Losing Gem Socket when upgrading to oathbreaker!

[Elvenmad]

32 minutes ago, Bezerko said:

This sounds an awful lot like the outfit pouch fiasco.  They don't really disclose that you're using real money for something you may end up losing / not getting.

Exactly that was another issue that was not clearly tooltiped, it was obviously completely overlooked by NC that in other versions you could breakdown costumes that dropped in game, In this version having to breakdown purchased cash shop costumes for a consumed material with a random chance to fail is absolutely ludicrous. 

 

Issue we have here is 'if' they admit the Gem hammer situation is not as intended then what is going to happen to all the players who have lost sockets and had to purchase more, they would require compensating for a start and to make it even worse the longer the issue is left the worse it is going to be.

 

 In my opinion the fault is the rushing of content, and more to the point it is content that is not fully checked to make sure it all works with this versions business model, I imagine it will all be worked out in the end, but how long is it going to take ? and how many players are leaving the game due to issues like these.

 

 I myself have started playing back on CN servers these issues dont help here, but it is more because of the optimisation, the game plays far far better for me there, on servers 5000 miles away ! and I know it is heavy P2W but at least I know were I stand and I know what I'm getting there,  I would still like the western versions to succeed eventually but personally after coming from another version of the game ours does not seem to be doing very well and issues like these and the lack of communication concerning them dont incite faith. 

 

Also I can confirm in other versions, not sure of all of them, but Gem Hammers (although they have a different name) can be crafted from fragment drops and they also used to drop from a daily quest and the daily dash also if your really stuck they were in the cash shop too.

 

 

[Kadirra]

The folks at NCsoft really need to respond at some point and address this issue. It's affecting more and more people. 

[GenesisAria]

Holy crap, i didn't think about this, that's pretty BS.  I'm glad i wasn't anywhere near upgrading to this yet.

[myuna]

 "If" they fix this they will do it quietly in an update this way they do not have to admit or deny it is not working as intended and they still make cash from it.

   

I am sure they are aware of it along with the many other issues they seem to be totally oblivious off, This is how this company rolls,  if there is an issue which costs the players it gets ignored while if there is an issue which cost them its insta hotfixed or temporarily removed from game, its not like this has not happened before

[Hope for Fairness]

I heard later (an uprage in the oathbreaker way) there will be a 4th slot for free (like the 3rd slot after blight upgrade) ... so everyone "losing" their place will get it later back "for free".

 

I know at the release there was no warning during the upgrade to oathbreaker, but now ingame you cannot upgrade to oathbreaker, as long as you wear 4 gems. And if you really put a gem out to upgrade to oathbreaker, you could be prepared, to lose that gem slot. But since the Siren way is still available, just never change arunning system and use the Siren way. The Siren way is also cheaper from material.

[Elvenmad]

46 minutes ago, Hope for Fairness said:

 

I know at the release there was no warning during the upgrade to oathbreaker, but now ingame you cannot upgrade to oathbreaker, as long as you wear 4 gems. And if you really put a gem out to upgrade to oathbreaker, you could be prepared, to lose that gem slot. But since the Siren way is still available, just never change arunning system and use the Siren way. The Siren way is also cheaper from material.

As posted earlier there was this from the Assistant Producer who you would think knew what was coming in the game and how things work:

 

Babbletr0n

starting at Oathbreaker (Devil) the amount of gem slots will not be re-rolled on upgrading and you do not need to remove your gems

EDIT: Before people start quoting this, I'm going to do a full investigation to make sure this is 100% accurate

 

So yeah, who knows what is happening? 

[Kadirra]

Just saw this on @Babbeltr0n 's twitter when someone asked about this thread:  "Confirmed with the dev team that this is by design, it's the same in other regions as well "

 

Hoping they actually post here, but this is very disappointing. They didn't even tell anyone this was going to happen. No warning. No notes to tell people this situation was now in play.

 

They really need to post something in this thread and some manner of clarification about the way things work with these gem sockets now.

[BirdSpirit]

7 minutes ago, Kadirra said:

Just saw this on @Babbeltr0n 's twitter when someone asked about this thread:  "Confirmed with the dev team that this is by design, it's the same in other regions as well "

 

Hoping they actually post here, but this is very disappointing. They didn't even tell anyone this was going to happen. No warning. No notes to tell people this situation was now in play.

