Sin hate?

[KyouOu]

So i noticed a thing that really grind my gears...

Ppl are hate assassins in team....

 

For example i have a 424 ap and almost 3k crit (54%) yet where ppl ask 400 ap in a party i get kick cuz "sin is useless" "sin cant tank"

Parties like Bloodshade Harbor 4

But i even got a kick from a 6 naryu lab party....

 

This is fking annoing me i mean WHY THE HELL....

 

Forgot:

Ok sins cant tank but damage is good

 

Ncsoft will do anything about it? (i guess all warlock cried they too weak now i just barelly can beat them so i bet they got stronger) [or escape from chain]

[Hongmoon]

West players are generally just a bunch of bads that are easily swayed by rumors. Just like people telling you to get true pirate right away, when all you really need is awakened pirate. A bunch of players who played sin as an alt couldn't figure out how to play the class and decided it was bad. That's all it really boils down to. Doesn't help that there are a bunch of retards spewing that dark build is superior and unusable when stealth build is more than enough to outdps everyone that's not a fm (most likely the same people that don't know how to play sin and just regurgitate what other people say).

 

I've tanked blood mane while in perma stealth in nsh at 360 attack without using soju. That should tell how good it's dps is.

[KyouOu]

Still annoy me, i think the best would be a "party searcher"

Where u could set like like Ap: 420 (and player who bellow it cant join) but cant kick cause sin or etc....) after a time ppl would stop rq and accept...

[Shadovvv]

I've gotten kicked for no reason with 445 AP, when the rest of the party has 400~420, and they don't say "NO SIN". I don't understand why people think assassins are useless. However, I do seem to find that people don't fully understand assassin's capabilities, for example people don't use Time Bomb which refreshes poison duration.

 

Sins can play the evasion tank role if they know what they're doing, heck pretty much almost any class can play the tanking role. I've tanked Poharan, Widows, and even Jins, which as said before should tell my DPS is actually damn good.

 

Now, people tend to largely underestimate us and fail to understand what we can bring to the party:

• Lotus of Escape has a spec that can pull near dead, reviving, and dead party members within 100 meters of our mark and even pull people above hills and out of firewalls, nullifying the need for the entire party to waste their health and energy to jump down and save dead people. We are the only class who can do this, unlike Destroyers who have to be physically near the target, can only carry one person at a time, and can only do it to near dead people.
• Decoy, Smokescreen, and Lotus of Rescue have a spec that stealths the entire party. While currently only stealth smoke can bypass mobs, supposedly somewhere around level 50 will introduce mechanics that force party stealth for survival.
• Highwire is similar to a grab/phantom grip/pin, with the advantage that it can grip an entire group of stunned/dazed mobs and does fairly decent damage with Voltage. However, in PvE this is generally seen as useless since it's inferior to the standard grab in every way: Highwire needs us to be 9 meters away which contradicts our melee status, removes our stealth, most bosses are almost always alone (and its pretty difficult to stun two bosses to begin with), doesn't provide any extra debuff, doesn't last very long, and can't CC, pull or reposition bosses.
• Next patch we will gain Fighting Spirit in our Lotus of Escape tree, which is the exact same as Kung Fu Master's buff: +40% crit chance, +50% crit damage, 70% health restoration from damage. When we're able to bring it to Hongmoon, it gives us double damage to Dark Strike, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod.
• Also in next patch we gain Lotus of Rescue in our Lotus of Escape Tree. This stealths us and puts down a marker that, on call, instantly teleports all party mates within 8 meters of the mark directly to where we are standing, and then give everyone double movement speed. Not only is it useful for bypassing mobs, it can also potentially pull live people out of harm's way (although this shouldn't really happen when we're mostly specced for Fighting Spirit).

We might not be seen as useful now, but that will change at level 50. People will stop shunning us and treat us as the almighty savior and the angel of death.

[KyouOu]

I hope so, its really annoing, i cant kick a bot from my party inside or a guy who joined with 33 lvl to a 45 lvl dungeon cuz its a bot/retard who think easy money, but they can kick...

[Purestic]

Well, altough I main Sin I have to say that they have some kind of a point.

Sin isn't designed to tank (altough we sort of can) but to DPS. The problem isn't that Sin can't put out around the same damage as FM, but that many players don't know how to dodge effectively without losing DPS (Sin can actually gain DPS from Q'ing) resulting in a player not dealing any damage or contributing anything else. If you compare that to a equally good FM, the FM is a superior choice. FMs have more broadly usable support abilities too, whereas Sins support abilities are quite situational (atm) or not unlocked yet.

