SinisterSin

Ncsoft, when you make it hard for players to earn ingame currency you promote bots and gold sellers

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Kazutoo   
17 hours ago, Emya said:

 

Since I started the game, my gold has yet to exceed the 15G mark (no kidding), and just sits on an average of a few tens of silvers to 2G daily, Reason being: I immediately buy MTS for upgrades as soon as I can afford them, aside from paying for the upgrade cost itself when I do upgrade (already at True Siren 10 and a mix of infernal and Awakened Siren 10 accessories). I also never bought nor sold soulstones and other crafting/ upgrade materials.

 

Still, I would have to disagree with the outlook above since one can easily earn more than 10G per day (provided you don't spend), just completing some dailies. That does not yet include income from crafting guilds. I also remember gaining 9G just by doing only 2 Naryu runs on a public party at cross server (the party had an AP and EXP requirement). I believe that at some point, I can gain that much gold as soon as I'm done upgrading my gears. Soon enough... all in due time.

 

19 hours ago, SinisterSin said:

The cost to upgrade your gear is astronomical and can easily cost you 20 -50 gold depending, and is going to go up here soon on end content to close to 200 gold to upgrade your gear.  In addition to continue your professions that costs money too which easily steals away your money very quickly and you can end up spending a good 20 gold or more just trying to craft items.  In addition it costs money to teleport to areas, it costs money to repair and so on.   It is really hard to see how many players can keep up with such in game "money sinks".   If you managed to save a 100 gold or more since the launch of this game then congratulations!  But most players find this to be very difficult and frustrating to do.  Your dailies are limited, and if your lucky you can get up to 8 gold a day if you have that kind of time.  Sure you can craft and grind the trade/auction house too, but even that costs money and can be very difficult to do.  All these things are possible, and I am not saying they aren't, but if you have to treat a game like a non-stop job then it is no longer enjoyable, and as I said before most people don't have that kind of time on their hands.  Lots of people have jobs and families, and real lives outside the digital world of an MMO.  This game in particular seems to set up and exacerbate the issues of gold sellers and bots.  Maybe Ncsoft needs to consider this and give players better ways of earning in game currency and have less of a money sink in some of these areas.

 

 

 

I have 150+ since I started, and no I didn't cheat, I just did dailies & crafting, it gives an insane amount of income, e.fleet dailies give total of 3g-ish, mushin tower 2.5g+ (depends on how far you get).

 

I can make lots of gold with crafting.

 

Faction dailies give soulstone 20-ish thats 4.8g.

 

And I didn't even mention 5% of the list.

There are tons of ways to make money, even for people who have to start with nothing.

 

Spend 1 hour on doing certain dailies, turn on some craftings in the meanwhile, and get yourself 10g =).

 

If you can't get above 10g, you are doing something wrong or just not using the resources that are available to you.

You DO NOT need any requirements.

Edited by Kazutoo

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Drunkie   

Gold is easy to make if you have the time. If you don't, not the game's fault either.

I hate that mentality of people who think the game should adapt to the casuals and not the casuals have to adapt to the game.

I understand, people work/study and a lot don't have the time to """"""grind"""""", but the sad truth is that this game is not for you (this sentence works for any korean mmo).

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On 13/3/2016 at 7:03 AM, TopDollar said:

Bro really? You think someone is cheating just because they have 100 gold? LOL. A normal 45 can get at least  10g -15g from dailies, more when they sell their crafting stuffs. So you can easily make over 100 gold within a week. You would make more sense if you think they are shady for earning 100g per day but saying someone is shady just because they have 100g is laughable lmaoo.

 

Here's a perspective from someone who has played this game ALOT over the past month. I mean 8-10 hours per day.

 

I usually do all the 40 available daily quests, and it lands me around 18.5g in total. I don't earn anything on crafting, as all my crafting is geared towards making moonwater transformation stones that I use in my own upgrades. Once I'm maxed out, maybe I can start selling.

 

To earn 18.5g, I do E. Fleet, Nightshade Harbor, Blackram Supply, Bloodshade Harbor, Naryu Labyrinth, Mushin's Tower (all floors), the 4 blue dungeons, daily faction quests, daily arena PVP quests, Skyhaven Stockade and Talus Engineer, and depending on whether I finish blackwyrm and the 10 player kills, I might do 1 or 2 more random quests that day.

