sasukekun21

P2w or not?

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Reyva   

Eh, I can see how some folks see it as p2w.  Lets take the most highly used case

 

Get a $1k paycheck from your job

Spend that $1k paycheck all on the currency exchanger (or through other means)

Upgrade gear + get whatevs else like skill books

 

Overall time spent = 0

 

And here is the other guy...lets just call him the dailies only guy

 

Gets a paycheck / or nothing but doesn't spend

Does dailies and I mean all of em (most profitable)

 

Overall time spent = Too much lol.  But you spent no $.  However, it will take them longer to upgrade all gear + whatevs else.

 

 

Logically, most people will associate this case as p2w by their definition of what p2w is to them.  Others will see it as pay to progress faster, but I find that a crock of **** personally.   They paid to win at something.  PvE?  Yeah, they did.  PvP?  Not talking about PvP here and if we were, no one on Poharan server at least does open world pvp since everyone plays cerulean :P.   Another un-releated fabulous topic.

 

With the introduction of people wanting specific AP requirements to do dungeons or join guilds, it introduces a new category of "p2w" which is simply by some to do what I said above lol.  Otherwise, you can't do dungeons.   Am I saying you can't do any dungeon period?  No I did not.  Always some nab group going to run it with ya lol.  Just the guy who bought all his/her crap with rl $ can do those dungeons quicker due to meeting their ap requirements or join that guild.

 

So in others mindset, p2w is just putting up stuff in the cash shop that would greatly benefit players who buy from cash shop.  You could think of this as a level 50 legendary weapon or fully upgraded accessories.  How about a level 50 soulshield max fused with the stats you want?  How about cash shop exclusive costumes with stats on them?  I could go on and on.  You can buy this with a click of a button and boom, done!  Most people....or at least old skool folks such as myself would definitely call this p2w lol.

 

However, the above statement can be reversed.  Simply just buy a bunch of gold and its done (excluding some of the stuff I said above).

 

Once again, I speak in the mindset of what others are thinking, especially those not giving a **** about coming to these forums and writing up essays or having discussions or the lurkers who just view the threads.  Only thing that wasn't in that mindset was when I said the p2pf is a crock of ****.  They are still paying to win at something regardless of how you think of it.  Also remember that no one knows how the cash shop will be the next year or the year after that.  Fanboys/girls can keep believing what they want though as I really don't care lol.  Cry more will ya.  Love your tears.

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Making your character more powerful by easily and instantly acquiring weapon upgrades with gold purchased with your Visa card = P2W. Period. I haven't seen a game that was MORE P2W in a very long time.

Edited by Alphashado

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P2W because of the currency exchanger? Really? Guess that goes for all games with such a feature and also with every game that has a cash shop that allows you to sell items from it on the broker. Which is.... every single game. Does that mean every game is P2W? Hmmm... oh...my gerd. Is life p2w? Uhhhhh?..

 

Scared.jpg

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Tomoyo   

You can pay to progress in PvE faster, so if you consider that P2W then sure. At the end of the day you'll be able to run easy dungeons just a biiit faster than everyone else earlier. Kudos.

 

However, YOUR GEAR DOES NOT MATTER IN ARENA PVP. So if PvP is your concern, you can't buy an advantage. :/

Edited by Tomoyo

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Gerbil   

As long as there's open world PvP and you can buy with cash resources to upgrade your gear, yeah it's pay to win.

 

You can go say however many times you want that arena has balanced stats but as long as you're forced to fight/kill other players in order to advance in PvE that's still called PVP.

1 hour ago, Himekami said:

This game is not p2w, but p2w is a choice.

That makes no sense whatsoever. It must have taken you a long time to come up with something that deep right? :)

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To me p2w implies that theres some sort of pay wall that f2p players can't cross (or can't cross without extreme difficulty), ie Exclusive legendaries in the cash shop, consumables that give you significant edge over your opponents in direct combat, tickets to dungeons with exlusive drops, etc.