 

I can't say what started the bad reputation, though. Players trying out Sin and leaving it with a bad opinion or bad Sins who didn't contribute (which doesn't surprise me. Sin isn't the easiest class to play, but I think we're in a stage where every Sin should know atleast the basics by now. )

[Minity]

"equally good FM", in PvE, how does a good FM differ from a bad one? We as sin have to put alot more efffort to this game to do the same as otehr classses and it is nowheere rewarded... in my oppinion, we should outDPS and class and out sustain any if we play good....

[Infamous]

Most people who don't want sins are baddies that want to be carried. I seen multiple times when someone is making group and is searching for WL/sum/FM only. In other words, he needs someone to carry him. And another thing  why people don't want sins, is that not all know how to evade or play with sin right. But sins are really underestimated.

[KyouOu]

The saddest thing is the only do this with sins.... i think this is a problem what ncsoft should fix it

 

For example a ppl see a warlock with low attack power, yet they dont kick him cause he can make all stronger

Well not true all the class but probably they would choose a 380 ap Kfm over a 400ap assassin.

[Purestic]

2 hours ago, KyouOu said:

The saddest thing is the only do this with sins.... i think this is a problem what ncsoft should fix it

 

For example a ppl see a warlock with low attack power, yet they dont kick him cause he can make all stronger

Well not true all the class but probably they would choose a 380 ap Kfm over a 400ap assassin.

Ah, come on. Especially Warlocks get this far more often than Sins do. Even Summoners did in the past.. I've seen so many parties harrassing/kicking out Summoners mostly because they hated them in PvP.

[Shadovvv]

It won't be long now my brethren. Rejoice!

[Syrang]

Ive tanked alot of bosses as sin with really low ap compared to other people who had 400ap + before the new patch came recently. There is going to be a group for every class that hates it. It just takes to far when they wont even invite you or kick you because of your class and not gear.

[WADofMEAT]

Well I play a warlock and  honeslty  new content  I like to run dungeons  with sin first, FM and either a kfm or sm.

Sin help people get past annoying areas pretty easy.

 

Got a 2 people  I met we  3 man yeti so easy myelf Lock, Sin and Destro

[Purestic]

I didn't have a single bad encounter since the update. One guy was even grateful I played Sin, which was pretty nice.

 

The good thing about Sin now is that the buff works with WL's Soulburn. You can deal incredible amounts of damage when using it simultaneously.

[Kaid]

To be honest. I play sin and it's my favorite class.

I do dungeons with friends which don't care what to roll, we just having fun smashing and killing.

As a sin, I feel pretty much useless in party, don't get me wrong. sin can do dps and solo bosses.

But in party, it's pretty much as solo, for eg. BM/KFM/Des can tank, Sum can tank with pet while res/ help others, FM/WL massive AoE and buffs, and what I do? Attacking in the shadow while party take the damages, I can't do anything to help them, except maybe with smoke screen.

And sin doesn't have good AoE skills as well.

 

The only part where I feel important is, when whole party dies, and me keeping the boss "aggro" in perma so doesn't restore hp while party chi.

It's assassin and that's how ninja are in real, but it really need more party skills.

Specially after the AP nerv for them, I won't blame anyone for not accepting sins -_-

[Shadovvv]

2 hours ago, Kaid said:

To be honest. I play sin and it's my favorite class.

I do dungeons with friends which don't care what to roll, we just having fun smashing and killing.

As a sin, I feel pretty much useless in party, don't get me wrong. sin can do dps and solo bosses.

But in party, it's pretty much as solo, for eg. BM/KFM/Des can tank, Sum can tank with pet while res/ help others, FM/WL massive AoE and buffs, and what I do? Attacking in the shadow while party take the damages, I can't do anything to help them, except maybe with smoke screen.

And sin doesn't have good AoE skills as well.

 

The only part where I feel important is, when whole party dies, and me keeping the boss "aggro" in perma so doesn't restore hp while party chi.

It's assassin and that's how ninja are in real, but it really need more party skills.

Specially after the AP nerv for them, I won't blame anyone for not accepting sins -_-

"Useless"? We have Fighting Spirit, we can execute stealth runs, we can pull people to safety, we have anti-projectile moves, we have a grab (albeit not very useful), WE HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT BUFFS. If you can execute them all well, there is no reason for you to be feeling useless compared to other classes.

