Truce

Why so few FM in arena 1v1 diamond ranking?

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Truce   

FM has like the lowest number of players in arena 1v1 diamond, even though if I ask if FM is strong ppl say yes. 
 
If you say there are less FM players than say summoner/bd/sin/destroyer/kfm, please give proof of this, otherwise it's just speculation. 

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dmoe33   
1 minute ago, Truce said:

FM has like the lowest number of players in arena 1v1 diamond, even though if I ask if FM is strong ppl say yes. 
 
If you say there are less FM players than say summoner/bd/sin/destroyer/kfm, please give proof of this, otherwise it's just speculation. 

Jus speculating here but maybe cause 1 you cant play it with high ping which is what most people have right now do to arena ping 2. its harder to play then other classes like kfm and des 3. could just be that thats how it is just the class to rank ratio 

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Zerecas   

Well, read the recent patch notes and go for the skill changes of all classes, you will know why.

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Mainly, I think FM are just flat-out unpopular. They aren't losing so much as they are just not being played. My guess is that people just don't like playing magical classes in a martial arts game. Summoner is -- or at least was -- bolstered by its ease of use, strength in PvE, and perceived strength in PvP, but FM doesn't really have that. Warlock has that generic edginess that helps somewhat, but FM is rather straightforward spellslinging.

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Vecejj   

FM isn't unpopular, there are plenty of FM due to the ease of PVE + Boss farming is easy as FM. Here are a few things as to why I think this is, provided I only managed 1895 before hitting a wall of sins that run / stealth 24/7 until the timer runs out I've currently quit PvP.

 

1: The only way in higher ranks to pull off GUARANTEED damage is to double aerial combo, not only is this extremely tricky / ping dependent but you can only do it every 30 seconds and only get like 30% of their health, whereas every other class can aerial combo with 1 button with ease, including a damn cat!

 

2: We have twice as much skills to use which sounds good but we still have to work 1000000000x more for the same outcome, not saying this is a bad thing but it puts players off and makes them re-roll to a sunflower spamming assassin.

 

3: Every class has their main counter. KFM = counter/resist BD = spin / deflect Destro = Spin / deflect BM = Block / deflect Sin = counter Warlock = Block Summ = counter / stealth and FM has nothing, until we get the hongmoon skill for Impact we are the only class without a low cd / spammable counter or resist.

 

4: We are the only class that can't 100-0 someone, literally every class can global you if you make one mistake, FM however you can blow your tab but you don't get punished as hard, the only class we might be able to global is Summ providing the cat doesn't intervene, we just don't have burst but everyone else does.

 

I think the main issue is the Aerial combo, I for one cannot pull it off due to my ping, you're supposed to hit tab and hold z so it goes off asap but it just doesn't and being unable to pull off the big aerial combo takes away huge chances / dmg.

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PhiKing   

Well who does FM naturally counter? I'd say warlock, and destroyer.

 

There aren't many diamond warlocks, and most matches in diamond are generally summoner>KFM>SIN>LBD. I added sin because I've seen a huge increase in diamond sins after their buff. So you're mostly going to be fighting classes that you don't easily beat. I think FM is the most balanced of the classes though, able to fight any opponent if played well.

 

Unlike other classes, they don't have a super hard counter (other than BM, and we all know BMs are underpowered ATM without HM skills), but they require you to pay lots of attention, especially to stacks and when to avoid parries, and most people don't like putting in the effort to do so. 

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Vecejj   
6 minutes ago, PhiKing said:

Well who does FM naturally counter? I'd say warlock, and destroyer.

 

There aren't many diamond warlocks, and most matches in diamond are generally summoner>KFM>SIN>LBD. I added sin because I've seen a huge increase in diamond sins after their buff. So you're mostly going to be fighting classes that you don't easily beat. I think FM is the most balanced of the classes though, able to fight any opponent if played well.

 

Unlike other classes, they don't have a super hard counter (other than BM, and we all know BMs are underpowered ATM without HM skills), but they require you to pay lots of attention, especially to stacks and when to avoid parries, and most people don't like putting in the effort to do so. 

BM, KFM and Sin are hard counters easily, especially in this patch. 

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PhiKing   
12 minutes ago, Vecejj said:

BM, KFM and Sin are hard counters easily, especially in this patch. 

