Disable Trading of Gold

[Tomoko]

1 minute ago, YuriScarlet said:

if you're playing the marketplace game, then why would I have issue with you? if you make alot of money selling keys or unsealing charms then be it. There is a fixed price on the general shop that erradicates all inflated prices. keys are easy to get and they sell for 10s20c along with unsealing charms. field repairs kits all of that are LEGIT. we're talking about people trading using the bidding system for an ABSURD amount of gold.

i would have issue because of 2 reasons

 

1. blocking gold trade would lead bots to use popular market items to transfer gold.   and thus would hurt my profits due to flooding the market with competition.

 

2. if bots are operating on the market, then merchants like me who play the market could get mixed up as bots as we have massive gold quanitities coming in and out of the market.

 

 

[YuriScarlet]

I mean look at all this people who already look supersuspicious. they have a marketplace for those items. if demand is high then the price would be high. play the game just right still if you want. its not like those items are needed for an unlimited amount nor if they hold an absurd amount of value if you have to compete with other people with their cheap crafting requirements.

3 minutes ago, Tomoko said:

i would have issue because of 2 reasons

 

1. blocking gold trade would lead bots to use popular market items to transfer gold.   and thus would hurt my profits due to flooding the market with competition.

 

2. if bots are operating on the market, then merchants like me who play the market could get mixed up as bots as we have massive gold quanitities coming in and out of the market.

 

 

yeah but they would have no other means transferring the gold, and if they do the bidding trade then they would be in a risk of getting banned. its not really that super hard to tell between someone who is using a fake account or one using a real account. if both parties are using a real account and both plead innocence then what stops ncsoft from tracking their account to see legitimacy? 

[Tomoko]

7 minutes ago, YuriScarlet said:

I mean look at all this people who already look supersuspicious. they have a marketplace for those items. if demand is high then the price would be high. play the game just right still if you want. its not like those items are needed for an unlimited amount nor if they hold an absurd amount of value if you have to compete with other people with their cheap crafting requirements.

yeah but they would have no other means transferring the gold, and if they do the bidding trade then they would be in a risk of betting banned. its not really that super hard to tell between someone who is using a fake account or one using a real account. if both parties are using a real account and both plead innocence then what stops ncsoft from tracking their account to see legitimacy? 

except they would have OTHER MEANS of transfering gold.

 

its called item trading.

 

bots farm a high value item. send it to buyer in mail. buyer sells it on market.  gets gold.

or bots send buyer high number of popular item like keys.  buyer sells on market. gets gold.

 

the auction system was 1 option. not the main one.

 

and the auction system can see EXTREMELY high valued bids. highest i've seen is 120g in a 6 person dungeon for a drop.

 

also. bots don't sell from bots.

bots send farmed items to a main account.  the main account(which is legit to trackers) gives it.   and there tend to be several main accounts.

 

go play EVE online. you'll learn all the ways to move currency in a market.

 

 

 

blocking gold trade just adds another step to transfer currency(aka change it to item. and resell item after transfer)

and blocking gold trade annoys players more than bots

 

blocking item trades.....will murder the game (see runescape for reference. the first major population drop occured when they did this.  the bot population didn't drop)

 

 

 

 

 

and theres also the "gold seller uses your account to farm gold" method seen on some games.

[Cetra]

Trading should be disabled period, of ANYTHING unless it's account bound.  Sure it kinda sucks but it would get rid of bots entirely and the game would much different.

[YuriScarlet]

5 minutes ago, Tomoko said:

except they would have OTHER MEANS of transfering gold.

 

its called item trading.

 

bots farm a high value item. send it to buyer in mail. buyer sells it on market.  gets gold.

or bots send buyer high number of popular item like keys.  buyer sells on market. gets gold.

 

the auction system was 1 option. not the main one.

 

and the auction system can see EXTREMELY high valued bids. highest i've seen is 120g in a 6 person dungeon for a drop.

 

also. bots don't sell from bots.

bots send farmed items to a main account.  the main account(which is legit to trackers) gives it.   and there tend to be several main accounts.

