Masqava

Sins are the most IMBALANCED class right now.

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Masqava   

I'm not saying sins are overpowered, no, I know they have problems.

 

Here's the big problem with sin:

 

They either shit on a class to the point it's not funny anymore or get shit on by a class to the point.

 

Classes sin absolutely dumpsters:

Destroyer: As someone that frequently plays destroyer myself, this is BY FAR the most unfun matchup I ever get to play. I spend the whole game chasing, having shit thrown at me while not having any reliable tools to get the sin. ''Spin them out of stealth'' before you even get to spin they're already out of range and they get a speed boost.

KFM: The same for destroyer, they just get poked down till the end of the match. Sins can easily get behind them so their counter isn't that effective. Their dashes are mostly targeted and they can't really get in range for the evasion procs.

 

 

Classes sin gets dumpstered by:

Summoner: Sin can't deal proper damage to summoner, they lack the burst and the cat stops their combo's

Warlock: Long range ways to poke them out of stealth, thrall can protect them and lock the sin up.

FM: Can 1 the warlock, slow them permanently, their barrier keeps them safe from poke, they got a lot of mobility and defensive tools to match the assassin.

 

I'm honestly not sure where to place Blade Dancer & Blade Master, but I feel like assassin has too many ''strong counter'' matchups, against them or for them.

 

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Valiant   
51 minutes ago, Masqava said:

 

Classes sin absolutely dumpsters:

Destroyer: As someone that frequently plays destroyer myself, this is BY FAR the most unfun matchup I ever get to play. I spend the whole game chasing, having shit thrown at me while not having any reliable tools to get the sin. ''Spin them out of stealth'' before you even get to spin they're already out of range and they get a speed boost.

 

 

^

That how I feel when I go against Assassin, Just gave up from running after them.

All they do just stun me, Light rod, Hide again, repeat if I try to catch them decoy or spam their shitty lotus of escape or just freeze bomb me -.-

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Avalyn   

If you think destroyer/KFM gets dumpstered by assassin then I have no idea what BM is supposed to be.

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I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

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15 minutes ago, Avalyn said:

If you think destroyer/KFM gets dumpstered by assassin then I have no idea what BM is supposed to be.

 

The dumpster.

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Masqava   
57 minutes ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

 

Did you even read the thread?

I said they aren't overpowered.

 

I said they have either shitty matchups or great matchups.

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Purestic   
2 hours ago, Masqava said:

I'm not saying sins are overpowered, no, I know they have problems.

 

Here's the big problem with sin:

 

They either shit on a class to the point it's not funny anymore or get shit on by a class to the point.

 

Classes sin absolutely dumpsters:

Destroyer: As someone that frequently plays destroyer myself, this is BY FAR the most unfun matchup I ever get to play. I spend the whole game chasing, having shit thrown at me while not having any reliable tools to get the sin. ''Spin them out of stealth'' before you even get to spin they're already out of range and they get a speed boost.

KFM: The same for destroyer, they just get poked down till the end of the match. Sins can easily get behind them so their counter isn't that effective. Their dashes are mostly targeted and they can't really get in range for the evasion procs.

 

 

Classes sin gets dumpstered by:

Summoner: Sin can't deal proper damage to summoner, they lack the burst and the cat stops their combo's

Warlock: Long range ways to poke them out of stealth, thrall can protect them and lock the sin up.

FM: Can 1 the warlock, slow them permanently, their barrier keeps them safe from poke, they got a lot of mobility and defensive tools to match the assassin.

 

I'm honestly not sure where to place Blade Dancer & Blade Master, but I feel like assassin has too many ''strong counter'' matchups, against them or for them.

 

I appreciate that you didn't say Sins are OP. I think the same. Players need to learn to play vs. Sins, the matchup is different than every other class. If you played a lot vs. Destroyer/BM, you kinda know what to do against BD. If you played a lot vs. Summoner and FM, you kinda know how to play vs. WL. But there's not that much you can compare Sins to and the mechanics are pretty unique, so that might be a challenge to many players. Atleast when it comes to midtier Arena. I think that Sins lose a lot of effectiveness the higher it gets, to be honest. Every class there is has a good chance of winning once they know what to do and how to position themselves. It's a bit like a magic trick, once you know how it works it loses it's power.

