Huge problem with upgrades after level 36

[GLoRToR]

There is a heavy inconsistency in how gear is treated (upgraded) after you get your level 36 infernal upgrades.

Suddenly everything starts to cost way too much in comparison to how much money you make.

Up until that point the game gives you your transmutation stones and you earn enough coppers / silvers from your quests to get everything done.

This suddenly changes at level 36. 

What makes it even more problematic is that once you enter the level 45+ content, you could very well be running with no weapon. 

Suddenly even your hard-earned True Profane gear feels worthless yet it takes immense amounts of work to get.

This needs severe rebalancing.

[GLoRToR]

@devs

[Elvenmad]

 I have to agree, the later you travel through the game the more everything costs, which is normal but the amount of effort you have to put in and the time sink does not justify the measly reward.  

 

 It actually gets far worse at level 50 from 45,  at level 50 everything practically doubles in cost and although it is a new content patch and we have advanced 5 more levels the gold rewards from level 50 daily quest is the same , and in some it is even lower than the level 45 dailys which does not make sense at all, there is no balance so it comes as no surprise that some players buy gold which i'm sure judging by some players with already fully maxed out gear do, there is no way they could have that gear from just playing.

 

[Lunakitty]

After true profane everything will get to 10-100 times more expensive depending what you need. The amount of Soulstones each upgrade simply skyrockets and so do the required ingredients.

[Lynstar]

oh c'mon, true profane is not difficult at all to get. might be a little time consuming depending on your luck with rng but that's it.

 

from siren/oathbreaker onwards, the way i see it, it's meant to be challenging, so that most people will always have something to do. you can easily beat the entire story and get to level 50 with true profane; after that, it's a matter of combining grinding with other activities, such as helping your clan advance or going for blackwyrm/the silverfrost faction dailies. i like that things are expensive and that the game doesn't give you what you need to upgrade past true profane. i would be bored out of my mind if i didn't have so much to work hard for.

[GLoRToR]

I don't know how you can be bored in this game. If weapons didn't consume all your time to get, 10 gold at a time, you'd have much more time for:

- World pvp

- Arena pvp

- Farming

- Leveling / farming on your other characters

- Completing achievements and challenges

- Helping out lowbies

I have a job, family etc so I find the above to already be a lot of quality time spent. 

 

The gigantic hole between true profane and the rest of the levels is due to the ridiculously low amount of gold you make with endgame dailies and dungeons in comparison to your overall costs. If the game readily gave you a steady amount of mats you need for your tier every day (like it intends to with soulstones, except it's a fraction of what you need), we'd not have to face the following issues:

- Gold sellers

- No-lifers and gold-buyers hogging resources and artificially influencing market prices

- Difficulty of having more than one character

- Difficulty of reaching the wealth of people who either pump a thousand dollars a week into the economy OR have 24/7 to grind and be rich

- New players feeling useless / intimidated / dying all the time on bosses with 1shot mechanics due to their low gear more so than their lack of skill (though the latter is a factor of course, but it should be, while the wealth gap shouldn't.)

 

Due to the discrepancies in this wealth gap I am inclined to call the game pay-to-win currently. While it is not entirely true because you CAN "win" without paying, it's still somewhat worrying how this gap makes things less than enjoyable with the introduction of level 50 content.

I urge the devs to please consider adjusting daily rewards to the demand.

[GLoRToR]

@devs

[Hatsunya]

Wtf are you spamming devs.....

 

Its there and it wont be changed. Continue to level up and you can keep upgrading your weapon then. Amount of money will skyrocket from lvl 45 to 50 which makes your life 100 times easier with those low level upgrades. Instead of complaining go play game

[GLoRToR]

1 minute ago, Hatsunya said:

Wtf are you spamming devs.....

 

Its there and it wont be changed. Continue to level up and you can keep upgrading your weapon then. Amount of money will skyrocket from lvl 45 to 50 which makes your life 100 times easier with those low level upgrades. Instead of complaining go play game

1. I have the right to express my opinion and request an official response to the problem I'm presenting. The problem which has been discussed and agreed upon to be a great detriment to the game's quality, as new players are experiencing problems with this and it needs to be addressed. Freedom of speech.

 

2. Unless you have some manner of ownership over the game, you have the same amount of say in whether it will get changed or not, as I do. Being hostile does not further the discussion. Why are you even posting if you have nothing constructive to add? You're wasting your own time.

 

3. Amount of gold does not skyrocket. In fact, level 45 dailies are the same while level 50 dailies are much harder and people with low gear find it very hard to do most of them. Which is why I've made this thread: several of my friends whom I've brought to this game feel this way, as well as many other people we have talked to during the week. 

