Blademaster Build Explanations

[iSorath]

Since the patch, I've been switching between Honed Slash and Dragontongue and I can't really tell which is better. The chi regen on Dragontongue combined with T4S3 Flicker spam seems pretty solid, which leads to my next point: why does everybody prefer T4S1 Flicker? T4S3 has the attack speed bonus and slightly higher damage after the increase from continual use, so I don't really understand why people mock T4S3 so much. In places like Mushin's Tower, being able to CC and use 3/V for chi regen definitely gives T4S1 Flicker + Honed Slash faster clear time, but against 6/4-man dungeon bosses I don't really understand it.

[Stormpooper]

I actually ran into the same problem. T4S3 probably was a lot worse before the update, but right now I started to use it just because i have low FPS. I just tested both on dummies in Mushin's tower. While I have pretty much infinite focus, the ani-cancel does more damage, however, you don't have to worry about focus at all with S3 and Dragontongue. If you cannot get enough focus or don't have the FPS/ping for ani-cancel, I suggest you choose S3. As an added bonus, Dragontongue does massive damage on grabbed/gripped targets (~30k in 2 seconds (50% crit and 428 AP)).

[GilgameshPrime]

8 hours ago, iSorath said:

Since the patch, I've been switching between Honed Slash and Dragontongue and I can't really tell which is better. The chi regen on Dragontongue combined with T4S3 Flicker spam seems pretty solid, which leads to my next point: why does everybody prefer T4S1 Flicker? T4S3 has the attack speed bonus and slightly higher damage after the increase from continual use, so I don't really understand why people mock T4S3 so much. In places like Mushin's Tower, being able to CC and use 3/V for chi regen definitely gives T4S1 Flicker + Honed Slash faster clear time, but against 6/4-man dungeon bosses I don't really understand it.

1st things first, flicker S1 vs S3: S1 does more dmg than S3 even after the acceleration AND its a ranged aoe skill, you can use S1 outside the bosses 6m-8m aoes while he is castig it while S3 you need to be right  under him to deal dmg. 2nd : Honed vs Dragontongue... dragontongue its not a dps skill simple, you can ani cancel with Honed which deals 1k less dmg than dragon but its spammable ALSO it cuts the cd of flash step which is 1 of the main burst/ dps skills also. BM´s main source of dmg is the anicancel Honed+ flicker since we are a burst class thats our dps mainly after a burst cd.

[Stormpooper]

However there are very few opportunities to do damage with ani-cancel whereas fire is constant damage. Most AoEs can be resisted without having to retreat and stop DPSing. Also Flash step does ~20k damage total, not that important. Also, if you are in a party that has someone who can grab/grip, you will love dragontongue. I get 40k damage in 2 seconds during the grab. Just try it.

[Marrian]

I did a lot of tests when new patch came out. Flicker S3 + Dragon Tongue combo actually does more DPS than old build because you can continously spamming it with almost infinite focus regen at masssively inscreased attack speed. You can even combine Lunar Slash within this combo seemlessly to increase DPS (anti-cancel using Flicker S3) thanks for Lunar slash cooldown reduction when using Dragon Tongue. But like you said, flicker S3 has limited range, and when you use this skill while moving it decrease its boost Atk speed a lot. So in real fight, its not ideally as effective as the old build. Mobs and bosses will not just stand there for you to hit, and you have to move yourself to void their attacks. Unless NCSoft increase range of Flicker S3 or keeps it boost atk speed smoothly while moving, this build will just be there for fun. Just my 2 cents.

[GilgameshPrime]

3 minutes ago, Stormpooper said:

However there are very few opportunities to do damage with ani-cancel whereas fire is constant damage. Most AoEs can be resisted without having to retreat and stop DPSing. Also Flash step does ~20k damage total, not that important. Also, if you are in a party that has someone who can grab/grip, you will love dragontongue. I get 40k damage in 2 seconds during the grab. Just try it.

Maybe urs, but mine does 35-40k dmg atm ( flash step ), it might be fun to play with it but it isnt viable in a dung full of mobs and /or bosses running around and jumping. lacks the range still and will lose dps over time.

[Stormpooper]

I haven't noticed a decrease in attack speed. Though that's probably because I mostly move around with Q, E+4, or turn around+SS. Also Lunar slash will be much better when we get HM - then we can use it 3 times in a row in exchange for 3 times the cooldown. Perfect for Dragontongue.

[iSorath]

5 hours ago, GilgameshPrime said:

1st things first, flicker S1 vs S3: S1 does more dmg than S3 even after the acceleration AND its a ranged aoe skill, you can use S1 outside the bosses 6m-8m aoes while he is castig it while S3 you need to be right  under him to deal dmg. 2nd : Honed vs Dragontongue... dragontongue its not a dps skill simple, you can ani cancel with Honed which deals 1k less dmg than dragon but its spammable ALSO it cuts the cd of flash step which is 1 of the main burst/ dps skills also. BM´s main source of dmg is the anicancel Honed+ flicker since we are a burst class thats our dps mainly after a burst cd.

