Assasins exploiting stealth completely, so *cricket*ing stupid!

[Phorni]

3 hours ago, Vecejj said:

 

15 minutes ago, panikas said:

Sins dont have a button thta just gives them stealth the only way for them to get stealth is if you hit into their counters.So just dont hit into them and if u know sin is stalling for time then when he puts his flower down just stand near it until it dissapears it only lasts for 20s and then go at them.

They do XD smoke screen I think it's called, anyways they need to spec into it but that doesn't make it impossible.

2 minutes ago, Nekuraba said:

So should we nerf every class that has something that casual players cannot figure out how to beat? Lets nerf all the summoners because the casuals cant beat them. Also the Sins because they can perma stealth lets not forget the LBDs that can spin forever. Also the force masters that make it so you cant move ever, and the KFMs that kill you 100 to 0. As I have said. The Sin is exploiting nothing. You're mad because they thought of a way to beat you. If you do not think of a way, that strat will keep on beating you. Don't have time to learn how to beat it? Well......we can't all go to BnS grand finals now can we?

In fact I think I was the first to post this strat on forums in retaliation to all the sins complaining about summoners XD...

 

But anyways the issue with this strategy is that... unless if ur opponent is a sin or u got too greedy... there is no way they can win... ie u always win on timer :3 and when I posted this strategy I didn't even play sin I only looked up their skill set on bnstree  :P  

 

Anyhow this strategy won't find any flaws in it except it takes much longer time to win the game so basically the guy can be 100% win rate but only got to 1950 elo when another really strong player already lands in diamond but that doesn't justify it XD and also streamers have made a list of sins who do it lol and they are called scumbags...  honestly it's not casual players finds no way to deal with it XD it's nobody has a way to deal with it 

[Nekuraba]

4 minutes ago, Phorni said:

 

They do XD smoke screen I think it's called, anyways they need to spec into it but that doesn't make it impossible.

In fact I think I was the first to post this strat on forums in retaliation to all the sins complaining about summoners XD...

 

But anyways the issue with this strategy is that... unless if ur opponent is a sin or u got too greedy... there is no way they can win... ie u always win on timer :3 and when I posted this strategy I didn't even play sin I only looked up their skill set on bnstree  :P  

 

Anyhow this strategy won't find any flaws in it except it takes much longer time to win the game so basically the guy can be 100% win rate but only got to 1950 elo when another really strong player already lands in diamond but that doesn't justify it XD and also streamers have made a list of sins who do it lol and they are called scumbags...  honestly it's not casual players finds no way to deal with it XD it's nobody has a way to deal with it 

Then FMs are just gonna have to hold that L, Because once again the sin isnt hacking or exploiting in anyway. Hes using a strategy and it works. if it has no counter, welp rip FMs.

[Phorni]

4 minutes ago, Nekuraba said:

Then FMs are just gonna have to hold that L, Because once again the sin isnt hacking or exploiting in anyway. Hes using a strategy and it works. if it has no counter, welp rip FMs.

Sry the issue is not only FM's have no counter, it's no class has one besides sin  :3 since their toxic bomb cannot be blocked nor parried nor countered XD 

 

And even if u healed up the dmg that bomb did to u, at end game calculation that dmg dealt still counts into it <3

[Vecejj]

5 minutes ago, Nekuraba said:

Then FMs are just gonna have to hold that L, Because once again the sin isnt hacking or exploiting in anyway. Hes using a strategy and it works. if it has no counter, welp rip FMs.

I would hold it as exploiting the mechanics of an ability and the timer itself.

 

4 minutes ago, Phorni said:

Dry the issue is not only FM's have no counter, it's no class has one besides sin  :3 since their toxic bomb cannot be blocked nor parried nor countered XD 

 

And even if u healed up the dmg that bomb did to u, at end game calculation that dmg dealt still counts into it <3

This exactly, thank you for understanding lol. There must be some way to deal with these sins, I seem to hit a wall of them just before reaching plat!

[Nekuraba]

Wait so what? Are you saying no class can counter a running Sin? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

[Phorni]

2 minutes ago, Vecejj said:

I would hold it as exploiting the mechanics of an ability and the timer itself.

