Why are Summoners shown no love in 50 PvP?

[Ryjian]

(Rant Thread*)

 

As most know (Those who have played other servers), once 50 cap hits with HM lvls 10+, Summoner fall off the charts of arena PvP considerably. It seems like the main classes are given more love, but the only 2 lyn classes (BD as well) are thrown in the trash and not even considered. Most classes get their extra stats on their skills with more lvls while Blade Dancer and Summoner don't really get anything extra as their skill trees are not as large and expandable as the other classes. And because of that, the main classes are able to build more points into specifically countering these 2 classes while BD and SMN can't. It is highly unbalanced and unfair when i get countered so hard on summoner i can't even do anything. I'm a Platinum Summoner and the verge of Diamond. No, i rarely went against any bots since i started at the beginning of the new season. The only bots iv'e went against are the lame summoner resist hacking bots sitting at high plat. So before people throw the lame "Get gud", i know what i'm doing with summoner. It's just that when you go against others who also know what their doing as well to counter summoners with a specific build where as summoners basically only have 1 build, it's kinda unfair and unbalanced.

 

Let's take a look at some things between classes...

 

1*- Summoners have 4 CC. Cat Lunge which Stuns, Their "2" which dazes, Cat Hammer Dazes and the Cat Knock Down. The Cat Hammer Daze and Knockdown are a pain in the ass to land when your target keeps moving as your cat keeps lunging at them, so basically your target has to be still to actually have a chance to hit them. 2 Escapes, well, literally 1 escape. Their "2" is basically their only escape. The Cat recall is unreliable sometimes. Summoners Don't have a Q or E like the other classes (Besides Des). Only SS with seed shroud which every other class can counter with their shield block cancel skills which results in a stun or daze while summoners shield block counter is a mere knockdown.

 

2*- Blademasters have 11 CC.....11. Now with all those skills points at 50 HM 10+, yea, kinda unfair and unbalanced. They can easily combo down your cat 100-0 with all those dazes, KD and stuns. Then you're next. I have faced VERY few BM's that were actually good and chained combo'd everything perfectly. It's retarded they have so many CC.

 

3*- Destroyers have 7 CC on top of all the Slow, Stun, Daze, Knockback Resist, etc, etc. Increased movement speed while Spinning which makes it hard for SMN's to get away because all they have is SS, Seed Shroud (F) and their X if none are on CD. Summoners only have 1 knock down which is a pain to land on destroyer, other than that, it's extremely hard for a SMN to win against a good destroyer.

 

4* - Kungfu Master have 9 CC on top of their Constant Q and E resist bullcrap which builds up to "Max Agility" which they resist everything for 6 seconds. All of their CC are AoE which makes it easy to 100-0 a summoner once the cat runs in. 

 

5* - ForceMaster have 5 CC on top of their Freeze safeguards which heal them for a lot and then Divine Veil which heals for a lot. And the ability to constantly freeze enemies in place by hitting them or being hit, such bullcrap. Because once you use your SS on summoner, you basically get frozen in place again, at this point if your SeedShroud is down and X too, you're fcked.

 

6* - Warlock have 6 CC on top of their "C" which prevents Daze, stun etc and or auto targeting. Also they can refresh the CD of all their skills by 3 times for 5 seconds. So basically im constantly rooted, stunned, dazed until death while they spam all their skills on me which are basically all fckin AOE which seed shroud doesn't counter unless you press "F" which has like a 25 second CD.

 

7* - Assassin have 7 CC on top of the constant stealth 99% of the match. Summoners only way of catching a Assassin is when they get Doom'd and Gloried or cat puts down a bomb, that's it. Most assassins who do get caught run to the opposite side of the damn arena while you're slowed to a fckin snail and they just re-stealth and repeat hit and run.