 

go play EVE online. you'll learn all the ways to move currency in a market.

what other high value item is there that legit players would try to defend themselves over this? you dont wanna play the market game so you try to manipulate people to selling something that doesnt hold much value? Im sure high level players wouldnt be dumb enough to buy something from you for an absurd price over the marketplace. most of the rmt trading is between 2 people bidding on an item for an absurd amount of price. IF ITS 6 people, and NONE OF THE REST are bots, if this kind of practice is DONE to other players on that same account the person is giving you the money, what would you think that person is?

 

PS: also if they keep sending honorary ornament to the person or a batch of it without any kind of high price and sell it for the same value on the marketplace for bots or bot's legit account to give you the money, this would still be the same case with those people buying through bidding. It narrows down suspicious players from participating RMT. Honorary ornament is rare, theres nothing else that would sell alot beside soulstone. if they decide to give you a batch of Soulstones so you can just sell it on the marketplace...then thats still risky for both parties.

[Tomoko]

2 minutes ago, Cetra said:

Trading should be disabled period, of ANYTHING unless it's account bound.  Sure it kinda sucks but it would get rid of bots entirely and the game would much different.

it would murder the game.

see runescape for reference.

 

Just now, YuriScarlet said:

what other high value item is there that legit players would try to defend themselves over this? you dont wanna play the market game so you try to manipulate people to selling something that doesnt hold much value? Im sure high level players wouldnt be dumb enough to buy something from you for an absurd price over the marketplace. most of the rmt trading is between 2 people bidding on an item for an absurd amount of price. IF ITS 6 people, and NONE OF THE REST are bots, if this kind of practice is DONE to other players on that person giving you the money, what would you think that person is?

oh i don't sell for absurd prices.  i sell in quantity

 

say a key sells for 10 silver.

i buy all of them in the 10-11 silver range.

and sell for 12-13silver. (its only 1-2 silver more. so players don't mind)

 

due to me buying out all of the keys at 10-11 silver range.  people have to buy 12-13 unless someone puts for lower.  but due to the mass quanity being at 12-13s.  this means new sellers will put in the 12-13 silver range to get profit.

if they sell for lower, i'll buy it out and put it for my price range. thus forcing buyers to go for my keys.

 

and thus, i've made 1-2 silver per key.

 

multiply this by 1000 keys.

and i'm making 1000 silver to 2000 silver per cycle.

 

 

and every cycle. i become richer. which lets me buy more keys than in previous cycles.  thus increasing it.

 

first cycle i do this with 1000 keys

2nd cycle, my profit lets me put in 1100 keys

3rd cycle, 1210 keys

4th cycle. 1500 keys

 

every cycle. the number of keys i'm cycling on market increase,  due to profit i made in previous cycle.   and my profit from each cycle increases.

 

 

welcome to market warfare.

[YuriScarlet]

you're pulling out all the strings that many legit players wouldn't think of, you're trying so hard to defend it. sometimes I wish this was B2P too with the amount of banning they're doing.

[YuriScarlet]

5 minutes ago, Tomoko said:

it would murder the game.

see runescape for reference.

 

oh i don't sell for absurd prices.  i sell in quantity

 

say a key sells for 10 silver.

i buy all of them in the 10-11 silver range.

and sell for 12-13silver. (its only 1-2 silver more. so players don't mind)

 

due to me buying out all of the keys at 10-11 silver range.  people have to buy 12-13 unless someone puts for lower.  but due to the mass quanity being at 12-13s.  this means new sellers will put in the 12-13 silver range to get profit.

if they sell for lower, i'll buy it out and put it for my price range. thus forcing buyers to go for my keys.

 

and thus, i've made 1-2 silver per key.

 

multiply this by 1000 keys.

and i'm making 1000 silver to 2000 silver per cycle.

 

 

and every cycle. i become richer. which lets me buy more keys than in previous cycles.  thus increasing it.

 

first cycle i do this with 1000 keys

2nd cycle, my profit lets me put in 1100 keys

3rd cycle, 1210 keys

4th cycle. 1500 keys

 

every cycle. the number of keys i'm cycling on market increase,  due to profit i made in previous cycle.   and my profit from each cycle increases.

 

 

welcome to market warfare.

see thats why there is a fixed price on the general shop, and there is a REASON Why the prices for those item specially charm is below the fixed price from the general shop. you wouldn't be making much money with your method. ALSO you're playing the market game. why would that effect you? sell 1000keys for a certain amount thats fine. they cant get a huge quantity of those item unless they craft it or do alot of dungeon. and also they get the keys from dailies only.

