Reached platinum on my summoner but still get hate?

[Phorni]

1 hour ago, Victorion said:

 

Sin can´t permastealth against a Summoner. DoomNBloom skill constantly breaks their stealth - which is why alot of Sins hate the matchup.

In my oppinion, thats the only class where Summoner is favoured.

In fact if u don't know they can lol because summoner can't cast doom in bloom onto u through stealth...

 

Another thing is : 3 if all u do is throw toxic bombs they can't counter u since u know at that thing can't be parried nor blocked <3 

 

Just because people don't feel like playing sins with perma stealth... it doesn't mean they can't lol u can perna stealth against any class provided u we're gonna do that from start to finish  if u don't feel like doing it that way then nope u can't 

 

Cos the whole mechanism is smoke grenade > toxic bomb then run away lol they have to find u from that point on unless if they iframe ur poison which means u can do tab 1 invis and ss away ... it's just do people feel like doing it lol... just people don't feel like it doesn't make it unavailable. 

 

Whereas summoners don't even have a choice as to their play style lol

 

Not saying it's balanced but hating summoner... first hate ur own class,  every class has their bitchy playstyle just people don't do it doesn't make it unavailable lol... 

 

Edit: my personal balancing the sum idea would be: make the swap cat available for all cc modes but u have to spec into get it, besides that make sum can't command the cat with stunned, dazed or gripped... also make dmg dealt by opponent to the cat counts for 75% towards end game dmg score,  this way people actually have to think before they perma frl...

 

R:  rmb l: lmb

[Victorion]

9 minutes ago, Phorni said:

In fact if u don't know they can lol because summoner can't cast doom in bloom onto u through stealth...

 

Another thing is : 3 if all u do is throw toxic bombs they can't counter u since u know at that thing can't be parried nor blocked <3 

 

Just because people don't feel like playing sins with perma stealth... it doesn't mean they can't lol u can perna stealth against any class provided u we're gonna do that from start to finish  if u don't feel like doing it that way then nope u can't 

 

If you read the thread, you´d notice I also mentioned, that even if the Sin stealths before we get in range - there are ways to break that first stealth and instantly tag them with doomNbloom.

 

@Shirou

I believe its supposed to be that way. Bad translation in skill description perhaps.

Every class has some combo that spells bad news if you get caught in it. KFM has a combo, that can do 70% of your hp away without sweat. Getting caught in a red stun-combo likewise. Lightning Draw etc etc.

For summoner that combo is daze/stun>power pounce>sunflower spam.

 

Remove it, and Summoners has a completely useless skill.

[Shirou]

@Victorion I am aware of such thing, but the sin tab is supposed to be escape as any other tab and 2 escape skills of other classes. Sins really got no other way to get out from it.

[Shiune]

Ok first I thought you'd be somewhat reasonable but now I start to loose my shit. 

 

Ofc this us summoners dmg combo but EVERYONE can escape it at least 1 time with the tab escape. 

But because of this weird bug assassins can't escape everytime because sometimes (or pretty often, or pretty much everytime you grab while woodblocking) the tab escape gets bugged for sins and THAT'S why it's unfair. 

Holy shit stop defending this bug or I am loosing my nerfs srsly. 

 

And for the doom n bloom shit:

Ofc you can put doom n bloom on an assassin but you know what? Backstep+lightning step or a good positioned lotus flower gets you out of the doom n bloom range and makes it useless. 

That's why it's avoidable 

[Victorion]

Just now, Shiune said:

And for the doom n bloom shit:

Ofc you can put doom n bloom on an assassin but you know what? Backstep+lightning step or a good positioned lotus flower gets you out of the doom n bloom range and makes it useless. 

That's why it's avoidable 

 

And do you think thats an optimal response to being tagged to DoomNbloom?

You create a massive distance - just letting prolonging the game in favour of summoner. Summoners greatest disadvantage is cooldown times. I´d love to be able to use my true friend iframe a 2nd or 3rd time in the same round - thats basically 5 seconds of free sunflower spam DPS.

 

I see a few sins that does everytime they get tagged by me - and without lying - I win the rounds with 80%+ hp/Cat 100%

[Shiune]

Wow you must face some srsly bad assassins... damn. 