 

8* - Blade Dancers have 7 CC. Now for summoners, Blade Dancers have their Spinning Resist for 2 seconds on top of their "V" which can resist anything for like 2 seconds each cast up to 3 times and then "Z" which heals them 10% and resist 5 attacks. Alternating between these 3 is keeps everything on a low CD. Can't Root them, they just spin away with 60% movement speed. Constant force grabs, yea yea.

 

The major point of all this? At High Tier PvP, it is highly unfair and unbalanced for Summoners while every other class can easily dominate them. Also, this is not counting Hongmoon skills. The amount of CC and other Favorable stats for the main classes just makes summoner look dumb because summoners don't have a large expandable skill tree like the other classes do. With a mere 4 CC which are mainly Dazes while others have multiple stuns, its bullshit.

 

Other's complain about the Summoners cat which can only grab you every 18 seconds assuming i Stun,Daze or KD you within each interval. And most people tab out of it right away. But when you have other classes with more multiple CC's and combo's which can 100-0 a Summoner in literally 2-3 seconds no one says anything about that. Summoners literally have no real combo besides Cat Grab and Sunflower. That's it. I can't 100-0 someone like a KFM and Destroyer. So when people complain about Summoners being to hard to fight, their not. They are at the bottom of the list in high tier PvP at the later levels, even in PvE as well. Blade Dancers also fall into this category sadly as well at high tier PvP.

 

~~All of these CC #'s were counted off the BnSTree. I know i may have missed some things in this rant but the outcome is clear. For those who've never played on any other servers, you will see once 50 10+ HM hits. For those who have played on other servers for a couple of years, know that SMN needs a little love as well as BD.

 

 

[JMelo]

Oh, now a summoner crying LOL

Don't you all summoner got all easy face rolling keyboard to get gold/plat rank without any afford? I vote to get this thread up on sticky.........

 

[Takao]

i dont get it u already crying over something that didint even happened yet :D ye summoners dont have bright future but well that class is build around pve suport solo dungeons ranged open world farm mainly u cant have the easiest class to rule in all aspect of game forever that would be just stupid.....

[Ryjian]

12 minutes ago, Takao said:

i dont get it u already crying over something that didint even happened yet :D ye summoners dont have bright future but well that class is build around pve suport solo dungeons ranged open world farm mainly u cant have the easiest class to rule in all aspect of game forever that would be just stupid.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/41i2kh/if_youre_still_deciding_on_a_class_this_may_help/

 

Technically, every class is able to solo. Others faster than others. FM being the fastest. So would that make FM the easiest class by your logic?

[RyceCream]

So you're already complaining that summoners are about to fall off their OP train or whatever you wanna call it?

If BMs can put up with the trash tier that they currently are with skill/knowledge, summoners can hold their positions later on. It's no joke when probably 90% of summoners don't know what a grab break is, while most other classes learn such a difficult technique right when they stop playing against bots.

 

1- I'm sure other summoners can chime in here as I can't explain it well enough. Your skills are not unreliable.

 

2- I can't tell if you're complaining about 50 BMs or current BMs. If you lose to a BM this patch, there's no future for you regardless. #1 BM in Korea has no advice on beating a summoner right now. That's how one-sided it is for summoners.

 

All the other ones I'm not too sure about because I haven't had the chance to play the easiest class in the game. It all boils down to learning your class as well as other classes. 

 

Talking about unbalanced, it would be unbalanced to have the easiest faceroll class in the game to be allowed to faceroll to top tier.

[Purestic]

Did you just make a cry post about every class? As a summoner? Mostly based on the amount of CC? 7/10 would read again.

[TheRealElvis]

You already have a 2-in-1 with that pussycat of your's. Can't have it all.

[Takao]

34 minutes ago, Ryjian said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/41i2kh/if_youre_still_deciding_on_a_class_this_may_help/

 

Technically, every class is able to solo. Others faster than others. FM being the fastest. So would that make FM the easiest class by your logic?

wtf u talking about its clear that for solo pve is summoner easier not fastest i never said they are fastest......... your logic is just transmuting topic to offtopic ......

