ZhejTwitch

NCSoft please control the ridiculous undercutting

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You guys can easily control this buy buying out the ridiculously low silverfrost transformation stones and refiners. This game's economy on both NA and EU are going to trash and if nothing is done to prevent this from happening i'm pretty sure it's going to ruin players from making money. Right now it's not worth it at all to even craft stones and refiners. Just better off farming a recipe and selling it since you get more out of it instead of idiots undercutting by 5-100g when they can undercut 1copper.

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Good happy that you extreme high priced sellers are getting screwed over by the economy cause nobody wants to buy your crazy 50g priced silverfrost transformation stones.

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What is "ridiculously low" will be bought out if the demand is there.

 

Now, I won't disagree that the economy is still messed up. They really need to rework input requirements and craft times, or at least make critical/bottleneck materials available at alternative sources. One major problem is that the new 50 faction zone is not very efficient for soulstone farming.

 

However, to say that it is messed up due to undercutting is incorrect. That simply means some supplier expectations are not at equilibrium.

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fruitie   

It is sad that you are probably serious. While you may think the game should revolve around your personal experience, it shouldn't. A free market is a free market. One of the reasons people rushed to upgrade their weapons is so that they could put off buying overpriced stones.

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Just check the stats dude. Rly "Everyone" want to HAVE them ... but only a few people can craft them atm. So its just normal that they are expensive atm. 

 

Calm down and just farm the other stuff u´l need later and buy ur stone in a few weeks. There is just no need to "max out" ur gear just 4 days after patch ...

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PCComet   

if anything i like that they are being brought down to a lower price. It's bound to happen anyway so i don't know why you are complaining about it. Eventually they will dip even lower than they are now. And 500g-700g bp is just plain stupid. Not only am i happy about the undercutting but this is also a good opportunity for everyone to catch up honestly. I haven't seen people using upgraded weapons or rings yet because everything is too damn expensive. I told my guild to take this time to catch up since we have a more efficient way to gather soulstones as well as making money. Since I don’t want them buying a fkn stone for 35g+ because that’s just fkn ridiculous when certain dgns can be done with true pirate gear just fine. And once everyone catches up then you just save up soulstones, mats, gold, etc to do whatever it is you need to do to keep on moving in the game.

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I am already sobbing over 1.5g increase in MTS. Not to mention those insane prices that only gold buyers or nonlifer pvpers gets. At some point the new stones were 150g each which I find insane pricey. I would be happy to have them lowered to 40g or even less each which could be obtainable within month or so for pvers.

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TopKEK   

OP is the kind of person that makes people feel good about bots undercutting prices.

 

And that's coming from a person who hates bots with an extreme passion. 

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Aerroon   
13 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

I am already sobbing over 1.5g increase in MTS. Not to mention those insane prices that only gold buyers or nonlifer pvpers gets. At some point the new stones were 150g each which I find insane pricey. I would be happy to have them lowered to 40g or even less each which could be obtainable within month or so for pvers.

You mean those MTS where it costs as much to craft them as they are sold for on the market? Yesterday one MWTS was on market 7g each, crafting cost was 6g80s for it. Now add fees to this and people who don't craft still call you greedy "for selling it so expensive". Their reasoning "well just don't buy the materials and farm them instead!!!"

 

This is the problem with easily accessible crafting (ie no investment or proper levelling required). Everyone's going to do it that has even 2 brain cells and it's going to bring the prices into the toilet. In the end it'll be the same as MWTS was for a time: only people who couldn't actually do math crafted them because selling them on the market gave you less money than it cost to craft them from the materials. People still complained it was too expensive.

 

You need a serious barrier to entry like the recipe for it. But I would prefer this to be based on effort and time rather than RNG (eg you need to craft 500 Kaolin Refiners before you can craft Premium Kaolin Refiners or something like that).

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Lurkios   

This is how supply and demand works OP.

 

"Undercutting" is just a word greedy crafters like to throw around.

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Oxygen   

I blame the greedy ones who sell the Silverfrost merry potters recipe for crazy price at first place..They increase cost for potters so potters increase price of their refiners and stuff to make up for the high amount they paid to get recipe and hence increasing costs for soul wardens..

I wish all people had more patience and didn't buy the overpriced potters recipe at first place till high commission force the sellers to sell for a more reasonable price ..Costs would have gone far lower for everyone and so would numbers in general..It would have been easier for servers to upgrade..Whats making it take more time for average income players to upgrade their stuff is the greed of the potters recipe sellers at first place..Eliminate that then you won't have problems with selling Silverfrost TS for lower.

Edited by Oxygen

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FourOhm   

The reason prices are so high for items like the potter technique is because people will buy it at that price. These people are investors and believe they can make money off of this purchase.

