Blademaster Build Explanations

[Azyael]

The build for the use of Dragon Tongue isn't just switching to dragon tongue and T4S3 Flicker. You need to spec into T3S1 of Lunar Slash (The one that does more dmg).
The whole point of the build is to have consistent DPS while being in draw stance the majority of the time. With Dragon Tongue reducing the cooldown of Lunar slash by 4 seconds you pretty much get a Lunar slash up every 2 dragon tongues.
Another point to make is that when the target is grabbed, cat mounted or kfm mounted Dragon Tongue is spammable and so is Lunar Slash pretty much leading to huge burst.

AND the biggest perk for this build is that you no longer have to run sundering sword so you can spec into more CC. Which for me is a huge plus since I'm tanking most of the time and let me tell you that this dragon tongue build lets me do consistent dps without having to worry about switching back to draw stance because I ran out of focus.

[Enoll]

Ermm guys you got it all wrong... 

You are comparing flicker 1st branch and honed slash vs flicker 3rd branch and dragontongue. 

 

The main burst damage from teh dragontongue (fire build) comes after the dragontongue wehn you go in NORMAL blade stance, because dragontongue gives you a buff for 4 seconds where you can spam/ani cancel RB + LB and combine it with Tab to gain more chi to continue the spam. Here is a video of KG doing and he is still not doing it correctly since he doesn't utilize his tab. 

 

 

And with Legendary LB (first branch) you will be able to spam pierce even more since Pierce will be max speed after crit on LB.

 

Dragontongue deals a lot more than 1k dmg more than honed slash. For instance in yeti 4 with honed slash i deal 6600 -7k dmg with dragon tonue i deal 10-11k. If the target is grappled i can spam Dragontongue dealing nearly 70k++++ dmg within 6 seconds (Q + 4xRB -> SS + 2-3xRB)

[iSorath]

If only you could pull off that speed with anything above 10 ping, because I have like 100 ping + low frame rate during group combat so that's physically impossible for me.

[Enoll]

well we are talking about low ping, people with high ping should adapt to something more suitable.

[OniOfTheSword]

I was messing around with this on training dummies yesterday and I found it quite effective. Specced into T4S3 flicker, Dragontongue, and T3S1 Lunar slash.

 

One very important aspect of this was that every attack of rmb(dragontongue) in draw stance (not just the 4th one) recovered 8 chi over 4 seconds (so that's a total of 32 chi recovery over 4 attacks). Also, tab recovers 6 chi on a critical hit.

 

So I tried a rotation as such (didn't even have blade call up):

4 -> 5x lmb -> rmb -> 5x lmb -> tab -> rmb -> 5x lmb -> rmb -> 5x lmb -> tab ->  lmb until 1-2 chi remains -> rmb -> lmbx2/rmbx3 or more (in basic stance, I don't have the legendary lmb yet).

 

This was incredibly high damage. Now, a large rotation like this wouldn't be possible on a target that moves a lot (Hae Mujin/Poh) or on targets where we would need to dodge/block aoes to avoid large damage, but it's still useful against targets where you can eat a few attacks/CC and keep going (Junghado/Mushin), and the damage can be better than a lightning build.

 

I only tested this in Mushin tower myself, and most of my clear times were similar, if not faster than my lightning build clear times. I might not be playing as efficiently as possible though, since my ping varies between 20 and 150-200 depending on how laggy the servers become, but it's definitely worth checking out. Going flame build also frees up 2 skill points in sundering sword, which already gives you an extra CC in anklebiter with 5m range, and 2 points to put into other CCs/skills.

 

The downside is that my primary CC method for bosses that require double CC (C -> Tab) isn't available anymore, since you would need to take advantage of the T3S1 tab to make the most of this build.

 

[Stormpooper]

9 hours ago, Enoll said:

well we are talking about low ping, people with high ping should adapt to something more suitable.