[Yamyatos]

As far as i know, while they will drop in popularity (who would have thought that. Tad to strong right now..) they will still be viable. Like.. all classes. The game in the korea version should be pretty damn well balanced since it's an esport. There will always be 1-2 more or less popular classes and those will change from patch to patch.

 

And also.. i did not look it up for this, but they are still played in tournaments, right? They are just no noob stompers anymore. Or well i guess they are since "2v1" but they wont be op anymore. No reason to complain..

 

Edit: Also while it might be true that summoners have one or two less cc than other classes, you'll always have one more cat than any other class lol. Dont forget that. Also dont forget that your cat sitting on the oponent is basically one of the strongest ccs in the game and you can deal massive amounts of damage in that time. Do dont only list your disadvantages if you're going to compare classes.

 

Oh and btw i'm maining bm. I cant say that i play a lot of pvp, but heck this class sucks. I mean, sure with skill you can probably still win but i dont think that there is currently a class that's worse off than bm - yet you dont see us complaining. In fact.. i never saw a "bm too weak" post in the forum until now. 

[GodofWrath]

Hahaha.

[Reyva]

I don't see why you're complaining.  In a future patch, KR version is giving you the ability to summon Odin.  Has a skill to instant kill any enemies in its path, its aoe, and affects bosses.  Can't get much more ez-mode than that.  Though I hear if you don't want to use that ez-mode skill of his, he has skills that don't instant kill, but do high damage.

[DarkSkyBunny]

as far as i can see summoners are getting buffed, we get more points to put in to other useful abilitys like 60% cat heal in pvp specs say bye bye to destros just ani cancel killing your pet in seconds. there is also other skills that are useful that alot don't bother with in pvp such as the 25% hp shield on seed shroud when you fail to counter an attack.

 

summoners have more then just 4 cc's lets list them

1 cat stun (from lunge)

2 roots( if the enemy's ss is down)

3 daze from thorn strike

4 daze from strike (cat hammer)

5 ankle biter ( cat knockdown)

6 beckon(cat recall spec'd 3 down for knockback *grab braker*)

7 hammer spin (knockback if spec'd and someones stupid enough to grab your cat)

8 uppercut+playtime ( followed after daze knocks your enemy in the air and keeps them there for a few second)

9 power pounce (followed after knockdown/daze/stun holds the target down for 5 seconds)

10 brier patch (can be spec'd to block gap closing abilitys could be considered a cc)

 

if you think summoners have so little cc's then think again. on top of all these listed above we can heal our selfs if anything we have more surviveability in pvp then any other class just depends on whos playing the summoner and how skilled they are.

[Succubus Lilith]

2 hours ago, Ryjian said:

5* - ForceMaster have 5 CC on top of their Freeze safeguards which heal them for a lot and then Divine Veil which heals for a lot. And the ability to constantly freeze enemies in place by hitting them or being hit, such bullcrap. Because once you use your SS on summoner, you basically get frozen in place again, at this point if your SeedShroud is down and X too, you're fcked.

 

2 hours ago, Ryjian said:

Freeze safeguards which heal them for a lot and then Divine Veil which heals for a lot.

 

2 hours ago, Ryjian said:

Divine Veil which heals for a lot.

 

The veil's heal is extremely unreliable without constant use, don't act like its a lot. The only reason a FM would be constantly using it against you is to block your ranged attacks.

The ice statue heal only works if you hit the FM during it, unless they decided to spec into the longer CD one.

 

This thread is at least highly amusing. I was waiting for a summoner to notice the decline in power.

Makes me wonder what the next bandwagon class will become.

[Aevri]

Reminded me if summoner is not a 1-star difficulty class what would be? I think NC KR need to fill that in with a new class or just move summoner to 1-star class.

[KeIIy]

A Sommuner crying for balance ,,, this make my day ...

