Gizakio

yay DPS Meters!!!

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KzE   
1 hour ago, KarmaINC said:

nice more tools for the elitist.

 

 

You cant be kicked, so whats the problem?

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Telethia   
10 minutes ago, Taemek said:

 

Stop the excuses.

 

I haven't seen this attitude for years now, it might have been around in WoW for awhile, but honestly, most people who strive to get the most out of their characters OR use it to monitor specific things like a certain amount of damage that needs to be applied to a boss fight or wipe 24 people know how to use it correctly.

 

This is just a decade old argument that holds no merit and if there is anyone out there still spouting off like how you say there is, it would be a minority of people and they would only be doing it for attention.

I don't really consider them excuses, but okay.

Then you must be incredibly lucky because it's in all games I play. They're there, and they're the loudest. Even if it's not the majority, it happens enough that it creates an environment where one deviation form the standard path means LOL U SUCK UR DPS IS HORRIBLE NOOB

Which is one thing in other games where, honestly there are right ways to play a character, and are pretty much the ONLY way.


But like I said previously, in BNS it just...stifles the amount of builds there are if you only concentrate on dps and damage output. For a game like bns, which has support specs that are JUST as important as damage dealing, especially in level 50 dungeons. And while I honestly don't care about some guy shoving their epeen in my face because they're top dps, it does create a toxic environment, and is more annoying than anything. The safest route for this would be a personal dps meter, where you could see your own dps, hell, you could even have a "congrats u did this much % on boss YAY U" without the possibility of shoving it into other people's faces. Because let's be honest, it will be abused by people int he west, and it WILL be rather annoying.

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DPS Meter ok as long as it is personal and no one else does see any numbers of it. No Copy paste feature or anything, just simple plain your Damage for testing.

Everything else is bullshit, because sooner or later people will start using it like "Recruiting for Dungeon xy at least xK dps"

It already happens that people are recruiting for Naryu Lab 6man!!! and require 430ap at least.

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Taemek   
11 minutes ago, Telethia said:

I don't really consider them excuses, but okay.

Then you must be incredibly lucky because it's in all games I play. They're there, and they're the loudest. Even if it's not the majority, it happens enough that it creates an environment where one deviation form the standard path means LOL U SUCK UR DPS IS HORRIBLE NOOB

Which is one thing in other games where, honestly there are right ways to play a character, and are pretty much the ONLY way.


But like I said previously, in BNS it just...stifles the amount of builds there are if you only concentrate on dps and damage output. For a game like bns, which has support specs that are JUST as important as damage dealing, especially in level 50 dungeons. And while I honestly don't care about some guy shoving their epeen in my face because they're top dps, it does create a toxic environment, and is more annoying than anything. The safest route for this would be a personal dps meter, where you could see your own dps, hell, you could even have a "congrats u did this much % on boss YAY U" without the possibility of shoving it into other people's faces. Because let's be honest, it will be abused by people int he west, and it WILL be rather annoying.

 

I don't think you understand what's coming in level 50 content.

 

There is going to be cookie cutter builds regardless if there is a DPS meter or not because at some point, people will simply put the math skills in to it to work it out manually and then that knowledge will slowly leak out. DPS meters just do it automatically.

 

Thing most people are forgetting is, no one is forcing anyone to play a way they don't want to play, you are free to find a clan or group of people who actually like a challenge and play against the status quo. A lot of players enjoy proving things can be done without following like sheep.

 

Just because you say you hate being told how to play, doesn't mean we have to play you want us to play, see how it works both ways with no possible way of proving who is wrong or right?

 

Edited by Taemek

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Telethia   
6 minutes ago, Enhance said:

I don't want a shiny label "DONE DID MOST DEEPS LOOK AT HIM" stuck to my name, neither does anyone actually interested in improving their performance rather than shoving themselves in others' faces. A personal DPS meter, the scales you can stand on and see "Yea looks like adding another shot of blazing palm to rotation adds dps so I'll try doing that".