Sure is easy to have low ping here in Europe. NCSoft gave us a straight "F*ck you" with these servers. I mean, 5-7 relays in both PvE and PvP - I couldn't think of a better way to show how much I don't care about europeans myself. I have to deal with 180-260 ping all the time. My ping only reaches 120-130 in other games even on american servers...

Oni - you're doing it wrong, at least that's what I think. My combo usually goes like this - Q-tab-rmb-F(x3)-rmb-3-rmb-tab-lmb(until rmb is up again)-rmb. When any of the things are on cooldown, I replace them with lmb. I save 4 for grabbed/gripped targets (cause I usually play in a party). If 4 is not on CD, I can get up to 8 dragontongues and lightning draw on grabbed enemy - just imagine how much damage that is and you'll start drooling.

For the CC - you have your anklebiter and 2 extra points to put in boot knockdown. Problem solved.

 

Guys, how many flickers can you get between 2 dragontongues (before you can use it again)? For some reason mine differs from 3 to 7 (*cough*ping*cough*).

[OniOfTheSword]

16 minutes ago, Stormpooper said:

Oni - you're doing it wrong, at least that's what I think. My combo usually goes like this - Q-tab-rmb-F(x3)-rmb-3-rmb-tab-lmb(until rmb is up again)-rmb. When any of the things are on cooldown, I replace them with lmb. I save 4 for grabbed/gripped targets (cause I usually play in a party). If 4 is not on CD, I can get up to 8 dragontongues and lightning draw on grabbed enemy - just imagine how much damage that is and you'll start drooling.

For the CC - you have your anklebiter and 2 extra points to put in boot knockdown. Problem solved.

 

Guys, how many flickers can you get between 2 dragontongues (before you can use it again)? For some reason mine differs from 3 to 7 (*cough*ping*cough*).

The F use for me is kind of situational. If there's a forward aoe coming, I use flash step to get behind to avoid it and use it thrice for the damage.

 

I would suggest that your combo be modified at the beginning as Q->lmb x5 -> Tab, reason being that tab is chi regen, and allows you to stay in draw stance longer. But I suppose we all don't have to necessarily use the same combo. Whatever we're comfortable with.

 

Unless it's for aggro purposes, I save my 3 as an i-frame. If I'm able to start off the fight with cyclone, I'm easily able to hold aggro by using 4 (HM pentagram) and Blade call. And yes, the 2 points in boot is what I would use, but some bosses get up with an aoe attack when knocked down, which is not as ideal as a daze CC.

 

I can get off 5 flickers before dragontongue is on cooldown, which is about 20k damage. 

[Stormpooper]

As I said, I mostly play with parties (and my clan has a very good and active des). So:  3 doesn't hurt; there's no point in having additional i-frames nor prolonging draw stance for me, since 8 seconds is all I need and spamming flicker does not increase my damage output overall; KD is just as good, since if an enemy is CC'ed, the des or sometimes someone else will always take advantage of that and help me get my 8 dragontongues.

And wth 5 flickers 20k? Even if i would get all 5 crits, that would only make 17-18k. which I don't. Just shows how underpowered I am...

Also someone was talking about AoE loss with S3 flicker. When the get HM, we get blade echo on that flicker. So if it stays AoE as it is usually, we won't lose all that much, especially if we get the extra attack speed.

[OniOfTheSword]

22 hours ago, Stormpooper said:

As I said, I mostly play with parties (and my clan has a very good and active des). So:  3 doesn't hurt; there's no point in having additional i-frames nor prolonging draw stance for me, since 8 seconds is all I need and spamming flicker does not increase my damage output overall; KD is just as good, since if an enemy is CC'ed, the des or sometimes someone else will always take advantage of that and help me get my 8 dragontongues.

And wth 5 flickers 20k? Even if i would get all 5 crits, that would only make 17-18k. which I don't. Just shows how underpowered I am...

Also someone was talking about AoE loss with S3 flicker. When the get HM, we get blade echo on that flicker. So if it stays AoE as it is usually, we won't lose all that much, especially if we get the extra attack speed.