 

They really need to post something in this thread and some manner of clarification about the way things work with these gem sockets now.

Wow. I'm a new player and didn't know about gem hammers until I reached 45. There goes 4 of them to waste.

[Elvenmad]

 

well thats just BS cos in other versions you can craft  gem socket tools and they drop in game, its OK saying its same in other versions but there business models are completely different and the ways to get gem hammers are diferent,  and why did he previously post " starting at Oathbreaker (Devil) the amount of gem slots will not be re-rolled on upgrading and you do not need to remove your gems " he was obviously aware of how it was discussed it would work in our, version, NOW they deny it , its a f***ng JOKE !!!!!!

 

yet another issue in game they know nothing really about how it should work and they dont care cos its making them more cash.

 

[myuna]

How the hell did this guy get to be Assistant producer when he has no idea about how things work or are supposed to work in the game, it is a very easy way out to just say "this is how it works in other version" but every other version is also completely different from each other, just to say it is same in other versions just to cover up the mistakes is a pathetic answer, especially after previously stating our version would NOT work like this, 

 

Seriously getting fed up of the crap with them saying one thing one week then something totally different the next week

 

[Elvenmad]

 So let me get this straight if you upgrade your weapon down the Oathbreaker path you lose a Gem socket in the Evolve, so now on top of this evolve path already being far more expensive to go down you also lose gem slots to, while if you go Pirate path you dont..........................HAHA yeah working as intended !!

[Zarec]

On March 23, 2016 at 6:03 PM, ThunderGod said:

@Hime @Rukkirii

This is utterly bullshit! Why do i lose my existing socket when upgrading my weapon from true profane to oathbreaker. Is this ncsoft way of milking us for stuff with already had by taking away thing we had. Now i have to pay 5 gem hammer and extra gold to get my 4th slot back, this is retard move on ncsoft.

This is actually part of the original game.  The items needed to get more gem slots are obtainable in game but are difficult to get which is why you can get them from the store for convenience.  Anyone that has played on other regions knew about this ahead of time.  It sucks for new players who never played on other regions.  This was intentional in other regions.  Leave it  to Americans to through a hissy fit and not research the evolve paths before proceeding down them.

 

Wait till you have to get xp for legendaries......god I can hear the whining now.

[Kadirra]

3 hours ago, Zarec said:

This is actually part of the original game.  The items needed to get more gem slots are obtainable in game but are difficult to get which is why you can get them from the store for convenience.  Anyone that has played on other regions knew about this ahead of time.  It sucks for new players who never played on other regions.  This was intentional in other regions.  Leave it  to Americans to through a hissy fit and not research the evolve paths before proceeding down them.

 

Wait till you have to get xp for legendaries......god I can hear the whining now.

We have a different store model in NA/EU. There's a lot in the game that is different from other regions. Were we supposed to assume this specific thing would be similar or the same when there's been no precedent in the game so far to say it would be? There's no documentation that I can find about NA/EU gem hammer usage and warnings. The fact that even the Assistant Producer @Babbletr0n was asked in earlier threads (and even he thought it would be different for NA/EU) as mentioned earlier in this thread, should suggest that some people DID ask before and didn't get the information.

 

In other regions the players can craft these gem hammers, apparently, but in NA/EU they can't. So things ARE different here. We're just not being told beforehand what will be or what won't be. We need better communication. I wouldn't have spent my Ncoins for gem hammers had I known the slot would be lost in later upgrades. There's no warning and no suggestion in game this would be the case.

[khynnea]

I would not have spent MANY ncoins for gem hammers for personal use if I had known they were going to be taken away from me in less than 2 weeks.

 

It's not in the product description in the store that it is a temporary item, and it was not part of the launch notes.

 

I need to have the mechanics explained officially/formally. It is apparently "working as intended" that if you go Oathbreaker you lose money spent. So if you go siren/true pirate, do you lose money too? And if you are still sitting at true profane, how long do we have the option of choosing one over the other?

 

Eight characters worth of gem hammers, and while I realize that the "official" communication from both support and twitter are "we're aware of this and we're working on it" that doesn't change the fact I spent real money for a product I had every expectation would be permanent.

[Elynya]

You can't craft gem hammer on any current version

you were on old version which require 3-7 side gem slot (same as gem type) you still see them in some of waiting screen image.

On CN you can get gem hammer from daily reward box I had 500+ of them before they implement that godly weapon (S1-S3)

a chance to get gem hammer on western is pretty low I got 1 from my 2 character.

