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Suggestions Against Bots


CorrupteD

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In the queing system we have to press Ready and when the party is full it automatically sends you to the dungeon or to the tag match fight, with the double confirmation option once the party is completed it will let players decide if they want to proced with that party or leave, i believe this feature is really usefull  cause it will save players time(2 loading screens) and frustration(finding out that there is 1 or more bots  or afk leechers) in cross server dungeons, and is a must for arena tag matches since many times you are forced(due to the system) to be queued with 1 or 2 bots in a party and this not only upset players but is also the reason why many dont play tag match at all and others only do it when they have 2 friends online.

 

ok this is all for now let me know what you guys think

 

Edit 03/13: Added Greeny191 suggestion wich is adding a 3 or 4 digit number that players will have to manually add before every queue, is basically an are you a human? security captcha

 

Edit 03/15: Added Dracconus suggestions, he made many good points on this topic he also added some suggestions about hacks and thats why i thought that it will be great to have this suggestions here where everyone can see them right away, i contacted him about this and he was ok with it, in the end we are all hoping for the same. im adding his 14 points on bots, you can see his full post on page 2 of this topic

 

 

Bots

1.  Randomize the opcodes.  -  I'm not going to sit here, and bump heads, but there is absolutely NO way that the opcodes are randomized and have been cracked as fast as they were, so do it.  There's not that much code necessary to do this, and it's a VERY helpful method to deterring bots.
2.  Image Based Recognition.  - Half of the bots that are out there are using image based recognition thanks to AutoIT - This can easily be combated by creating randomized color pixels within certain elements of the UI that are being used to manipulate the bot to be able to use the marketplace, accept quests, etc.
3.  Window name title  - 90% of AutoIT's functionality is allowed through an automatic detection of game window titles.  Removing the title, or even having it randomly rename itself would easily combat this.  Sure, a programmer could easily change the bot to wait for active window; but that wouldn't result in complete automation, and would require more interaction than some of these botters want to do.  Especially if the game should crash - which brings me to my next point.
4.  Check for Running Programs - Cheat Engine, MyHackingSuite, and other similar programs that are used to scan memory addresses, and search values for them even though they can be completely customized, and randomized still use the same method for creating those names, and leave signature traces that can easily be scanned.  As a caompany, I cannot honestly believe that you have security staff working for you that don't know this.
5.  Check for processes that are hooked.  - A LARGE percentage of bots have to inject into the game somehow.  I know for certain there are two that will remain unnamed that do this and they're the ones that concern me the most because through utilization of the SDK that unreal has conveniently packed for you, they're able to disable gameguard, bypass it completely, and slip right on into this game.  Which brings me to the next point regarding bot prevention...
6.  Check to make sure that Gameguard is actually RUNNING.  Have the client do a heartbeat.  If gameguard isn't running every five seconds, the client crashes.  I'm praying that this has been implemented, but as I actually ENJOY playing this game, and have no intention of doing it any harm, I've not tested this theory for fear of being banned.
7.  Implement a timing procedure - As much as it MIGHT inconvenience the handful of players that are thinking of doing it on patch release dates...Have the client automatically close after "X" amount of time and require a wait before reopening.  Yes, I, as a hardcore player that invests FAR too much time into this game will HATE to receive a warning in chat letting me know I've reached my "consecutive 12 hour play session" ending, and will have to wait 30 minutes before I can play again; but I promise you that it can in some ways help.  Here's why:
8.  use the aforementioned system to see how religiously an account logs in - Using this we can VERY easily determine who's botting even if players can't report them because of the absolutely HORRIBLE targeting system that this game has.  (I'm not sure about you guys, but I can't count how many times I tried to party invite someone before they killed something, and the game ninja'd me of the chance.)
9.  Take advantage of the Achievements - What?  I know, this sounds daft as hell, but hear me out.  Those achievements...they have to have things happen to be won - Create absurd achievements, like "ran "X" dungeon 50 times" or things like that, then look at whether the timestamps on those saved achievement progress stamps are consecutive.  Who do you know that would run a dungeon 50 times in a row?  Not many people.  YES!  There are some out there, but in the event that a ban occurs due to something like this I'm fairly certain the staff here are competent enough to determine whether they're a real player (because we would complain about time lost, and items) or a bot (that would just complain that they have to make a new account, and start over.)
10.  The marketplace - You stated that the entire reason the limitation existed on the marketplace was to deter botting...Hate to say it, but how well did that work out for you?  It took them what?  Two months, before they just stopped caring and said "Meh, we no haz gameguard, we make virtual machine and multibox."
11.  Virtual Machines - I'm sorry, Even I, as a developer don't run virtual machines while gaming unless they're running linux, and while there's not really a way to determine what OS the VM is running, there is a way to know whether or not one is running, but I'm not going to sit here, and keep doing you guys' job for free when you're getting paid for it, and failing...look it up.
12.  Private Messaging, and Party Invites - Please disable message notifications from blocked users...it's annoying to hear the chirp from a botter (a checkbox in the settings, and simple configuration line added to the encrypted xml (which the dll is still in the client to read) would easily fix this along with a few lines of code.  I'm sick and tired of bots PM'ing me and me hearing a notification after I've already blocked them.
13.  Friend Invites - Please disable ALL forms of communication once a user is blocked, and instead of having it block that character, make it block the account they're on.  I get at least 25 invites a day even after declining an invitation from a bot I've already blocked.
14.  Party Invites - Please remove the ability to invite me to a party if I have a profile blocked.

