PvP is balanced.

[Ra9eQuit]

Good day BnS player,

My name is Ra9eQuit and I play all 8 classes. I reached Gold with all of them pretty easily and have no problem with any class (not even BM that many claim bad). Unfortunately, I dont have the time or the will to master a certain class to the max so I wont see Platinum any time soon. I play all classes as I want to play a certain playstyle and in my opinion PvP is balanced class wise mostly. Only very minor tweaks regarding bugs with Destroyer (1 or 2 doesnt hit as enemy just walks out of range) and other bugs are needed.

The game is balanced.
Go on, start crying. Daddy is here for you all <3
Dont worry :) Life isnt over because you got smashed by a cat or you couldnt see your oponent once the entire game ^^
Claim it op, hopefully this will compromise for the fact that you didnt get enough love in your childhood or your life is just terrible :)

Sincerly,

-Ra9eQuit

[Roxysox]

Gold isn't a milestone. Too many bots to claim Gold is hard to reach. Nice try at a trolling attempt though.

[Masqava]

Power wise: I completely agree, the game is quite balanced.

 

The problem right now is that we are lacking certain hongmoon skills that make matchups more balanced, every class is powerful but some just have a severe advantage against other classes right now.

[DefinitelyNotBronx]

The game is not balanced. It's not supposed to be. Level 50 HM20 is when the game gets balanced, not 45 HM5.

 

Example:

 

Imagine classes were given power budgets. They get X amount of points that are used to determine damage, utility, cooldowns, combo potential, defensive skills, counter play options, etc. The whole 9 yards.

 

Lets say BM's right now have a power budget of 100, with which to work with.

 

Summoners, have a power budget of 300, making them the stronger of the two classes right now.

 

BM = 100

 

SM = 300

 

It's easy to see which one is more powerful. The Summoner of coarse!

 

Now fast forward 5 more levels and 15 more HM levels. All classes get a boost due to more stats, more skill points, and access to more Legendary HM skills.

 

This boost, however, is not equal across the board, and will grant more power to those classes that really need it, and less to those that don't need it as much.

 

Example: 

 

At level 50, HM20, BM will recieve a 300 point boost in power level, while the Summoner receives a 100 point boost.

 

BM: 100 + 300 = 400

 

SM: 300 + 100 = 400

 

With both classes now having a power budget of 400, they are now much more balanced than before. The BM gains 300 putting them at 400, and the SM gains 100 putting them also at 400.

 

It will be balanced later, but for now, we just gotta deal with it.

[Valiant]

Dont worry :) Life isnt over because you got smashed by a cat or you couldnt see your oponent once the entire game ^^

 

I like that you did agree on that fact that Hide and cat that knock you down during grabbing summoner is op, Since you mention it :)

[Ra9eQuit]

11 hours ago, Roxysox said:

Gold isn't a milestone. Too many bots to claim Gold is hard to reach. Nice try at a trolling attempt though.

 

Agreed and thanks I guess. lol
 

11 hours ago, Masqava said:

Power wise: I completely agree, the game is quite balanced.

 

The problem right now is that we are lacking certain hongmoon skills that make matchups more balanced, every class is powerful but some just have a severe advantage against other classes right now.

 

Exactly what I think. The only thing that bothered me about pvp is the fact that matchups even exist, every class should be able to fight anyone at fair grounds.
 

7 hours ago, DefinitelyNotBronx said:

The game is not balanced. It's not supposed to be. Level 50 HM20 is when the game gets balanced, not 45 HM5.

 

Example:

 

Imagine classes were given power budgets. They get X amount of points that are used to determine damage, utility, cooldowns, combo potential, defensive skills, counter play options, etc. The whole 9 yards.

 

Lets say BM's right now have a power budget of 100, with which to work with.

 

Summoners, have a power budget of 300, making them the stronger of the two classes right now.

 

BM = 100

 

SM = 300

 

It's easy to see which one is more powerful. The Summoner of coarse!

 

Now fast forward 5 more levels and 15 more HM levels. All classes get a boost due to more stats, more skill points, and access to more Legendary HM skills.

 

This boost, however, is not equal across the board, and will grant more power to those classes that really need it, and less to those that don't need it as much.

 

Example: 

 

At level 50, HM20, BM will recieve a 300 point boost in power level, while the Summoner receives a 100 point boost.

 

BM: 100 + 300 = 400

 

SM: 300 + 100 = 400

 

With both classes now having a power budget of 400, they are now much more balanced than before. The BM gains 300 putting them at 400, and the SM gains 100 putting them also at 400.