 

When are area of effects relevant? The boss is almost always alone, and trash mobs die very fast anyway.

 

If everyone's dead then maybe stop stealthing until they get back up? The more viable Dark build doesn't keep you in stealth 24/7, and nearly every single boss in Silverfrost Mountains have True Sight anyway, so stealth or no stealth you're going to have to learn to deal with being revealed a lot.

 

And what the hell is this AP nerf you are talking about? No one's AP got nerfed.

[Kaid]

7 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

"Useless"? We have Fighting Spirit, we can execute stealth runs, we can pull people to safety, we have anti-projectile moves, we have a grab (albeit not very useful), WE HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT BUFFS. If you can execute them all well, there is no reason for you to be feeling useless compared to other classes.

 

When are area of effects relevant? The boss is almost always alone, and trash mobs die very fast anyway.

 

If everyone's dead then maybe stop stealthing until they get back up? The more viable Dark build doesn't keep you in stealth 24/7, and nearly every single boss in Silverfrost Mountains have True Sight anyway, so stealth or no stealth you're going to have to learn to deal with being revealed a lot.

 

And what the hell is this AP nerf you are talking about? No one's AP got nerfed.

I'd like to know what support moves and buffs you talking about o_O?

It's only smoke screen anti projectiles + hp or stealth.

 

AoE make runs and dungeon clear faster since other party have to fight through the dungeon.

You can try fight with them but must be one by one so not much of a help.

 

For the third part you must miss-read it xD I meant keeping boss in aggro state while dealing some damage, till everybody recover, rather than refight boss with full hp.

 

Actually we didn't get AP nerv but more left out, in recent updates, not sure which one exactly.

Every class got some AP boost, I like to watch characters info to see and learn about SS and gears.

Weapons used to be equalized, but now every class I see has more AP than me.

Today I saw a KFM with true profane weapon ( cheap square gems, no diamond), he had 430 AP? Me with oathbreaker 10 and have 353+12 AP from gears.

Check it yourself.

Another person was talking about this

Non the less, sin are fun to play, and my friends appreciate when I become last moment saver :)

Just wish we could help more.

[Kasady]

1 hour ago, Kaid said:

I'd like to know what support moves and buffs you talking about o_O?

It's only smoke screen anti projectiles + hp or stealth.

 

AoE make runs and dungeon clear faster since other party have to fight through the dungeon.

You can try fight with them but must be one by one so not much of a help.

 

For the third part you must miss-read it xD I meant keeping boss in aggro state while dealing some damage, till everybody recover, rather than refight boss with full hp.

 

Actually we didn't get AP nerv but more left out, in recent updates, not sure which one exactly.

Every class got some AP boost, I like to watch characters info to see and learn about SS and gears.

Weapons used to be equalized, but now every class I see has more AP than me.

Today I saw a KFM with true profane weapon ( cheap square gems, no diamond), he had 430 AP? Me with oathbreaker 10 and have 353+12 AP from gears.

Check it yourself.

Another person was talking about this

Non the less, sin are fun to play, and my friends appreciate when I become last moment saver :)

Just wish we could help more.

Alright, I'm a 511 AP 50% CRIT 25% PIERCE and 54k HP Sin, I have 3 other classes at 45 and two other classes leveled up to a point, so I know how most of the other classes work by personal experience. Sin is far from useless even before we got fighting spirit. The class does carry AoEs (Poison Breath, Land Mine, Shadow Slash, Cyclone Sweep, Webbing, Flash Kick, Lightning Rod and Bolt Strike) can either be spec for heavy DMG, Self Heals or heavy CC. You are able to tank in none invisible state, I do it all the time I am usually the tank unless a good FM is in the party; I had 97%  Evasion rate before patch and I've worked back up to 85% Evasion rate after patch which will continue to go up cause I'm still working on Oathbreaker gear. This allows me to evade I good chunk of attacks from bosses or normal mobs. I'm already finding the new bosses severely easy to tank even the once that see through invis. The Class Carries 5 Iframe skills (Shadow Dance, Sidestep Right, Back step, Lotus of Escape and Lotus Fury) 2 of which carry very long frames of invincibility; and one projectile Iframe skill (Smoke Screen). If you are capable of utilizing these skills along with Decoy it's is very possible to go through a fight without being touched, but that all comes down to the players skill level and lag cases.  The class does carry party wide buffs (Decoy, Smoke Screen, Lotus of Escape and the new but not new Fighting Spirit).

