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Getting harder and harder to make gold in this game.


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Not sure what else to sell on the auction house. Soulstone and Moonwater tears are all dropping in price so fast it's not even worth trying to farm them anymore. Anyone got any tips on what I can sell?

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Just now, Koter said:

Not sure what else to sell on the auction house. Soulstone and Moonwater tears are all dropping in price so fast it's not even worth trying to farm them anymore. Anyone got any tips on what I can sell?

If you need money right away, those two are your only best bet, but if you want money in the long run, do crafting and gathering, and stack some soulstones and moonwater tears for when 50 hits, or at least soul stones, you'll need over 9000. OR you can just level 6 alts (2 accounts) to 45, do dailies with em, and there you go

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At least I benefit a bit from the price lowering. Sure, I haven't bought much yet but I still have not upgraded past Profane and I'll need soulstones for it. I don't do pvp nor faction stuff (because it's essentially an invitation to being ganked repeatedly since I'm on the outnumbered faction on my server and every time I tried switching the other guys are full) so my only soulstone source is market and that one daily. Will we need soulstones at least? Those will most probably be needed in droves. Wouldn't be surprised if a single upgrade required 1000 or so.

Edited by Fatalito
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3 hours ago, Valkitty said:

If you need money right away, those two are your only best bet, but if you want money in the long run, do crafting and gathering, and stack some soulstones and moonwater tears for when 50 hits, or at least soul stones, you'll need over 9000. OR you can just level 6 alts (2 accounts) to 45, do dailies with em, and there you go

But I heard soulstone is way easier to obtain at silverthingy quests ? 

 

won't the price dropped instead ?

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1 minute ago, Rief said:

But I heard soulstone is way easier to obtain at silverthingy quests ? 

 

won't the price dropped instead ?

Dunno where you heard that or what easy means for you, if by easy you understand that doing faction dailies is fun, then maybe, I am not aware of droprates but I am fully aware of the demand there will be, considering most stuff will require around 150-250+ soulstones (breakthroughs, craft) and most people will want to get in the new zone geared enough to do some damage to mobs. That's just my opinion, maybe you're right and prices will drop.

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Just now, Rief said:

My friends play in other version of BnS, and they said the soulstone priced dropped because bots can farm soulstones on repeatable quests after patch 50. 

Other versions have different economy, for example in KR you can get to 70k gold in max 2-3 weeks, so no point in comparing.

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1 minute ago, Valkitty said:

Dunno where you heard that or what easy means for you, if by easy you understand that doing faction dailies is fun, then maybe, I am not aware of droprates but I am fully aware of the demand there will be, considering most stuff will require around 150-250+ soulstones (breakthroughs, craft) and most people will want to get in the new zone geared enough to do some damage to mobs. That's just my opinion, maybe you're right and prices will drop.

My friends play in other version of BnS, and they said the soulstone priced dropped because bots can farm soulstones on repeatable quests after patch 50. 

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2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

I find it funny how everyone is crying they cant make money because items are dropping in price.

Do you dailies and you get 20g per day per character.

Here's the explanation how MMOs work:

Making ingame gold is always connected to farming time and to real life money.

You can make 20g per day? No problem, but you have to invest like 4h. People can do this for 1-2 weeks, then it gets boring. And here's the cash influence: any odd job you get (e.g. work at McDonalds or whatever) yields e.g. 8€/h. If e.g. gold seller offer 1g for 0.6€ (dunno exact ratio), you could choose:  work 1.5h at McDonalds and buy gold or farm 4h boring dailies. This is just an example, keep in mind that usually employed people earn in average more than the McDonalds wage.

 

And this is the breaking point. If gold is too hard to earn, it's easier to buy gold. And apparently the gold sellers have enough customers and making a lot of profit.

I already mentioned the Tera concept. In Tera, you have to possibility to farm (invest time), to buy indirectly gold off the Tera shop (invest cash) or to mix/change whenever you like. I dont know the exact numbers, but this kills the business for the gold sellers. The last time we saw a gold seller in chat we just laughed at their bad gold prices. No reasonable player is buying gold off the sellers as you have better ways to convert your cash.

 

And this balance with farming gold vs. buying gold is apparently not focused by NCsoft. Just imagine triple gold from dailies. No one would buy gold from goldsellers anymore.

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Yeah, the amount of gold you can obtain now is significantly diminishing since bots are controlling/manipulating market prices with the soulstones and moonwater transformation stones. Another issue with this is that a lot of things that are essential in this game have static values-- such as the requirements to upgrade items and craft items, but the most frustrating is the amount of time required to complete a craft. which for the most important are like 12+ hours. 