 

It will be balanced later, but for now, we just gotta deal with it.

I see the logic in this one, but your example is perfectly referring to matchup strength. Summoner in itself sure is a strong class, but guess what, every class is. And the bad thing about all this, a certain class has an severe disadvantage over another one in certain Matchups. You can switch out BM with FM and Sum with BM, because on equal skill level, a Blade Master should always win against a Force Master. In this case I could say that the matchup disadvantage for FM is due to lack of "Power Points" which will be distributed at Lvl 50, that just isnt the truth. The truth is that matchup advantage is making the BM so strong against FM and Sum so strong against BM. In my opinion, matchups should be completely deleted out of the game and every class should have skills to counter another which they partially do but for example FM has too little tools against BMs. It isnt unbalanced, it is just simply too hard to successfully play against a counter matchup with like 1 key skill that will win or lose you the game if you hit it or not. This should be fixed.

 

3 hours ago, Valiant said:

Dont worry :) Life isnt over because you got smashed by a cat or you couldnt see your oponent once the entire game ^^

 

I like that you did agree on that fact that Hide and cat that knock you down during grabbing summoner is op, Since you mention it :)

Good job on putting words in my mouth, but I guess you are just mad because that happens to you. "Git gud" as they all say. I wont even argue with you since it would be a waste of time. But yeah, wow, you got me.

[Valiant]

5 hours ago, Ra9eQuit said:

Good job on putting words in my mouth, but I guess you are just mad because that happens to you. "Git gud" as they all say. I wont even argue with you since it would be a waste of time. But yeah, wow, you got me.

Well I will go with "Git gud" from someone who is happy to reach gold by all classes, Special that I'm a little noob with game who reach diamond on first season, second season and now plate :)

[Roxysox]

6 hours ago, Ra9eQuit said:

 

Agreed and thanks I guess. lol

Sorry, allow me to elaborate. You are correct for what you've said, because I agree. The game is balanced, absolutely........to a specific point. Anything past that point is immediately unbalanced. Now, keep in mind that when I talk about this, I'm in no way salty about it, because I understand it does take timing and skill, but in my humble opinion, the animation cancelling makes matches absolutely unfair. I mean, look at Destro's ani-cancel. You can't get out of it. You have to ride out the damage as a Warlock and hope you don't die to it before you can SS out of their range only to have them jump back onto you. KFM? They can ani-cancel you to death before you're able to get away because their 3RF is far too quick.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that the bug made feature turned out to be far more unfair and imbalanced than the devs initially thought, but they probably just ran with it, because it's easier to call a bug a feature than to spend a ridiculous amount to fix it, am I right?

So, to sum up, the game is absolutely balanced, but that balance stops dead at animation cancelling.

[Ra9eQuit]

19 minutes ago, Roxysox said:

Sorry, allow me to elaborate. You are correct for what you've said, because I agree. The game is balanced, absolutely........to a specific point. Anything past that point is immediately unbalanced. Now, keep in mind that when I talk about this, I'm in no way salty about it, because I understand it does take timing and skill, but in my humble opinion, the animation cancelling makes matches absolutely unfair. I mean, look at Destro's ani-cancel. You can't get out of it. You have to ride out the damage as a Warlock and hope you don't die to it before you can SS out of their range only to have them jump back onto you. KFM? They can ani-cancel you to death before you're able to get away because their 3RF is far too quick.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that the bug made feature turned out to be far more unfair and imbalanced than the devs initially thought, but they probably just ran with it, because it's easier to call a bug a feature than to spend a ridiculous amount to fix it, am I right?

So, to sum up, the game is absolutely balanced, but that balance stops dead at animation cancelling.

Interesting, animation cancelling sure has an impact on the game is greatly needed in maximizing your power. But honestly, disabling ani-cancel, would make classes like KFM and Destroyer absolute garbage, so they would need buffs in numbers and their damage will be about the same with animation-canceling just even easier to pull off. Additionally, the KFMs and Destroyers mostly didnt make it so far in the championship which means that even if you maximize their power through animation canceling it still wont bring you a certain victory, it just makes the class what it is supposed to be: Extremly dangerous if caught out. My animation cancelling is very fast on Destroyer which easily takes out between 30k-40k in one combo, which honestly looks broken in numbers but it is really hard to get such an opportunity against experienced players. Same with KFM, they dont do a lot of damage unless they full combo which can be easily prevented by saving his escape. They are supposed to work like that, every fighting game has mechanics that seem like bugs but they are just a key part to maximizing your class or character. The best example for animation cancel not being broken is FM, which has literally 2 trinkets that make comboing him impossible unless the escapes get blown mindlessly. Ani-cancel is a indepth game mechanic and doesnt need a change imo. 

