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pingal1ty

Class Balance (PVE) Blade Dancer

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So basically and trying to resume it in short. Why would you want a BD in your party or dungeon runs?

 

FM outdps us really hard, plus they have Veil and ice flower to protect party at critical moments

SIN does have higher dps than BD

Destroyer does have higher dps than BD + better grab

BM can tank 

KFM can tank + gives amazing buff to party

Warlock its not a tank but still can block damage and that can be handy, plus the amazing buff to party

Summoner can tank,  heal, dps and it exceeds on all 3 roles without restrictions (this is retarded, but personal opinion)

 

So, why would people take BD over any of these?

 

I think the class deserves a pve buff and/or rework.

 

Currently BDs are using electric builds for anicanceling all time, or as much as possible,  the thing is, if we use flaming scourge then can't use guardian sanctuary, and if we use guardian sanctuary we loose a lot of dps. Same happens with stuns, if we use raid for double stun on bosses we loose the amazing 9 focus recovery when hitting from behind, and then our storm cleave (V) has a retarded condition to deal aditional damage (need to daze enemy) which means we have to spec our five point strike into daze (but not air combo) to do efficient damage AND it will not work with bosses because  it isn't a double daze.

 

Also the base stats on skills are inferior compared to other classes.

 

We tested at blackwyrm with good players (you can't say they are same skilled because 2 persons will be always diferent, but we can say this players are all really good ones) and its not normal that FM and Summoner gets near 50pp while BD only 30. With the plus that we BDs are melee while they are ranged having easier time than us and almost  doubling our dps, this is so unbalanced.

 

I didn't  play 50 content, but what I heard from players that already played that..... BD is not getting any better at 50.

 

NCSoft please, give some love to classes that really in need and stop buffing FM and Summoner because that's just out of context

Edited by pingal1ty

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That's not what I heard, and honestly seeing that they nerfed us BD at release patch because the anicancel combo was like killing a player in arena too fast I don't think they going to go back in this change.

 

Its more like I am suggesting to add some new trees that are only usefull for pve.

 

But anyway, out of curiosity @Cordon can you explain that OP buff on level50 ?

 

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Grimoir   

Ranged classes will always have it easier vs melee. thats why melee requires more skill to play.

And Blackwyrm is a horrible example to make a comparison.

 

FM is a burst class, its pretty obvious it will outdps a bd.

Same with summoner.

 

Each class can pull its own weight and like you said, you didnt play 50 content. How about you remake the topic after 50 comes and you try it?

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Cordon   

hongmoon skills has a good dmg man a really good dmg anyway it's not only for BD but for all less WL

Edited by Cordon

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Cordon   

@pingal1ty take a look and dont be like "I hit more then 8k now lmao" you wont hit 8k a lv 51 boss with 480 AP.

I know alot of guys that don't kill yeti solo.

 

 

 

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Well, out of all the hate against 1 class  or another..... you guys should admit that something is wrong, specially with FM.

 

has 3 defensive skills that deny any damage (doesn't matter if you hit them a thousand times, while they are freeze they ignore any damage), one of this things heals them for 30 % health, and I saw base damage on skills and some has like 8-9k damage. Its just absurd.

 

On the other hand, BD, has a resist 5 attacks or 5 second on Z ,You can use dual strke (V) for iframe aswell but between casts there is a small gap where you can get hit, and it happens oftenly if you are unlucky you'll take damage either pve or pvp while using it. And all of this being a melee class that is always exposed to dangerous aoe attacks. As example see Terrors. Being melee  there is a pain, then think about any boss in the game, what is easier to kite it running in circles with an FM while dpsing or playing it as melee having to use wisely all your skills to deal damage while avoiding all damages he does? Come on guys, seriously.... yet people like @Kyokushinkai wants to make us believe ranged is as hard as melee? Guess you are joking.

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Cordon   

any class has it's weakpoints man.

 

talking about DPS this guys plays better... take another look 

 

by Base dmg do you mean the stats shown on this skill info?

that is affected by your wep?

 

 

Edited by Cordon

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 @Cordon saw the video, nice one, but why you say I should hit 8k now? I've 458AP at the moment, max is 470, and I hit for like 5-6k, With warlock or KFM buff I hit slightly more, like 6-7k. This dude has HM level10 and probably level50. If points are like now, he should be having 12 more skillpoints than us.

