent:

If he grabs you, he throws you into the opposite direction. Then he start to snare and CC you, you are dreaming if you think you will get into your petal storm ever again before it expires. If he does his blue orb thingy, which is pretty much petal storm, you can't do the same thing to him, funny how that works isn't it.

 

Then this, just made my day:

"  when that cat is gone the true test of a summoner's skills come into play. "

My cat never really dies against an FM, but let's pretend it does. Look at this comment, this is an FM talking.

If the Cat dies, it's time for the Summoner to show his Skills.

If that *cricket*ing Cat dies the game is over if you aren't low enough in HP to die, wtf true skills, Sum is a Class designed around the Pet.

Pet+Sum = 1 Class, the stupid Pet isn't a class on it's own, if that Pet dies he's a sitting duck to be roasted.

If you remove the Pet, Summoners are half the class you FMs are. The Cat has our iframes, heals, our oh shit moment rescues, our CC. The Cat is carrying the Skills you have on your own. It's 1 class divided into 2 parts pet+sum.

 

Ra9eQuit has put it into diffrent words a couple comments up. You are not supposed to win this matchup, this is free elo for the FM if he's good enough. He has answeres to everything you do, but as you can see you can't do the same thing to him. Plus he has way more DPS than you outside of grapple.

 

Sums do DPS in PvE because of Overflow stacks, you don't get these in PvP. FMs don't need to build up DPS like that. It's impossible for Sums to get to those 5 Overflow stacks. Your damage is crippled hard in arena compared to the DMG you do in PvE. 

To get those 5 stacks he needs to cast 10 Sunflowers and have every second flower(the stack giving flower) hit while you have Doom N bloom  on you, or while you stand in Briar, since otherwise you don't get stacks, it's really impossible to get to 5 with requirements like these.

Without your cat you can simply time your seed shroud well enough and stay away from the FM hitting you, use some DoT skills where possible and you still have a chance to win, and You are probably a better Summoner than some of the others I have fought who let their cats die so don't get so angry at my comments. I do understand that Sum Vs FM is a VERY VERY hard match up ... almost impossible to win for the summoner but you must understand that we have HUGE cool downs on those same Ice invulnerability skills you mentioned, If you see us with Divine Veil up DO NOT HIT US , just leave us there to heal the little bit of HP we get, you can easily take it back down with your DoTs. 

That's some advice I can give you right now and don't get me wrong I understand your argument but Sum vs FM isn't a sure loss...its just really hard and drawn out. 

 

Additionally: You haven't spoken about that bubble you have that both you and your cat gets which also HEALS YOU, and its cool down is less than or the same as FMs TAB ice block or Ice Sheath.

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XianRen   
9 hours ago, mihwK said:

This is not an even match up, I would rather play against KFM/Dest than play FMs on my Summoner. Saying that means something... I'm at 2000+ Plat and I can't win vs any FM for the life of me.

 

They have:

- Massive DPS

- Massive Burst

- Massive CC

- Massive Heal (Yes, have you seen them heal? Like wtf, they aren't lacking in healing at all, they can easily go on par with a Sum.)

- Massive Defensives

- Mobile as fk

- Grab

- Massive counter against invis ppl.

 

THE ONLY THING FMs can't do, is have a pet. Besides the pet, FMs have literally everything and they are good at everything aswel. Like wtf is this, what exactly are FMs bad at?

 

I don't really get this, ppl are crying about Summoners beeing overpowered. Good accepted. Why not FMs? This class(FM) is "winning Tournaments", not Summoners, there is a reason for that. Against Destroyers and KFMs, which counter you, you can still SEE you might have won that fight. Against FMs it's the most one sided shit ever, they couldn't be more overpowered. Yes, literally *cricket*ing overpowered, how is a ranged class god at everything. Ask everyone on a higher rating, they will hate playing FMs more than playing Sums. Someone asked this question on Reddit, FM was the most mentioned class in there, there is a reason for that.

 

I went 40 5 last season, and winning against these Plat+ FMs is impossible. The fight NEVER goes in a way where I'm like, oh if I did that diffrently I would have won. It's so fking one sided it's the most annoying shit ever. I stopped playing 1v1 for the entire season after those losses, I can't deal with this overpowered shit, it couldn't be a more unfair matchup. Not a single matchup in the game is this one sided where you literally have no chance to win. I'm not the best obvsly, but I'm not exactly the worst Sum you will ever see.

 

These fights aren't over fast, they are long fights where you already know he will have the upper hand in the end based on his entire tool kit. They have literally everything.

 

Can you grab ppl out of their defensives as a Sum? FMs can.

Can you take players out of stealth easily with a laser beam when ever you want without a CD? FMs can.

Can you CC players like a KFM/Dest, while beeing ranged, while having Summoner level healing? FMs can.

Can you literally snare like a god? FMs can.