[Cetra]

1 minute ago, Tomoko said:

it would murder the game.

see runescape for reference.

 

oh i don't sell for absurd prices.  i sell in quantity

 

say a key sells for 10 silver.

i buy all of them in the 10-11 silver range.

and sell for 12-13silver. (its only 1-2 silver more. so players don't mind)

 

due to me buying out all of the keys at 10-11 silver range.  people have to buy 12-13 unless someone puts for lower.  but due to the mass quanity being at 12-13s.  this means new sellers will put in the 12-13 silver range to get profit.

if they sell for lower, i'll buy it out and put it for my price range. thus forcing buyers to go for my keys.

 

and thus, i've made 1-2 silver per key.

 

multiply this by 1000 keys.

and i'm making 1000 silver to 2000 silver per cycle.

 

 

and every cycle. i become richer. which lets me buy more keys than in previous cycles.  thus increasing it.

 

first cycle i do this with 1000 keys

2nd cycle, my profit lets me put in 1100 keys

3rd cycle, 1210 keys

4th cycle. 1500 keys

 

every cycle. the number of keys i'm cycling on market increase,  due to profit i made in previous cycle.   and my profit from each cycle increases.

 

 

welcome to market warfare.

I don't know what's going on in runescape so I can't comment on that, but this game is already "murdered" and "dead".  It's only getting worse, do you really think it will kill it any faster?  I dunno.

[Cetra]

10 minutes ago, YuriScarlet said:

you're pulling out all the strings that many legit players wouldn't think of, you're trying so hard to defend it. sometimes I wish this was B2P too with the amount of banning they're doing.

It should be B2P, F2P is absolute trash.  Yea, we all know it's nice and convenient to be able to jump into a game but.. Look what happens to every F2P MMO, always the same issues and the game always dies fast.  I still don't understand why any game should be free in the first place, why people have problems paying for things.  

[Shuchin]

this example of key trading is confusing, at least for the situation currently in B&S. At 1000 item stacks, the market commission fee is at 25%, so these small increments do nto work. I guess you could sell in stacks of 100, but then this cycling brings you quickly to the daily limit. So far I have a hard time earning more than 10 gold per day by playin the market...

[Tomoko]

11 minutes ago, YuriScarlet said:

you're pulling out all the strings that many legit players wouldn't think of, you're trying so hard to defend it. sometimes I wish this was B2P too with the amount of banning they're doing.

many legit players wouldnt think of?

 

dude, legit players don't need to think of it.   BOTS think of it.

 

i'm thinking like a bot so i can see ALL the ways they would counter a gold trade block.

 

 

IF you don't cover all ways bots will get around your block. then you simply make life worse for legit players. and slightly inconvient for bots. who care not at all.

 

 

and people DO think like this. EVE Online had people buy out the market of an item before an update. and raise the price by 200mill in game currency after the update.  crashing the economy. (how does it help them.  they goonswarm. they own all the item. so they profit)

 

 

9 minutes ago, Cetra said:

I don't know what's going on in runescape so I can't comment on that, but this game is already "murdered" and "dead".  It's only getting worse, do you really think it will kill it any faster?  I dunno.

what makes u think the game is murdered and dead?

 

its still got a healthy population.   bots annoy it yes.  but the population is still healthy.  the loss of population was just the hype dying down.   all MMOs follow a similar life.

 

if people stop buying from bots. they will dissapear.

 

7 minutes ago, Cetra said:

It should be B2P, F2P is absolute trash.  Yea, we all know it's nice and convenient to be able to just into a game but.. Look what happens to every F2P MMO, always the same issues and the game always dies fast.  I still don't understand why any game should be free in the first place, why people have problems paying for things.  

 

B2P would be fine with me.

 

but it has consequences.

 

namely account stealing. bots hunt accounts, steal them, and use them.

happened on ESO and happening right now on BDO.   and GW2 had a MAJOR issue with this on its original launch.