[Roxysox]

Just now, Ra9eQuit said:

Interesting, animation cancelling sure has an impact on the game is greatly needed in maximizing your power. But honestly, disabling ani-cancel, would make classes like KFM and Destroyer absolute garbage, so they would need buffs in numbers and their damage will be about the same with animation-canceling just even easier to pull off. Additionally, the KFMs and Destroyers mostly didnt make it so far in the championship which means that even if you maximize their power through animation canceling it still wont bring you a certain victory, it just makes the class what it is supposed to be: Extremly dangerous if caught out. My animation cancelling is very fast on Destroyer which easily takes out between 30k-40k in one combo, which honestly looks broken in numbers but it is really hard to get such an opportunity against experienced players. Same with KFM, they dont do a lot of damage unless they full combo which can be easily prevented by saving his escape. They are supposed to work like that, every fighting game has mechanics that seem like bugs but they are just a key part to maximizing your class or character. The best example for animation cancel not being broken is FM, which has literally 2 trinkets that make comboing him impossible unless the escapes get blown mindlessly. Ani-cancel is a indepth game mechanic and doesnt need a change imo. 

I would absolutely love to discuss the inner-workings and thought process of PvP with you in a better environment. I've been thinking about running a YouTube series about this kind of thing for a while now to address what NCSoft won't. Would this potentially be something you'd be interested in?

[HUnewearl]

I can't tell if this is a joke thread or not. I mean, sure, the game isn't the desperate cluster*cricket* some people make it out to be right now, but saying that Blade Master and Summoner are relatively equal is a few grapes short of a vine.

 

23 minutes ago, Roxysox said:

So, to sum up, the game is absolutely balanced, but that balance stops dead at animation cancelling.

 

 

The class most reliant on animation canceling right now is Destroyer. I just went through the Diamond counts, and Destroyer had 13 in Diamond to Summoner's 35, KFM's 28, and BD's 26. Not only is Destroyer already weak, if you remove animation canceling as it is right now, Destroyer would need unfathomably large buffs. It would make BM right now look like a top-tier class.

 

I don't disagree that it should go, but I think you need to understand that Destroyer is already weak with animation canceling, and that removing it would produce a game environment vastly different from what you expect.

[Phorni]

Op is op for a reason XD

 

But besides that this game currently is no where near balanced lol

 

1: summoner has a much easier time to get into plat compared to the rest of the classes except sins who pves XD 

 

2: pve sins is like a cheap win pve sin is the type of sin that stealths then throws u an unblockable toxic bomb then runs away until off cd again XD so in end game they win by like 3k dmg XD

 

3: bm deserves a buff cos it's hard to play it into most classes

 

4: kfms need a true sight buff like mushin himself... cos they suffer too much vs stealth units

 

5: I won't comment on wl as to whether it's good or bad... since I haven't played it nor played against a good one... so :3

 

As for des and lbd and fm I think they feel kind of fine to play around with but I would say fm needs some trade off of their current powerless in pvp terms, yes they can one combo u to practically 100-0 and is also the only class that can do this besides wl(found on yt vid not sure if it's realistic) in arena...  but they need more ways to keep their distance or at least I think so XD while trade off some of their ice statue poweress :3 

 

And also op... getting in gold currently on any class is just as much effort as playing 10-15 games lol which is like nothing and ya I'm in plat but still getting into plat I don't really think requires too much effort... 

 

But diamond I think is where the point breaker of efforts actually lie : 3 because u actually need to play well enough to do it XD 

[Ra9eQuit]

4 hours ago, Roxysox said:

I would absolutely love to discuss the inner-workings and thought process of PvP with you in a better environment. I've been thinking about running a YouTube series about this kind of thing for a while now to address what NCSoft won't. Would this potentially be something you'd be interested in?

I was thinking the exact same thing and yeah I would be super interested. In the past month I had a lot of ideas to cover in videos about BnS (didnt start to make videos yet). Maybe we should collaborate and talk about the game privately lel
Uhhhh... If you dont bother, you can give me some contact information like Skype name or whatever, so I can reach you. Or we can meet in BnS, I have no idea. Maybe you have a suggestion too.