 

Great deal of pay for convenience.

 

Pirate emblems are a bit P2W, as you can only farm 3/day as a player, especially if they are ncoin only.  Siren, from wheel/boss chest, so, thats convenience.

Quick revival charms, Master repair tools, and exlusive hongmoon foods are a bit P2W, besides being no where necessary at this stage of the game.

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Gerbil   

Not really. p2w generally refers to the fact that I can go right now and spend about 500-700$ and fully upgrade a weapon to anything I want. Then go in open world with my brand new weapon and easily kill players that haven't spent real money in this game and have been playing for 2 months.

 

Normally if you didn't have the siren tokens and the pirate emblems in the shop at least you'd hit the same wall as anyone else when upgrading. Yes you could still trade coins for gold and buy most of the stuff but you'd be at least forced to play a little bit. As it stands there's very little (probably a few weapons that are easily obtainable, like the purple Brighstone weapon) that prevent people from just buying their way trough the game.

 

But then again we all knew that the western release for this game was purely about money and NcSoft was always a greedy company so what can you do.

Edited by Gerbil

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Mild P2W, more of a pay-to-progress   faster, way faster than  a non paying players, and the  difference is from 1 day  for $$$ players  compared to months for NON $$$.

 

But I would say this to you:

 

 NOBODY WOULD COMPLAIN  THAT THE GAME IS PAY2WIN  IF THIS GAME HAD SOME KIND OF ECONOMY.

 

It is crazy expensive  to upgrade anything...   so yeah  the only reason  ppl  call it P2W are the crazy  "free  market"  prices, free market my ass when  you need to pay 12 gold to craft something... wtf  really what's the point...  MTS are crazy expensive  to  craft  and even more expensive  when  you buy them,   only to upgrade the gear  from infernal to  siren  costs you around ~ 200G ( more or less )    compared  to 1G or less you needed to get from hongmoon to infernal :))

 

.

Edited by TheHorror

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LiriC   

As someone stated... P2W .. is not the same as Pay to get the cool suit or stuff like that. no

P2W is when you have access to that UBER SUPER EXTRA MEGA GG WEAPON , and were a normal player would never have access OR he would but he would have to spend 1 year grinding the shit out of it.

 

I think that people complain just because it's very expensive to advance ... and it is....   only yesterday I found out how hard it is and how much grind you need to reach Breeze .. it's not easy people .. it's really not easy you need a lot of hard work to get it... and for people that play the game casual you are looking at an easy 2 months in farming for it . so yeah.

 

To reach  Pirate is easy if you play casual you get it in a month or two ( more or less two ).. to get at Breeze .. that's another story... and with money you can speed it up.. but it's not p2w... it's taking more time that's all .. but you get the same stats anyway in the end...   and for a hardcore guy that dose not work or just LOVES the game to "that level" ( there are not many anyway ) and sits at home and is sustained by parents and no social life.. . well .. I'm betting he can get the Breeze from pirate in less then a month.

Edited by LiriC

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The argument "you can get it all in your own time, therefore it's not P2W" is ridiculous. If you can use a VISA to BUY upgrades that make you more POWERFUL than someone else in ANY scenario, that is as P2W as P2W gets.

 

This game uses every trick in the book in order to strongly encourage people to take out their wallet at every corner. Yeah, you can get everything in the game as long as you grind for it, but life would be "oh so much easier" if you whip out that VISA card....... P2W.

 

Sorry. I've been playing MMOs since UO. I've seen them all. This is one of the most P2W games I've ever played.

 

 

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Fuz   
13 hours ago, Tomoyo said:

However, YOUR GEAR DOES NOT MATTER IN ARENA PVP. So if PvP is your concern, you can't buy an advantage. :/

Like the HM skill books?

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22 hours ago, Alphashado said:

Making your character more powerful by easily and instantly acquiring weapon upgrades with gold purchased with your Visa card = P2W. Period. I haven't seen a game that was MORE P2W in a very long time.

