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Why does FM do well in tournaments but so few in arena diamonds?


Abonde

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Like seeing Jaesung, they know the class fully inside and out and know how to exploit weaknesses in other classes. I'm Diamond for NA server and know the combos very well but its more of a situational awareness when it comes to FM. In PvE, yeah we blow shit up, but PvP you have to know the opponents class as well. That's really what gives you a jump on your opponent. Make them burn their escapes and they're yours to beat and know when to burn yours as well. It's not about mastering the class imo, but more of knowing the opponents class and what they can and can't do.

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To me   Jaesung isn't all that great, you got to remember all other version China, korea etc etc are allowed to use Macro''s and 3rd party software to chain their skills....

We arent allowed to do that on NA servers.

 

Go on   Jaesung  youtube page go back a good  bit when NA servers came out.

 Jaesung tried to play pvp but wasnt doing so well he  moaned and whined that NA doesnt allow  Macro's

 

Seen quite a few KR players come to NA thinking they wipe the floor with people but when they realized macros and 3rd party software for skills was getting them banned.

They went back to their main servers in KR

 

Also   Jaesung  newest ranked #1 pvp FM bomb build, if you watch him all his attack just listen to his mech keyboard he only taps 1 key to do all his skill in a rotation at set times then last  key to build bomb up....Then look at him trying to do it on NA server he hitting a lot of keys like a frantic scared player.

So what did he do he quit playing all his  best char cause he  couldn't use Macros or 3rd party software here and  he went and  made a destroyer.

 

Also another video he did  he used his  macro's and software to try and boost his ranking on NA then got dropped from game, he thought he got banned for using the 3rd party software  but after 20 mins he realized servers went down  for maint....But  to me  he should  have been banned since  he has videos of  him using  the programs he even admits he just going to use them for  1 day  on NA servers......Think the video is called    Jaesung  banned NA server

 

So my opinion is they are not skilled players they are Script Kiddies

 

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On a side note, the next world tournament over there, officials have decided that 3rd party programs and macros  will not be allowed

Everyone will be supplied  a standard mech keyboard and  standard  2 button mouse

 

So when it begins  we will see who really has skills

 

It was decided due to them wanting to include NA/EU servers to the tournament in the future...But knowing that the biggest player base is over seas they may get their wish to keep using the programs which will force ncsoft to let NA players use them....Cause if not there wouldn't be a point in NA trying to go against them in any tournament

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31 minutes ago, BULLSHIT said:

On a side note, the next world tournament over there, officials have decided that 3rd party programs and macros  will not be allowed

Everyone will be supplied  a standard mech keyboard and  standard  2 button mouse

 

So when it begins  we will see who really has skills

 

It was decided due to them wanting to include NA/EU servers to the tournament in the future...But knowing that the biggest player base is over seas they may get their wish to keep using the programs which will force ncsoft to let NA players use them....Cause if not there wouldn't be a point in NA trying to go against them in any tournament

wtf they knowingly allowed macros in tournaments in the past????? that's like cs:go letting u wall/aimbot

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6 hours ago, BULLSHIT said:

On a side note, the next world tournament over there, officials have decided that 3rd party programs and macros  will not be allowed

Everyone will be supplied  a standard mech keyboard and  standard  2 button mouse

 

So when it begins  we will see who really has skills

 

It was decided due to them wanting to include NA/EU servers to the tournament in the future...But knowing that the biggest player base is over seas they may get their wish to keep using the programs which will force ncsoft to let NA players use them....Cause if not there wouldn't be a point in NA trying to go against them in any tournament

Wait, what? Macros were ALLOWED in TOURNAMENTS?! AND THEY CALLED THIS AN ESPORT?

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3 hours ago, Aerroon said:

Wait, what? Macros were ALLOWED in TOURNAMENTS?! AND THEY CALLED THIS AN ESPORT?

omg... lol

hey! another idea!

let them add API to read class info, last used skill and positioning... then we will have esport in programming, not gaming.
And where is the "evil grin" emoticon?!

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This is their saying about macros:

 

Macro usage
Per se, it is not forbid. They are used for repetitive task, and on PvP they are used for things like anicancel and maybe some little combo where it is possible. Used a lot on PvE. Even when forbid, there is no way to understand if you were using a macro or you just play that way (please notice about difference between macro usage and cheating: they are two different things).