 

The take flight 20k dmg was good tho, but I don't believe he crits that way much often. Anyways, if we compare it to any other class at same level (50 + 10) probably all of them outdps the BD. 

 

My friends says they hit with warlocks and FMs like 20-25k o_O. Something is wrong, imho.

 

EDIT : @Cordon, by base dmg I mean on every skill you use it has a base dmg. For example us BDs has on our "C" something like 2200-2600 + another 2400-2800 aditional damage if enemy is knockdown. This damage you can see when you press "K" and select the skill. Its affected by your AP, so the numbers I am showing you are mine with 458AP. 

 

As  an Example, a guildy FM with similar gear as mine (near to top) show me his legendary skill (sorry don't remember name) he has base damage 8-9k

Edited by pingal1ty

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Cordon   

My main is a WL I was playing an AS before it and I hit 8k~10k with both at 350 AP but AS has almost DPS as SUM and FM ( if low ping ) and WL is a class that is focus on lv50 content, kind OP now but in silverfrost it's like medium dps with some support.

FM/SUM are the very Best DPS in the game man try to dont compare DB can do alot of dmg and yet has alot of def and skills that makes you imune.

bns is a game that there is no Full support or full tank class by that means that Every class need to tank and need to dps some can have more DEF some have more DPS but everyone has the weak point/strong point.

 

about the video with legendary weapons you can take over 600 AP.

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Personally, I have never heard any complaints about my DPS nor do I feel we're lacking. If you feel you're DPS lacking, perhaps you should experiment with different builds and consider what works better for your play style and not just what other BDs are using.

 

Personally, I don't use electric focus, Storm Cleave, or Raid (except in certain situations like on some Mushin floors). I prefer using Wind Focus with Multislash/Rolling Thunder.

 

Even if there's a Destroyer, PT's are usually happy to have more than one grab and also another member who can double CC bosses by themselves. My only complaint is that they have yet to fix that stupid hit box issue that happens sometimes when BD grabs.

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Well Shinsetsu I guess you didn't get the point on this thread, BD is kind of inferior right now  because the only thing you can do for the party is grab, that's all.

 

Before they nerfed it, you could give a 1 hit resist to your party members, now it is only a useless movement speed buff which is usefull for.... absolutely nothing. Maybe mass pvp, but, really who does use that? 

 

And about the builds, I'm sure for now electric is the way to go as BD, I tried multislash with wind build but it really doesn't fit me and I feel like there is even less dps unless you are for example clearing a lot of mobs at the same time.

 

And about the grab thing, it also happened to me the hitbox thing when destroyer was grabbing so basically that bug happens with them aswell (unless they fix it, which I highly doubt  if you still complaining about it).

 

Anyways back to topic, I think BD is right now the underdog class if we are talking pve wise. If we talk PvP wise, its still summoner everywhere and FM also being really strong and the fact that nobody complained on your DPS as BD doesn't mean that there are other classes that are far way better than us BDs on that, not only that, they also provide something more to party like tanking or a strong support (1 grab is not that helpfull you know)

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Chikotan   

BDs actually do a lot of damage right now, if you wear a threat bracelet you can generally hold aggro against equally geared FMs. It sounds crazy but there are plenty of BDs out there tanking 4-man dungeons.

 

And at 50 we can spec maelstrom to protect the party for 3 sec. It's not great but at least it's something.

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Well i don't use electric focus and thus no storm cleave(only use in Tower) and yet i tank 70% of the dungeons myself.
Classes that can take aggro from me are only Bm/kfm using aggro skills and FM(well sick burn build damage),no destro can even come close to the dps of a bd(you can argue all you want but i never seen any of them hold aggro even with slightly better gear)
The only thing i wish is that stupid storm cleave draw stance reset fix in tower(i don't know why it happens i have full focus and Lightning surge still active and yet it resets sometimes)
In conclusion i think we are in a good spot as a melee right now,it could be better ofc but not that bad as the OP describes.