Aion another Ncsoft game lol.

Edited by 877567_1452550445

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fruitie   
On 29/03/2016 at 0:35 AM, Fuz said:

You guys really think it's not p2w?

http://eu-bns.ncsoft.com/ingame/bs/character/profile?c=mrmadness

As I said, mild P2W, but still has some degree of P2W mechanics.

I guess you're right. That person clearly won. What they 'won' I don't know. People got to pirate for free and content has been released at an accelerated rate, people will reach future top end gear too. So unless the grind increases to a ridiculous rate (the fact that there's no current legendary weapons shows that they're against that), then any complaints about p2w is really just going to be from jelly f2p kids. What happened to playing the game it was intended and work your way up? If it's so hard, why are you choosing to play an MMO?

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Lets Analyze it

Pay= money

to

Win=victory, dominance, 

 

Ok let's look back in history when this term is used its almost ALWAYS refering to some item on the item shop that directly buys power, ie an armor set only available in the item shop that gives direct stat boosts. Example, a helmet that gives +200 to all stats.

 

How does BNS handle it? well they have done a few things but essentially... they make money selling the following

1: consumeables: exp boost, and health regen and food 

2: Cosmetics: costumes

3: Services: name changes, appearance change ect

4: Tokens: tokens to buy old 45 stuff

5: keys, these help you skip the RNG on weapon boxes

 

What i can tell you is that #4 is a bit shadey, but i think its to help players skip past the 45 gear level and jump to current levels...however this said... is a big issue with this because

1: you need soulstones only available in game

2: you need transformation stones only available from crafters

 

So with all of that analyzed... can you buy power? sort of you can use cash shop to " skip " over some of the tedious grind, such as buying pirate/siren gear with tokens or skipping the RNG farm with keys. Can you DIRECTLY purchase items with stats? no the answer is no you can't. Despite people spouting P2W it simply not true, the break down is simple. This game is more Pay to Skip over some stuff, or make your grind less tedious. But you cant diectly buy power, even if YOU did buy the Siren Weapon... you still require soulstones, gold, and trans stones to upgrade... most it does is skip over some of the box grinding but that is it.

 

Verdict: no it isn't pay 2 win and people need to stop saying it is

 

Is the item shop shadey? damn right it is! forcing players to pay 20 dollars for a costume and to BREAK it down into cloth, for a CHANCE to get a random costume only to have the game laugh at you as it fails? you could spend 100 bucks and get nothing... fact they WEIGHTED the drop rates to force key sales? and sure i even am against the tokens BUT none of this makes it pay to win just annoying and greedy as *cricket*.

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3 minutes ago, LordLokai said:

Lets Analyze it

Pay= money

to

Win=victory, dominance, 

 

Ok let's look back in history when this term is used its almost ALWAYS refering to some item on the item shop that directly buys power, ie an armor set only available in the item shop that gives direct stat boosts. Example, a helmet that gives +200 to all stats.

 

How does BNS handle it? well they have done a few things but essentially... they make money selling the following

1: consumeables: exp boost, and health regen and food 

2: Cosmetics: costumes

3: Services: name changes, appearance change ect

4: Tokens: tokens to buy old 45 stuff

5: keys, these help you skip the RNG on weapon boxes

 

What i can tell you is that #4 is a bit shadey, but i think its to help players skip past the 45 gear level and jump to current levels...however this said... is a big issue with this because

1: you need soulstones only available in game

2: you need transformation stones only available from crafters

 

So with all of that analyzed... can you buy power? sort of you can use cash shop to " skip " over some of the tedious grind, such as buying pirate/siren gear with tokens or skipping the RNG farm with keys. Can you DIRECTLY purchase items with stats? no the answer is no you can't. Despite people spouting P2W it simply not true, the break down is simple. This game is more Pay to Skip over some stuff, or make your grind less tedious. But you cant diectly buy power, even if YOU did buy the Siren Weapon... you still require soulstones, gold, and trans stones to upgrade... most it does is skip over some of the box grinding but that is it.

