Ice build wants to switch to fire

[RetroByte]

When I first started I focused on fire which was great at the time but I switched to an Ice rain build and fell in love. It works well for me as a mostly solo player but when I do run dungeon parties I'm lazy and keep it on ice knowing full well that fire build would be more efficient. 

So last night I decided to pull my weight, fire it up for the lvl 50 silver frost runs and wow, what a disaster. I forgot how to fire ?

Found it really hard to keep focus up mainly so I'd like to know how you guys keep your focus balanced in fire.

I've looked at some other build/guides but I find them a little hard to understand since I use controller so skill names instead of key binds are much appreciated. Thanks ☺️

[Lith]

Edit number two

this works for me. and is only meant to keep your focus up. of course you use the other skills too

 

All you do is spam Fire Blast and Fire Laser.

Fire Blast (you're main attack) gives you Focus. Don't use Frost Blast (secondary attack) to much as it also needs Focus.

 

If you are really out of Focus you can use Frost Tornado

[RetroByte]

Hey thanks that helps ☺️

I think I just need to figure a better skill rotation.

[Rasky]

I don't want to be rude but what Lith said is completely wrong.

 

Priority List:

1. Keep burn up via Impact/Force Blast/Short Fuse/Inferno.

2. Spam LMB/RMB together with no.2 (Dragonchar/Blazing Beam)

3. Use Inferno and Meteor Shower on cooldown.

4. If needed refresh focus with Short Fuse/Frost Fury/Dragonwhorl.

 

To get optimum rotation, focus levels and dps, try and spec into:

Short Fuse - Stage 1 Tier 3

Inferno - Stage 2 Tier 2

Meteor Shower - Stage 2 Tier 2

Flame Palm - Stage 1 Tier 3 (DO NOT take tier 4, tbh it is a loss in dps even in solo)

Frost Palm - Stage 2 Tier 3

 

These two go hand in hand:

If you take Dragonchar (Stage 1 Tier 3), take Impact (Stage 2 Tier 3). AOE/Single Target,

 

If you took Blazing Beam (Stage 3 Tier 3), take Force Blast (Stage 3 Tier 3). Single Target.

 

The rest up to you to take, support/defensive stuff.

[RetroByte]

Yeah I'm still struggling with fire so I decided to try a duel, specking frost and flame quick orbs for duel dragons, flame aoe and frost support but it's still not working for me. Even with burning soul my bog standard flame damage is 3k (ice was 4k), the high output spells give me 8 - 10k with 14+ crit but it's slow with long cool downs and I felt like frost still outperformed for quick, short and sweet dmg.

I accidentally Dragonfrost after my frost furry in dual build, it gave me a quick 7k. I can generally keep a high crit and focus to keep up the Dragonfrost so I'm spamming a few of them out way before the time it takes to cast inferno or duel dragon and cool down is non existent if the focus and crits keep coming.

I feel like flame looses out on a lot of dps during downtime. Sure it's general dmg output is higher than frost when it's ready but the frost build had pretty much no downtime.

I pulled agro more often than not on frost build compared.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[Rasky]

I'm not sure how you are playing with the Fire Tree but I have no downtime at all, I've played both trees and neither should get any downtime. As you said, it takes time to cast Inferno, which is why it's really desirable to have it specced to be an instant cast for the instant burn or for kiting purposes.

 

It's just a matter of practice to get the rotations down. 

[RetroByte]

Yep I got it!

Didn't realize inferno could cast instant but It was bad specs and rotation.

Thank you so much Rasky, you were a big help :D Fury machine once more :)

[Tsuchiryu]

After making a FM today, I decided to theorycraft a bit from info I got from a few topics, including this one. While keeping in mind to get as many healing, CC and resist/iframe skills as possible along what could be described as bread-and-butter stuff, this is what I came up with: https://bnstree.com/FM?build=50050002553125632265331251139411238332502138033106322513123533300323711124122110222633124931239222373224311

 

Is this good enough for general PvE or need any adjustments?

[Rasky]

3 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Is this good enough for general PvE or need any adjustments?

You haven't put a point in Flame or Frost Soul, that's a must.

 

Tier 4 on Divine Veil is beyond helpful. Countless of times it saved me from like 5-10% HP back to 100% cause mobs/players kept spamming range skills on me.

 

By the way, what's your strategy with Stage 3 Tier 3 of Firestorm? In my opinion it's just a dps loss and Stage 2 Tier 3 is better for the 0.5 second parry (a must for junghado).

 

Take that 1 point in Windstorm and put it into Tier 3 of Ice Armor, right now you are using Stage 1 which is perfectly fine, Stage 2 is useful as well if you want the distance after break.