No, accelerated S3 absolutely does more damage than both S1 and Blade Echo, atleast for me. I tested it for roughly five minutes on a dummy in Mushin's Tower and these are my results:

S1 Flicker: 2700-2840 crit

S1 Blade Echo: 3050~3190 crit

S3 Flicker: 3150~3300 crit ( + higher attack speed)

 

I absolutely understand that the Flash Step cooldown decrease is important, but I just don't see it as usable. How are you maintaining focus to use more than 3-4 Honed Slashes outside of Blade Call and then having to sit and wait for either Q or 4 to come off cooldown before you can do it again?  Additionally, Dragontongue Reduces the cooldown of Lunar Slash which at T3S1 is about the damage of 2nd Flash Step and a free Pierce boost. 

 

Honed Slash clearly offers greater burst, but I just don't see how you can generate enough focus to make it better than Dragontongue + S3 Flicker over a long fight.

[Stormpooper]

Btw when we get HM Flicker, Blade echo will have the attack speed of S3 Flicker right (if we pick HM flicker S3 ofc)? Also Blade echo crit deals much more damage.

[GilgameshPrime]

Well then our numbers are quite different, my S3 deals 3.6k crits while my S1 deals 4.3k crits. but its a matter of taste, i tested both builds on skypetal mobsthe ones with 330k hp and i kill them faster with honned+S1, both builds are situational thou, dragontongue would waste its effectiveness if none in my pt can grab for the extra dmg, S3 increase dmg resets the procs if i step back from a boss and get out of range.. too many variables that doesnt appeal me, but each uses what they like honestly. what i see is that honed+S1 is for group pts, dgs in general/ dragon+S3 solo stuff, bosses, solo dgs and mushin. each has its perks for each content.

[877567_1452550445]

Does anyone have a link to a good pve build for level 46 with only 1 extra HM point unlocked? I am having some trouble after the update. Thanks.

[iSorath]

I may have gotten my damage numbers wrong because of weapon crit damage buff, oops. S3 crits were only doing about 2900-3000 without the crit buff, so still slightly higher damage than S1 but less damage than Blade Echo. I guess I'll do some more testing in actual party runs and see which build I like better.

[Mevelios]

3 hours ago, Stormpooper said:

Btw when we get HM Flicker, Blade echo will have the attack speed of S3 Flicker right (if we pick HM flicker S3 ofc)? Also Blade echo crit deals much more damage.

Blade echo changes depending which flicker you're using. I think we all know the usual AoE blade echo from flicker S1, but through flicker S3, blade echo is turned into a monotarget skill dealing ~20% more damages than flicker S3, but getting in addition a 20% leech perk. Monotarget skill, so no AoE, meaning 3m range.

 

From my few tests in mushin's tower (5F & 7F in mind in particular) as well as against dummies, flicker S3 + dragontongue definitely deals more damages than flicker S1 & honed slash. That requires however using lunar slash as much as possible, since honed slash T2S1 reduces flash step's CD. Few things I noted, though that's more a feeling than a certitude:

 

-Dragontongue is a damn long cast, but can be ani-cancelled at some point (takes a little more time than the usual ani-cancel of honed slash so my timing is regularly off, feels like 0.1 or 0.2s more, really not sure about this one since it was a feeling).

-Dragontongue having a 2.5s CD, once your target is hit by your blade storm, your burst is inferior to ani-cancelled honed slashes (even though dragontongue also benefits from blade storm).

-CDs between two dragontongues are perfect to land a full five-point strike or flash step, but losing the timing is rather easy, making it less efficient.

-Flicker T4S1 still deals individually more damages than S3, but T4S3 bonus damages over consecutive uses make S3 stronger, even without considering the higher attack speed from S3.

-For those having a slow network such as me, enabling skill queueing  (in your game options) and doing it with flicker S3 to counter our damn slow network can turn into a weakness, since any defensive maneuver may be delayed due to one too many S3 flicker in your queueing.

 

TL;DR For a burst, T4S1 flicker + honed slash > T4S3 flicker + dragontongue; over time, S3+dragon > S1+slash.

3 hours ago, Marrian said:

But like you said, flicker S3 has limited range, and when you use this skill while moving it decrease its boost Atk speed a lot.

I had the same feeling as well. Stormpooper said (s)he didn't, could anybody else (dis)confirm it?

 

3 hours ago, iSorath said:

How are you maintaining focus to use more than 3-4 Honed Slashes outside of Blade Call and then having to sit and wait for either Q or 4 to come off cooldown before you can do it again?