 

A good aspect with the bots is that they deflate the prices of soulstones/moonwater stones, allowing players to buy them dirt cheap which is good for the casual player. But to the players that farm soulstones and craft mts for their main source of income, this really screws them over. Big time. It is already hard as is to farm gold, but now it is beginning to look bleak. In just one week, soulstone and mts prices HALVED...

 

 

The supply of soulstones and mts have increased, but so has their DEMAND. Infact, the demand has increased pretty significantly. All of this increase in supply and demand happened in an extremely rapid pace-- something like a week! Prices should not plummet like this in a normal market without bots...since demand is keeping up with the supply at an equivalent pace, we should be seeing the price following a more linear progression, not a steep slope. But now with bots flooding the market, they have drastically increased the supply and cut prices significantly to induce demand-- which they can afford to do since they completely profit off botting. Not to mention the snow ball effect bots have on the player supply of soulstones, which adds to deflated prices since players more easily can attain gold+ and win easy beans against bots. 

 

This is extremely frustrating. Bots are infecting ALL aspects of the game now, and I'm on the verge of quitting this game until this gets resolved or atleast monitored to reasonable levels. 

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13 minutes ago, SpartanGamer said:

A good aspect with the bots is that they deflate the prices of soulstones/moonwater stones, allowing players to buy them dirt cheap which is good for the casual player.

I have to correct this. In the short run, cheap SS/tears/whatever is nice. In the long run, we players are shifting gold from active players to gold sellers. Now the gold sellers have more moneypower and are able to change their offers, regarding their turnover and profit numbers. This means, that they can lower their gold prices as they have a stable gold income/source (sorry, I'm not good in explaning macroeconomics as I only heard a couple of semesters in university).

 

I'll try giving a simplified example:

One server. Playerbase has 20.000 gold. All gold sellers have 20.000 gold. Equal moneypower. Now playerbase starts buying cheap SS/tears. Playerbase now has 10.000 gold, goldseller 30.000 gold. They now have "more/triple moneypower" and can lower their prices, e.g. from 1€/1g to 0.6€/1g.

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1 hour ago, Celestine said:

Here's the explanation how MMOs work:

Making ingame gold is always connected to farming time and to real life money.

You can make 20g per day? No problem, but you have to invest like 4h. People can do this for 1-2 weeks, then it gets boring. And here's the cash influence: any odd job you get (e.g. work at McDonalds or whatever) yields e.g. 8€/h. If e.g. gold seller offer 1g for 0.6€ (dunno exact ratio), you could choose:  work 1.5h at McDonalds and buy gold or farm 4h boring dailies. This is just an example, keep in mind that usually employed people earn in average more than the McDonalds wage.

 

And this is the breaking point. If gold is too hard to earn, it's easier to buy gold. And apparently the gold sellers have enough customers and making a lot of profit.

I already mentioned the Tera concept. In Tera, you have to possibility to farm (invest time), to buy indirectly gold off the Tera shop (invest cash) or to mix/change whenever you like. I dont know the exact numbers, but this kills the business for the gold sellers. The last time we saw a gold seller in chat we just laughed at their bad gold prices. No reasonable player is buying gold off the sellers as you have better ways to convert your cash.

 

And this balance with farming gold vs. buying gold is apparently not focused by NCsoft. Just imagine triple gold from dailies. No one would buy gold from goldsellers anymore.

If you need 4h a day to dailies on one character you are doing something wrong.

 

Anyways....do not compare this to tera, in tera you have no other way to make gold than sell stuff from dungeons or selling EMP. Thats it.

 

In BnS on the other hand you have dailies which let you earn a very decent amount of gold which isnt overflowing the market as much.  Point is most players are just to lazy to do their dailies and look for an easy alternative. We sorry that doesnt exist and with 50 content the spoulstones will drop even more and tears wont be needed at all. I made over 1k gold by doing dailies alone on 2 characters.

 

The time invested is worth it more than farming for items.

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6 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

If you need 4h a day to dailies on one character you are doing something wrong.

 

Anyways....do not compare this to tera, in tera you have no other way to make gold than sell stuff from dungeons or selling EMP. Thats it.

 

In BnS on the other hand you have dailies which let you earn a very decent amount of gold which isnt overflowing the market as much.  Point is most players are just to lazy to do their dailies and look for an easy alternative. We sorry that doesnt exist and with 50 content the spoulstones will drop even more and tears wont be needed at all. I made over 1k gold by doing dailies alone on 2 characters.

 

The time invested is worth it more than farming for items.

Okay, let's take your numbers. 2 characters, less than 4h per day. 1k gold overall, makes 500g per character. Given your 20g per day, you have to play 25 consecutive days, both characters, doing dailies only. 

 

The game has been launched on ..19th Jan, so it's out like ..8 weeks (=56 days). Even if you played since launch and leveled super-fast, your major/whole game experience is: farming.