 

As you can probably tell I have had a lot of time on my hands, and not much else to do. The OP was making the argument that people who do not have the amount of time that I do, to sink into a video game, should also be able to enjoy playing. It's clear that if you play one or two hours per day, it will take you years to reach end-level gear. I think a balance can be struck between these things, and I think NCSoft still has some way to go before they reach it.

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Shar   

If you have less time to play, then you'll progress slower, that's the rule in every game.

Why should someone who plays 1 hour

On 13/3/2016 at 6:57 AM, SinisterSin said:

Not everyone has time to sit for more than an hour or two at best playing a video game online.  Most other MMOs generally give a decent amount of quests that give actual in game currency and ways for people to farm currency so that they can do this in a short window of an hour or two.  This way their character isn't cash starved and can still enjoy the game without feeling forced to grind and play for hours non stop trying to obtain what is needed to progress or enjoy the games professions.

 

At the moment what I see is a cap on quests, and NPC vendors who give virtually nothing for trash items or unwanted (redundant) items.  Not everyone has the same opportunities as other players to hit certain bosses like the Terrors or the Wyrm dragon boss, (its difficult to assess when players will gather for these bosses in mass).

 

So all of this does Ncsoft is cause players to feel frustrated and most probably do end up cheating and buying in game gold just to keep up.  We are looking at close to a 200 gold increase here soon just to upgrade gear for endgame runs/raids and I honestly don't see how players can afford this without resorting to using a gold seller.

 

If people are frustrated because of the bots, well that is mostly because there is a demand for these bots, and gold sellers.   We wouldn't see the problems with bots and goldsellers if there wasn't a demand for them.

 

If you want these bots and gold sellers to go away, then I suggest implementing some other ways that players can earn in game currency that doesn't mean sinking more than an hour online each day.  Maybe up the vendor cash that a player gets for selling items they don't need or selling the coveting outfits that a player can't use.  Instead of giving a measly 10-15 silver for certain quests give 1 gold for those quests that are considered more time consuming and or difficult.  Give some currency in those boxes that we open from dungeons or from running things like E. Fleet or Bloodshade Harbor.

 

If you give players the ability to earn better currency amounts then we might see some of the bots and gold sellers die down a bit.  

 

By the way, when I hear a player say they have a 100 gold or more I can't help but wonder if they didn't cheat for that currency.

 

You know how prices work? If you increase the amount of gold in the market, prices will rise...sure, you'll be able to afford the static X gold upgrade the game forces on you, but then soulstones would be sold for like 1 gold each, poharan's perfume for 2 gold, blade master's *cricket*ing hongmoon book for 2k gold and so on.

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Areos   

Rofl, I make close to 30g a day. I got 3 lv 45 character with which I do the faction dailies + pvp dailies. Then I farm till 2000 beans on each character everyday, which will result in about 132 soulsontes a day. On the EU servers this is equal to about 34g. This is 34g for only faction + pvp dailies. Doing these dailies will cost me a bit more than 2 hours total. I could even make more money if i would craft the Moonwater Transformation stones, but this takes too long imo.

 

So when you say that 100g is a lot, then I'm not sure if you are doing anything in the game at all.

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Dray0s   
On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 5:57 AM, SinisterSin said:

Not everyone has time to sit for more than an hour or two at best playing a video game online.  Most other MMOs generally give a decent amount of quests that give actual in game currency and ways for people to farm currency so that they can do this in a short window of an hour or two.  This way their character isn't cash starved and can still enjoy the game without feeling forced to grind and play for hours non stop trying to obtain what is needed to progress or enjoy the games professions.

 

At the moment what I see is a cap on quests, and NPC vendors who give virtually nothing for trash items or unwanted (redundant) items.  Not everyone has the same opportunities as other players to hit certain bosses like the Terrors or the Wyrm dragon boss, (its difficult to assess when players will gather for these bosses in mass).