 

 

This is exactly what I want in this game tbh, a personal dps meter, so you CAN perfect your own build, and figure out better rotations, for yourself. I often find myself thinking it would be such a great thing to have, because I want to know where I stand in dps, and what rotations I use, though I'm honestly too lazy to nitpick my playing style, so long as it just gets the job done :P

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Taemek   
5 minutes ago, Telethia said:

This is exactly what I want in this game tbh, a personal dps meter, so you CAN perfect your own build, and figure out better rotations, for yourself. I often find myself thinking it would be such a great thing to have, because I want to know where I stand in dps, and what rotations I use, though I'm honestly too lazy to nitpick my playing style, so long as it just gets the job done :P

 

Screen shots and guides kill that idea.

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Shîro   

FINALLY YES!
Was waiting for DPS meter whole time, I could have used ACT but it is against rules so..
DPS meter is needed in every game. If not for group at least for personal use. It would shut up all those "/pros* on reddit that keep saying which build makes more dmg overall. heard thousand of times that Helix deals more dmg then Dragoncall, yet I killed mushin bosses faster with dragoncall every run I used it.

For those who are hating DPS meter - get guild or friends who would run with you for your skill not dmg done + you can ignore people who are "omfg my dmg is better then you" and in xrealm you can't kick people so it doesn't matter. In other words your arguments are poor so stop it ;-)

When we started running bsh4 our leader said. Don't try to do max DMG just try to not get hit. And it did work better..

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1 hour ago, Arohk said:

 

how do you improve yourself if you don't know hown you perform dps wise?

When u say improve u mean to have your eyes in dps and no on cc's or mech's?only brake fingers for make top DPS?

no offence but if there a DPS meter=only for elitist.

You can improve your self without DPS meter :)

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Sins dont need dps meter hehe.

Well for me doing only arena its useless so i dont care if they apply it or not.

I just do arena sell soulstones then buy costumes slots n build slots

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Telethia   
2 minutes ago, Taemek said:

 

I don't think you understand what's coming in level 50 content.

 

There is going to be cookie cutter builds regardless if there is a DPS meter or not because at some point, people will simply put the math skills in to it to work it out manually and then that knowledge will slowly leak out. DPS meters just do it automatically.

 

Thing most people are forgetting is, no one is forcing anyone to play a way they don't want to play, you are free to find a clan or group of people who actually like a challenge and play against the status quo. A lot of player enjoy proving things can be done without following like sheep.

 

Just because you say you hate being told how to play, doesn't mean we have to play you want us to play, see how it works both ways with no possible way of roving who is wrong or right?

 

I think I understand enough lol The bosses that have the insane, almost insta kill unless you dodge correctly, or a team member uses a skill speced to freeze the entire team, and protect them, rather (or the kfm skill). Like the current Slashimi mechanic where fm are expected to have ice sheath speced. Only a lot more dangerous. I use fm because it's the class I know best, both builds. Why bother having support skills at all if you could just dps it up, and only ever attack attack attack, like there's not a team to work around, and play with?

 

This isn't "oh there's a right fire build, and a right ice build" because yes, those are things, but with the focus on dps meter it's "ice build sucks becuz it has this much less damage overall, let's all go fire." (which has it's own problems, with multiple fm in a party, which is...a  problem in pugs, and queuing)

 

That there are different builds, like ice fm vs fire fm, one has cc, and support skills, and has some sacrifices in damage in order to provide that support, or the cc that can be nice. And no, no one is holding a knife to your throat forcing you to play one way or another, but dps meters seriously make a pretty large amount of people lose their shit, and you know the game would lose out on aspects that make it insanely fun LIKE the different builds for a class, while still maintaining good dps, and keeping up with what you want.

 

There should be no problem with having a personal dps meter, without bringing other people's damage into play. The only reason you want want to see individual scores would be to stroke your own ego, or feel superior to another specific player, and it just comes down to that :Y

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Liverne   

Personally have no issues with DPS meters. I would love to have one as well to know how BAD my damage is against the same class with equal equipment. Rotation aside, it's more of ping differences.

 

Oh and here we have people say ping don't matter for some classes, lol. Get real. Ping makes a world of differences.

 

 


 

 

 

In any case, the only thing that will make me dislike dps meter are people with ego issues. "lol noob dps" "lol my dps higher" "lol git gud"

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Taemek   
1 minute ago, Telethia said:

I think I understand enough lol The bosses that have the insane, almost insta kill unless you dodge correctly, or a team member uses a skill speced to freeze the entire team, and protect them, rather (or the kfm skill). Like the current Slashimi mechanic where fm are expected to have ice sheath speced. Only a lot more dangerous. I use fm because it's the class I know best, both builds. Why bother having support skills at all if you could just dps it up, and only ever attack attack attack, like there's not a team to work around, and play with?