 

5 minutes ago, Shuchin said:

this example of key trading is confusing, at least for the situation currently in B&S. At 1000 item stacks, the market commission fee is at 25%, so these small increments do nto work. I guess you could sell in stacks of 100, but then this cycling brings you quickly to the daily limit. So far I have a hard time earning more than 10 gold per day by playin the market...

a daily limit thats easy to get around.

 

I wont say how, as while its legit, its what seperates the market players from normal players(and currently keeps the market free of bots crashing the market)

 

hint hint. EVE Online created this market warfare style. visit Jita to see it in action

[YuriScarlet]

7 minutes ago, Tomoko said:

many legit players wouldnt think of?

 

dude, legit players don't need to think of it.   BOTS think of it.

 

i'm thinking like a bot so i can see ALL the ways they would counter a gold trade block.

 

 

IF you don't cover all ways bots will get around your block. then you simply make life worse for legit players. and slightly inconvient for bots. who care not at all.

 

 

and people DO think like this. EVE Online had people buy out the market of an item before an update. and raise the price by 200mill in game currency after the update.  crashing the economy. (how does it help them.  they goonswarm. they own all the item. so they profit)

 

 

what makes u think the game is murdered and dead?

 

its still got a healthy population.   bots annoy it yes.  but the population is still healthy.  the loss of population was just the hype dying down.   all MMOs follow a similar life.

 

if people stop buying from bots. they will dissapear.

 

 

B2P would be fine with me.

 

but it has consequences.

 

namely account stealing. bots hunt accounts, steal them, and use them.

happened on ESO and happening right now on BDO.   and GW2 had a MAJOR issue with this on its original launch.

 

a daily limit thats easy to get around.

 

I wont say how, as while its legit, its what seperates the market players from normal players(and currently keeps the market free of bots crashing the market)

 

hint hint. EVE Online created this market warfare style. visit Jita to see it in action

well you quoted a comment i made from you but decided not to talk about the reason your argument doesnt make much sense with the amount of effort you are putting into defending this?

[Cetra]

4 minutes ago, Tomoko said:

many legit players wouldnt think of?

 

dude, legit players don't need to think of it.   BOTS think of it.

 

i'm thinking like a bot so i can see ALL the ways they would counter a gold trade block.

 

 

IF you don't cover all ways bots will get around your block. then you simply make life worse for legit players. and slightly inconvient for bots. who care not at all.

 

 

and people DO think like this. EVE Online had people buy out the market of an item before an update. and raise the price by 200mill in game currency after the update.  crashing the economy. (how does it help them.  they goonswarm. they own all the item. so they profit)

 

 

what makes u think the game is murdered and dead?

 

its still got a healthy population.   bots annoy it yes.  but the population is still healthy.  the loss of population was just the hype dying down.   all MMOs follow a similar life.

 

if people stop buying from bots. they will dissapear.

 

 

B2P would be fine with me.

 

but it has consequences.

 

namely account stealing. bots hunt accounts, steal them, and use them.

happened on ESO and happening right now on BDO.   and GW2 had a MAJOR issue with this on its original launch.

 

a daily limit thats easy to get around.

 

I wont say how, as while its legit, its what seperates the market players from normal players(and currently keeps the market free of bots crashing the market)

I don't agree that the game has a healthy population of "human" players, I think there's more bots then people that play the game.  As "one of those people" who's played MMOs for about 20 years and has seen what "Healthy" and "Dead" games look like, this game is dying a horrible death.  The forums are a barren wasteland compared to what a healthy community looks like.  I don't care of the trade off of B2P vs F2P, account stealing etc. is nowhere near as much of a rampant issue as bots etc.

I'm sure you and others disagree with my point of view and that's fine, this is how I personally feel and why I quit the game 3 weeks ago.  It's also why I won't play anymore F2P games, and why I jump ship as soon as things go south rather then sinking with Titanic as I have in the past.  It's simply not worth it, "I assure you she will sink".

Anyway, cheers.

[Mushna]

7 minutes ago, Cetra said:

I don't agree that the game has a healthy population of "human" players, I think there's more bots then people that play the game.  As "one of those people" who's played MMOs for about 20 years and has seen what "Healthy" and "Dead" games look like, this game is dying a horrible death.  The forums are a barren wasteland compared to what a healthy community looks like.  I don't care of the trade off of B2P vs F2P, account stealing etc. is nowhere near as much of a rampant issue as bots etc.