 

Take that 1 point of Frost Sheath and Phantom Grip and use those 2 points to max out Dual Dragons, your hardest hitting ability.

 

P.S. I like you already since you didn't take auto-detonate.  :)

[Tsuchiryu]

2 hours ago, Rasky said:

You haven't put a point in Flame or Frost Soul, that's a must.

 

Tier 4 on Divine Veil is beyond helpful. Countless of times it saved me from like 5-10% HP back to 100% cause mobs/players kept spamming range skills on me.

 

By the way, what's your strategy with Stage 3 Tier 3 of Firestorm? In my opinion it's just a dps loss and Stage 2 Tier 3 is better for the 0.5 second parry (a must for junghado).

 

Take that 1 point in Windstorm and put it into Tier 3 of Ice Armor, right now you are using Stage 1 which is perfectly fine, Stage 2 is useful as well if you want the distance after break.

 

Take that 1 point of Frost Sheath and Phantom Grip and use those 2 points to max out Dual Dragons, your hardest hitting ability.

 

P.S. I like you already since you didn't take auto-detonate.  :)

Got it. Good to know I did right by going Stage 1 on Divine Veil, at least. Also good to know Stage 1 on Frost Armor is fine too. Got it mostly for the extra healing, though I suppose the knockback from Tier 3 is also nice. Will keep in mind Stage 2 for it if I feel it's needed.

 

Much as I'd like to leave Phantom Grip at least at T2S2 for usefulness of supporting Near Death party members, I suppose T1S1 works too since helping dying members to be about as situational as Aerial Phantom Grip.

 

As for why T3S3 on Fire Storm, it's mainly for the CC, not just for Junghado but for double CC bosses in general: the less I have to rely on party members for joint attacks the better. Furthermore, I hate crap with strict timing, like 0,5 second parry or whatever. It's same reason why I go for Stage 2 with Destroyer's Hurricane instead of Stage 3: I prefer the more forgiving time-wise defense boost instead of stricter deflect.

 

It's also why I hate anicanceling in general: it may be better from a minmaxing standpoint, but I hate how strict the timing for it can get and how easy it is to screw it up. Practice makes it perfect, yes, but really, I don't feel we should need to do it at all to get things done well enough.

 

And yeah, I read before elsewhere that autodetonate isn't very DPS-efficient, so I made sure not to go that route. I hate anicanceling on principle, so anything to mitigate having to resort to is is fair game to me.

 

 

BTW, I'm on doubt if speccing Snowball at all is a good idea. I did it more for the cooldown reduction, but I otherwise dunno how useful that skill really is. For that reason and not speccing Ice Coil into Cold Snap (nor being sure if it's a good thing to do either), Flame Soul seemed like the most useful passive for me. This is what the build looks like with your suggestions: https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500500025531256322653339431238332503138033106322513123533300112412211022263312494123922237222431141011

 

Should I use the points on Snowball to get Cold Snap instead so that getting Frost Soul would be more beneficial or leave it as it is?

[Rasky]

7 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

BTW, I'm on doubt if speccing Snowball at all is a good idea. I did it more for the cooldown reduction, but I otherwise dunno how useful that skill really is. For that reason and not speccing Ice Coil into Cold Snap (nor being sure if it's a good thing to do either), Flame Soul seemed like the most useful passive for me. This is what the build looks like with your suggestions: https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500500025531256322653339431238332503138033106322513123533300112412211022263312494123922237222431141011

 

Should I use the points on Snowball to get Cold Snap instead so that getting Frost Soul would be more beneficial or leave it as it is?

To be fair, the only time I ever used snowball is when I wanted to use Inferno and I was accidentally in Frost Mode haha. It's very useful in PvP though if you want to go that route.

 

But yea, if you are going for fire build, no use taking Snowball, Ice Coil or Cold snap.

 

You can use those 2 points on something more useful like the support Phantom Grip that you wanted to take.

[Tsuchiryu]

In that case, I'll keep Snowball and Cold Snap in the 'maybe' pile to go with Phantom Grip support instead. Best to keep that one open.

 

One last question: what would an ice build be like, as in what are its 'bread-and-butter' skill specs besides Frost Soul? Heard it's worse for DPS but better for solo play, I'm assuming largely because Freeze makes handling mobs easier. Is it better to go ice build when lvling?

[Viced]

I always have to tank bosses with this build, because that here is MAX DPS for PvE and max Def. Also never running out of Focus. NEVER.

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500500025532256323813126533125313943123832380331063325133235333001124122263212494123922237222431141011

[Lith]

So Frost Fury is for self healing. And Fire Fury is it also for Dealing Damage or simply for creating Orbs when doing Awakenend Dual Dragons?