True, depending on party composition, different skills and CCs might be to our advantage. My clan doesn't run the tougher dungeons, and I mostly end up F8ing them. And honestly, I've just switched back to lightning build since I'm just able to manage all my skills and chi better there. I might give flame a shot again in the future.

 

The reason I can get 20k from 5 flickers is because I focus on improving crit damage when I reach 50% crit. I'm using the Python bracelet at the moment, which has 12ap and 459 crit dmg, which is a 14% boost to crit damage. I'm also at 50% crit at level 50 HM 6, so my crits are pretty consistent. Using the oathbreaker bracelet is only a 3% increase in crit, which doesn't do as much good as the crit damage does.

 

Agreed on the flicker S3 HM skill. Using blade echo at that speed would be awesome.

[iSorath]

23 hours ago, Stormpooper said:

As I said, I mostly play with parties (and my clan has a very good and active des). So:  3 doesn't hurt; there's no point in having additional i-frames nor prolonging draw stance for me, since 8 seconds is all I need and spamming flicker does not increase my damage output overall; KD is just as good, since if an enemy is CC'ed, the des or sometimes someone else will always take advantage of that and help me get my 8 dragontongues.

And wth 5 flickers 20k? Even if i would get all 5 crits, that would only make 17-18k. which I don't. Just shows how underpowered I am...

Also someone was talking about AoE loss with S3 flicker. When the get HM, we get blade echo on that flicker. So if it stays AoE as it is usually, we won't lose all that much, especially if we get the extra attack speed.

The properties of Blade Echo change per Flicker stage. For S3, Blade Echo is single-target, increased attack speed, 20% life steal.

[CycLee]

33 minutes ago, iSorath said:

The properties of Blade Echo change per Flicker stage. For S3, Blade Echo is single-target, increased attack speed, 20% life steal.

I have no idea where you take that information from. There exists only 1 form of Blade Echo and only one version of Flicker can trigger s this (that's why there is on only one form)

 

The HM Flicker does not exist - nowhere. There are severy HM-Skills on every class that simply does not exist and will never be released in that form (for obvious reasons).

[iSorath]

4 hours ago, CycLee said:

I have no idea where you take that information from. There exists only 1 form of Blade Echo and only one version of Flicker can trigger s this (that's why there is on only one form)

 

The HM Flicker does not exist - nowhere. There are severy HM-Skills on every class that simply does not exist and will never be released in that form (for obvious reasons).

Yes, thank you, we all know HM Flicker is unobtainable. This does not change the fact that you can view the properties of Blade Echo right in your skill tree and see them change depending on which stage of Flicker you have points in.

[GreenCoffee]

I'm using the Dragon tougue build. I find it works better for mobs.  But for boss, it depends.  For bosses that bounce around, it's not very effective or i'm not getting it right.

How do you maintain focus for F1 flicker + honed?

Also, what's this blade mastery stance after 4 uses in the description in the dragon tongue skill?  Someone explained in another thread that you must hit target in 4 different position, 4 different height, and something else and no focus to trigger it.  I find it too mythical for me.  Someone can shed some light? 

[OniOfTheSword]

1 hour ago, GreenCoffee said:

How do you maintain focus for F1 flicker + honed?

Also, what's this blade mastery stance after 4 uses in the description in the dragon tongue skill?  Someone explained in another thread that you must hit target in 4 different position, 4 different height, and something else and no focus to trigger it.  I find it too mythical for me.  Someone can shed some light? 

For lightning build, using blade call is pretty much the only way to have consistently high focus. Otherwise, you'll switch back and forth between stances. Regen chi in basic stance and use it in draw stance.

 

Blade mastery stance is basic stance. The 4 different positions/height was a troll :|

After the 4th use of RMB, you switch to basic stance with a max boost pierce buff for 4 seconds, which is really nice since you're also recovering 2 focus every second.