I'm sure you and others disagree with my point of view and that's fine, this is how I personally feel and why I quit the game 3 weeks ago.  It's also why I won't play anymore F2P games, and why I jump ship as soon as things go south rather then sinking with Titanic as I have in the past.  It's simply not worth it, "I assure you she will sink".

Anyway, cheers.

 

Truth hurts.

[Tomoko]

Just now, Cetra said:

I don't agree that the game has a healthy population of "human" players, I think there's more bots then people that play the game.  As "one of those people" who's played MMOs for about 20 years and has seen what "Healthy" and "Dead" games look like, this game is dying a horrible death.  The forums are a barren wasteland compared to what a healthy community looks like.  I don't care of the trade off of B2P vs F2P, account stealing etc. is nowhere near as much of a rampant issue as bots etc.

I'm sure you and others disagree with my point of view and that's fine, this is how I personally feel and why I quit the game 3 weeks ago.  It's also why I won't play anymore F2P games, and why I jump ship as soon as things go south rather then sinking with Titanic as I have in the past.  It's simply not worth it, "I assure you she will sink".

Anyway, cheers.

the forums is a very small % of a games population.

if you quit 3 weeks ago. why are you still here?

 

if you don't play F2P games. why are you still here.

 

 

and gratz, i've played MMOs for 16 years.  and of all the many MMOs i've played. very few have truely died.

 

on a games launch you have

the hype players who leave after the hype dies down (which for a game out in KR and JP for several years is pretty weak hype)

the disgruntled players who leave because they don't do well 

the players who leave because they think a class is OP and "going to ruin the game".  call em doom sayers

the players who leave because "the game's story was butchered" due to a ported game.

the mini hype people who come back every new update

 

and then you have the loyal players who play the game because they like the game.  these will stay with it till the end.  and are what the game's true playerbase is.

 

 

look at Mabinogi, its life is similar to BnS

popular on release.

hype died out.

bots flooded(and still flood to this day)

 

but its still alive. the core players keep it afloat.

 

 

look at Vindictus. 

butchered by the "pay per dungeon run" system on launch that killed the hype.

bots still flood it.

but the core playerbase remain loyaly.  and the game remains alive.

 

look at runescape.

destroyed by bad updates, lack of change, new competition, bots flooding, trade restrictions.

but still VERY MUCH alive to this day due to the players who love the game.

 

 

 

blade and soul will join all other MMOs.

losing players for reasons.

beign flooded by bots.

 

but keeping its core playerbase who love it for what it is.

 

 

Mabinogi is 12 years old now. 

Vindictus is 6

Runescape is 15

Rappelz is 7

Guild Wars is 11

Guild Wars 2 is 4

Dragon Nest is 6

flyff is 11

 

all of these have lost their hype playerbases.  All have bots in one for or another.  and on launch have had massive numbers of bots. that make our % of bot population look small.

 

of them, none have died.

 

Dungeon Fighters Online is 11.

it died in NA.

 

why? not because of bots.  but because its core playerbase wasn't big enough to support it.

 

 

a core playerbase is the players who determine if game lives or dies.   they will stay regardess of bots, bad updates, and hype.   because they truely like the game.

if the playerbase isn't big enough.  then the game dies.  no bots required.

[Tsuchiryu]

43 minutes ago, Cetra said:

Trading should be disabled period, of ANYTHING unless it's account bound.  Sure it kinda sucks but it would get rid of bots entirely and the game would much different.

 

29 minutes ago, Cetra said:

It should be B2P, F2P is absolute trash.  Yea, we all know it's nice and convenient to be able to jump into a game but.. Look what happens to every F2P MMO, always the same issues and the game always dies fast.  I still don't understand why any game should be free in the first place, why people have problems paying for things.  

Please quit forums too if you are gonna keep making absolute trash suggestions, not just game.

 

Seriously, it's bad enough that Heroic stuff is untradeable, making MORE stuff untradeable is, frankly, so downright retarded it should be autoban-worthy.

[Grillz]

Since Yuri is a smartass who calls others out for being dumb without any proof or justification whilst he's the imbecile being dumb. Here's proof. practice what you preach next time.

 

 

 

Also. From a goldsell website: