ThunderGod

Losing Gem Socket when upgrading to oathbreaker!

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vita   

I clearly remember that it was mention in either one of the stream or twitter that we would not lose a gems slot when upgrading weapon in Silverfrost patch, but seems like even NCSoft themselves can't get the right information about it. 

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myuna   

  This is what happens when content is rushed out, especially from a small team who are not fully aware of all its contents, they do look at some things and change them to go with their own business model but I guess they dont see the knock on effects of every change or some things are missed completely, with this problem and also previously concerning the Fabric, Costume pouches and many other things

 

 Their answer is "this is how it was designed to work and this is how it is in other version" which to a point is true  and I am fine with that, but every other version has a different business model also and although small things are different things do work out in the end,  I think this issue was completely overlooked or rather the availability in game of Gem Hammers,  nearly 3 weeks ago Jonathan Lien did state we would not be getting this system, so it was obviously known how it worked and they had obviously discussed it  which is fair enough, but now we have the patch and this issue is becoming known they seem to be totally unaware it was in game all answers have been "we are not sure" " we will have some info soon " etc

 

 Personally I dont mind and I'd prefer to have the exact same version as others do but for it to work as intended it would have to include what items are available in game and at the same availability too. this is were it is going wrong.

Edited by myuna

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Sitruuna   

I didn't read all the messages in this thread, but just came to say that I also got this problem and feel frustated to having spent my money for nothing. I would be happy if NCsoft would even refund the Ncoins. I sent a message to game support, look what they said:

 

This is what I sent:

[removed]

The answer:

[removed: please refrain from posting customer support tickets on the forums.]

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myuna   
2 hours ago, Sitruuna said:

I didn't read all the messages in this thread, but just came to say that I also got this problem and feel frustated to having spent my money for nothing. I would be happy if NCsoft would even refund the Ncoins. I sent a message to game support, look what they said:

 

This is what I sent:

 

The answer:

 

[removed] LMAO, you buy something from the cash shop then they take it away with no warnings or information what so ever,  GG NC blatant robbery, pretty sure Consumer rights will love this ! I know for a fact the law is on the consumers side with shady practises like this.

 

 

EDIT: GG NC, he did not even post the support ticket replies only a transcript, anyways have it screenshot for future reference, its already posted on Reddit anyways so good luck with that.

 

Edited by myuna

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The more I think about this... the more I start resenting the system. It really leaves a bad taste in your mouth. 

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Saksoy   

I can guarantee you that NC have themselves covered in their terms agreement that you accept after logging in. So stop getting your knickers wet about this.

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Elvenmad   
4 minutes ago, Saksoy said:

I can guarantee you that NC have themselves covered in their terms agreement that you accept after logging in. So stop getting your knickers wet about this.

Really.   ToS mean absolutely nothing in the eyes of the law,  Law is Law, the ToS are only a contract between you and the company in question, the law still stands above anything they put in their ToS.  Anything which involves a cash transaction is covered buy Consumer Rights and that is all that would be recognised in a court of law or a any legal action.

 

 

Edited by Elvenmad

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Can confirm (yet again) that the gem sockets WE PAID to unlock are being reset by the Oathbreaker upgrade path.  It even says in the transformation window that gem sockets will be reset.  I don't want the hammers back.  I want the SOCKET BACK.  I PAID FOR IT.  Give it back to me.  If you fail to fix this and do right by your customers I guaran-f*cking-tee I will never buy another gem hammer again.  I will intentionally and willingly handicap my characters until this is fixed AND the item I PURCHASED is returned.

 

@Hime @Rukkirii This is straight up theft.  It's not even fraud or misleading, it's just textbook theft.  What do your lawyers have to say about it?  Do they even know?  You might want to bring it up with them, because this is exactly the sort of BS that snowballs into a class action.  You have a golden opportunity to avoid all that, but will you?  Please do the right thing.

 

Edited by Profyrion

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Kadirra   
On 3/28/2016 at 9:11 AM, AveryCloseCall said:

We understand that this is not a positive player experience for those players who feel this, and we are looking into options to rectify this issue for affected players. At this point, we cannot share specific details as to how this will be accomplished but we remain committed to the idea that reasonable and informed players shouldn’t feel reason to regret their purchases. The technical details of how we address this will take some time to determine, but we will keep you updated when we have made more progress.