[Ziga]

as a Summoner main myself, I don't think the issue of CC is what makes us fall HARD in high tier pvp. It seems that it has more to do with how the class is designed.

 

For starters, We summoners rely more on field control than any other class ( got to pay attention to my cat "buddy" and see if he is fine, manage most of my CC's which the cat is mainly responsible for, health, distance and my  defensive CD ). 

because we are also built to be a 2 in 1 marshmallow class, the way to fight against any summoner comes to any of 2 ways: CC the hell out of the summoner and burst them down (can't give cats any commands during hard CC) or Kill the cat first (unless it goes into tank stance) then summoner (kill the cat infront of summoner after tank stance wears off). Any of those 2 approach works interchangeably in a duel. Summoner Pwns in low tier pvp but once you figure out how to deal with them it becomes another dead cat gallery. as for other classes its more of a Figure out how they build and play then deal the hurt when the opportunity comes up.

 

Since we are so easy to kill with the limited 2 option way of approach, we have to manage the full use of the class and understand the build and playstyle of our opponent to ensure victory (usually by annoying the hell out of them and make them make mistakes). 

This is what makes us the hard to master class.

 

So with all said, I don't think its a balance issue in my opinion. Just the mechanic and learning curve of this class.

 

P.S. I'm leveling up a warlock because I'm not a cat person...why did they have to give us cats....why not foxes or something :(

[amorent]

3 hours ago, Ziga said:

as a Summoner main myself, I don't think the issue of CC is what makes us fall HARD in high tier pvp. It seems that it has more to do with how the class is designed.

 

For starters, We summoners rely more on field control than any other class ( got to pay attention to my cat "buddy" and see if he is fine, manage most of my CC's which the cat is mainly responsible for, health, distance and my  defensive CD ). 

because we are also built to be a 2 in 1 marshmallow class, the way to fight against any summoner comes to any of 2 ways: CC the hell out of the summoner and burst them down (can't give cats any commands during hard CC) or Kill the cat first (unless it goes into tank stance) then summoner (kill the cat infront of summoner after tank stance wears off). Any of those 2 approach works interchangeably in a duel. Summoner Pwns in low tier pvp but once you figure out how to deal with them it becomes another dead cat gallery. as for other classes its more of a Figure out how they build and play then deal the hurt when the opportunity comes up.

 

Since we are so easy to kill with the limited 2 option way of approach, we have to manage the full use of the class and understand the build and playstyle of our opponent to ensure victory (usually by annoying the hell out of them and make them make mistakes). 

This is what makes us the hard to master class.

 

So with all said, I don't think its a balance issue in my opinion. Just the mechanic and learning curve of this class.

 

P.S. I'm leveling up a warlock because I'm not a cat person...why did they have to give us cats....why not foxes or something :(

It's not that hard, cat grapple and sunflower spam. Here, grats on high plat.

[RiseUp]

3 hours ago, Ziga said:

This is what makes us the hard to master class.

[Glissando]

Every class in this game is a joke in terms of difficulty, I usually pop in Demons' Souls if I actually want a challenge. I'm honestly surprised people even take pvp seriously in a game full of bots and hackers. The only hard thing about playing this game is the 2 second delay on skills(Thanks NCSoft!).

[VirtuoZzzo]

That's why KR server right now has a summoner with 110 wins / 0 loses streak in top 3 pvp ladder.

ggbbkkthx

[Prototypemind]

Summoner is genuinely the one class that has no room to complain even in the 50 patch. If you're moderately good you can still easily maintain gold. You have the most ridiculous number of CCs and escapes in the game, on top of having a companion that you can use to LoS. Even in their current state at 50 they're still too powerful in terms of what players can manage with minimal skill. Your complaints could not be more invalid and baseless.

[Spin2win]

One of the funniest threads i've read on these forums.