 

The reason prices are so low when people undercut is because people will sell it at that price. If they undercut more than 1 copper, they are simply stupid. Unless you want to intentionally crash the market, there is zero reason to undercut more than one copper. If your item is the cheapest on market by 1 copper, people will buy it just the same as if it was 1 silver cheaper. 

 

As an investor myself, obviously i'm probably biased. A big argument I see when people say undercutting is no problem is that it makes things cheaper, which is good for everyone. I see this argument being used to defend bots as well. 

This irks me because these people don't realize, the economy is not composed of only buyers. If you're getting a cheaper deal on soulstones because bots farm them, or refiners/trans stones because people undercut wildly, someone else is getting shorted on their profit. Likely someone who spent long hours PvPing or tanking bw for soulstones (like me), or saved up a lot of gold, forgoing gear upgrades, to invest in a recipe only to have undercutters drop the price by by 75% in one day (like me). 

 

I've made a lot of bad investments in this game, and I typically don't blame others for it. But the undercutting specifically mentioned by OP, IMO, needs to stop. The market in this game is so volatile due to undercutting that I don't feel safe ever investing again.

 

One last note: I played EVE Online, which has a similar, but much more complex, market and trade system. Just like in this game, there was never any reason to undercut any price by more than 1 ISK (gold), besides laziness to type or intentional manipulation. 

 

tl;dr There's no reason to undercut, you're only crashing the market for yourself and others. If you're going to defend it by saying prices get cheaper, you're overlooking the impact this has on the seller.

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Bumlife   

hmmm.
on the other post ive read someone is complaining about the Over pricing of things.
and now here...

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Morcra   

um thats one of the things i like about this market system. you can sell a large amount for a lower price and a lesser amount for a higher price. supply and demand.

 

but yeah, crafting/gathering in general needs to be reconstructed, cus its honestly pretty retarded.

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Vau   

your complaining about stones while pretty much every other craft in the game has been made at a loss to the maker since the game was launched.

 

take pride in the money you made gouging the masses on required items from launch while every other profession suffered lmfao.

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Hatsunya   
On 26.3.2016 at 11:14 PM, TopDollar said:

Good happy that you extreme high priced sellers are getting screwed over by the economy cause nobody wants to buy your crazy 50g priced silverfrost transformation stones.

My first batch sold for 65-70g ea in 20minutes. My second batch that i sold went for 40g ea. So you're saying that no one is buying them? :D

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2 hours ago, Hatsunya said:

My first batch sold for 65-70g ea in 20minutes. My second batch that i sold went for 40g ea. So you're saying that no one is buying them? :D

There will always be a few super rich idiots buying the extremely overpriced stuff in any game since they want to be first desperately in a game. Still glad the stone are dropped down massively so overpriced people like you can't sell for your overpriced tag anymore.

Edited by TopDollar

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A little market info for those that read this, STS will maintain around 20g ea, that's the stabilized market price in other servers, whose mats cost about the same as ours right. 

 

Unless of cos, as seen before 50 patch, NA/EU seems to love undercutting to the point of cost > profit. Then maybe we can see <20g STS

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Ripley   

I`m pretty happy when the prices coming down. I don`t sell anything at all in market place and farm money only by doing daily quests or buy gold. I think a lot of casual players like this situation ^^

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Fiana   

actually many crafter don't like to craft transformation stone at all, since there barely any profit at all, currently MTS sell at @5g 20s or so, that mean gross profit 50g, you need 100 soulstone @35s, 5 refiner @2g, quartz and sap... see that? just material already worth more than 45g... unless you told us to pvp 20++ a day to farm soulstone

 

currently i just sell 5 or 7 MTS per day, and keep the rest for upgrade just to cover money for soulstone T_T

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Brainy   

If you can't sell your shit at the price you want it's not because you were undercut, but because people didn't want to buy it at that price.

 

Let me "draw" it to you:

> you put something in the market at X price

> someone puts the same thing at X-10g (just an example)

> this very cheap item gets bought out immediately

> next comes your item and since it's the correct price, it will be bought out next

Now, if your price is ridiculous, nobody will buy it.

 

Of course, if the demand is high the price will naturally go up, but the above still applies.

 

 

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Undercutting is normal. What I don't understand is how everyone is willingly selling at a loss. Every single day since patch, if you were to buy refiner and make stones then the next day you would lose money selling those stones at the rate that the price is dropping. Even if you make your own refiner, you would have made more just selling the refiner.

 

Why is the majority making and selling stones at a loss?

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So....you're annoyed at players choosing to sell them at a lower price than yours. That's their choice. How would you even go about restricting that?...never mind, it's a stupid idea to even try it. There are more important issues to deal with....though those probably won't be either.

Edited by Nilkemios

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