 

This isn't "oh there's a right fire build, and a right ice build" because yes, those are things, but with the focus on dps meter it's "ice build sucks becuz it has this much less damage overall, let's all go fire." (which has it's own problems, with multiple fm in a party, which is...a  problem in pugs, and queuing)

 

That there are different builds, like ice fm vs fire fm, one has cc, and support skills, and has some sacrifices in damage in order to provide that support, or the cc that can be nice. And no, no one is holding a knife to your throat forcing you to play one way or another, but dps meters seriously make a pretty large amount of people lose their shit, and you know the game would lose out on aspects that make it insanely fun LIKE the different builds for a class, while still maintaining good dps, and keeping up with what you want.

 

There should be no problem with having a personal dps meter, without bringing other people's damage into play. The only reason you want want to see individual scores would be to stroke your own ego, or feel superior to another specific player, and it just comes down to that :Y

 

Again, you are only interested in having people play how you see fit, see what the issue is here?

Edited by Taemek

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Telethia   
Just now, Taemek said:

 

Again, you are only interested in having people how you see fit, see what the issue is here?

I'm not even sure how you saw that from what I said, at all. Is your reading comprehension okay?

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Alison   

I would love to have it here.

DPS meters are so good to improve yourself or if you are in a group (in your clan or friends) it is nice to compare each other.

Then it comes to "I improve and next time rekt your dps."

Yes it tends into a dps race and I like the idea. :) Everyone in the group benefits.

 

FFXIV was my first MMO, playing it 2 years and the best example that gear<skill.

I have seen people (including myself as a monk) doing by far more dps with itemLvL 190 than others with 210

When I see other monks in dungeons with similar or better gear I always use DPS meters because I wanna out-dps them.

And it helped me alot improving myself. If another guy is better I check for his rotations and how he is using his skills.

Fighting striking dummies for 4-6 hours to get rotations burned into my head for the real fights.

 

Its a WIN-WIN. Its not for showing e-peens, if someone blames you for crap dps then you should improve instead of complaining. Ask him what you can do better. Ask people in your clan, watch videos ect..

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Grimoir   
45 minutes ago, Taemek said:

 

They do exist and you are expecting people to get enjoyment at the same level as you do.

 

For some people, min/maxing is fun. That is what they get enjoyment out of, just because you don't doesn't make it bad.

 

Then give them a dps meter that only shows their own dps and not the entire parties. then they can min/max all they want.

Sorry but i saw a lot of games turn to shiet because of such dps meters. It just fuels the toxic community, no matter how you put it. If someone would really find min / maxing as fun as you say they would calculate it all and make it work.

 

For pure individual use and visibility dps meter is ok, the moment it shows you performance of others, it basically turns the game to shit.

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fruitie   
28 minutes ago, KzE said:

 

You cant be kicked, so whats the problem?

Not yet, but it would be a solution for bots in dungeons. The thing is how do we discern the right balance? Ideally we should kick leechers and bots but when the community has shown to be judgemental twats, I have little doubt that it will be abused if it is entered into the game for low ap, or if we get this tool, low dps. As said there are a variety of reasons why someone may have lower dps, but they may be better at surviving or supporting the team/tanking. Maybe even the team is doing a shit job at controlling the boss and that person is constantly being grabbed. There will be a lot of people who won't use it as a guide, but will instead judge any slight weakness and replace you with someone who appears to meet their ideal expectations (even if they focus more on personal score over working as a team). The only reason people leave at the start of a dungeon after seeing any non perfect geared person is because they can't kick them. If they get the tools, they likely would do that even if that player is perfectly capable.

 

On the other hand we could never get a kick tool and then we potentially have to live with players and bots afking in dungeons because there's nothing preventing them from doing that. You can legally use multiple clients too to multiply your earning with no effort as long as you're not duplicating input.