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3 hours ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

Agree,dude like fully totally agree QQ Peopel cry about sins and its all about get our tab and it is done, not liek blade dancers, summoners, fm or even destroyers... or even kfm that after our tab stun locks from 100 to 0

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1 hour ago, Purestic said:

If you played a lot vs. Destroyer/BM, you kinda know what to do against BD

 

Hell no, those BD things are out of this world and yes i'm a BD hater and haters will hate etc.

 

So sins can be annoying but you have to use your brain to be a good sin. Just try to remember how easy it is to beat a bad sin unlike those lolli daaa daa (ok i'll be polite) BDs spinning around, using multi-resist Cds while wagging their shhhh tail (yes you can see them wagging their tails if you enable physics), and on top of that i have to deal with their noisy little voices "shaw shaw shaw, niaaaa, shaw, nia haouu"... what a headache!!

 

i'm out, this game is driving me crazy

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Purestic   
21 minutes ago, FinJen Shy said:

Hell no, those BD things are out of this world and yes i'm a BD hater and haters will hate etc.

 

I'm just saying that the mechanics are alike, Sins don't really have these similiarities. I could see newer players being overwhelmed by this, but maybe I'm wrong.

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PKaBoo   

lol...

 

I have kfm and when I go to arena vs a sin it's always same sh*t

I use my frosty shield when they blind me so none of their tarded moves affects me

I stunlock em when they try get me ...

I watch out for their "decoy" move so I don't throw em back to stealth...

very few sins get to win vs me since most their moves are pretty predictable... 

I sometimes even stunlock em if they f*** up their combo lol pretty much lower their hp from either full to 0 ... or if they somehow save themselves and goes back to stealth .. but the results remain same - they REALLY EASY for my kfm >_> !

 

my old main used to be a sin so I know what classes are most fun to go vs and what classes are annoyin af for a sin.

they're NOT unbalanced - you just need practice more vs certain classes.

that simple.

 

and not all players does same combos ... some uses combos that you don't "expect" them to do and they surprise you.

you should just practice more.

 

to me the most annoying classes in arena are destroyers blade dancers and now also warlocks -.-
sure some summoners as well..

in fact I'm not even sure on the "top 5 most annoying classes" in arena if to put warlock first or the summoner <.<

my biggest frustration vs warlocks is they lock my defensive skills and I can't use them for a few sec which most the time f*** me up real good and it's game over right there.

summoners is pertty much depends on how mobile are you and if you catch the lil bugger and throw em into "stunlocks" ALONG WITH THEIR !@#$% CAT ! then you can actually win...

blade dancer..... are like.... wow ._. they're seriously my most hated class right now... don't think it will EVER change coz their spin is cancer -.-

they move so fast... they tiny... they really knows how to humiliate a player in the arena NO MATTER HOW GOOD PvPers THEY ARE >_< !!!

 

I should start spar with my friend since he's a blade dancer and a really good 1 in pvp.

 

but back to the post's subject...

sin has some weaknesses vs certain classes as they are stronger on other classes

just like any other classes has a certain class or 2 (or sometimes more of you really horrible at pvp lol) they just suck vs ..

you just need practice more, either spar with friends or ask for spar on the chat vs classes you find yourself weak against.

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20 minutes ago, Purestic said:

 

I'm just saying that the mechanics are alike, Sins don't really have these similiarities. I could see newer players being overwhelmed by this, but maybe I'm wrong.

Ok, i see, thanks for explaining. I agree about the spinning mechanics that BDs share with destro for example and the draw stance thing that they share with BM, but BDs still have much more tools to outplay other classes. Like the only way i found to catch them off guard is to knock them down and go for a stun, but they always have something to get out of a KD (F, 1, 2, tab), on top of that, there is a bug that makes the ground-counter work even on stun abilities that pierces defense!! so i have to deal with the multi-resist abilities of the BD and the game "bugs".