 

You see, it would make sense for level 45 dailies to give more of the mats that people need, including moonwater stones, since that region is now retro content and there is no reason for it to stall the player anymore. Had you actually read my posts instead of just, for whatever reason, attacking me for voicing something so blatantly obvious, you'd have seen my arguments all of which are valid.

 

4. I'm not currently able to log on and won't be for a while. Grown up people have grown up things to do during the day.

[KzE]

There are only 2 problems

 

1. people have no patience, thats why all playing moba games and mmorpgs slowly dying

2. people with 0 free time wanna play super time consuming games

[Hatsunya]

37 minutes ago, GLoRToR said:

1. I have the right to express my opinion and request an official response to the problem I'm presenting. The problem which has been discussed and agreed upon to be a great detriment to the game's quality, as new players are experiencing problems with this and it needs to be addressed. Freedom of speech.

 

2. Unless you have some manner of ownership over the game, you have the same amount of say in whether it will get changed or not, as I do. Being hostile does not further the discussion. Why are you even posting if you have nothing constructive to add? You're wasting your own time.

 

3. Amount of gold does not skyrocket. In fact, level 45 dailies are the same while level 50 dailies are much harder and people with low gear find it very hard to do most of them. Which is why I've made this thread: several of my friends whom I've brought to this game feel this way, as well as many other people we have talked to during the week. 

 

You see, it would make sense for level 45 dailies to give more of the mats that people need, including moonwater stones, since that region is now retro content and there is no reason for it to stall the player anymore. Had you actually read my posts instead of just, for whatever reason, attacking me for voicing something so blatantly obvious, you'd have seen my arguments all of which are valid.

 

4. I'm not currently able to log on and won't be for a while. Grown up people have grown up things to do during the day.

Yeah sure you have right but spamming them wont give you answer. If you really want answer to your question from devs try to get it from livestreams and not here

[Erza Scarlet]

Learn how the marketing works and you actually may get rich. 

[Mistia]

Speaking as a casual player.

 

Does people really have no patience or does the amount of mats you need, makes you feel like you are on a sinking ship? Because no matter how much water you try to dump with your bucket, the ship is sinking faster and faster. The delicate balance between rewarding and punishing.

 

Some things just takes time to develop, NA/EU are getting contents that may have taken years of time spam into weeks. But our rewards, amount of gold or experience are not increased. I read on the forum many times and personally experience bots. Why they are not going away despite the efforts NC may have put in. Why is that? Because in order for casual players to even play the game, weapons needs to be upgraded to join dungeons that are requesting XXX ap or you run the risk of

bots/afkers in your party or even ppl who is running for the first time, or with low weapon/accessories, that take your causal play time an hour to complete Poh6. Sure you could drop group and take another 30 minutes to find a good one or try your luck out and form it yourself with your mediocre ap for another 30 minutes too.

 

What are you left to do? Buy golds or farm it yourself or don't play period. I agree that gold sellers will never be gone, but a healthy game will make them obscure enough that you dismiss their existence. I know that plenty are out there with high ap and great accessories, who knows the market and blah blah to make enough gold.

 

But you know what, as a causal player, I do not want to play a game like it is a chore or obligation, defeats the purpose of playing a game isn't it? And sure this is entirely my choice and the way RL is. I chose to go to work and earn my living instead of pouring my time in a game that at the end of the day just a mean of relaxation for me. I choose to spend my time doing other things. And no this not my "this game suck" or "rage quit" or "get your s**t together NC" response. This is just how I've seen and personally experienced. I hold the idea that casual players will always outnumber the hardcore players, but if all the posts so far haven't change the direction of NC, hey what can you do right?

 

Last, but really not the least, but this is all I can think of right now. I hope no one will quote me and give me the crap excuse of "this not NCWest's decision" or "this how the original version is, deal with it." Because it obviously is. Just with the core concept of weapon progression, no other version of the game received what we did. No other version had forced players to buy NCoins to use mail function, and don't even get me started with how radiant ring can only craft diamond gems. As depress as it is for me to write this, NCWest simply chose not to.

 

I do want to end with a positive note that I choose not to upgrade my weapon right now, I choose not to rush to 50 HM5, and I choose not to spend my RL money to buy gold from gold sellers or exchange my NCoins for gold. NC has the freedom to tweak the game however they like, at least I can retain my freedom of choice. Its great if NC listens to our honest suggestions, but whether they do or not will be on them. As a player that had paid RL money and really like this game I think I've done it just. And yes losing a few players here and there won't kill this game. It'll be here for years, NC is a big company they can afford it no doubt. It sure seems silly to care about something if the creators don't or spend your precious time getting frustrated every time you log in game.