[Shemie]

@Stormpooper You are forgetting one thing though. I dont know if you changed your mind or if this thread is alive or not, but rmb+lmb is the way to go for tanking. If you wanna play "dps" BM, might aswell reroll. Or get another dpser for your spot. You have legendary now with honed slash +10% dmg, and later legendary soulshields that gives +15% flicker dmg and some extra bonus. This is why its superior to fire in KR at least.

People are forgetting that, just to mention it again - lightning is to control the bossfight and being maintank, since BM is a burster, you just cyclone and sundering sword to anicancel again to deal dps. And on 1st june BMs tanking will be twice as better due to pierce HM. Completely pierces defense and max boost on cyclone. 

[Stormpooper]

Thread was dead; I'm actually using lightning but just because I like it.
I don't see your points anywhere:

tank cyclone is better with fire than lightning since it doesn't give nearly as much focus as F1 and requires parry (tanks go for HM block);

flicker damage won't hurt fire at all;

pierce is more suited for fire style, not lightning;

you can leave your brain afk until you have to use Q/E/SS/block (which will be up much more than with lightning since you stay in draw stance longer);

getting aggro right off the bat isn't hard at all with fire, have you even tried it?

What was the one thing I forgot again? Btw devs didn't say BM is burst only, players decided that.

[MhysaMhysa]

@Stormpooper You probably forgot to mention that honed slash +10% from legendary also work for dragontougue. ;) Actually increased flicker dmg is better for fire than for lightning considering how much more you spam flicker in fire.

[Shemie]

@Stormpooper Ya, I've tried it and didn't like it at all. Pretty sure a good FM can steal aggro from a fire-tank BM or whatever people call it. The thing is that if you're going to be main tank with fire build, you're going to lose more dps with that than lightning regardless.

 

I don't understand your point with cyclone, care to explain? I'm saying that the cyclone that activates when successfully blocking or resisting goes better with pierce, so you can TANK while doing DPS in normal stance. Why would you ever use pierce in normal stance if you're fire? Thats asking for a leg shot. (Screw the buff)

 

I've seen many comparison videos, and it requires fire bm to constantly be attacking to deal more dps than lightning. Lightning must spend 1-2 sec to fully recover chi, then to anicancel again. So you're spending less attacks in lightning against fire, whos the winner in tanking then?  

 

By the time we catch up to other regions, you'll see why lightning is superior. 

 

Let me ask you again, why would you play a BM if you're not going to tank? Tanking as fire will do less dps than tanking with lightning. 

[Ted95On]

So is Lightning better on KR nowadays? Everyone I see uses lightning on KR even though everyone says that Fire is better (at least ATM) on NA/EU. On this video for example and it's recent he's using Lightning. Also I can't tell which legendary he's using Bateful or Seraph. Maybe if Lightning gets better it'd be worth going for Seraph and not Bateful in the long run.

 

 

 

[Shemie]

27 minutes ago, Ted95On said:

So is Lightning better on KR nowadays? Everyone I see uses lightning on KR even though everyone says that Fire is better (at least ATM) on NA/EU. On this video for example and it's recent he's using Lightning. Also I can't tell which legendary he's using Bateful or Seraph. Maybe if Lightning gets better it'd be worth going for Seraph and not Bateful in the long run.

 

 

 

He is probably using elemental legendary (which we dont have yet). If you play on KR and you see everybody using lightning but they say fire is better, have you tried asking for which situation? Koreans are machine man, the pixelperfect anicancel due to the ping, perfect tanks. What more could you ask for? LOL

[Ted95On]

By seeing I mean videos. I play on NA/EU and people use Fire for the most part. I have higher ping on NA so I've been using fire and it's a lot better in that case, more dps and easier to keep aggro. On EU I have low ping and can use Lightning pretty well so I can't tell if Fire is really better except for the obvious infinite chi which helps for stuff like SSP.

[DannyMayCry]

It's all about ping. Yeah if you have lower ping you can say Lightning is better but what about those with high ping? Still wanna say Lightning is better?