-Ra9eQuit

[shrl]

Balanced? Balance can only be accomplished when equally skilled players of different classes are equal. It is true , that any class can lose against any class, but BM is significantly harder to win with very few resist skills and all major high damage skills require at least 36 sec of CD. It is the only class without any unique resist or grab, brand, freeze skill. Even former Korean champion said 45 BM is hopeless.

[SuGenma]

Nope, not balanced at all. 

Im not gonna say this skill makes them overpowerd or spin2win or anything like that.

The game is unbalanced cause some classes have more advantage then the other classes.

Sins who can place their flower at the start of the game and go invis the first second of the fight. I dont mind the flower but u can't counter sin going stealth first second. Unless your bm or LBD.

Bladedancer and blademaster have dash skill wich can give u advantage doing 20 to 30% hp damage headstart. Again hard to counter unless you jump like a retard and catch them off guard.

Scummoners pets do damage when you are aircomboing. I mean that is the most stupid thing iv seen so far. While i do aircombo i get knocked to the ground. That's no balance.

 

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Just now, SuGenma said:

Nope, not balanced at all. 

Im not gonna say this skill makes them overpowerd or spin2win or anything like that.

The game is unbalanced cause some classes have more advantage then the other classes.

Sins who can place their flower at the start of the game and go invis the first second of the fight. I dont mind the flower but u can't counter sin going stealth first second. Unless your bm or LBD.

Bladedancer and blademaster have dash skill wich can give u advantage doing 20 to 30% hp damage headstart. Again hard to counter unless you jump like a retard and catch them off guard.

Scummoners pets do damage when you are aircomboing. I mean that is the most stupid thing iv seen so far. While i do aircombo i get knocked to the ground. That's no balance.

 

 

 

Sin stealth at first second means he sacrifices 10% hp heal and projectile defense for 10 sec on a 36 sec cooldown. I'd be glad if sins used this shit against me.

 

LBM/BM skill works only on a target on the ground. Easy to counter, really.

 

Scummoner, well is OP.

 

[SuGenma]

Just now, Nebuchadnezzar said:

 

Sin stealth at first second means he sacrifices 10% hp heal and projectile defense for 10 sec on a 36 sec cooldown. I'd be glad if sins used this shit against me.

 

LBM/BM skill works only on a target on the ground. Easy to counter, really.

 

Scummoner, well is OP.

 

I'm not talking about the invissmoke, they can get in steath by spawning behind you even if your in air. For Bd they can jump and use dash aswell. So still pretty unbalanced

[D4ve]

16 minutes ago, SuGenma said:

I'm not talking about the invissmoke, they can get in steath by spawning behind you even if your in air. For Bd they can jump and use dash aswell. So still pretty unbalanced

I am bm,plat currently,i strongly hope that sins just invisi jump glide on me,so i can turn 180 and left click them out of stealth,most predictable and counterable shit ever.Same goes for wood block if u turn 180 you just fck their plans up.On the other hand if they start with invisible bomb for 10 secs i'm pretty much in trouble,block is useless and can be broken by simple right click.That's personal tho.

For thread opener:The day i enter arena and i don't give a shit about which class i'm facing,that day the pvp will be balanced.Right now is just a mean joke to imply we got any balance,all we got is a silly "rock paper scissors" logic that only brings frustration.And that day just can't come cause mmo's have classes,difference is bound to be there.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

3 minutes ago, SuGenma said:

I'm not talking about the invissmoke, they can get in steath by spawning behind you even if your in air. For Bd they can jump and use dash aswell. So still pretty unbalanced

 

Then that's not first second. Same thing, you can't be high in the air. Unless you get switched in the air, but that's another skill.

 

They can't stun you from flying sparrow in the air O.o BD using dash is imbalanced, but you using dash is okay? I thought both people doing the same thing would be considered "balanced" but oh well.

[Ra9eQuit]

13 minutes ago, D4ve said:

For thread opener:The day i enter arena and i don't give a shit about which class i'm facing,that day the pvp will be balanced.Right now is just a mean joke to imply we got any balance,all we got is a silly "rock paper scissors" logic that only brings frustration.

I agree and I hope it will be fixed, but lets say it like that: Even if some matchups are unbearable and others are free wins, you could technically say that it is balanced in a way that every class has those matchups soooo... yeah. I am not trying to justify or say this is any good atm, it sure is troublesome to play against a counter matchup, but it is still winable. Even tho, you are right. It is frustrating because you sometimes dont even have to try and win and sometimes you try everything and still lose.

-Ra9eQuit