 

Too long to read? Don't read it, choice is in your hands isn't it? ;)

[Southbeatz]

Running certain dailies is more than enough to stay upgraded but it will be slower than those that buy gold. What unfortunately is next to impossible is running multiple characters and gearing them up without buying gold which really sucks some fun out of the game because what keeps MMOs fun for me is having multiple characters to play.

[Ziggy Nils]

@Southbeatz I agree with that, I'm use to creating and leveling every class in every MMO I've played and that's somewhat ruining the fun for me. Right now I have 5 over lv45 but only one that has slightly better gear than the rest and another with the better SS combination.

[Aevri]

On 3/26/2016 at 4:39 PM, GLoRToR said:

hard-earned True Profane

I lol'd.

 

But is called transition. You are using prepared gear to enter a new high level content as a newbie. Things will be hard at first and you need to be keep upgrading your gears to a point you will finally realize you are getting tougher week by week.

 

Any activities you mentioned involves farming mats. More like farming mats while doing what you like so what is the problem?

[Intersolar]

i just don't get the new evo system - to get from oathbreaker to awakened O.b (true siren AP) you need 11 mw stones! and 180 ss what the actual f...? and this not counting the breakthrough =/ whats the point in it? to be 5 ap ahead in the end of true pirate weapon?

[Lunakitty]

The reason why people with True Profane/Infernal feel very weak in Silverfrost is because they simply are weak. Those who started earlier the game had more time to upgrade their gears slowly to better ones. Then when the new update came out everyone rushed to level 50 content. So do new players/characters and they meet this problem. Just stay in the level 45 content until you have the basic upgrades like those purple Soul Shield parts from 24-man dungeons and 6-man dungeons. Don't rush to new content without feeling confident you can handle it. If you feel like you can do it with your current situation go ahead!

 

The upgrade costs are still quite minor compared to the later upgrades where you start needing 5-20 Moonwater Transformation Stones. You can easily earn one Moonwater Transformation Stone  with just doing faction dailies on Moonwater area (without pvp quest you get 17 Soulstones) and Tomb of the Exile daily (2 Soulstones). Selling these Soulstones will give you money for upgrading and you can later on start saving them for upgrades and crafting. It is purely how much effort you put in the grinding and finding ways to make money even at lower contents. If you feel this amount is not enough then try making two characters. These quests are easily done without having to upgrade your weapon too high where you need Moonwater Transformation Stones.

 

At first I also thought that it is insanely costly to get upgrades done and thought I will never get to even Awakened Siren. But here I am with no gold bought with my NCoins (used only for fashion or character slots) about to get Awakened Pirate so you can do it too. Also I don't do pvp at all so it is not impossible to be pver and upgrade your stuff.  Just for the record, it took me nearly 3 months to get True Siren from the first day I started playing. @GLoRToR How long have you spent time getting upgrades at your current level?

[zorz767]

I finished chatper 33 with true profane weapon and aw. infernal accessory. Now I can slowly progress with my upgrades. Ppl simply need to realize they dont need to finish everything in 2 weeks. Personally I like this system of slow progression. After all, its not like you need top tier gear to complete end game content.

[Pride1773]

I agree with lunakitty, the upgrade system is quite humane.

The real issue here is that people have no patience. You can get your higher upgrades easily by just doing your lvl 45 soulstone dailys. Thats like 10 mins a day. If you get an alt its even easier. Also always join the stronger faction.

[Southbeatz]

It could be some people lack patience but it's also partly because of how fast NCsoft is rushing out new content. People like me need several characters to have fun in MMOs. If I run one character and ignore alts, the game would not stay fun nearly as long as it could for me. I know if only using one character, it's a lot easier to gear up. My main Warlock is at Awakened Pirate but that's only because when Silverfrost was added, I've been mostly just using Warlock. Silverfrost has a lot to do that pays out silver and gold but it also has far more high value drops that can be sold than Moonwater did. Silverfrost, I think, will be far more friendly to people when it comes to making the needed gold for upgrades.

 

From what I've seen so far, in Soulstone plains, 1 daily quest drops from bosses, 1 can be bought with prestige, and if all dailies there done, just from the daily quest reward it would be around 56 soul stones but more can be obtained if people takes part in the battle after mining that no one seems to ever take part in. Misty woods has dailies for soul stones but not nearly as many but still an easy 10 or more soul stones depending on what you choose to do there. 3 more soul stones at the beach if you want, 2 from tome of exiles daily. If i go to Misty woods, I'll typically just do 4 dailies for the fastest soul stones because the other 2 that require going into the opposing factions area by their base can be quick or take forever depending on how many players are there but even going the quick route for 14, that'd be an easy 70 soul stones in one day.