 

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25 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

You do know whatever extra screen you add in, the BOTs just need to program in the extra code to handle it, right?

it is imposible to remove bots as long as they make money to their owners

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47 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

You do know whatever extra screen you add in, the BOTs just need to program in the extra code to handle it, right?

there is no extra screen. the idea is once the party is completed in the lobby u have to click ready again or leave the party if you dont like it and all this without leaving the lobby, right now we are forced to go to the dungeon gateway to leave and sometimes people wont realize there is a bot till they are inside the dungeon, this is meant to help players avoid bots more than removing bots

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43 minutes ago, Marmelon said:

wow people actually buy gold from those sites?

i think some people do otherwise bots will be getting gold just to get gold for alt accounts but in that case there shouldnt be this many bots

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1 hour ago, Malh said:

i think some people do otherwise bots will be getting gold just to get gold for alt accounts but in that case there shouldnt be this many bots

i think this is shifting in the wrong direction, i get that bots exist because their owners get something out of them but this topic is about the idea of adding a new feature to the game that could help the players avoid bots and we are losing focus by going in a different direction here :D

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42 minutes ago, CorrupteD said:

i think this is shifting in the wrong direction, i get that bots exist because their owners get something out of them but this topic is about the idea of adding a new feature to the game that could help the players avoid bots and we are losing focus by going in a different direction here :D

i like your idea man with this you can even leave when you feel the party wont make it or that it will take too long to clear the dungeon not only for bots but imho i dont think they can do this without authorization cause is not a small change

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3 hours ago, Malh said:

people needs to stop buying gold from gold sellers, many ppl complains about bots but then they buy gold from gold sellers making bots profitable for them

I haven't met a single person that complains about bots and has also bought from a gold seller. I do know people that have paid money to NCSoft and complain about the bots and they are quitting the game.  Of course this is anecdotal and with a limited sample size, but it's hard to put the onus on the people that aren't doing what you say.  

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5 hours ago, EffinSoul said:

I haven't met a single person that complains about bots and has also bought from a gold seller. I do know people that have paid money to NCSoft and complain about the bots and they are quitting the game.  Of course this is anecdotal and with a limited sample size, but it's hard to put the onus on the people that aren't doing what you say.  

Yes i get that most of the people complaining are legit players who are getting tired of bots and their tolerance becomes thinner and thinner everyday, in fact the posts of people rage quiting are getting more frequent in the fórum but i also know that it wont surprise anyone if i say that there is some really stupid people out there and stupidity has a huge problem connecting dots, so it isnt hard to believe that this people will  say, with a whiny voice, things like:"ncsoft doesnt care about bots and they are not doing anything about it" when in reality morons like this are the ones fomenting the freaking bots

 

wow i got upset by some hypothetical stupid people :D

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NCsoft is not going to do anything about the bots they have not done so in the past and it is highly unlikely they will ever do so in the future. I highly Recommend filing a BBB complaint against NCsoft as it is likely to be the only way for them to do anything about it.