 

Anyway, i'm sorry, the topic is about Sins and i'm hating on BDs but i can't stand them anymore :p

I'm out for real this time, have fun guys

 

 

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Valiant   
5 hours ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

And stilll Assassin able to *cricket* the hell shit of destroyer, The first ranked Assassin in EU when I went against him with my destroyer.

I and I *cricket*ing mean it he just spend the 2 rounds, Hide and poke with light rod before freeze bomb me or run away to corner to put lotus escape -.-

 

So maybe it weak, But it *cricket*ing annoying that keep hide and poke till win

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Teffy   

I'm FM and when I get one of those that throw bombs and shurikanes 3 minutes and hide in the corners,I really want to kill something.

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13 hours ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

I guess the "weak" class is always the one you play yourself eh?
Assassins are super strong in PvP and usually are in most mmorpgs.

Reason beeing they can set the pace for the fight and can set up their attack due to stealth. I usally play them myself just for that reason.

A good assassin in this game can win over any melee class easily. Just stay in stealth and attack from range, after combo, go back to stealth in range and repeat.

Most melee classes have no ranged skills to get to the other side of the field quickly and very limited ways to get assassins out of stealth.

Despite the myth that BDs can "spin" all the time, they cant. Its costs a huge chunk of focus, unless your an idiot that keeps hitting them WHILE they spin.

I say the same thing i say to my friend that plays an assassin, dont fight BDs and Destroyers in melee.

 

 

2- Destroyer unles they animation cancel exploit.

3- Blade Master

4- Kunfu master

5-Blade Dancer

6- Warlock

7- Force Master

8-Assassin

9- Summoner

Edited by 900834_1452550662

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11 hours ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

The sin is not a weak class, i have a lv 45 hm1 sin myself and i can tell you that its not weak, you just got to know how to play it, even i struggle with it alot as im use to maining FM maybe try searching some videos about there combos and learn some tricks, yea you have a point, the destroyers shit on sins soo badly everytime i get near them when invis they just spin me out of it. and number 6 is force master? no, yeah it can deal alot of dmg but if your not stupid enough to let them freeze you and go behind you, you will be fine... they do not deserve the no6 spot tho i think destroyer does tbh. then no5 should be warlock then it should be FM...

Edited by ChiisaiRyuu

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Valiant   
2 hours ago, ChiisaiRyuu said:

The sin is not a weak class, i have a lv 45 hm1 sin myself and i can tell you that its not weak, you just got to know how to play it, even i struggle with it alot as im use to maining FM maybe try searching some videos about there combos and learn some tricks, yea you have a point, the destroyers shit on sins soo badly everytime i get near them when invis they just spin me out of it. and number 6 is force master? no, yeah it can deal alot of dmg but if your not stupid enough to let them freeze you and go behind you, you will be fine... they do not deserve the no6 spot tho i think destroyer does tbh. then no5 should be warlock then it should be FM...

You are crying from destroyer as assassin ?

I'm sure you don't play right, Because no one get into hide and go near destroyer while it spin lmao

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Phorni   
16 hours ago, Onsterion said:

I think you have to learn how to deal with asassins.

 

Weak classes to strong classesl list:

 

1- Blade master

2- Assassin

3- Kunfu master

4- Destroyer

5- Warlock

6- Force Master

8- Summoner

9- Blad cancers

 

 

So assassin class is the second weak class in blade and soul.

OK u try and kill a pve sin first: 3 

 

Start = smoke bomb invis> throws toxic grenade> run away from u> puts flower down at a corner > runs to the other side of the map > u chase, tp to flower and repeat / u don't chase wait till time out = free win by dmg: 3

 

Most balanced ever XD I've been saying this when people we're complaining about sums being imba I told them they are playing sins wrong if they only wanna win XD 

 

Just stealth toxic bomb run away till toxic bomb is off cd and remember unless if it's a ranged class don't bother getting close to the guy, like stay 12m minimum away from them and as u run faster I would like to ask how does any other class beside another sin can possibly even attack this sin <3

 

Mind u toxic bomb doesn't break stealth, also the blur for invis units only shows within 8m range hence stay 12m away 

Edited by Phorni

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D4ve   
18 hours ago, Masqava said:

I'm not saying sins are overpowered, no, I know they have problems.