 

This exactly, thank you for understanding lol. There must be some way to deal with these sins, I seem to hit a wall of them just before reaching plat!

In fact so far the only thing even the streamers did was - report as a not XD 

[Vecejj]

3 minutes ago, Phorni said:

In fact so far the only thing even the streamers did was - report as a not XD 

Sigh, if you do see anyone come up with a couner please tell me lol.

[panikas]

Stealth smoke has a 1min30s CD so you can only use it twice in a match, and no one uses it against FM anyway since normal smoke bomb is so much better in this matchup. Also u can I-frame Toxic bomb, for exapmle with your divine veil.

[Nekuraba]

To be honest I actually have no idea what they're talking about anymore. There is not enough down time between CDs to keep stealthing and running away the whole match. Somewhere in between CDs they're hitting the sins counter, getting hit by placement swap, getting hit by ice bomb, or getting hit by tab and or hook kick. Otherwise there is no way they can run from arena corner to corner non stop.

[Phorni]

21 minutes ago, panikas said:

Stealth smoke has a 1min30s CD so you can only use it twice in a match, and no one uses it against FM anyway since normal smoke bomb is so much better in this matchup. Also u can I-frame Toxic bomb, for exapmle with your divine veil.

The main thing is do u know when they will throw the toxic bomb XD 

17 minutes ago, Nekuraba said:

To be honest I actually have no idea what they're talking about anymore. There is not enough down time between CDs to keep stealthing and running away the whole match. Somewhere in between CDs they're hitting the sins counter, getting hit by placement swap, getting hit by ice bomb, or getting hit by tab and or hook kick. Otherwise there is no way they can run from arena corner to corner non stop.

They don't need much XD the main stealth mechanic is actually blink step at Max range...  because u can spam pressing f on last 0.5 seconds before stealth ends and honestly before ur character shows up on the opponents screen u would've restealthed behind them, yes they know u are behind them but that doesn't matter XD because u run faster XD 

 

Basically the way this is played is all about the first toxic bomb once u land that on the target who isn't on I frame... u have won it XD

 

Like the only possible way I can think of to counter this crap is on the square arena.. on the hexagonal one this doesn't work XD 

 

Basically sprint to a corner from minute 0 and face outwards and wait for a few seconds and then iframe for 10 seconds and u have a small chance of getting them out of stealth..  but if they wait patiently then this doesn't even work XD 

[panikas]

13 minutes ago, Phorni said:

The main thing is do u know when they will throw the toxic bomb XD 

They don't need much XD the main stealth mechanic is actually blink step at Max range...  because u can spam pressing f on last 0.5 seconds before stealth ends and honestly before ur character shows up on the opponents screen u would've restealthed behind them, yes they know u are behind them but that doesn't matter XD because u run faster XD 

 

Basically the way this is played is all about the first toxic bomb once u land that on the target who isn't on I frame... u have won it XD

 

Like the only possible way I can think of to counter this crap is on the square arena.. on the hexagonal one this doesn't work XD 

 

Basically sprint to a corner from minute 0 and face outwards and wait for a few seconds and then iframe for 10 seconds and u have a small chance of getting them out of stealth..  but if they wait patiently then this doesn't even work XD 

Honestly are you trolling? Because it seems you know nothing about SINs. Spam F ? What? None of the F skills gives you stealth. And you can only use blink step if you are out of combat.

[Nekuraba]

I'm totally lost.

[amorent]

l2p issue, good fms counter sins

[ChickenSandwich]

3 hours ago, ThugLife91 said:

Clearly sins counter FM, you cant complain about that, considering FM is a mage type class, in the timeline of all mmo-mmorpg games assasins/warrior classes always dominate/counters over mage classes, that was always the same in all mmorpg games, i think FM are pve class and not pvp, if u try pvp with that... there you go

 

lvl 45 cap is not FM's time to shine patch, we're not pure pve. Once we get proper legendary skills we'll be a lot better off. Yes as I said before it's doable to be decent on a FM and make it to top 50 but definitely not worth the struggle for most players right now, when there are other classes that can get the same results for way, and I do mean wayy less effort.  Look at it this way, you can drive a car  with your feet if you wanted too, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Same applies to FMs this lvl cap. Once we unlock impact legendary, its a whole new ball game. Block melee skills 0.5s - knock back enemy 5m and move back 5m. It's going to be beautiful. And lets pray they they release legendary frost palm skill.... pierce parry buff will be added. #OP. 