 

And exactly this is my point. Of course 1k gold legal farming is impressive. But buying my way in to 1k gold is still far easier than the amount of work you put in. And this is where I talk about inbalance.

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2 minutes ago, Celestine said:

Okay, let's take your numbers. 2 characters, less than 4h per day. 1k gold overall, makes 500g per character. Given your 20g per day, you have to play 25 consecutive days, both characters, doing dailies only. 

 

The game has been launched on ..19th Jan, so it's out like ..8 weeks (=56 days). Even if you played since launch and leveled super-fast, your major/whole game experience is: farming.

 

And exactly this is my point. Of course 1k gold legal farming is impressive. But buying my way in to 1k gold is still far easier than the amount of work you put in. And this is where I talk about inbalance.

You forget that the actual farming is just the 24 man instances. Everything else is just common game play as you do your dailies there as you run the dungeons for soulshields / skill books / costumes  etc.

 

Not to mention this is a korean game so obviously grind is a part of it.

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Due to work and hobbies I do not play this game as much as I used to yet I still have awakened pirate (soon true once I get tablets)

and I have 200g currently.

 

I just run BSH/lab, and let people bid the crap out of costumes and skill books... Now of course items do not drop each run, but they do drop often enough that I make a decent amount of gold.

Plus I do dailies and what not (soulstones I never sell because I have a few alts/main once 50 hits)

 

 

 

but if your playing the game and just expect dailies to make all the gold you need than I feel sorry for you... that would drive me insane.....

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Focus on the best time:gold ratio dailies.

 

Do the 24p runs first. Both of them combined give you 6.5g. Enter the instance solo, open your map and check how many bosses are up (look at the red devil marks). If you see all of them up, you entered a fresh channel: leave and re-enter. Keep doing this until you get into a channel with multiple bosses killed. This is so you enter a channel where Poh/MM will spawn quicker. Finishing the rest of the quests is pretty fast, takes me about 25-30 minutes to complete each 24p instance. So that's about 6.5g in 1 hour.

 

Mushin is another fast daily, but depends on how high you can climb. I usually finish up to 8-2 every day in about 25 minutes, and skip 8-3 cause it's not worth the time. Up to 7F gives you 2.8g, up to 8-2 gives you 4.2g. If you're able to do this, you can farm up to 10g+ in 1.5-2 hours.

 

Unfortunately, crafting is not a stable money making method since market prices fluctuate a lot, and is dictated by bots pretty much (since soulstones is needed for everything). Dailies is the only stable source of income, and it comes down to how much motivation you have to repeat the same grind everyday. Fortunately, I do some of my dailies with my clan over discord, and it makes it more fun. But doing it solo can get pretty boring pretty fast. Hang in there!

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4 hours ago, Celestine said:

I have to correct this. In the short run, cheap SS/tears/whatever is nice. In the long run, we players are shifting gold from active players to gold sellers. Now the gold sellers have more moneypower and are able to change their offers, regarding their turnover and profit numbers. This means, that they can lower their gold prices as they have a stable gold income/source (sorry, I'm not good in explaning macroeconomics as I only heard a couple of semesters in university).

 

I'll try giving a simplified example:

One server. Playerbase has 20.000 gold. All gold sellers have 20.000 gold. Equal moneypower. Now playerbase starts buying cheap SS/tears. Playerbase now has 10.000 gold, goldseller 30.000 gold. They now have "more/triple moneypower" and can lower their prices, e.g. from 1€/1g to 0.6€/1g.

The first part of what you're saying makes sense and is relevant to the issue, but you cannot apply real world macro economics to an mmo since in an mmo there is potentially an unlimited supply of gold/materials you can make. In the real world where actual money represents a product/good of real value, the creation of wealth is much slower and there are limits to how much of a particular thing you can accumulate, whereas in an mmo there are no restrictions to the creation of gold/some materials.  Players can continually create wealth, so the balance of money power between gold sellers and players isn't really an issue. Not only that, the wealth of goldsellers/bots will eventually go back into the playerbase because that is their goal-- to sell gold for real life money. It's just the interim between those transactions that effects the in game economy, which again isn't significant in terms of money power.  

 

The real issue is the fact that gold sellers are using the bots to make a 100% profit, in every sense of the world, in selling anything they acquire in game. They are not spending any personal time farming for the materials. They can afford to drop the prices because of that, and will manipulate the market prices, ie dropping them, to eliminate competition. By significantly undercutting the prices they are increasing their sales. It's slow at first since the bots will need to generate revenue, but once they start getting a large amount of gold, you will see the prices plummet like we are seeing because they can afford to(like you were saying) and to drive out competitors. The ideal situation for gold sellers is to sell so cheap to drive out real players from selling their ss. A huge portion of the market and making gold for real life players basically disappears. 