 

Assassin is a very versatile class, it's a very strong solo class, and it is very capable of party play, it's able to dish out huge damage in invisible state or none invisible state, although I prefer the shadow play over none. It is capable of frame canceling damage and it is very fun and a nice class to tank with if you have the skills to do so.

 

note thought that this is stated by the game itself, Assassin is the second hardest class to play, although I believe it should be top tier for hardest class to play seeing that there isn't many good/experienced assassin players out there.

 

Also I am not sure what you are talking about with the AP being different I checked my f list with everyone who is at maxed out true pirate and it was the same 310 AP and base States, only confusion I can think about is weather or not they have the title/achievements that give the attack stats.

[Purestic]

1 hour ago, Kasady said:

The class does carry AoEs (Poison Breath, Land Mine, Shadow Slash, Cyclone Sweep, Webbing, Flash Kick, Lightning Rod and Bolt Strike) can either be spec for heavy DMG, Self Heals or heavy CC. 

(Shadow Dance, Sidestep Right, Back step, Lotus of Escape and Lotus Fury) 2 of which carry very long frames of invincibility; and one projectile Iframe skill (Smoke Screen). If you are capable of utilizing these skills along with Decoy it's is very possible to go through a fight without being touched, but that all comes down to the players skill level and lag cases.  The class does carry party wide buffs (Decoy, Smoke Screen, Lotus of Escape and the new but not new Fighting Spirit).

Cyclone Sweep, Webbing and Flash Kick are AoE? In what sense? Maybe I should read the skill descriptions more.

 

I think Assassin is a very versatile class to play and can be a huge contribution to any party. Not only because of our Fighting Spirit buff and because it also stacks with WLs. (Maybe even with KFMs? Didn't had the chance to test it yet) and I tanked either blue/green in Lab when no other class was around to do so. Worked pretty well because the attack patterns are fairly easy to dodge. Didn't do it with Lvl50 bosses yet, though.

 

I don't really use any support skills besides groupstealth, Lotus and ofc Fighting Spirit, though. Smokescreen can be useful but I didn't come into the situation where it was benefitial yet. I don't really see the point in using Decoy for party purposes? (or Grab, of course)

 

Cool idea to use evasion Soulshields. I need to do that once I geared up a little bit more. What evasion based Soulshields do you use? And which ones to infuse with?

[Kasady]

1 hour ago, Purestic said:

Cyclone Sweep, Webbing and Flash Kick are AoE? In what sense? Maybe I should read the skill descriptions more.

 

I think Assassin is a very versatile class to play and can be a huge contribution to any party. Not only because of our Fighting Spirit buff and because it also stacks with WLs. (Maybe even with KFMs? Didn't had the chance to test it yet) and I tanked either blue/green in Lab when no other class was around to do so. Worked pretty well because the attack patterns are fairly easy to dodge. Didn't do it with Lvl50 bosses yet, though.

 

I don't really use any support skills besides groupstealth, Lotus and ofc Fighting Spirit, though. Smokescreen can be useful but I didn't come into the situation where it was benefitial yet. I don't really see the point in using Decoy for party purposes? (or Grab, of course)

 

Cool idea to use evasion Soulshields. I need to do that once I geared up a little bit more. What evasion based Soulshields do you use? And which ones to infuse with?

Yes they are AoE, u can hit multiple enemies with them.

 

For the soul shield since I care about piercing and I'm not on that bandwagon of stack only HP and crit rate for Sin, before new content I was running full bloodshade set; best stats rolls I could get for HP Crit and Evasion and I fused half Crit and half Evasion for them, New content I'm currently  running Full Yeti Set with best stat rolls on HP CRIT and Evasion and trying out a new fuse of half Piercing and half  Evasion.  

 

For bloodshade I used the highest green Evasions soul shield I could get in nightshade harbor, and the highest green CRIT soul shield I could get in E fleet 24 man raid for fuse.

 

For Yeti I'm using Snowblind green for Evasion and Soulstone Piercing green Soul shield for the Piercing stat to fuse. Northern Critical soul shields if you want crit instead of Piercing. 

 

All this is if you don't wanna fuse blues and use up Soulstones.

[Shadovvv]

9 hours ago, Kaid said:

I'd like to know what support moves and buffs you talking about o_O?