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1 minute ago, Xugodx said:

NCsoft is not going to do anything about the bots they have not done so in the past and it is highly unlikely they will ever do so in the future. I highly Recommend filing a BBB complaint against NCsoft as it is likely to be the only way for them to do anything about it.

I've noticed that going through the BBB usually gets NCSoft employees to actually take action.
It's a shame.

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10 hours ago, AttacKat said:

 

You do know whatever extra screen you add in, the BOTs just need to program in the extra code to handle it, right?

Then thy this....  It asks you to input a random group of numbers, bot programs cant do that.  Kind of like the id system you have to do before you get to your character screen. This will keep all bots out while letting us legit players have fun.

 

This can also be done in Arena and I know it would be simple to introduce.

 

Not only t hat but it should randomly ask people for a 4 digit code it gives you and that way bots will be logged out cause they can't answer it. I know a few other games that used that to combat bots and it worked rather well.

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14 hours ago, Greeny191 said:

It asks you to input a random group of numbers, bot programs cant do that.  Kind of like the id system you have to do before you get to your character screen. This will keep all bots out while letting us legit players have fun.

i will hate it to see it come to this but i wouldnt mind it at all, it is a bit drastic but sometimes i have to leave 4 or 5 dungeons to get one bot free(specially on the 4 blue lvl 45 dungeons), and in tag match i cant even leave im there getting destroyed by the other team or even worst the other team has bots too it becomes is some sort of weird bot staring challenge for a while, the feature im suggesting isnt that drastic but even if that doesnt work i wouldnt mind this one either

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i know that most people think ncsoft is not doing anything about bots but we all know that in the last patch they banned many bots but even if they ban wave after wave the botters will keep making more, and even if they make a fix for bot scripts it will take botters less than 1 day to do a new code that works around that fix

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I think that's why someone mentioned on needing to input random numbers or letters before going into an arena match or dung finder. That will at least solver that issue by a lot. If it's random then there's no way they can program a script to do that. As for the bots running around, we need a short term fix for it even if it will get solves quickly. They said they banned bots but it doesn't seem like there was even a slight dent into them and that even includes the gold sellers, it's bad and I think that was the first time they even tried to stop bots to be quite honest. They can say they're working on a long term solution as much as they want but it won't be any good when their player base only consists of bots by the time they find a solution. I've also heard they have a shitty track record with other games about this subject also.

P.S I'm lvling a new character right now and the majority of people I see are destro bots... Well they aren't actually people.

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1 hour ago, Malh said:

i know that most people think ncsoft is not doing anything about bots but we all know that in the last patch they banned many bots but even if they ban wave after wave the botters will keep making more, and even if they make a fix for bot scripts it will take botters less than 1 day to do a new code that works around that fix

 

NC is not doing anything PROACTIVE about the bots. Any bot banning you see are the direct result of player reporting. While I take a good portion of my time to report as I can, this isn't "Bot Reporting Simulator 2016" and I  have much better things to do with my gaming time than be Bot Cop.

 

I would be ok with the idea of a SHORT string of random numbers, but I can already see the gears turning in the trolololols heads. "lets see how long I can hold this group hostage by stalling before they rage-quit"

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44 minutes ago, OneYouHate said:

Crap like that getting implemented would without a doubt lose me as a player. No matter what suggestion made by a player or system implemented by the host it only effects players, Keep reporting them and let the host do their thing... 

 you're probably one of the members in elitepvpers trying to play innocent just to let botting easier for everyone.

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18 minutes ago, YuriScarlet said:

never HEARD of such thing as SCRIPTING for a captcha. dont even think they can generate such thing since its random letters thats being generated.

Bots nowadays can be programmed to do OCR (Optical Character Recognition) they say.

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