TBH who doesn't sin and KFM counter? Except maybe Sin counters KFM...

I don't know why they'd buff KFM tbh, it's always been a strong class. Sin on the other hand, they buffed the wrong area. They should've rewarded sins who combo, but now you're more likely to win if you know how to spam RMB/F vs non spinning classes (in comparison to doing an actual combo). 

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Avalyn   

BM does not hard counter FM.

The only reason it is perceived as being so is because a lot of FM's are idiots who can't do some basic minimal theorycrafting on their own. 

 

What is the biggest problem for FM?

Block. 

What are the weaknesses of block?

Cannot block ground-based AoE's and only blocks frontal attacks.

Knowing this, how can I get around block?

AoE dump all day and use ice to freeze them + Q/E to get behind them.

What are the possible weaknesses in these methods?

If the BM manages to escape the AoE's range and break out of ice.

How does the BM do this?

Cyclone, SS, and V.

What do I then need to do to set this up properly?

Use a slow/movement skill disable to bait SS, do not randomly attack and trigger block, if the BM is using blade call you can just ice them and stand off to the side so they cannot target, if they are using flock of blades bait it and then use ice invulnerability and do your thing after it goes down. 

 

 

An FM who actually has half a brain can cheese out a BM very very easily. Most of the pleb tier FM's I run into while climbing ladder only know how to use guard break which, by the way is a completely pointless skill only used by FM's who go "ermahgerd I can stop them from using block" without even thinking because BM can SS or V out and they either get aerialed for the entire duration of the guard break or they ice counter the 5 point strike and waste it as well. The only way you could use it is if you bait their SS + V and get them iced but that is just wasting your skillpoints because you're too lazy to move behind the BM. There are other plebs who try to Q/E behind you and get a few hits off but if the BM has decent reactions you just 180 and block stun them and they get jacked too which is why you have so many FM's complaining.

 

So what does this look very similar to? The process of baiting out tab escapes..something which is required for most classes to progress beyond low gold.

 

 

 

Edited by Avalyn

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Kyrrua   
1 hour ago, Avalyn said:

Blabla...

 

 

 

So ur just saying that FM is harder to play and that BM is easier to play(against FM).

Its like you're saying :

Part1: Hey FM guys looks its not that hard

Part2: But Hey BM guys look its not that hard to counter either.

Lolz

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Avalyn   

No, what I'm saying is that saying BM counters FM is akin to saying that BM counters Summ because they can tab escape the grapple. Most FM's find it hard to fight BM simply because they are barking up the wrong tree.

Edited by Avalyn

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As sin, all i can say to you without lying, yes i think FMs are a quite weak at pvp (i think that class is for pve, not for pvp), in my case i have no much problems defeating FMs sometimes i beat them 100-0. It feels much pleasure killing them heheh .

 

Well returning to the topic, if you dont like ur actual class all that i can recomend to you is trying change to another class.

Gl

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I don't think this is accurate at all. EU top 50 Diamond has 9 FMs, highest is Sin with 11 and second Destroyer with 10. Can't check NA numbers. Worlds had a pre-nerf Warlock in first but 2nd and 3rd place were FMs. Imperial NA also has a lot of them: http://impbns.com/#standings

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Yashuoa   

Maybe because its one of the harder classes and not one of the OP classes.

Generally people dont want to play something that requires lot of skill, unless it becomes OP at that stage.

 

So the people who play FM are those who enjoy the playstyle and dont mind it being hard + not OP.

 

 

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TakunDes   
9 hours ago, spreequell said:

I don't think this is accurate at all. EU top 50 Diamond has 9 FMs, highest is Sin with 11 and second Destroyer with 10. Can't check NA numbers. Worlds had a pre-nerf Warlock in first but 2nd and 3rd place were FMs. Imperial NA also has a lot of them: http://impbns.com/#standings

These numbers shows nothing really . alot of people make ults then rank them up. actually alot of Sin diamonds are the same person. same with several BMs and FMs

 

 

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Tigeris   

As someone said above, a lot is dependant on ping, but then again, when u get behind a player and u attempt to hit a person in some miraculous way such as a bm (just an example) can either resist or even block an attack, i doubt if that works as inteded. The way i see it, if ur knocked down/stuned or a player is a behind u, there is no way in hell u could resist/block/evade. lol Esp now since new patch, summoners and sins now manage to evade even more while they are invisibile, impact is becoming more and more useless lol.