It's only smoke screen anti projectiles + hp or stealth

 

AoE make runs and dungeon clear faster since other party have to fight through the dungeon.

You can try fight with them but must be one by one so not much of a help.

• Lotus of Escape Stage 1 Tier 3
• Lotus of Rescue
• Fighting Spirit
• Smokescreen Anti-Projectile + Focus Regen + Healing
• Smokescreen Stealth
• Decoy Stealth + Healing
• Highwire

Killing mobs? They're easily skippable in most dungeons. Otherwise they die very fast anyway.

3 hours ago, Purestic said:

Cyclone Sweep, Webbing and Flash Kick are AoE? In what sense? Maybe I should read the skill descriptions more.

Cyclone Sweep is not an AoE. Flash Kick is AoE 3 meters but it's execution speed is so slow that no one wants to use it. Webbing entangled knocked down/airborne targets within 3 meters, but it really only shines in PvP and in solo.

[Kasady]

2 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

• Cyclone Sweep is not an AoE. Flash Kick is AoE 3 meters but it's execution speed is so slow that no one wants to use it. Webbing entangled knocked down/airborne targets within 3 meters, but it really only shines in PvP and in solo.

Yes My Bad, Cyclone sweep is not AoE but is very good for sleeping a target, and yes Flash kick is a little slow but does give invincibility during the animation of the skill but later on it is replaced by webbing, which is also AoE and unbreakable by target. It's good for combo setups or to just hold a mob for a brief period. 

 

I also forgot to mention that Lightning Stride hits multiple enemies as well.

 

[Kysersoze]

There are sin that got so use to ninja solo stuff, in a party setting, they stealth ahead of the party, skip the trash and wait at the main/mini boss. that.. to some ppl's point of view is a spot for dps wasted.

[Purestic]

21 hours ago, Kasady said:

For the soul shield since I care about piercing and I'm not on that bandwagon of stack only HP and crit rate for Sin, before new content I was running full bloodshade set; best stats rolls I could get for HP Crit and Evasion and I fused half Crit and half Evasion for them, New content I'm currently  running Full Yeti Set with best stat rolls on HP CRIT and Evasion and trying out a new fuse of half Piercing and half  Evasion. 

Thanks for the answer. Why do you use Piercing, though? I thought more than 10% were useless at 45, so probably 15-20% at 50?

[devildawg]

On 3/30/2016 at 1:41 AM, Kaid said:

To be honest. I play sin and it's my favorite class.

I do dungeons with friends which don't care what to roll, we just having fun smashing and killing.

As a sin, I feel pretty much useless in party, don't get me wrong. sin can do dps and solo bosses.

But in party, it's pretty much as solo, for eg. BM/KFM/Des can tank, Sum can tank with pet while res/ help others, FM/WL massive AoE and buffs, and what I do? Attacking in the shadow while party take the damages, I can't do anything to help them, except maybe with smoke screen.

And sin doesn't have good AoE skills as well.

 

The only part where I feel important is, when whole party dies, and me keeping the boss "aggro" in perma so doesn't restore hp while party chi.

It's assassin and that's how ninja are in real, but it really need more party skills.

Specially after the AP nerv for them, I won't blame anyone for not accepting sins -_-

No offence but people who play sins who say they arent good in parties (vs lots of mobs) doesnt know how to use a SIN :P 

AOE attacks:

Shadow Slash

Lightning Rod

Poison Breath - stacks poison --> combine into lightning stride for an easy 19k crit damage to everything in its path. 

Bolt strike - dazes anything in 3m radius

-> combo into haywire

Landmine

 

All of these attacks can do massive damage, especially gathering enemies, stealth, then lightning rod from stealth into poison breath. That alone can literally almost kill or kill as many mobs as you hit. 

 

As a SIN, i typically ALWAYS take aggro. When I was using True Profane I was taking aggro from over 15 people back in NSH 24 man, and a lot of them were using True siren or awe pirate at the time. I even take aggro playing now vs GHS and FE/beastbog. shadovvv is correct though, people dont understand what exactly SINS can do. They only think we stealth and spam 2 buttons. Maybe a noob SIN will do this, but I use ALL of my abilities and do massive damage. SINS are by far the most versatile class in the game. Ive played FM, summ, Destroyer, lock all to 45 and I still prefer my sin waaaaay more. So many more options for them, if you know how to effectively use them. 

 

Also, dont forget about fighting spirit.