 

In the meantime, we have requested additional messaging within the game that will advise players of this process, better inform how Gem Hammers work, as well as evaluate a system change that will require much more consideration.

 

Thank you for your understanding. We will be sure to provide an update when we have more information as soon as it is available.

They are saying they're "looking into options rectify the issue for affected players", and they'll keep us updated. The only thing I'm concerned about is how long it takes to rectify it, because MMO players that spend real life money aren't notoriously patient when they feel they're being cheated or ripped off or whatnot.

 

Still, I'm really glad they're actually going to get additional messaging to prevent this issue from happening to future players, and possibly even change the system entirely so it can't/won't happen to people in the future. Just have to do the 'wait and see' thing for now, and hope that they come through for their customers who were affected/are affected/will be affected by this matter.

 

 

Edited by Kadirra

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myuna   
55 minutes ago, GlowLight said:

maybe just buy another gem socket? it really isn't that expensive.

 Seriously !!               well at Oathbreaker it requires three so thats another 10$ on top of the previous 10$ you spent for the one they removed, also what if you purchased six Hammers and unlocked 2 slots and the weapon evolves with only two, you would lose two sockets , that's 20$ YOU paid for nothing, and it is not really about the money as much as the fact they did not even seem to know this socket reroll system was even in the game, in fact pre patch they said it would not be, and on top of all that the Gem Hammers are not tooltiped that they could be consumed, 

 

 It is the whole principle behind what they are doing, or rather what they are not doing, it just is not right which ever way you look at it. If they knew this system was coming into the game it should for a start have been in the patch notes, which it was not and there should be some were a clear explanation of how it works, and there still is not !!!!

 

Edited by myuna

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Domriana   
1 hour ago, GlowLight said:

maybe just buy another gem socket? it really isn't that expensive.

Ladies and Gentlemen. This right here is why modern western game companies are consistently doing things like this.

 

It's like an entire demographic of Stockholm Syndrome and Apathy.

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khynnea   
On 3/28/2016 at 9:11 AM, AveryCloseCall said:

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. With the Silverfrost Mountains update, during the weapon upgrade process after True Profane, the number of unlocked gem sockets available on your weapon are randomized when transitioning to the new progression system. What this means is that you can either lose, gain, or experience no change on your weapon’s gem sockets. This is by design and experienced in all versions of Blade & Soul. However, for those that have invested in unlocking an additional slot with Gem Hammers, this can feel unfair.

 

We understand that this is not a positive player experience for those players who feel this, and we are looking into options to rectify this issue for affected players. At this point, we cannot share specific details as to how this will be accomplished but we remain committed to the idea that reasonable and informed players shouldn’t feel reason to regret their purchases. The technical details of how we address this will take some time to determine, but we will keep you updated when we have made more progress.

 

In the meantime, we have requested additional messaging within the game that will advise players of this process, better inform how Gem Hammers work, as well as evaluate a system change that will require much more consideration.

 

Thank you for your understanding. We will be sure to provide an update when we have more information as soon as it is available.

 

As I see it at this point, from the point of view of a consumer attempting to be calm, patient and contain irateness, a truly fair course of action would be to remove the RNG in the gem sockets during transformation once paid goods and services have been applied to a weapon. Another course of action would be to reimburse in-game currency spent on such weapons. And I am glad to see you mention "additional messaging within the game" -- I cannot emphasize enough that I would not have purchased these items had appropriate messaging existed.

 

The bottom line here is that this issue does not "seem unfair" to me, it *is* unfair. You sold me a good/service and then put me in a situation where if I proceed in the game naturally, I will lose that good/service. Do you know what would happen to my cable or telephone provider if they did that to me?

 

You have asked for time. In a reasonable and polite world, it is fair to give you a reasonable amount of time. I have asked for compensation for the $28 dollars I have spent on these goods and services which you have sold me which I would never have purchased under the present conditions. I would continue with the "real world" analogies of how other companies would respond in these situations, to help level set expectations, but I know you probably have these services too and have expectations for what would happen to *you* in similar situations.