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13 hours ago, pingal1ty said:

Well Shinsetsu I guess you didn't get the point on this thread, BD is kind of inferior right now  because the only thing you can do for the party is grab, that's all.

 

 fact that nobody complained on your DPS as BD doesn't mean that there are other classes that are far way better than us BDs on that, not only that, they also provide something more to party like tanking or a strong support (1 grab is not that helpfull you know)

 

Just because I don't agree with your assessment doesn't mean I don't get the point of this thread. You think Blade Dancer's DPS is far below other classes, and I disagree. Perhaps, given equal gear and skill, Blade Dancer has the least damage output in pure DPS, but saying other classes are "far better" is an exaggeration. Our DPS isn't so far below that it would make any huge difference in dungeons.

 

Also, "grab is not that helpful"? I disagree on this too. Not just grab, but the ability to double CC bosses on your own helps a lot in party survivability and DPS output.

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Ok my bad I didn't explain good enough I guess, there we go :

 

grab is kind of free, just need 2 points on it (3 if you want to reduce defense)

 

But what you say about double CC.....

 

If you knockdown the enemy is for using your lightning draw inmediately, if you grab it you are loosing dps for yourself, but ok party can do that for you I guess, but still you have to choose to use  that oportunity for your only burst skill you have or either be helpful to party

 

Using rush/raid, you can double CC with raid (stun) and yet grab again, tho you will loose the 9 chi recovery from behind which comes really handy

 

And last but not least, Storm Cleave offers additional damage if enemy is dazed, but it happens our Five point strike doesn't double daze, so its only usefull against mobs (a normal mob doesn't really need that burst tbh) and only situation I found so far usefull is Junghado and Mushin, maybe you can also make it usefull if you solo BR to get rid of those elite mobs that have huge hp pool, but thats all, against a boss its useless and most of the time you wont be using daze but iframe to avoid some damage.

 

And I am not saying that you have to agree with me, you can disagree, that is OK, but come with real facts then because when I play with players that have similar skills as mine I don't have aggro, any other class outdps me, I'm not saying BD is uterly useless, I am saying that based on my own experience and my own facts it should be a bit better to make a choice. Everybody I know playing this game as BD is because either he loves the class (ie that's me!) or because feels good for pvp.

 

But honestly, in guild (and our guild is pretty hardcore, honestly, first western BW kill during headstart as an example) has most Diamond players being either Summoners or FMs. There is only 1 BD that happens to be in Diamond, while the rest of ppl are Platinum and few high gold (mainly pve players), and I can tell you 100% there is no BD in guild that is able to sustain aggro for long time against rest of classes, which means that our dps is low compared to others and that is a fact, you can still disagree if you think on your own experience is not like that but I can also tell you when I run a dungeon with pugs I am the aggro holder as BD, but thats mainly because 1) I rush 2) I am overgearing almost everyone else 3) I do play hardcore and they do play casually.... and that's my friend not a way to measure dps and so on. Unfortunately we don't have the tools to measure dps but as I said, taking BW as a meter, FM and Summ just destroy everyone else, followed by SIN, then rest of classes and last of all there's the BD, it is supposed our class (BD) is not burst one, ok, but then as a DPS this class fails (understand for DPS someone who overtime is going to win you the damage race because as the DPS word states its meanning "damage per second" so  basically you can be bursty but overtime I will win because of doing a sustained damage)

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So what exactly is it that you want? You want a buff for BD? So people can complain that BD is OP, or so some other class becomes the "least DPS" and they can have a thread exactly like this one?

 

As I mentioned, I think the assessment that BD DPS is "far below" other classes is incorrect. Maybe other classes can out-DPS us, but not by that much and BD is somewhat support DPS anyway so who cares. If you feel your DPS is far below other classes, again, maybe you should experiment with different builds and find something better because my DPS is certainly not far below anyone.

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Aisuruu   

Taking ranged classes out of the picture because the game caters to them far too much, I'd say BD DPS is a solid middle-ground.

 

People seem to bash on them a little too much, but being a person who mains a PvE BD, I can say that people don't understand that we're an... Interesting class.

 

I've been the DPs for 4 mans. I've been the tank for 4 mans and Wyrm. We're a good all around class, and I don't understand the Dest vs BD debate cause some things they do better, others we do.

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