I thought that Fire Fury makes rather less damage compared to blazing beam

 

It's already hard running around and pushing 2 for blazing beam. But also spamming "f" for Fury? phew...poor fingers :P

 

That fire storm knockback is nice though! wasn't aware of that :)

[Tsuchiryu]

30 minutes ago, Lith said:

That fire storm knockback is nice though! wasn't aware of that :)

You'd be surprised at the things you learn in-game when checking the other tabs in the skill window, particularly the Joint, Resist and, to a lesser degree, Reflex tabs. Then you apply that to the bnstree skill simulator by checking the description tags below each skill tree and check which ones give CC or damage/status resist. It's what I did with my FM build attempts here.

 

It was especially useful for me when lvling my Summoner. I learned I can double Daze and Knockdown if I spec the right things. Yes, I value being able to double CC bosses on my own that much. It also helps lvling to not be as limited with your points. Guess Destroyer spoiled me by having so many good CC options without having to spec into them. :P

[Rasky]

4 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

One last question: what would an ice build be like, as in what are its 'bread-and-butter' skill specs besides Frost Soul? Heard it's worse for DPS but better for solo play, I'm assuming largely because Freeze makes handling mobs easier. Is it better to go ice build when lvling?

For levelling, was definitely easier to Fire since you can AoE mow down, 2-20 mobs at the same time while as Ice is pure single target.

 

4 hours ago, Lith said:

So Frost Fury is for self healing. And Fire Fury is it also for Dealing Damage or simply for creating Orbs when doing Awakenend Dual Dragons?

I thought that Fire Fury makes rather less damage compared to blazing beam

 

It's already hard running around and pushing 2 for blazing beam. But also spamming "f" for Fury? phew...poor fingers :P

 

Do take note that F (Frost Fury, Flame Fury, Dual Dragons etc) have the same cooldown as your main abilities, so if you are using Flame Fury, you won't be able to use Blazing Beam. To be exact, you'll be cancelling Flame Fury if you try to force out a Blazing Beam.

 

And since they have the same global cooldown, people, including me, believe that it's a dps loss to actually cast a Flame Fury. 

[Tsuchiryu]

9 minutes ago, Rasky said:

Do take note that F (Frost Fury, Flame Fury, Dual Dragons etc) have the same cooldown as your main abilities, so if you are using Flame Fury, you won't be able to use Blazing Beam. To be exact, you'll be cancelling Flame Fury if you try to force out a Blazing Beam.

 

And since they have the same global cooldown, people, including me, believe that it's a dps loss to actually cast a Flame Fury. 

Wait, what? Aren't the Fury castings based on your stance and whether or not you crit? I also see that the cooldowns on all of them are instant except for Dual Dragons, which, if I'm reading the bnstree right, can only be cast with 3 of each of two types of Orbs... which in turn you stack with Furies (or Glacial Beam for Frost Orb if you spec it as such). And, again, going by skill descriptions, none of that should affect Blazing Beam.

 

If what you're saying is tue, then the skill descriptions are misleading.

[Lith]

4 hours ago, Viced said:

I always have to tank bosses with this build, because that here is MAX DPS for PvE and max Def. Also never running out of Focus. NEVER.

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500500025532256323813126533125313943123832380331063325133235333001124122263212494123922237222431141011

Firestorm Tier 3 Form 2 only works on Stunned, Dazed, Knockdown enemies.

Sure, If you chill/freeze them -> use impact which dazes them you could knock them into the air.

 

BUT isnt Heatwave Tier 3 Form 3 or Form 4 better?

I use Firestorm only when I am on the ground to get up again. With Heatwave I do more damage and I daze the enemy or knock them down depending on the form

 

 

The Skilltree of bnstree doesn't seem up to date with the game

[Rasky]

Try it for yourself, every time you use F, the main abilities also takes a global cooldown. Try and spam only 2 and F together, you won't be able to cast them at the same time. It will either be one or the other.

 

You can spam LMB, RMB and any main abilities like 2, no downside.

 

You can spam LMB, RMB and F. But, as you know, F has 3 bursts, it's not instant. So in that end you can spam LMB, RMB and F but you will be cancelling F on your next LMB or RMB attack.

 

So to summarise, if F and 2 share a cooldown, and 2 hits MUCH higher than F, why would anyone use F? Aside from getting flame orbits for Dual Dragons if you really need it but LMB should suffice.

[Viced]

42 minutes ago, Lith said:

FFirestorm Tier 3 Form 2 only works on Stunned, Dazed, Knockdown enemies.

Sure, If you chill/freeze them -> use impact which dazes them you could knock them into the air.