 

2 hours ago, Nekuraba said:

Just because you and your friends havent thought of anything yet doesnt mean there isnt one, otherwise there wouldnt be like 5 FMs in top 10 if it was a 0-10 matchup.

 

Just because the 1% of players can do it, doesn't mean you shit on the rest of the pvp population. Its best to keep as MANY players in your game as possible. If the majority is having an issue mastering a class, you should help them out. Those 1% of players will master any class, no matter what you change/remove.  They're just a teeny, tiny small amount of the population. You can split that 1% up even more and pretty much say only about 0.5% of them, even try to help the community get better. You can't always run to the top pvpers and say  look here john and sam can do it, so there's nothing wrong with the class, get good you scrub.  There's prob actually something really wrong/weird with the class, they've just found a way around, but just because they did doesn't mean you don't FIX it as a dev. 

[Nekuraba]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Just because the 1% of players can do it, doesn't mean you shit on the rest of the pvp population. Its best to keep as MANY players in your game as possible. If the majority is having an issue mastering a class, you should help them out. Those 1% of players will master any class, no matter what you change/remove.  They're just s teeny, tiny small amount of the population. You can split that 1% up even more and pretty much say only about 0.5% of them, even try to help the community get better. You can't always run to the top pvpers and say  look here john and sam can do it, so there's nothing wrong with the class, get good you scrub  There's prob actually something really wrong with the class, they've just found a way around, but the i just because they did doesn't mean you don't FIX it as a dev. 

I didn't shit on the rest of the pvp population, if those FMs can beat this 100% foolproof ez mode method of beating FM, (Which is just a sin playing Keepaway. Which btw wont even happen unless you keep activating their traps.) then it means the match is winnable. 

[Vecejj]

59 minutes ago, Nekuraba said:

I didn't shit on the rest of the pvp population, if those FMs can beat this 100% foolproof ez mode method of beating FM, (Which is just a sin playing Keepaway. Which btw wont even happen unless you keep activating their traps.) then it means the match is winnable. 

Look, I'm not claiming to be the best FM in the world but I know for a fact I'm not a bad FM. I've explained countless times what the match goes like, I do NOT hit into their counters I know what it looks like. The only time I do is when I use snowball middle tier which cancels their def CDs, this is the only time I can get a slither of damage in before they restealth, go to lotus, smoke bomb etc. 

 

Ive tried to explain to you, phorni knows exactly what I'm talking about too, it is very hard to grasp until it happens to you, I hope it doesn't because it's infuriating not being able to do anything about it. 

 

The same goes for my guild, a few of us have encountered them but one of my guildies couldn't understand how we couldnt unstealth them, it's very hard to explain but when it happens to you... You will be annoyed. 

 

I i know everything there is to counter an assassin. Frost sheathe the flash bomb, phantom grip / ice coil / meteor the smoke bomb, divine veil to stop body swaps / engage, 3 frost orbits for constant freeze and freeze when body swapping, spam 1 to destealth them, quick turn and spam 1 behind you if they do swap, stand near the lotus for when they escape cc, don't hit the counter when they swirl their hands unless using snowball middle tier. Did I miss anything? 

 

These type of sins do none of the above, they simply hit and run until the timer is out, that is it.

[amorent]

Watch Talbadar vods, he explains in great detail how to counter sins

[Vecejj]

1 minute ago, amorent said:

Watch Talbadar vods, he explains in great detail how to counter sins

Could you provide any links? I'm away atm so only have my phone! Would be appreciated.

[osirium]

As a KFM they are my natural counters but I have faced many assassins that actually deploy that tactic of poison bomb, burst then run away to the other side of the arena afterwards and since im slowed I can't even touch them at all.