Can you play 3v3 and tag in and ICE your friend out of everything, saving him where he would die if you were ANY of the other classes? FMs can.

Can you tag in, have someone grab a player and 100 0 him as an FM? oh wait, you can just grab him yourself and keep him in the meteor rain. FMs can.

 

The class is insanely broken atm and needs a serious nerf. Their damage potential combined with their healing/defensives and utility is complete bat shit insane. No one gives a fk how hard a class is, the goal is to have an equal field.

 

Look at the entire WL vs FM matchup, how *cricket*ing stupid is that? Rock Paper Scissors is no argument, this is an eSport, you can't fking design it in a way where some classes 100% win against others. 

 

You could put the worlds greatest WL against the greatest FM, the FM will ALWAYS win, he will literally roll the floor with the WL.

 

You can't tell me Sum are so much more overpowered than FMs, it's a joke to say that. If Sums are OP, I accept, it's time for these FMs to face reality. They are nothing less than OP aswel., Sum is a very strong class and we can't do everything, they literally have a tool kit to fulfill anything. They don't have a Pet, they don't have a group buff, but everything else they have and they are very good at it aswel. <- To make up for this they have the best defensive group buff in the game, gj man, very amazing class design.

 

Oh did I forget something?

 

FMs are #1 DPS in PvE aswel.

FMs can freeze the entire party and literally make every run better and faster too.

FMs are the safest class to be in SSP, having the best DPS helps with prestige points too.

They are hands down kings in the offensive and defensive department.

Given how this game is designed, they aren't squishy or easy to kill either. FMs can tank easily, since the game wants every class to be able to survive on it's own. So they have no draw backs at all, you don't need a tank or a healer in this game = just making sure the FM kids can't come in here and be like "boohoo having aggro is so bad".

 

Edit:

 

Look at these suggestions, if you get grabbed just run back. Reality looks diffrent:

If he grabs you, he throws you into the opposite direction. Then he start to snare and CC you, you are dreaming if you think you will get into your petal storm ever again before it expires. If he does his blue orb thingy, which is pretty much petal storm, you can't do the same thing to him, funny how that works isn't it.

 

Then this, just made my day:

"  when that cat is gone the true test of a summoner's skills come into play. "

My cat never really dies against an FM, but let's pretend it does. Look at this comment, this is an FM talking.

If the Cat dies, it's time for the Summoner to show his Skills.

If that *cricket*ing Cat dies the game is over if you aren't low enough in HP to die, wtf true skills, Sum is a Class designed around the Pet.

Pet+Sum = 1 Class, the stupid Pet isn't a class on it's own, if that Pet dies he's a sitting duck to be roasted.

If you remove the Pet, Summoners are half the class you FMs are. The Cat has our iframes, heals, our oh shit moment rescues, our CC. The Cat is carrying the Skills you have on your own. It's 1 class divided into 2 parts pet+sum.

 

Ra9eQuit has put it into diffrent words a couple comments up. You are not supposed to win this matchup, this is free elo for the FM if he's good enough. He has answeres to everything you do, but as you can see you can't do the same thing to him. Plus he has way more DPS than you outside of grapple.

 

Sums do DPS in PvE because of Overflow stacks, you don't get these in PvP. FMs don't need to build up DPS like that. It's impossible for Sums to get to those 5 Overflow stacks. Your damage is crippled hard in arena compared to the DMG you do in PvE. 

To get those 5 stacks he needs to cast 10 Sunflowers and have every second flower(the stack giving flower) hit while you have Doom N bloom  on you, or while you stand in Briar, since otherwise you don't get stacks, it's really impossible to get to 5 with requirements like these.

Because people legit think having the ability to indefinitely lock targets into a chilled/frozen state, maintain distance with multiple movement skills, have a huge heal, a giant bubble that negates a ton of ranged attacks, high dps, high burst, a stun with no cd (yes it requires them to rmb and press 1, but 1 has no focus cost and rmb can be maintained as long as they want so long as they use lmb sometimes), and a high damage aerial is balanced just because their juggle combo is really hard.

 

Don't worry though, I'm sure it will be even more fun when they can unlock chi bomb and chunk 3/4ths a hp bar every time they freeze a target.

Edited by XianRen

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Talinoth   

Now, if you want to hear from an actual Force Master about how to beat Force Masters, keep reading. I think some of these summoners are so salty about having a matchup that doesn't completely favour them that they think the FM is overpowered - this isn't true, they're just being outplayed. Summoner, KFM, Assassin and Blade Dancer players are higher in ranking on average than Force Masters are. There really aren't that many Force Masters up at the high levels, the ones that have made it are there because they're really good at what they do. But anyway;

 

1 - Play their own game better than they can - you have your own none-too-small share of snares and slows + five different forms of CC the cat can apply - the five-point-strike dash attack, the bomb, the sweep, the hammer strike, and the cat grapple. Landing any one of those first four cat abilities will force the FM to use one of their two escapes (or F backflip), and you can set up easier cat grapples if you're constantly snaring and slowing them. If you score two cat grapples in a row, you win because only their Tab can escape from cat pin.