 

[Phorni]

10 minutes ago, Victorion said:

 

If you read the thread, you´d notice I also mentioned, that even if the Sin stealths before we get in range - there are ways to break that first stealth and instantly tag them with doomNbloom.

 

@Shirou

I believe its supposed to be that way. Bad translation in skill description perhaps.

Every class has some combo that spells bad news if you get caught in it. KFM has a combo, that can do 70% of your hp away without sweat. Getting caught in a red stun-combo likewise. Lightning Draw etc etc.

For summoner that combo is daze/stun>power pounce>sunflower spam.

 

Remove it, and Summoners has a completely useless skill.

I have read it but sum breaks sin stealth due to them going close to the sum :3 and I said u throw a toxic bomb and run

 

43 minutes ago, Victorion said:

 

Nope, unless you are saying all plat sins are bad.

DoomNBloom is not avoidable really. You can stealth before we get in range from start, but we´ll track your blur and beckon you out of stealth, anklebite or otherwise hit you. First chance of seeing it, and you´ve been tagged with doomNbloom. Some sins use flash in hope of getting away while doomNbloom effect is breaking their stealth - but even through the white, we can see the target (change color of aimbox) and we can see the dmg counter that doomNbloom does.

I´ll just tab my cat, daze the sin and spam sunflowers. If I did lost track of the sin, its a seed shroud + cat curl, and next round of stealth break goes into action.

 

Power Pounce specced, breaks defence and disables defensive skills (tab greys out).

Because it they stealthed before getting in range means ur cat is beside u so hence all is melee range > toxic bomb at range > run away....

 

Yes u can track the blur if u have higher graphic setting at my current one the blur only shows if the sin is stealthed within 5m from me <3 

although I have no trouble fighting warrior sins :X

But we will get onto the sin part> smoke grenade > toxic bomb will dmg ur summoner while out of range from any of ur attacks yes I mean out of range. Reason is toxic bomb range is 16m sunflower and thorns are at 8m twice the range so if u still get hit learn to read the meter marker... after that sum in combat > moves slower than stealth sin(toxic bombs cannot be countered by dandelion  :3...

 

After which u run away from the summoner yes I mean u run away and basically all u will ever be attacking the summoner with is the toxic bombs.... 5 minutes later u did dmg summomer didn't > u win > profit.... by afk stealth I mean afk away from the enemy and /stealth toxic bomb....  same applies to most classes honestly because u can stealth toxic bomb anyone and they don't have a retaliation to it... 

 

But this doesn't work if u fight against another sin XD that fight is a dif story

[Shirou]

Escape isn't a defensive skill though, but 2 it kinda seems to be.

[TheRealBronx]

Summoners are unhealthy for 1v1 competitive arena.

 

There is very little counter play available to use against them, and whatever counter play you come up with, they have a counter play for your counter play.

 

If you play Summoner and only Summoner in 1v1 arena, you are contributing to the demise of this game, and it's competitive integrity.

 

It's the very definition of low risk, high reward. Execution becomes a non factor when you're rewarded so heavily for pin down > rmb spam.

[Phorni]

23 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Ok first I thought you'd be somewhat reasonable but now I start to loose my shit. 

 

Ofc this us summoners dmg combo but EVERYONE can escape it at least 1 time with the tab escape. 

But because of this weird bug assassins can't escape everytime because sometimes (or pretty often, or pretty much everytime you grab while woodblocking) the tab escape gets bugged for sins and THAT'S why it's unfair. 

Holy shit stop defending this bug or I am loosing my nerfs srsly. 

 

And for the doom n bloom shit:

Ofc you can put doom n bloom on an assassin but you know what? Backstep+lightning step or a good positioned lotus flower gets you out of the doom n bloom range and makes it useless. 