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KzE   
34 minutes ago, fruitie said:

Not yet, but it would be a solution for bots in dungeons. The thing is how do we discern the right balance? Ideally we should kick leechers and bots but when the community has shown to be judgemental twats, I have little doubt that it will be abused if it is entered into the game for low ap, or if we get this tool, low dps. As said there are a variety of reasons why someone may have lower dps, but they may be better at surviving or supporting the team/tanking. Maybe even the team is doing a shit job at controlling the boss and that person is constantly being grabbed. There will be a lot of people who won't use it as a guide, but will instead judge any slight weakness and replace you with someone who appears to meet their ideal expectations (even if they focus more on personal score over working as a team). The only reason people leave at the start of a dungeon after seeing any non perfect geared person is because they can't kick them. If they get the tools, they likely would do that even if that player is perfectly capable.

 

On the other hand we could never get a kick tool and then we potentially have to live with players and bots afking in dungeons because there's nothing preventing them from doing that. You can legally use multiple clients too to multiply your earning with no effort as long as you're not duplicating input.

I dont have any bot/afk problem. 4/6 man i make own rooms with ap req, so bots/afk/dokumo wep abusers arent problem. For blue dungeons, just invite someone and duo it, if you cant solo.

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Eladriel   

In general MMO world DPS meter is usefull,for some games having a good DPS is a must for clearing dungeons. But for B&S DPS meter is not needed,the game depends too much on ping,true like any other online game but so far only B&S has such server instability not to mention random FPS drop no matter how good your PC is.

 

Clearing dungeon mostly depends on your strategy and how good you dodge enemy skills and timing yours,how good are you at playing your class. How high your AP is or how good your DPS is the lowest factor in clearing dungeons,iv cleared Naryu Lab many times with having profaine members in party,always worked out well,bosses take 1-2mins longer but overall smooth runs.

 

Highest problem are people who donz want to listen or dont know english,no matter whats ur dps is but if you dont have teamwork u will fail.

Edited by Eladriel

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Arohk   
1 hour ago, Liverne said:

Personally have no issues with DPS meters. I would love to have one as well to know how BAD my damage is against the same class with equal equipment. Rotation aside, it's more of ping differences.

 

Oh and here we have people say ping don't matter for some classes, lol. Get real. Ping makes a world of differences.

 

 


 

 

 

In any case, the only thing that will make me dislike dps meter are people with ego issues. "lol noob dps" "lol my dps higher" "lol git gud"

 

are they both button mashing or is the left player just holding down the button?

 

it looks like the left player uses "rapid fire" and the right player is tapping as fast as he can.

Edited by Arohk

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MGT   

The video is pure ping nothing more, you can only attack so fast with crap ping no matter HOW fast you spam. And with all the 440+ AP 4/(6) mans I see now just a matter of time till you see (x) % or gtfo.

 

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Hongmoon   

That's why mushin ranking would've been more useful. You're expected to cc and dps there at the same time. DPS meters won't do anything. If no one cc the boss, then even if you have the highest dps in the group, your group as a whole would be a lot slower than another group.

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Lurkios   

Screw DPS meters, that shit is the last thing we need.

 

Another tool F2P elitist pricks can use to blame the parties failure on everything but their utter lack of skill.

Another reason to spec out of heal, spec out of CC... raw dps and raw dps only, much to the detriment of the party - but hell, the numbers look good. Why aren't you pulling your weight tank? Smn?

 

Bringing DPS meters to NA is a terrible idea for the same reason we cry for a kick option when other regions don't, and the same reason we feel we need to vote on loot option changes though the issue never came up before.

 

"Lab 400AP+" anyone?

Edited by Lurkios

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Taemek   
23 minutes ago, Lurkios said:

Screw DPS meters, that shit is the last thing we need.

 

Another tool F2P elitist pricks can use to blame the parties failure on everything but their utter lack of skill.

Another reason to spec out of heal, spec out of CC... raw dps and raw dps only, much to the detriment of the party - but hell, the numbers look good. Why aren't you pulling your weight tank? Smn?

 

Bringing DPS meters to NA is a terrible idea for the same reason we cry for a kick option when other regions don't, and the same region we feel we need to vote on loot option changes though the issue never came up before.

 

"Lab 400AP+" anyone?

 

Most people who know how to play, know that its not all about just DPS unless you severely out gear the content.

 

Only kids who want attention act like it is, kind of like your post stereotyping majority of the player base trying to force people to play the way  you want them to play, see how it works?

Edited by Taemek

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