[Travolta]

Even tho he's talking about lvl50 +10 HM these are the arguments:

 

• Summoners are strong lvl45 now, they don't deserve to be good at lvl50 high PvP. They deserve to be punished for having a good class now.
• Summoners are more easy to play than the other classes, they are not allowed to be high rated, if they should managed to get to a High tier they deserve to be hated because it was sososososo EASY for them, they got it GIFTED to them because all the other classes are so insanely hard to play. (I played many classes, like KFM+Sin, I don't think any of them are hard to play...)
• Summoners can't be allowed to be good in PvP, because they are already good in soloing PvE, you can't have a class be good in both or let's quote the other guy "you can't have it all" in an eSport game. For some strange reason, it's okay if your class is bottom tier in PvP when it's high tier in PvE! Just in a way of, you have to suck somewhere, you just have to.
• As a funny side note, all the BMs throwing in their jokes in here how bad they have it now, even tho OP clearly talks about lvl50
• It is a FACT, that Warlocks + Summoners are falling off HARD in Korea. Also the Leaderboards in Korea are insanely filled with wintraders, but please, take the #3 summoner as an argument for yourself, even tho, that guy did wintrade hard and doesn't represnt the actual weak state of lvl50 Sums
• Summoners have a cat, even tho, you have to take BOTH TOGETHER TO HAVE A COMPLETE CLASS, we take this as an argument like this: Hey guys, YOU HAVE CATS; we DONT; YOU HAVE MORE THAN WE DO. I really don't want to go into this one more, because the stupidity of these people goes into some serious next level shit. They treat the Summoner as a whole class on it's own, with the Cat as a second player level person, who just adds on top of it. In their heads it's like 2 KFM's fighting 1 KFM, 2 Sins fighting 1 Sin, etc.

 

I didn't feel like writing more, but the arguments of ppl are worth nothing. Literally garbage, everything I've read in this thread this far is utter useless, the arguments people bring have no base at all and couldn't be more wrong. How dare a Summoner fall off the top100 Ladder with it's class completely. I mean, BMs are suffering right now, even tho, there are BMs at the highest ratings, it's okay if Summoners fall off the Ladder completely because hell, it's time to get punished for having a good class atm.

 

You can't have a discussion like this with kids/babys, it will only annoy you because their arguments come from e point of "mimimi I lost to a summoner, mimimi apparently the summoner needs literally 0 skill and get's everything for free while beeing a horrible player otherwise, let's forget all the Sums stuck at Gold, they are just bad at this game, we can't count them in on our arguments."

 

I don't know if other ppl feel the same, but it annoys the shit out of me when ppl pretend their classes are SO HARD to play. I have 4 lvl45s from a Summoner to a KFM, it doesn't take that much more skill for me to play my KFM, it just does not. Summoner is EASYER than the other classes to grasp the mechanics, that's it, all of the classes are easy as fk. There are a billion YouTube Videos literally spoon feeding you how to play your class.

 

I get into situations where it's 10times more easy to play my KFM, even tho we all seem to agree upon, KFM takes insane amount of skill to play. Like God Tier, if you aren't a God you shouldn't even try, the class is SO HARD to play, damn, so hard. Then I get into situations where I have a better time on my Summoner.

 

I have several Arena games, where I win with MUCH LESS effort on my KFM, yes, #truestory. Then I also have games where it's more easy with my Summoner. 

[Ghayatea]

All you need to do as summoner is to play around your low cd gat grapple. Why do you cry if u got alot of sustain and tools to survive and do this? anyways 18s cat grapple is next level BS, what is so hard to play around it?

[Artifact]

Just like how every class has a different name their skills are also going to be different :p

 

I also don't agree with how summonses don't have escapes, did you ever try to spec your E? Do you fully utilize your X shield and the 1-2-F escapes?? Do you use SS when you really need to? I listed 4 escapes already and a shield. e can also be specd to remove CC.

 

Smnr playstyle is that you constantly hide and avoid getting CC'd between escape cool downs and proceed to annoy players. 

 

I also think this might be satire