 

I usually lose against those type of assassins because there isnt many things you can actually do cause they play the timer and for the love of god dont come here saying l2p against a SIN or go watch how pro's do it, add something constructive as some here said, for me as a KFM its almost impossible to catch them since i have 0 ranged abilities and the ones I can actually use require a target (out of stealth).

 

I completely understand the OP, against normal assassins with permastealth builds or other type of builds other than this "tactic" I have a 50% change to win the round but not agains this type of play to be honest, its not impossible but it's close.

[InstantDeath]

Stealth for assassin is like frost spells for Force Master. If you agree not to use your frost spells on me (including aproach block and ccs), i agree not to use my stealth :)

[Infamous]

Are you kidding me? FM kills assassins easily, I don't even know what's worse for sin to fight, summoner or FM. All FM has to do right now is just spam chill (blocks approach skills) and it's just pew pew pew, not to mention the roots and other stuff from freeze orbs. Also, fm has that beam that get sins easily out of hide + it has nice range. So better learn how to play with FM. Also,, I heard a little thing, that sins are not up to date, because they get some debuffs removed when using shadowslip or swap (you can notice that in the last patch when HM skills were introduced, sins didn't get any changes), so FM has really easy time  vs sin.  And also, since sins are on weaker side, there is nothing else left but to stall time, since other options won't give anything.

 

EDIT: I have actually seen FM who play with time stalling too, uses shields, heals and just waits.
 

[GodofWrath]

As a bm i agree. Exactly this happens; stun combo stealth stun combo stealth combo breaks ups flash then stun combo stealth stun combo stealth and on and on.

[Brainy]

The problem with these coward sins is people don't really know how to play against them. I had a couple of matches with one, he was running all game from corner to corner, saving his skills just to escape. One hit, run to the corner, another hit, run to the other corner and do their best to avoid anything I might try. Every match he won was at timer with 20k and even less damage done. I just can't cope with that as a destroyer...

[Bennive]

well. As sin i must say that I really enjoy the combat with every class except for FM and Summoners. 
I like action-packed battles full of evades dodges counters etc. you have to outplay your opponent. 
But sm and fm are breaking it. the drive. make a mistake with FM - you spend 50% of your hp facing empty spae or running like a cripple. Even without this frost orbs are damn good defensice skill. Escape from stun that snares your opponent. Well shit I can understand the frustration that leads players to play against fm using this shitty tactic. you don't get much fun in loosing this way. So why not get an easy win since you won't have fun anyway? 

But all this is okay actually. FM are managable for sin without this tactic. It CAN be an interesting play. 

Summoners on the other hand are the pinnacle of what "bad match-up" is for me. While cat is alive you can get your hopes about good and interesting match and hit the fan with them. Cause they are shit. This match-up is the only one that i will play like an *cricket* until the timer and feel no remorse about doing so.

[Vecejj]

2 hours ago, osirium said:

As a KFM they are my natural counters but I have faced many assassins that actually deploy that tactic of poison bomb, burst then run away to the other side of the arena afterwards and since im slowed I can't even touch them at all.

 

I usually lose against those type of assassins because there isnt many things you can actually do cause they play the timer and for the love of god dont come here saying l2p against a SIN or go watch how pro's do it, add something constructive as some here said, for me as a KFM its almost impossible to catch them since i have 0 ranged abilities and the ones I can actually use require a target (out of stealth).

 

I completely understand the OP, against normal assassins with permastealth builds or other type of builds other than this "tactic" I have a 50% change to win the round but not agains this type of play to be honest, its not impossible but it's close.

 

23 minutes ago, GodofWrath said:

As a bm i agree. Exactly this happens; stun combo stealth stun combo stealth combo breaks ups flash then stun combo stealth stun combo stealth and on and on.

 

22 minutes ago, Brainy said:

The problem with these coward sins is people don't really know how to play against them. I had a couple of matches with one, he was running all game from corner to corner, saving his skills just to escape. One hit, run to the corner, another hit, run to the other corner and do their best to avoid anything I might try. Every match he won was at timer with 20k and even less damage done. I just can't cope with that as a destroyer...

All of this, it's not a L2P issue at all and it's not only FM that are struggling to deal with this type of play. I honestly can't come up with a way to counter this, there is just no possible way to out run the Sin with a slow on you.