 

Verdict: no it isn't pay 2 win and people need to stop saying it is

 

Is the item shop shadey? damn right it is! forcing players to pay 20 dollars for a costume and to BREAK it down into cloth, for a CHANCE to get a random costume only to have the game laugh at you as it fails? you could spend 100 bucks and get nothing... fact they WEIGHTED the drop rates to force key sales? and sure i even am against the tokens BUT none of this makes it pay to win just annoying and greedy as *cricket*.

And this is completely wrong. You cant directly purchase items with money? Buy 5000 gold from currency exchange and then you can get all the best gear you want.....

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Fatalito   

I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry, but from an understanding, pay2win is when the cash shop sells stuff that's stronger that what you can get through grinding. Most of the cash shop consists of cosmetics and items you can find in game like emblems and keys. If anything, the consumable buffs sold there could be called p2w but they also show up in daily dash or given through level up surveys so everyone has them already (albeit in limited supply) without spending a dime.

 

As for progress in this game, opinions vary. Some say it's difficult to progress all the way to end game while others say it's extremely easy. So only way for you to know is to experience it yourself. Play the game for awhile without paying anything and see how you handle yourself.

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10 minutes ago, Selfcontrol said:

And this is completely wrong. You cant directly purchase items with money? Buy 5000 gold from currency exchange and then you can get all the best gear you want.....

no i'm not wrong... the item shop is not pay 2 win, the currency exchange is a neccsary evil... do the math if a player is seriously willing to throw 200-300 dollars at the game for ONE tier level... more power to them.

 

9 minutes ago, Fatalito said:

I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry, but from an understanding, pay2win is when the cash shop sells stuff that's stronger that what you can get through grinding. Most of the cash shop consists of cosmetics and items you can find in game like emblems and keys. If anything, the consumable buffs sold there could be called p2w but they also show up in daily dash or given through level up surveys so everyone has them already (albeit in limited supply) without spending a dime.

 

As for progress in this game, opinions vary. Some say it's difficult to progress all the way to end game while others say it's extremely easy. So only way for you to know is to experience it yourself. Play the game for awhile without paying anything and see how you handle yourself.

yep pay2win specifically assumes that you can buy additional power from the item shop itself, which you cant... though above poster is correct YOU could technically buy your way past a tier if you were filthy stinking rich...

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Himekami   
23 hours ago, Gerbil said:

As long as there's open world PvP and you can buy with cash resources to upgrade your gear, yeah it's pay to win.

 

You can go say however many times you want that arena has balanced stats but as long as you're forced to fight/kill other players in order to advance in PvE that's still called PVP.

That makes no sense whatsoever. It must have taken you a long time to come up with something that deep right? :)

Spend time or spend cash:)

Edited by Himekami

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tsubo   

lets break it down

our money fed ino Currency exchange(gold)

=

access to mats

 

you guys see the pattern here right? if u can get the materials needed to max out your gear with money then its at the very least. pay to progress 

 

in PVP arena it pretty much means nothing. but in PVE/PVP outside of arena you will have a clear advantage.

 

legendary chest example...(waaaaay down the road)

Required Materials Summary:
5000 Gold
3 South Kingdom of Heaven Gold
50 Po Hwa Lan Perfume
100 Minnow Muhon, 50 Wind Muhon, 50 Imperial’s Muhon
100 Luna Stone Powder
800 Soul Stone
100 Muhon Powder

 

granted. these type of things should be hard to get. EXTREMELY HARD!

but with access to gold, simply uploading cash. those players will have a distinct advantage here

 

most players id say go the F2P route but players that choose that P2W... gad help us! 

 

maybe right now the game isnt that much of a P2W. With more valuable gear coming out. it surely will

 

 

 

 

 

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I am starting to look at it as pay to win with this last update. Act 1-3 grindfest, act 4 drip drip drip fest and I am hating it.

 

 

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