 

They have also said  Macro's will be allowed up till the  semi finals after that they will be blocked from using same has it was last year.

Like I tell people you watch the videos of them ranking up they only hitting 1-2 buttons....but come semi or final matches the macros are disabled  and you see them struggling and tapping keys like crazy to win

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Just looked up KR rules on Esport, it says key remapping and marcros  are not forbided but they think people should  only  use key remapping to make it easier on the player  1 command per key, but cant really tell if someone is  setting  more then 1 bind per a key

.

Think this is the reason they saying this year  at semi finals and finals  only a standard keyboard and 2 button mouse will be used

 

Also there is  many  many topic  on their forums about  facing NA/EU in future tournaments  even NCsoft  wants in on the action

But NcSoft forbids and  marcro or keybinds  to mouses etc etc

 

So ya they want to face us with their  marco's up till semi finals, since we arent allowed to use them

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29 minutes ago, BULLSHIT said:

They have also said  Macro's will be allowed up till the  semi finals after that they will be blocked from using same has it was last year.

Like I tell people you watch the videos of them ranking up they only hitting 1-2 buttons....but come semi or final matches the macros are disabled  and you see them struggling and tapping keys like crazy to win

lol... this makes ABSOLUTELY no sense! I mean... how is this even possible to consider?! Wat????

 

So the potential winners - not using macros - will fail reaching  finals, because, come on, if you can perform Jaensung's double air combo with ALL dps "filler" skills... well... I am not pvp pro (yet!), but I have good idea what Im doing and still to do the double air combo I have to skip at least half of the LC-RC fillers.

And on finals we will see pathetic loosers, because KNOWING what skills to perform does not mean one CAN performe them, if not trained for hundreds and hundreds of matches.

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19 minutes ago, MerlinBG said:

lol... this makes ABSOLUTELY no sense! I mean... how is this even possible to consider?! Wat????

 

So the potential winners - not using macros - will fail reaching  finals, because, come on, if you can perform Jaensung's double air combo with ALL dps "filler" skills... well... I am not pvp pro (yet!), but I have good idea what Im doing and still to do the double air combo I have to skip at least half of the LC-RC fillers.

And on finals we will see pathetic loosers, because KNOWING what skills to perform does not mean one CAN performe them, if not trained for hundreds and hundreds of matches.

Well I just gave the rules for the Esport, NcSoft wants in the the world of Esport....but its ok for them to use such programs till the semi finals,  but not us.

NcSoft will have to make changes to the  rules on macros and keybinding  for NA/EU servers to be able to use also

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16 minutes ago, WADofMEAT2 said:

Well I just gave the rules for the Esport, NcSoft wants in the the world of Esport....but its ok for them to use such programs till the semi finals,  but not us.

NcSoft will have to make changes to the  rules on macros and keybinding  for NA/EU servers to be able to use also

The critique was not targeted towards you, sorry if this came otherwise :)


It is very much targeted to whoever came up with this stupid rule. I mean - it is NOT OK to use macros till semi finals. Either completely allow them, or completely forbid them.
The only outcome of such rule will be, that the players not using macros will fail to reach finals, and the rest will then bash their forheads on the kbd because they have zero experience playing without macros.

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Exactly that's the prolem, right there.
No one from NA/EU will reach finals, coz no matter how fast you are, macros are faster.

And at finals, asia players will play funny, coz if they only use macros, there is no way to be skilled without them. And again, if they don't use macros will not reach finals.

This rule makes no sense at all...

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Well I'm not really convinced that macro make you THAT better, except in certain cases it eventually allow you to anim cancel one or two other skills I guess, but it's pretty redundant, and you need creativity to go higher diamond, not plain stupid macro

 

I main Sin (diamond) and I can tell you it would be impossible to macro your combos against good oponnents, since you rarely get the perfect opening with all your cd and the easy same combos.

 

I got a FM reroll too (but I'm not really good with it since don't have much time to practice), and I don't have any difficulties to preform an aerial combo "jaesung like" without macro.

 

You musn't forget that low ping is really important to perform combos with the maximum of anim cancel.

 

Since you took jeasung as an example, dont forget he got nearly 200ms on NA.

 

BTW  I'm really curious about your sources.

 

Anyone can say "blabla macro are allowed in KR tournament babla"

 

What's your source ?