To make it easier to land cat cc, consider liberal use of grasping vines + that insane briar patch slow. If the FM blows their dashes to get out of your slows/snares, that's a good thing, because from that point they need insane reflexes to Houdini their way out of the cat cc that will immediately follow.

 

2 - The Force Master wants to put  you under pressure but is in constant fear of hitting into your Seed Shroud (dandelion counter). It's a counter ability that really pisses us off because if we hit into it we lose ALL our progress we've made against you - chill stacks disappear. The best thing to do is NOT use it until a projectile is already incoming and then punish the FM for being trigger happy. This will create an atmosphere of paranoia, where the FM won't - can't - attack until they know they have a clear opening. In this way, you can attack the FM much more freely than the FM can attack you.

If you use Seed Shroud and you're still frozen, use your SS and that will break the freeze.

 

3 - Don't be a predictable moron. Every half-assed Summoner who instead of stomping me, got stomped themselves was beaten mainly because they were stupidly predictable. Using your cat's five-point-strike ability at the start of every match is easy to counter with E dash into Frost Sheath, and if you try to hammer strike me as soon as I come out of Frost Sheath I'll just break the ice early and dash away from or through your cat. Instead, if you force me into nasty situations where I don't know what your cat is going to do, or what YOU are going to do, I might end up taking lots of damage for free or having to blow one of my dashes

 

4 - Force Master vs Force Master matchups are all about shield management and not letting the other guy enjoy his shield, so we get fairly regular practice in throwing each other out of our protective fields. The usual counter to this is to use a secondary defensive ability like Frost Sheath or one of our dashes and we can i-frame Phantom Grip. You can too. If you know an FM will Phantom Grip you as soon as he humanly can when he sees you cast Petal Storm, have the cat follow him closely before casting, or use your Best Friend 5 second i-frame to block the grab.

Also note that if an FM is using the 16m grab (which might be harder to interrupt with a cat) then it's on the same cd - and in practice longer cd - than your own Petal Storm.

EDIT - To expand on this, if I use the 8m range grab it's on a 16sec cooldown, and will always be up when your Petal Storm is - but it's nowhere near as easy/flexible to use and requires me to put myself in serious danger. If I use the 16m version it's on a 24 second cooldown, and while it has more tactical flexibility it's not always up right when you cast Petal Storm.

If you see an FM use Phantom Grip for any reason OTHER than throwing you out of Petal Storm, that's actually the perfect time for you to use it. Without Phantom Grip we're utterly helpless to do any serious damage to somebody standing in a missile shield.

 

5 - Your cat can't charge anyone if it's chilled. If the Force Master has Frost Orbits (those little blue orbs that can be seen circling them after they use certain ice abilities), the cat will get 1 chill stack applied to it every time it tries to attack an FM. To cleanse the stacks, put your cat in turtle mode or Beckon it back to you, then send it out to charge again.

 

6 - Learn how to tech chase with your cat. If your cat hammer strikes me and forces me to F (Retreat) wait until I've landed on my feet and then use the leg sweep to knock me down on the floor. Wait a second to see if I'll Tab pre-emptively, and then cat pin me. I'll be forced to use Tab escape.

If you land another cat cc on me in the next 18-36 second time period, I'm just dead - use your Sunflower to burn me to ashes while I'm pinned by the cat.

 

7 - Divine Veil isn't overpowered as long as you don't use missile attacks and attack directly into it like a moron. It lasts for 15 seconds and has a 36 second cooldown, and it does NOT block Sunflower. Sunflower is an area effect attack, not a projectile, and completely ignores Divine Veil's missile protection.

 

8 - Divine Veil's 1% heals on hit have a unique property - they don't care whether you're actually standing inside the dome, or even hit by a ranged attack. Technically, whenever you resist an attack while the spell is in use, you get healed. This can be complemented by using the Q/E elemental dashes, Ice Armor, or Frost Sheath while Divine Veil is in effect to resist any attack and still get the heal.. Every tick of damage that is resisted will heal for 1% hp each. This includes your Briar Patch and Doom&Bloom. Do NOT use damage over time abilities against Force Master while Divine Veil is up or you will get countered like an idiot.

 

9 - As long as you respect the Force Master's abilities and don't play into their traps, you'll find that FM is just an average, even matchup, even advantageous for the Summoner in many cases. Also consider that if a Force Master is at 1900 rating and a Summoner is at 1900 rating, even if the class matchup is 50/50 the Force Master is more likely to win. This is because the Force Master has many more bad/even matchups than the Summoner does and is likely to be a much better player at the same rating.

Evidence for this is shown by the number of Force Masters in the ranking ladder (actually not very high) vs Summoners (lots and lots).

Edited by Talinoth

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