 

BUT isnt Heatwave Tier 3 Form 3 or Form 4 better?

I use Firestorm only when I am on the ground to get up again. With Heatwave I do more damage and I daze the enemy or knock them down depending on the form

 

 

The Skilltree of bnstree doesn't seem up to date with the game

Firestorm isn't for Air Lauch, it's more for deflecting things.

 

The Build I'm using now is better i think:

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500600025532256323813126533125313943125021380111063325133235333001124151263212494123922237222431141011

 

More DPS, less taunting, higher Chance of Loot on World Bosses

[JinGhoul]

Thinking about it, i usually just do this when i fight bosses:

LMB + 2 (Until i have 5 stacks) > 1 > LMB+RMB+2

There are times where i would do LMB + 2 (Until 5 stacks) > X > LMB+RMB+2 > C > LMB+RMB+2 > 1 > LMB+RMB+2.

 To get my focus i usually just use Tornado.

I haven't really looked into it but when i use Fire Fury = 3 Orbs > F, i usually get half of my Focus back. Those are the things i do when i'm just chilling and trying to get some dps in.

[Dlacik]

17 hours ago, Rasky said:

And since they have the same global cooldown, people, including me, believe that it's a dps loss to actually cast a Flame Fury. 

Because most ppl only compare base dmg of Fire Fury and Blazing Beam and they ignore the fact that using Fire Fury means more Dragonblazes and more Meteor Showers.

[Rasky]

1 hour ago, Dlacik said:

Because most ppl only compare base dmg of Fire Fury and Blazing Beam and they ignore the fact that using Fire Fury means more Dragonblazes and more Meteor Showers.

No I get that, it's pretty straightforward. What you don't get is Fire Fury AND Dragonblaze shares a global cooldown with Blazing Beam.

 

In a minute, I'd rather take (taking max modifiers on bns tree, assuming all are non-crit)

 

45 Blazing Beams - 700 - 31500

15 Dragonblazes - 1182 - 17730

2 Meteor Showers - 2520 - 5040

 

(62 Global Cooldowns)

 

compared to:

 

20 Blazing Beams - 700 - 14000

20 Dragonblazes - 1182 - 23640

20 Fire Fury - 56 - 1120

3 Meteor Showers - 2520 - 7560 (if you can actually manage to do 3 Meteor Showers in a minute)

 

(63 Global Cooldowns)

 

Quick math will tell you which one nets a higher dps. Not to mention that fact that spamming LMB/RMB while casting Fire Fury will occasionally cancel 1-2 projectiles, while this doesn't happen on the first instance.

 

Also not to mention that these are non-crits. If you did introduce crits, the gap will get bigger and bigger. And also, if you take a larger sample time, 5 minutes let's say, again the gap will get bigger and bigger.

[Dlacik]

@Rasky I`m not sure how did you come to your numbers but using dmg coefficients from BNS tree it`s:

 

48 Blazing beams - 48 x 10 (6 base + 4 burn) - 480
10 dragonblaze - 10 x 11 (9 base + 2 burn) - 110
2 meteor showers - 2x 42 (12 base + 5 x 6 burn) - 84
60x fire palm S1 - 60 x 3,2 (1,2 base + 2 flame soul) - 192

60 gcd + 60 lmb - total 866

 

vs

 

28 Dragonblaze - 28 x 11 (9 base + 2 burn) - 308
29 fire fury - 29 x 7.5 (4.5 base + 3 x 1 burn) - 217.5
3x meteor shower - 3 x 42 (12 base + 5 x 6 burn) - 126
60x fire palm S2 - 60 x 4 (1.2 base + 2 flame soul + 0.8 burn) - 240
60 gcd + 60 lmb - total 891

 

I`ve left out the RMB since that one will do same dmg for both builds. In the blazing beam build i`ve used the meteor shower instead of BB since meteor shower will leave your orbs unchanged so you can still use same amount of dragonblazes. In fire fury build you need to use meteor shower 2 times instead of dragonblaze and 1 time instead of fire fury since using it instead of fire fury will reduce the number of generated orbs.

[Rasky]

I was using the damage with the attack power coefficient. Either way, we'll both get the same relative answer. But the problem with your numbers is your beefing up meteor shower and fire fury?

 

Set aside the meteor shower since both rotations use it, you were multiplying the additional burn damage PER HIT, not combining it with the actual attack.

 

So your Fire Fury is actually:

29 fire fury - 29 x 5.5 (4.5 base + 1 x 1 burn) - 159.5

Which already puts you below the first method.

Also, I do more than 10 Dragonblazes per minute lol, somewhere between 15+ onwards