 

True siren to Awakened Pirate was 150 soul stones so a little over 2 days to have the soul stones for that. Roughly 15-30g doing dailies in Silverfrost, more if you get lucky drops to sell. The real cost is the transformation stones because there's no cheap way to get those. If you craft, you'll need 100 soul stones which will cost roughly 2/3 of the price of the transformation stones. Sure in this example 10 are not needed but like last I looked on Soha server, soulstones were 34s each, moonwater trans stones just over 5g each. That would make 34g then you need the 5 moonwater quartz usually 50s or so each but hard to find people selling just 5, 10 moonwater tear which are cheap, then the refiner last I looked were over 2g each and 5 needed so easily the cost and value of materials needed to craft are as high as out right buying the trans stones so no real way to make it cheaper.

 

At 5g each, 35g for the trans stones and 18g upgrade fee so about 2 days of playing to fund that. Then the cost continues when it comes time to use fodder to get to stage 5 and beyond. Probably roughly 3 days, maybe 4 days to upgrade and get from stage 1 to stage 5 and probably another day or so going stage 5 to 10. All of this is just True siren to awakened pirate. This doesn't include before or after and certainly doesn't include each accessory upgrade. All of this is very easy and pretty much smooth for just one character but try and get this done on multiple characters and it just will become a real pain and that really hurts the game for people like me. I'll keep going because I don't care to have the highest stats, as long as I can run dungeons I want and do what I want in game, I don't need the best gear but to what I said earlier.

 

I believe we are getting content far too quickly and many agree. Ncsoft is wanting to get NA caught up because of the esport aspect of the game in the future for NA so while they're doing that, players will get a minimal amount of time to gear up inbetween content updates. I'll just settle for being a bit behind most so that I can have more than one character to enjoy because without those alts, no mmo can stay really fun long term for me. When ncsoft slows down the updating, everyone should have plenty of time to casually gear up multiple characters and have fun.

[ellenjanuary]

It's ridiculous. Especially oathbreaker. 

[Passel]

imo, this game is very grinding.

you cant really expect much if you can only spend 2-3 hr a day.

[Nilkemios]

From Tomb of Exiles (Infernal gear) and onward, the upgrade system takes a dive off a cliff.

 

- The sudden inclusion of Soulstones into most of crafting now, while the only ways of getting them yourself are either faction dailies (most of which aren't available to you until having cleared Act 3's story and give little for each, as well as the stupid open world PvP flagging) or 2000 Zen Beans plus a special ticket from certain Lv50 dungeons for a pouch that may have a little over 20 at a time.

 

- Moonwater Transformation Stones, which have a ridiculous cost and wait time. (100 Soulstones, 4 Moonwater Tears, 5 Moonwater Quartz, and 5 Premium Tempered Clay Refiners, and a whole day of waiting to get ten of them.) Soulstones are already a pain to get. Moonwater Tears are gated behind the Big 4 Moonwater dungeons, and everyone bids on those. Premium Tempered Clay Refiners are also now locked behind a recipe, unlike the previous two, only available from Brightstone Ruins, which means everyone will be bidding on that too. And the premium refiner will also add 10 more soulstones, 5 more Moonwater Quartz, and 5 more Moonwater Tears (for the regular refiner to make it) to the cost.

 

Between the ridiculous cost and wait time and the fact that two of the things you need are gated behind Lv45 content to upgrade a Lv36 item, it's clear that whoever worked on the upgrade system either didn't have a clue how to do it well, or just didn't care. From this point onward, you ability to progress on your own merit is taken completely from you. It started with Tomb of Exiles, but this is what puts the nail in the coffin.

 

You now have no choice but to group up for Brightstone Ruins (because at this point there's no way to reasonably solo it, even if you reach 45 first), forcing you to endure the stupid bidding system and hope that recipe pops up at all, and if it does, that you have enough gold to outbid the others. And you probably won't. You are completely at the mercy of the market now if you want to upgrade at even a semi-decent pace. It makes an already alt unfriendly game even more so, and once again encourages the selfish mentality. Even Tera didn't pull this crap until the very endgame dungeons, and even then you could get started on the first or second tier of 65 gear on your own.

[HeiHua]

Just find a way to make money. 

My hint: Farm lycan essences for today and sell them around 9-10silver each. 

4 essence if you kill boss alone = 30 s + 

To kill it takes max 10 minutes, multiply by 6 and you have 1.8 gold per hour. This is decent income if you ask me. 

Later on, you could do dailies for faction and earn some cash + soulstones. 

And you still have an option to make pvp arena dailies that will give you beans, which you could spend for more soulstones to sell. 

Their price is raising due to the high demand with high lvl eq upgrades, and will remain raising so it is a good way of income. 

Any soulstone in 10 pack each for low price is being bought imidiately. 

 

So carry on, think what you could do, its easy. 

I am playing my alt at 39 lvl and i already have 30 g.