 

On CN right now you need legendary gem hammer pretty rare drop/daily reward boxx also cashshop item same price as western version right now (around 3-4 G in AH)

S1/ S2/ S3 legendary weapon every time player upgrade it all gem slot will reset and random... very annoying if you can't afford level 1-10 upgrade in one goes then you got screw.

S2.5/ S2.8 gem slot will reset at some upgrade (+8>+9 for 2.5) right now I need 11 + 8 gold for my 4th slot and it will be gone after I upgraded my weapon up to next level...

 

On TW/JP get slot will reset once when you upgrade from hongmoon path (true profane) to devil path (oathbreaker)

Im pretty sure back then upgrading True pirate to True breeze all gem slot reset once and reset again when upgrade it to legendary weapon.

 

No matter what you will got screw anyway.

[Tracmar]

Guess we should all stop upgrading and start running everything with siren / pirate .. would be fun

[Lexter]

They should give you warning before using hammer. If they dont, they just hoping you will put more money into game. Sad business model.

[khynnea]

2 minutes ago, Lexter said:

They should give you warning before using hammer.

Not only this, it should be in the description of the item in the store, how long it is good for, what you are actually purchasing -- that you lose the benefit of the item on these weapon transformations and upgrades -- whether that is blight, oathbreaker or true breeze so that we can make informed decisions about our purchases.

 

I don't mind supporting a game with cash purchases when I know what I am getting for my money. I do not like, and think is a shady/underhanded business practice, selling something without transparency.

[Zarec]

23 minutes ago, khynnea said:

Not only this, it should be in the description of the item in the store, how long it is good for, what you are actually purchasing -- that you lose the benefit of the item on these weapon transformations and upgrades -- whether that is blight, oathbreaker or true breeze so that we can make informed decisions about our purchases.

 

I don't mind supporting a game with cash purchases when I know what I am getting for my money. I do not like, and think is a shady/underhanded business practice, selling something without transparency.

They expect players to get these in game.  This version seems to drop them far less than other regions (something that should be looked into in my opinion).  You can buy them from the store for convenience reasons but they are not limited to the store.  All other versions of the game you lose your gem slots on certain upgrade path points (usually around when they branch off from that current path).  

 

Should they give a warning?  They pretty much do when they have you remove your gems from the slots.  That is when your gem slots are getting reset.  They are also very cheap in the store....stupid cheap.  

[khynnea]

30 minutes ago, Zarec said:

They expect players to get these in game.  This version seems to drop them far less than other regions (something that should be looked into in my opinion).  You can buy them from the store for convenience reasons but they are not limited to the store.  All other versions of the game you lose your gem slots on certain upgrade path points (usually around when they branch off from that current path).  

 

Should they give a warning?  They pretty much do when they have you remove your gems from the slots.  That is when your gem slots are getting reset.  They are also very cheap in the store....stupid cheap.  

From my point of view as a consumer, though, the warning shouldn't come when I'm going to lose the item. It should come when I purchase it.

 

Now looking at the history of things, something I know now -- after purchasing the items -- if I was playing this game in Korea in the original launch timeline there would EITHER be adequate time for me to get value out of the item from the point of original purchase to the time that the new content and upgrade paths were released where I lost functionality, OR I would be a new player and I'd ostensibly be coming into this having access to the Korean language documentation and user base, and be able to learn about the items.

 

As a player on the North America launch, never having heard of the game until the day before said launch, I did in fact have to google what the item was before buying one. I did not buy any until just prior to the announcement of the level 50 content (which was released a couple days after the announcement).

 

I don't really fall into either category. I didn't have much time to put to use the cash purchase I made, regardless of whether it was 2$ or 20$, and the game company really could have done a much better job communicating.

Calling this a "known issue" isn't really good community management or customer support in my opinion. Saying "hey we know this is a concern because you have been a loyal customer and spent real money on this and we'll get back to you once we know what we want to do as a company" is different.