 

So all of this does Ncsoft is cause players to feel frustrated and most probably do end up cheating and buying in game gold just to keep up.  We are looking at close to a 200 gold increase here soon just to upgrade gear for endgame runs/raids and I honestly don't see how players can afford this without resorting to using a gold seller.

 

If people are frustrated because of the bots, well that is mostly because there is a demand for these bots, and gold sellers.   We wouldn't see the problems with bots and goldsellers if there wasn't a demand for them.

 

If you want these bots and gold sellers to go away, then I suggest implementing some other ways that players can earn in game currency that doesn't mean sinking more than an hour online each day.  Maybe up the vendor cash that a player gets for selling items they don't need or selling the coveting outfits that a player can't use.  Instead of giving a measly 10-15 silver for certain quests give 1 gold for those quests that are considered more time consuming and or difficult.  Give some currency in those boxes that we open from dungeons or from running things like E. Fleet or Bloodshade Harbor.

 

If you give players the ability to earn better currency amounts then we might see some of the bots and gold sellers die down a bit.  

 

By the way, when I hear a player say they have a 100 gold or more I can't help but wonder if they didn't cheat for that currency.

 

NCsoft Sell gold themselves through Currency Market, it still has goldsellers, Easing the Gold grind will simply increase the Prices of everything in the game, which would cause the exact same effects as currently earning less gold, the economy would raise if the gold income raised, therefore would make 0 difference.

 

if u think people will start making 300g a Day instead of 30g a Day and 50 Soulstones will remain at 25g ur wrong, they'd raise to 250g. which would cause u to farm 10x the amount of gold therefore Still replicating the Exact same gold grinds that are happening right now, u are simply gfoing to look cooler with over 100k even tho in practice its worth nothing. u decrease the value of something increasing its income, ur idea would physically mess the economy up completely. u can pour vast amounts of gold into a game suddenly and expect this would fix anything, cause if anything u'll be gold farming for LONGER to farm items that are considered cheap today.

 

Every game has gold sellers, every game has bots, every player hates them, but they are there, they offer competitive rates with companies etc etc on gold prices to attract people to paying their money towards them. the only way to get rid of bots, is simply the playerbase works together and NOT buy from them..

Edited by Dray0s

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Dray0s   
Just now, AuroraNox said:

I agree. Clearly the solution is not to increase the flow of gold, but if we use our heads just a little I'm sure we can come up with something that works. How about this? Reduce the cost of upgrades? As in, you need less soulstones/tears/transformation stones, etc, etc? Or increase the drop rate of those materials, so supply goes up?

 

This is economics 101, price is based on supply and demand. NCSoft controls the supply by limiting how many mats we can get, and control the demand by setting the requirements for upgrades as high as they do. They're artificially creating a situation where supply does not meet demand and thus you get high prices. Increase supply and/or reduce demand and prices will become reasonable.

 

Yes a Reduction in grind would decrease gold requirements, but tbh... do we really want to make the game EASIER because a few cheat?..

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51 minutes ago, Dray0s said:

 

NCsoft Sell gold themselves through Currency Market, it still has goldsellers, Easing the Gold grind will simply increase the Prices of everything in the game, which would cause the exact same effects as currently earning less gold, the economy would raise if the gold income raised, therefore would make 0 difference.

 

I agree. Clearly the solution is not to increase the flow of gold, but if we use our heads just a little I'm sure we can come up with something that works. How about this? Reduce the cost of upgrades? As in, you need less soulstones/tears/transformation stones, etc, etc? Or increase the drop rate of those materials, so supply goes up?

 

This is economics 101, price is based on supply and demand. NCSoft controls the supply by limiting how many mats we can get, and control the demand by setting the requirements for upgrades as high as they do. They're artificially creating a situation where supply does not meet demand and thus you get high prices. Increase supply and/or reduce demand and prices will become reasonable.

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1 minute ago, Dray0s said:

 

Yes a Reduction in grind would decrease gold requirements, but tbh... do we really want to make the game EASIER because a few cheat?..

 

If it was just 'a few cheaters' we wouldn't be talking about this. I suspect the entire economy in this game is warped because of gold sellers. When people buy hundreds of gold, the value of gold goes down and prices consequently go up. Every time someone buys gold from a gold seller, they're effectively raising prices of items on the market. I suspect that if the crafting material supply and demand was more reasonable, gold sellers would sell less gold, and thus we would have less bots and cheaters in this game.