Five-point strike or lunar slash while in draw stance, but don't waste them if you're already at full focus. One skill point in raid, if you can afford it, allows 2 focus recovery. Before switching, you already spoke of blade call, but there's also sundering sword (S3 of anklebiter) and cyclone (cyclone S1 means 5 free honed slashes, only the consumption of flicker remains, which is countered by a crit of honed slash if it's at least at T1). Evade (the backstep) also recovers one focus, that you forgot to mention for switching into draw stance (requires its only skill point). And if it isn't enough, there's still the focus recovery from your weapon! Having all of this, I rarely am forced to switch back to basic stance due to a lack of focus. Only happens once or twice per minute during a boss fight, unless I have to deflect/block or use one of my blindsides.

[Stormpooper]

I just went around bogside camp killing mobs with flicker and I definitely felt a decrease in attack speed twice but that isn't because of moving. I circled around mobs both clockwise and counter-clockwise.

[MoKo0]

9 hours ago, Mevelios said:

-For those having a slow network such as me, enabling skill queueing  (in your game options) and doing it with flicker S3 to counter our damn slow network can turn into a weakness, since any defensive maneuver may be delayed due to one too many S3 flicker in your queueing.
 

@Mevelios Where do you find the skill queuing option ? I didn't find anything like that and I think that would help A LOT of people actually :)

[Mevelios]

2 hours ago, MoKo0 said:

@Mevelios Where do you find the skill queuing option ? I didn't find anything like that and I think that would help A LOT of people actually :)

Game options > Camera tab > Mouseover options, tick the first one (repeated actions on key hold).

Unless it really is my network acting up, it works as a skill queueing. It reads "on key hold", but it feels like it applies to other hotkeys as well. Can't tell for sure but that's the feeling I get while playing! Otherwise I'm way too used to pings around 200 ms. x)

[Els]

It's not skill queuing, when i'm lagging and use Flicker S3, i can see that it is very slow compared to when i'm not lagging.

[Mevelios]

Just as I said, I can't tell for sure it works as a proper skill queueing, but that's the feeling I get; thing I'm sure of is my S3 flickers keep being sent at full speed while lagging even when I'm smashing my block hotkey, so that block gets delayed due to unwanted additional flicker casts (and it happens rather frequently, that's why I rather switch back to honed slash & S1 flicker, in comparison my blocks don't feel delayed). That's why it makes me think of skill queueing, but if there's any technical reason behind this, I know next to nothing about IT so forgive my lack of knowledge! :)

[MoKo0]

Thank you for the explanation :)

 

It was already checked in my options, so no help for lag here, also playing on 150-200ms :S

Can't imagine playing with even more lag o_O

 

 

[Mevelios]

While we're on the topic of flicker S3, a question derived from what the patch note ( http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/silverfrost-mountains-patch-notes/ ) reads for our class:

"Flicker (Tier 4 Stage 3) can now grant additional damage and increase attack speed to other skills."

 

Am I misunderstanding it, or from what was noted, this new flicker is supposed to relay both additional attack speed & damages to the following skill used (which would not necessarily be another flicker)? I'm having doubts on this if it really has been implemented, as I never felt it while playing. Or is there a specific threshold (or limit) to the number of uses so that this "buff transfer" can take place?

[Stormpooper]

I saw this too, tried testing it with several skills and didn't notice anything like that. My guess is NCSoft is too stupid to think of writing "grant additional damage and increase the attack speed of Blade echo". Blade echo would make perfect sense, since if you had a high critical rate, the extra damage from continuous flickers would stop and *cricket* your damage as well as your attack speed.

[DeadZeus]

Ani canceling flicker and honed slash is MORE dps then Dragontongue atk speed flicker without a doubt.

tested a few times in Mushin, my clears were significantly slower with Dragontongue.

[Els]

Dragontongue requires a 'grab' ability in order to truly shine. Later we will be able to use it with no CD if we use blade swarm, but the dmg bonus is lower than with 'grab'. 

[Stormpooper]

19 hours ago, DeadZeus said:

Ani canceling flicker and honed slash is MORE dps then Dragontongue atk speed flicker without a doubt.

tested a few times in Mushin, my clears were significantly slower with Dragontongue.

You don't just change a build and instantly master it. It's undeniable that the initial blade call burst with honed slash is superior, however, if we put that vs Dragontongue+grab (and later HM Lunar slash) the 2nd would win. With my 435 AP and 182% (yes.) critical hit damage a single hit is ~11-12k.
 

Also, does anyone else experience changes in Flicker speed? At times, mostly probably due to fps drops and ping it's almost as slow as normal flicker, but sometimes it is almost twice as fast as the constant flickers on dummies, going up to 2+ flickers a second. Though so far the latter only happened in dungeons.

[iSorath]

I tried using Dragontongue + S3 on Mushin's Pain for the hell of it during my daily tower, and in one try with plenty of mistakes (got grabbed twice) I beat my best ever clear time using Honed + S1 by roughly 15 seconds. Just tossing this in here for some additional thinking.