 

Here's the big problem with sin:

 

They either shit on a class to the point it's not funny anymore or get shit on by a class to the point.

 

Classes sin absolutely dumpsters:

Destroyer: As someone that frequently plays destroyer myself, this is BY FAR the most unfun matchup I ever get to play. I spend the whole game chasing, having shit thrown at me while not having any reliable tools to get the sin. ''Spin them out of stealth'' before you even get to spin they're already out of range and they get a speed boost.

KFM: The same for destroyer, they just get poked down till the end of the match. Sins can easily get behind them so their counter isn't that effective. Their dashes are mostly targeted and they can't really get in range for the evasion procs.

 

 

Classes sin gets dumpstered by:

Summoner: Sin can't deal proper damage to summoner, they lack the burst and the cat stops their combo's

Warlock: Long range ways to poke them out of stealth, thrall can protect them and lock the sin up.

FM: Can 1 the warlock, slow them permanently, their barrier keeps them safe from poke, they got a lot of mobility and defensive tools to match the assassin.

 

I'm honestly not sure where to place Blade Dancer & Blade Master, but I feel like assassin has too many ''strong counter'' matchups, against them or for them.

 

I kind of agree with you,but honestly this  isn't the way to do balance in a game,it's just plain frustrating.You should see my face turn furious when i see  i have to fight summoners 3 times straight,praying it's a sleeping one.Rock paper scissors dominate everything,and who has less counters just climbs easier(summoner cough cough),About blade dancer and master bd has virtually no counter,bm is countered by everything except fm and maybe destro.That's pretty much it.Then personally as bm i didn't find too many problems against wl,seems kinda even.Then thinking again i must say hard counters on bm are sum,sin,bd,the rest is KINDA even.A strong KINDA here,cause one way or another you just need to be far better than your opponent and literally read him to do an acceptable job.Side note:i used to play assassin as first character,only to get annoyed by the playstyle.Now i never did what i'm about to write,BUT,really,you can just run around being totally untouchable and win with stupid poison,with flowers teleporting you to the other side of the world,and lame ice grenade.Sadly at plat levels most sins are like that,and it's really really REALLY disgusting.

Edited by D4ve

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Phorni   
1 hour ago, D4ve said:

I kind of agree with you,but honestly this  isn't the way to do balance in a game,it's just plain frustrating.You should see my face turn furious when i see  i have to fight summoners 3 times straight,praying it's a sleeping one.Rock paper scissors dominate everything,and who has less counters just climbs easier(summoner cough cough),About blade dancer and master bd has virtually no counter,bm is countered by everything except fm and maybe destro.That's pretty much it.Then personally as bm i didn't find too many problems against wl,seems kinda even.Then thinking again i must say hard counters on bm are sum,sin,bd,the rest is KINDA even.A strong KINDA here,cause one way or another you just need to be far better than your opponent and literally read him to do an acceptable job.Side note:i used to play assassin as first character,only to get annoyed by the playstyle.Now i never did what i'm about to write,BUT,really,you can just run around being totally untouchable and win with stupid poison,with flowers teleporting you to the other side of the world,and lame ice grenade.Sadly at plat levels most sins are like that,and it's really really REALLY disgusting.

First up bm deserves a buff as it currently is but as ppl in Korea say it's op in 50 patch idk then...

 

Another thing is u have to look at it on a dif perspective... sins are disgusting... just before, people kept trying to play it like a warrior...  I've already said it before wl patch... if ur sin loses to anything but sin, and u only wanna win rather than improving ur skills... then u must be playing it wrong XD even now a lot of sins don't play that play style... saw on multiple streams where diamond sins get beaten by gold sins doing this lol... it's like what else do u need for sins XD 

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Vynnx   

Lols.. Sins are pose to be played with Decoy and Straw Doll.. for those who are trigger happy, you insta loose haha.