 

Keep in mind I'm not opposed to capitalism, I'm just opposed to shady practices. There's a difference. I'm all for the game company making a ton of money and being successful because I enjoy the game. I have supported it. Sure, caveat emptor -- but I did due diligence as best as I could to the point of knowing not to use the hammer prior to doing my Blight upgrades. At some point the onus is also on the company to clearly communicate and willingly engage with the customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kadirra]

If the NA/EU version were guaranteed to be a direct copy of the Korean or Chinese version of the game and we were told this, then I could see saying 'well the information was out there'. But it isn't. There have been many changes made to the game to adapt it to NA/EU, and it has not just been localization in the 'translation and voice acting' department. We don't even have the same social interface as other countries do, from what they mentioned in livestream. We do not know what they will keep, what they will alter, or what they will remove until they TELL us. 

 

Communication is important. They need to communicate more clearly and more often when changes are going to happen, and alert people in advance before the change has happened to prepare them. This also includes items offered in their Hongmoon Store for real money...perhaps especially includes these items.

 

They way I see it, they need to make a concise posting regarding Gem Hammers, their uses, and how they are affected by transmuted weapons and sticky it somewhere for posterity so people /know/ what to expect.

[myuna]

 How can we be guaranteed a copy of the KR/CN version both of them are completely different in both content and business models.

 

 In the first live stream after launch Jonathan Lien the assistant Producer explains how the game will work and how it will progress, he also clearly states we will be following the Korean version as in his words that is the '"original version", then the following week he states we will get a weapon path from TW version LOL, and since we have had Bopae sets from CN version too and alot more things all from completely different versions, like also "souls", they clearly state we would not be getting the "Pirate soul' (which is part of the Hongmen weapon path in other versions) We would begetting a Soul from another version at level 50, this is clearly stated, then the following week we are told there will be a Soul available from Naryu Lab , LOL

 

The truth is we are not getting a set game path as with practically every Korean MMO which is brought to the west we are gettiing many many changes and bits from lots of different sources ALL to capitalize on it as much as possible.

 

 You have only got to watch all the live streams and see what they say then actually look in the game a see what actually happens, they are quite simply making it up as they go along, they are making so many changes to suit there own needs and not checking what "knock on" effects they have to other things in the game, then they are either ignoring them or making even more changes to cover up their mistakes, this is happening nearly ever week and if you can not see it then your blind.

 Why did Jonathan Lien clearly sate nearly 2 weeks ago " starting at Oathbreaker (Devil) the amount of gem slots will not be re-rolled on upgrading and you do not need to remove your gems "  they were obviously aware of how the weapon system worked in some other versions and had discussed it and had decided NOT to have it like that otherwise there would not have been this statement at all.

Now days after we get the patch he is now saying he does not know, in fact on his twitter he just posted " more info on this soon"   lol, "soon" but the patch is already here and he obviously has no idea what is going on and this is from the Assistant Producer !

 

[Kadirra]

I'm guessing that we're not going to get their official posting about this matter until next week, since it is now the weekend. It's disappointing to have to wait so long for information that should have been made available at the outset. I am genuinely curious to see how they are going to handle this situation, considering how much Ncoin must be in play for so many, myself included.

[Elvenmad]

31 minutes ago, Kadirra said:

I'm guessing that we're not going to get their official posting about this matter until next week, since it is now the weekend. It's disappointing to have to wait so long for information that should have been made available at the outset. I am genuinely curious to see how they are going to handle this situation, considering how much Ncoin must be in play for so many, myself included.

I was thinking the exact same thing. and meanwhile more players will be spending Ncoin on Gem Hammers totally unaware they will lose them.

Personally I think they are dragging their heels because they did not not really know this would happen, I mean,  Jonathan seems to be totally confused, nearly two weeks ago he stated we would NOT be getting this slot reroll system, NOW on Twitter he  says the Dev's have told him this is how it is in other versions LOL

He posted he would have more info "soon"  LOL, gg NC

 

 This to reminds me as posted earlier of the Fabric and Costume Pouch Fiasco and there reply to players that it was 'like this in other versions' well OK, yes it was BUT in other versions you could breakdown costumes that dropped within the game and how are new western players to the game supposed to know this too ??? BUT NCwest expect you to buy  2 or 3 Costumes with cash and then destroy them !!! followed by a random RNG chance to get a new costume LOL......Really

 

[Kadirra]

The sad thing about all this is that now even though I like the game and don't mind supporting it with occasional Ncoin purchases, this is making me want to stop spending money on Ncoin and stop purchasing items in the Hongmoon Store for real money. I am hoping they come through and make this right for people who spent real money for these items already, I really am. But I'm losing faith that this will happen. Maybe they'll come through for the players who support the game. I hope so.