Fm is far more dependant on landing skills than any other class in game cuz it ain't a mobile class and has only a few skills to deffend.  So when u fail to stun/daze a guy from behind your combo does not even begin and u get punished lol.

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6 hours ago, TakunDes said:

These numbers shows nothing really . alot of people make ults then rank them up. actually alot of Sin diamonds are the same person. same with several BMs and FMs

 

 

Sorry, meant to quote the post directly above me which claimed FM is weak.

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I made a FM lvl 38 so far, Ive had 45 fm before, and always happens the same.

I start, and tbh no class can kill monsters so fast like this one, but, sometimes even with my internet 100% safe from lag, and in game theres no delay or any graphical lag, my FM starts having delaying attacks that can make me get killed very, very easy, all skills are delayed really really bad.

 

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Travasty   
13 hours ago, Yashuoa said:

Maybe because its one of the harder classes and not one of the OP classes.

Generally people dont want to play something that requires lot of skill, unless it becomes OP at that stage.

 

So the people who play FM are those who enjoy the playstyle and dont mind it being hard + not OP.

 

 

something I would like to ask is why melee classes get to turn while frozen? I've had destroyers frozen and tried to kite around them but they just turn to match.

Edit: Also how does the summoners petal storm work?

Edited by Travasty

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Shuchin   

My suspicion is that many players do not like a mobile playstyle - they want to play one dimensionally: approach, retreat, use skills xyz, counter xyz.

But all the forcemasters I meet that own me on my KFM are very mobile and never stop positioning. The ones that don't usually die dramatically.

So in theory: less people PvP with forcemasters because they require a technique unpopular with a majority of players, and those that do anyway lose if they cannot overcome their dislike of moving. ;)

By the way, in this sense KFMs are not very mobile at all. Lots of their "agility" comes from skill use that does the approaching and circling for us. I often notice that when I become lazy and stop positioning myself actively I drop in rank pretty quickly, so this goes for other classes as well. Cna imagine the efect for forcemasters is strongest, though.

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Alison   

For me I havn't done PVP with my main FM since mushin patch. (Stutters and horrible lags) my ping is fine with only 28-34ms but I don't bother and after abstinence I dont really feel to do arena PvP anymore.

I have leveled up Blade Master and find her most suitable vs assassins and KFM (That "wait for CD and 100-0" is BS but at least it works to my advantage)

But BM vs SUM is again unsatisfying. And there are so many of them. ^^

As a Summoner I do a few PvP to learn PvP strategic-wise with some nice HM skills. But another problem here that I need to get advanced dandelion first.

So summoner for me isnt fun at the moment.

Problem here is, that if you are in stealth the DoT CD is reduced to 0.5 seconds. But if my opponent uses the counter for 0.5 seconds in that time I get stunned. (Dont included animation-time distance-wise)

So you need to have both, instant cast and instant counter after successul counter with Dandelion (reset CD for bees)

 

For FM if I really want to be eye to eye with other classes I have to respec for all classes, knowledge is a must. I just feel that it is not rewarding.

Anyone with a FM main knows how it is to respec for certain fights. Me and  I think many of them wanna wait for latest patches (reasons)

 

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Teffy   

Well every damn mele atm get op skill from PVE(the 2 pages skill) while our is PVE skill and the PVP one which is a damn must is locked behind either

A. You quit real life and make 8 chars lvl 50 and gear them enough to do purple dungeons.

B. You quit pvping for 3 months.

C. You are *cricket*ed up and keep pving.

 

....

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On 3/26/2016 at 7:31 AM, Truce said:

FM has like the lowest number of players in arena 1v1 diamond, even though if I ask if FM is strong ppl say yes. 
 
If you say there are less FM players than say summoner/bd/sin/destroyer/kfm, please give proof of this, otherwise it's just speculation. 

I dropped my FM after the 500th time where arena packet loss dropped a skill. I can deal with a dropped skill on pretty much any other class but FM is super reliant on having an exact amount of chill stacks and having the server drop a rmb in the middle of a combo is just bleh. 

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