 

However, when it comes to "reasonable amounts of time," keep in mind that thus far there are a number of on-going concerns in the game which have demonstrated a lack of timeliness on the part of management. I do not refer to some of the Sisyphean tasks you see on the forums (such as removing bots); but I do refer to for example providing email services to alts of the same character -- something *still* documented as a working feature, that as a programmer myself seems a relatively easy fix. This has been known not to be working since day 1. It remains documented as a feature. It has not been fixed. It may also seem to nudge people into subscribing or paying if they *really* want to mail things to alts without trading through a friend. Either fix it, publish a timeline for a fix, or remove it as a documented feature -- these actions build confidence or at least level set expectation.

 

To me, as a customer, this is the kind of thing that leaves me to believe that my $28 will be in limbo for *months*.

 

And honestly, that's not acceptable.

 

My last reply from support was, to paraphrase, "we understand where you are coming from but our hands are tied and we can't do anything for you." This is, also, unacceptable.

5 hours ago, GlowLight said:

maybe just buy another gem socket? it really isn't that expensive.

No.

 

It is this attitude which helps companies think that they can get away with lazy QA or questionable business practices and the very situations that led us here in the first place.

4 hours ago, Domriana said:

Ladies and Gentlemen. This right here is why modern western game companies are consistently doing things like this.

It's like an entire demographic of Stockholm Syndrome and Apathy.

Correct, and people who tolerate this sort of behavior encourage and perpetrate it. They are complicit in it.

 

I will not tolerate it. There is a difference between buying something and just not liking it or enjoying it or ultimately having buyer's remorse, and buying something and finding out it was not as advertised at all, or buying some good or service and having it surreptitiously rescinded or altered by the provider at a later date. In maintaining a level tone, I am not using too strong language -- but there are other words for such behavior by companies. This behavior should not be tolerated, and "rectification" should occur. In fact, better words would be "compensation" or "reimbursement."

 

 

 

Edited by khynnea

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Mishi   

Hopefully they get the issue resolved quicker than the "missing" premium points gained from items on sale, and many of us losing out premium points we had gained in Jan. with a botched patch in Feb. (Still waiting to  have that fixed.)

 

Now the gem sockets, and finding out I wasted real life money is annoying. 

 

oh the list gets longer as time goes by. 

 

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Arohk   

i lost one gem Hammer on my warlock because of this, but what i find even more annoying is that i now need 5 hammers to get the Socket back. what the hell.

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Kadirra   

I'm hoping they come back with something more about this before the week is out, personally. I know things take time, but it'd be nice to know what they intend to do for folks affected.

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myuna   

Silence...............personally just what I expected.  If they keep quiet and maybe rework the system, make gem hammers drop in game now, which they have and quietly hotfix it into the game then they are not admitting anything was at fault or wrong, so they are not Liable,  they have already removed any replies they have made concerning this matter which would do this.

 

 Best busines strat , keep quiet and wait for it to go away ^ ^

 

 Apparently when evolving from Profane to Oathbreaker your socket slots get rerolled, also Evolving from True Pirate to Breeze Rerolls them too, this is only player deducted from experience has we still DONT have any official explanation how this works 5 days after patch !!!

 

One player posted on Reddit he Evolved from True Pirate with 4 sockets to Breeze and ended up with 1 socket, he included screenshots and it then require 5 hammers per Socket.

 

Edited by myuna

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khynnea   

The "additional messaging within the game that will advise players of this process" in fact was included in today's update. 

 

Originally, this description read:  "This item can only be purchased five times per account each day."

 

Now, the description reads as follows:

 

"The number of Gem Hammers required to unlock a gem slot varies depending on the particular weapon, the slot being unlocked, and may increase as the weapon advances. Gem slots may be reset or lost at certain advanced points in a weapon's upgrade path. This item can only be purchased five times per account each day."

 

I applaud the alacrity with which this change was made -- one update cycle. Now future customers can make a more informed decision about such purchases and realize that they may essentially be throwing money away, or at the very least *choose* to spend that money for the relative enhancement gained in the interim.

 

I eagerly await a substantial reason why I cannot receive reimbursement for my previous purchases made spread out over a mere *fifteen* in game days prior to this change.

 

 

 

Edited by khynnea

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Danofin   

Just got a reply from Customer Service that this was working as intended.  Came to forum and found out it's a huge issue.  I'll be forwarding what I got to the BBB and others I know to see about the legality of this.  I would post it here, but it seems people are getting censored.  Another key sign they don't want people to realize this is a massive issue, and not just an isolated incident.

 

This is criminal business practice.  lol, and some people say 'just buy another'....  Sad.