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Sammich   
On 3/12/2016 at 6:25 PM, Purestic said:

I appreciate that you didn't say Sins are OP. I think the same. Players need to learn to play vs. Sins, the matchup is different than every other class. If you played a lot vs. Destroyer/BM, you kinda know what to do against BD. If you played a lot vs. Summoner and FM, you kinda know how to play vs. WL. But there's not that much you can compare Sins to and the mechanics are pretty unique, so that might be a challenge to many players. Atleast when it comes to midtier Arena. I think that Sins lose a lot of effectiveness the higher it gets, to be honest. Every class there is has a good chance of winning once they know what to do and how to position themselves. It's a bit like a magic trick, once you know how it works it loses it's power.

That's not really true. Just because you understand how they work does not change the fact that either they destroy you when you play on the countered classes or you straight up win on the countering classes. It's like in FPS games, don't fight someone with a sniper rifle when you're in a 5 feet range because that shotgun will kill your ass 9.9/10 times by an equally skilled opponent. The only other factor here is a much less skilled opponent/luck which isn't a factor at all if we're strictly talking about the class balance.

 

A good comparison I'd say in good balance is Dark Souls 2 PvP class types. There are the magic users, heavy, medium, and light physicals. Magic users hits extremely hard but usually have trouble when any of the three types close in the distance. Light weight builds are good against heavy builds because the slow swings and slower stamina recovery will find it hard to keep up with the light weight builds. The heavy builds however do have super armor which enables them to tank lighter hits while swinging their weapons which in this case if they manage to pull off a hit at the same time as the light build, they'll smack them much harder and win the trade. However if the light weight build is quick on their feet and consistently dishing out quick damage and getting out then they'll quickly dwindle the heavy weight build down. It really goes on back and forth like this but Assassins don't really have too much of this going on. Either a target can't ever reach you or you can never reliably reach them.

 

That's where the class balance isn't quite there, it's too extreme in each direction.

Edited by Sammich

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Purestic   
9 hours ago, Sammich said:

That's not really true. Just because you understand how they work does not change the fact that either they destroy you when you play on the countered classes or you straight up win on the countering classes. It's like in FPS games, don't fight someone with a sniper rifle when you're in a 5 feet range because that shotgun will kill your ass 9.9/10 times by an equally skilled opponent. The only other factor here is a much less skilled opponent/luck which isn't a factor at all if we're strictly talking about the class balance.(...)

Hm. I see your point and agree that some classes have a much harder time than others or are nearly unable to win. (KFM for example probably has the fewest chances, I think)

 

I think most matchups are fairly balanced if the Sin isn't playing for a timewin, though. Destroyer for example . Bad Destroyers get absolutely destroyed by Assassins who know what they're doing. If the Destroyer is good enough though, he has a pretty fair chance of winning since he has good unstealth abilities and enough pressure to drain a Tab to 100-0 afterwards.

I think that the fact that many people are having different opinions on what class counters which makes it somewhat balanced, that's why I picked Destroyer as an example. Both Sins and Destroyers cry about an unfair matchup.

 

For timewin- Sins..  well, if you don't have any unstealthing skills you're pretty much *cricket*ed or have to rely on mistakes to deal more damage than your opponent. Not really win-able, but in my experience the worst thing you can do is just stick to a wall. Sure, the wall thing helps if the Sin wants to engage, but timewin- Sins don't engage and he's most likely just throwing bombs and shuriken at you and is waiting on the other side. And honestly, if you straight up run to a corner without even finding out if the opponent is playing for a timewin and then stay there for 2 minutes, you're the one who started going for a timewin and are just provoking this playstyle rather than fighting it. I'm engaging some classes in this situation altough I wouldn't have to, but if you're a FM or Sum.. nope, you don't deserve my empathy.

Edited by Purestic

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Jev   

I get diamond rank every day and lose it back again the same night because of blade cancers. I don't even move vsing them anymore. 

 

Personally, summoners and FMs aren't a real threat. 

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