 

I never said that it wasn't negative in the long run, however, I actually completely agree with that statement. Bots/gold sellers deflate the prices of whatever item they sell, and thus increases the purchasing power of the playerbase for those particular goods, meaning they can buy more of them, thus increasing the demand. This translates into more profits for them, and the cycle continues. A significant portion of real players will not be selling as much ss as before because they are being driven out by the low prices. Gold sellers are really just monopolizing certain parts of our in game market. 

 

As long as this continues, more bots will be made since it is in their desires to make up for the decreasing prices with more bots to increase their supply of particular materials/gold.

Edited by SpartanGamer
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37 minutes ago, RyuueLaview said:

I get like 8-10 gold per set of dailies for nsh and poh 24.  And then also pvp dailies.  That's plenty in a day for me. just takes some time to save up to the thousands T^T

with silver frost coming soon most dailies will give us 3-5 gold per so dont worry lots of gold incoming becuase legendaries will take thousands of golds to achieve :3

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9 hours ago, SpartanGamer said:

Yeah, the amount of gold you can obtain now is significantly diminishing since bots are controlling/manipulating market prices with the soulstones and moonwater transformation stones. Another issue with this is that a lot of things that are essential in this game have static values-- such as the requirements to upgrade items and craft items, but the most frustrating is the amount of time required to complete a craft. which for the most important are like 12+ hours. 

 

A good aspect with the bots is that they deflate the prices of soulstones/moonwater stones, allowing players to buy them dirt cheap which is good for the casual player. But to the players that farm soulstones and craft mts for their main source of income, this really screws them over. Big time. It is already hard as is to farm gold, but now it is beginning to look bleak. In just one week, soulstone and mts prices HALVED...

 

 

The supply of soulstones and mts have increased, but so has their DEMAND. Infact, the demand has increased pretty significantly. All of this increase in supply and demand happened in an extremely rapid pace-- something like a week! Prices should not plummet like this in a normal market without bots...since demand is keeping up with the supply at an equivalent pace, we should be seeing the price following a more linear progression, not a steep slope. But now with bots flooding the market, they have drastically increased the supply and cut prices significantly to induce demand-- which they can afford to do since they completely profit off botting. Not to mention the snow ball effect bots have on the player supply of soulstones, which adds to deflated prices since players more easily can attain gold+ and win easy beans against bots. 

 

This is extremely frustrating. Bots are infecting ALL aspects of the game now, and I'm on the verge of quitting this game until this gets resolved or atleast monitored to reasonable levels. 

Bots aren't manipulating or controlling prices.   If the RMTers had their way, soul stones would sell for higher prices.   Botted items are subject to supply and demand.   Bots are generating too many items, so the prices goes down or bots won't generate any gold at all.

 

As for quitting the game until things get cleared up?   You might as well leave now.   NCSoft has shown that they can't or won't take effective measures to eliminate bots.

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7 hours ago, rocdog said:

Bots aren't manipulating or controlling prices.   If the RMTers had their way, soul stones would sell for higher prices.   Botted items are subject to supply and demand.   Bots are generating too many items, so the prices goes down or bots won't generate any gold at all.

 

As for quitting the game until things get cleared up?   You might as well leave now.   NCSoft has shown that they can't or won't take effective measures to eliminate bots.

Bots are controlling prices. In just one week the prices of soulstones and mts HALVED. You can take a look at the trade history in game. And it's no coincidence during that time the amount of bots sky rocketed...There are so many of them now. Before they were capped at medium gold elo in 1v1, now I consistently see them at 2k+ and low diamond. RMTers are having their way because soul stone prices are cheaper. And botted items are not subject to a natural supply and demand curve, for one, because they will then be subject to more competition. The supply causing the price to go down is only true when the demand of that particular item decreases too, but that's not the case-- again refer to the market history in game. Demand has always been steady in accordance with the pre-deflationary ss prices. The only time the prices would drop is IF the demand for them decreased with respect to the prices-- which would follow a much slower curve than what we are seeing-- or if competition is driving them down. But in our case bots are just dropping prices to eliminate competition so they control that part of the market. They have the resources and ability to do that. Real players do not. It's the same concept with monopolies in real world economics. 

 

When a business/corporation has significantly more resources and less production cost than their competitors, they can afford to lower the prices to drive the competition out of the market since it is not profitable for them to sell that resource any more. The business doing this floods the market with significantly cheaper goods and actually increases the amount of sales because of the increased purchasing power of money relative to that unit and the induced increase of demand because of the lowering of prices. The principle thing here is that RMTers can afford to tank prices so low because they profit completely from making their resources. They literally do nothing but wait for their countless bots to bring in the resources. A real life player who spent hours and hours grinding for their materials aren't going to undercut themselves BY HALF. How is this not understandable?

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