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khynnea   
8 minutes ago, Danofin said:

Just got a reply from Customer Service that this was working as intended.  Came to forum and found out it's a huge issue.  I'll be forwarding what I got to the BBB and others I know to see about the legality of this.  I would post it here, but it seems people are getting censored.  Another key sign they don't want people to realize this is a massive issue, and not just an isolated incident.

This is criminal business practice.  lol, and some people say 'just buy another'....  Sad.

I have been politely and steadfastedly attempting to resolve this through NCSoft's own channels, as is my *preference* for trying to be "fair." They seem to have exhausted themselves on my fairness, however, and seem recalcitrant with respect to doing anything that *I* was taught might be just in this situation, at least in a reasonably timely fashion.

 

I don't care if they have to negotiate with the owners/developers of the software for a long term fix, Corporate home office should be making financial amends or offering an act of good faith by now of *some* sort. The wording they put in the store as of today is a placeholder to allow the status quo to be perpetuated ad infinitum while we sit around and never get compensated for wrongs done.

 

However, I will say I have cancelled my subscription as of today as a result of this treatment. If they can manage to make amends, we can go from there.

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Danofin   

Exactly.  I went through the 'proper' channels first.  I've informed my guild and alliance of their actions, and response, and advised them to hold off on hammers and upgrading if possible, until something is figured out to 'correct' NCSoft's criminal behavior.

 

It's been over a week now of the latest outbreak, but, this has been a problem in the past as well.  They did nothing then.  They put a band-aide now.  And will likely, as you say, just let the band-aide be the fix until we don't notice it anymore.  BUT!  We shall see.

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Elvenmad   

This was expected to be honest,  a slight cheap easy to do fix, that just 'gloss's' over it in a meaningless way then to hope it goes away.. like they usually do. It still does not clearly inform of how or why these recent changes were made, even more importantly at what stage of weapon Evolve this happens,  also still no response concerning the previous week and all players who paid real cash for gem hammers totally unaware of these new changes, which I may add I believe NCwest themselves were unaware it was in the last patch also, but that is NOT the customers fault .

 

Edited by Elvenmad

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Kadirra   

This: " We understand that this is not a positive player experience for those players who feel this, and we are looking into options to rectify this issue for affected players. At this point, we cannot share specific details as to how this will be accomplished but we remain committed to the idea that reasonable and informed players shouldn’t feel reason to regret their purchases. "

 

This quote is why I still hold out faith that those affected WILL be taken care of and treated fairly in some fashion, whether by gemhammer or Ncoin reimbursement, or care packages of some value, or BOTH to retain loyal customers. I haven't lost faith in NCsoft completely, and really would like to believe customers that were upset will be more than happy with the resolution that is reached. I hope for this. I really do hope.

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It's really flipping ridiculous that they havent just calculated what people lost and given them an amount of gem hammers that would regain the number of sockets they lost. (Example: say they only had to spend 1 hammer per slot when they upgraded... NOW they need 5 per slot. Simple fix is to give them the 5 hammers per slot they had unlocked so that they are equal to where they once were). THESE ARE DIGITAL ITEMS, its not some great loss or hit to NCSoft to just hand them out like candy to those who bought them with the thought that they would be permanent. There is no "cost" in giving away digital items... they are pixels ffs... ease up NCSoft! 

 

Then, even if going forward they decide to stick with the RNG gem slots per upgrade, at least they fixed the problem of those who feel really ripped off. The good will generated from treating people well would earn them a lot more money in the long run. 

 

Overall though, I REALLY hope they take this feature out of the game. Or they could make it a perk of being premium that your gem slots are safe from RNG if they just HAVE to keep it. It's just a terrible way of doing things though. People work hard in game to get these upgrades... you shouldnt have a chance of making your weapon WORSE. It makes me not want to upgrade at all. Hell... the RNG aspect makes me not want to PLAY at all... and that IS a loss for NCSoft's wallet as I am already rank 6 premium and had every intention of continuing to spend more money with them. This level of sheer greed and customer mistreatment drives me away though. 

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myuna   

 They have got their money.......so now they dont care, issue now solved and closed.

If players were taking their money , now that would be an entirelly different story.

 

Stiil waiting for the follow up Info from Jonathan Lien, from a week ago, and to be honest dont really expect there will be any, they have moved on now, and this matter will soon disappear out of people's minds.

 

 

 

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