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3 hours ago, Ashaion said:

I got a FM reroll too (but I'm not really good with it since don't have much time to practice), and I don't have any difficulties to preform an aerial combo "jaesung like" without macro.

Really?

I mean performing a double stun double air combo as such is easy. However it also does minimal damage. Most of his damage comes from "filler" LC-RC-(1).

And here comes my question - are you really able to preform HIS combo? With all "filler" skills? If so - you're awesome! I cannot.

 

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yeah I can but I failed it a looooot of times before.

 

It just takes practice.

 

Also fighting low gold noobs help me to practice it a lot.

 

there's a book call play to win, who explain you got to try your combos on noobs even if you're already a pretty good player.

By doing this, the combo become natural, and you can pull it off EVERY time against good players without thinking twice (sometimes if you think about a combo instead of doing it without thinking it's already too late)

 

My point is that you shoudn't be ashamed to derank a lot sometimes, to practice against noob players your combos and try new things.

 

This you way you can develop your creativity too

 

link : http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

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On 3/29/2016 at 11:13 PM, Abonde said:

wtf they knowingly allowed macros in tournaments in the past????? that's like cs:go letting u wall/aimbot

Macros were allowed in CSGO for a long time.. Do you not remember jump smokes?

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6 hours ago, VRock said:

lool so for the most people here using macros = insta diamond!

*facepalm*

Not sure what you mean with "most people"...

If you suck - you will continue to suck also with macros.

If you are good, you will continue to be good, but will be able to put considerable more damage in given time period.

 

Actually today I had sevaral fights vs same destro and I think he was using macros, coz he tried over and over same fruitless tactics, consisting of 3-4 chained skills. It was obvious at the first, that it is not going to work, but he just continued. This is example how macros (if he used them, not sure!!) can be harmful, but again - it's up to the player, macros are not a silver bullet.

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We're almost off topic but whatever who cares about using macros.

The good question is if you want to be a good player using macros or a good player not using macros.

 

I prefer to be a good player that doesn't use macros.

 

To go back to the topic, the FM that does well in arena are the only ones in diamond so its a pretty weird question. But FM is a strong class when mastered (and hard to play sorry but its not easy to play FM) Some other classes needs less effort and we can also pretend that some players in tournament are here just because of their class but they get beaten by others because the others just play better.

Well, theres too much things to take into account anyway, luck sometimes, best and worst matchup, experience (some players are playing since beta or even for 2/3 years cuz they play in asiat servers) etc.

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19 hours ago, Ashaion said:

yeah I can but I failed it a looooot of times before.

 

It just takes practice.

 

Also fighting low gold noobs help me to practice it a lot.

 

there's a book call play to win, who explain you got to try your combos on noobs even if you're already a pretty good player.

By doing this, the combo become natural, and you can pull it off EVERY time against good players without thinking twice (sometimes if you think about a combo instead of doing it without thinking it's already too late)

 

My point is that you shoudn't be ashamed to derank a lot sometimes, to practice against noob players your combos and try new things.

 

This you way you can develop your creativity too

 

link : http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

Hey! Thanks for the link! :)


Yeah, well... since I am one of those "low gold" players, I practice mostly on mobs, that's how I managed to make it work in a first place :)

How often do you actually use this combo in pvp? Although I can perform the basic version (without filler dps), I find more effective to do damage in other ways?

15 minutes ago, Kyrrua said:

We're almost off topic but whatever who cares about using macros.

The good question is if you want to be a good player using macros or a good player not using macros.

 

I prefer to be a good player that doesn't use macros.

 

To go back to the topic, the FM that does well in arena are the only ones in diamond so its a pretty weird question. But FM is a strong class when mastered (and hard to play sorry but its not easy to play FM) Some other classes needs less effort and we can also pretend that some players in tournament are here just because of their class but they get beaten by others because the others just play better.

Well, theres too much things to take into account anyway, luck sometimes, best and worst matchup, experience (some players are playing since beta or even for 2/3 years cuz they play in asiat servers) etc.

Yeah, absolutely :)

It's all about practice and understaning the opponent's class.

At first I remamber I was like omgwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfomgomg-I-won or more often ...-I-lost. Now when I loose a match at least I know why and what I have made wrong... and try to improve it next time. Is a process. A fun one! :)

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