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Drunkie   

I don't think gold sellers sell any gold tho, at least most don't.

They steal your accound and credit card info.

 

edit:

Ok, if the requirement for upgrades drop enough to satisfy the people who play for like 2h a day, how do you think people with more time to play would feel like if someone who plays for 1~2h a day gets gear at the same rate as they do? It makes no sense, the more time you invest on it, the further ahead you will be from those who spend less time playing, that's how it should be.

 

ps: english not first language, excuse any mistakes pls kthx

Edited by Drunkie

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Rief   

Increasing the flow of gold blindly won't reduce bot. 

 

The game need method/feature of obtaining gold that bots cannot access, increase the gold flow at that feature.

 

The problem is I did not see any part of the game where the bot cannot grind.

 

World Bosses = Bot farm it.

Arena = Bot Farm it too.

Dungeon = Similar.

Crafting = Same.

PVP = ^.

 

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Taemek   
2 hours ago, AuroraNox said:

 

Here's a perspective from someone who has played this game ALOT over the past month. I mean 8-10 hours per day.

 

I usually do all the 40 available daily quests, and it lands me around 18.5g in total. I don't earn anything on crafting, as all my crafting is geared towards making moonwater transformation stones that I use in my own upgrades. Once I'm maxed out, maybe I can start selling.

 

To earn 18.5g, I do E. Fleet, Nightshade Harbor, Blackram Supply, Bloodshade Harbor, Naryu Labyrinth, Mushin's Tower (all floors), the 4 blue dungeons, daily faction quests, daily arena PVP quests, Skyhaven Stockade and Talus Engineer, and depending on whether I finish blackwyrm and the 10 player kills, I might do 1 or 2 more random quests that day.

 

As you can probably tell I have had a lot of time on my hands, and not much else to do. The OP was making the argument that people who do not have the amount of time that I do, to sink into a video game, should also be able to enjoy playing. It's clear that if you play one or two hours per day, it will take you years to reach end-level gear. I think a balance can be struck between these things, and I think NCSoft still has some way to go before they reach it.

 

Please stop with the silver spoon bs.

 

Join a clan that actively helps peoples by pooling resources if you don't have time.

 

The game isn't meant to be a solo experience. Stop being anti-social and join people.

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Balefire   

E. Fleet + Nightshade + Supply Chain + Bloodshade = right at 10 gold. Takes a couple hours at most. If that isnt enough to consider decent money for casual play then you arent looking for a reasonable return on your time. You are looking for high reward with no effort. 

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3 hours ago, AuroraNox said:

 

Here's a perspective from someone who has played this game ALOT over the past month. I mean 8-10 hours per day.

 

I usually do all the 40 available daily quests, and it lands me around 18.5g in total. I don't earn anything on crafting, as all my crafting is geared towards making moonwater transformation stones that I use in my own upgrades. Once I'm maxed out, maybe I can start selling.

 

To earn 18.5g, I do E. Fleet, Nightshade Harbor, Blackram Supply, Bloodshade Harbor, Naryu Labyrinth, Mushin's Tower (all floors), the 4 blue dungeons, daily faction quests, daily arena PVP quests, Skyhaven Stockade and Talus Engineer, and depending on whether I finish blackwyrm and the 10 player kills, I might do 1 or 2 more random quests that day.

 

As you can probably tell I have had a lot of time on my hands, and not much else to do. The OP was making the argument that people who do not have the amount of time that I do, to sink into a video game, should also be able to enjoy playing. It's clear that if you play one or two hours per day, it will take you years to reach end-level gear. I think a balance can be struck between these things, and I think NCSoft still has some way to go before they reach it.

I have a casual friend who started about a week after the game was released. She only plays a little bit like around 1 -  2 hours per day and somedays she doesn't even go on. My friend has work, relationship, and school, all 3 things to worry about and she still managed to get awaken siren dagger max. siren belt, siren bracelet, mix of infernal and awaken siren accessories. While these gears are by no means awesome, its still good for someone thats casual so if op started at around the same time than he or she shouldn't be complaining.

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