That's why it's avoidable 

Sry but my sin can tab escape from sums 

... nvr had a problem orz 

 

U gotta spec it I reckon,  I have seen so so many sins forgetting to spec it and say > bug wtf....  then it's like but u didn't spec it for escape grab orz... or u pressed it too late XD if the cat started clawing u then u can't tab escape anymore lol

 

Another thing is... u don't need to wood block vs sum... it's the most retarded idea unless if the opposing sum is bad or they lag.. otherwise ur wood block is perma ignored 

 

Another thing is if u R going to perma use ur flower for getting out of range then I would say just wait of the timer sins have permanent advantage over all other classes with this playstyle but 1: it's boring af 2: it's gay 3: it's sad life playing like that but u know what... easy win is easy win lol 

7 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

Summoners are unhealthy for 1v1 competitive arena.

 

There is very little counter play available to use against them, and whatever counter play you come up with, they have a counter play for your counter play.

 

If you play Summoner and only Summoner in 1v1 arena, you are contributing to the demise of this game, and it's competitive integrity.

 

It's the very definition of low risk, high reward. Execution becomes a non factor when you're rewarded so heavily for pin down > rmb spam.

Picks fm > face rolls the summoner...  

 

Picks lbd > iframe for days... 

 

Speaking lbd ignores ur snares permanently while sum cats always gives free Chi to lbd...

 

Sum is good against bm and sins(non *cricket* gay sins like meh)

 

But they are kinda bad against fm and lbd... 

 

Edit: I would still say tho arena is not balanced XD but regardless stop just flaming summoners because they only have one playstyle > *cricket* & *cricket* more...

 

Whereas other classes can choose between fighting head on or bitching lol 

[Archess]

15 hours ago, Devinator00 said:

Finished last season with a record of 58 wins and 32 losses and a rating of 1902. I was super proud of reaching platinum but when I mentioned it in my guild chat they just said meh your a summoner so it don't count. It's kind of annoying because the only reason I picked this class when BnS first launched was not because it was overpowered I actually had no idea what was overpowered since ive never played BnS. The only reason I picked a summoner was because they got a kung fu cat and because I played a pet class in world of warcraft called a hunter.

 

Personally, ive never played B&S before it came out in EU and started a KFM, i didnt understand the class difficulty ratings back then, i cant get out of Silver with it even if my life depended on it, my Destroyer i got it with ease to 1750 rating without really doing much pvp, then thinking i got a bit better at BnS i go back to the KFM and oh god....back to eternal silver. Ill get it someday, but for now ill need to bank my ego for a while and humbly take all the lessons my opponents teach me and just get better.

 

There is a really big power gap between the easy classes and expert ones, the learning curve is huge, where the easy ones have their standard atomic nukes at a buttons click away, the expert classes need to trap, guide and bait the opponent and then execute their combo flawlessly to deal only a smidge of damage.

 

You should make a 45 KFM and see at it from another angle what it is all about ^^.

[Shiune]

I'm out... I have no words anymore. 

 

Some scrub sin want to tell me (2k preseason sin with more then 2,5k matches since release including beta) that I've speced my tab wrong and this bug doesn't exist? Fcking really???

No srsly I am out - i know why I'm never on this forum but only on the bladeandsouldojo one... 

[Phorni]

10 minutes ago, Shiune said:

I'm out... I have no words anymore. 

 

Some scrub sin want to tell me (2k preseason sin with more then 2,5k matches since release including beta) that I've speced my tab wrong and this bug doesn't exist? Fcking really???

No srsly I am out - i know why I'm never on this forum but only on the bladeandsouldojo one... 

Lol for someone like u everyone can just upright ignore... u say there is a bug... which I've nvr encountered meanwhile u have gotten bugged so frequently... then even on streams I have seen plat and diamond sins forgetting to spec it on the first match then screams bug> after losing.. opens skill book > finds out haven't specced it... like lol

10 minutes ago, Archess said:

 

Personally, ive never played B&S before it came out in EU and started a KFM, i didnt understand the class difficulty ratings back then, i cant get out of Silver with it even if my life depended on it, my Destroyer i got it with ease to 1750 rating without really doing much pvp, then thinking i got a bit better at BnS i go back to the KFM and oh god....back to eternal silver. Ill get it someday, but for now ill need to bank my ego for a while and humbly take all the lessons my opponents teach me and just get better.

 

There is a really big power gap between the easy classes and expert ones, the learning curve is huge, where the easy ones have their standard atomic nukes at a buttons click away, the expert classes need to trap, guide and bait the opponent and then execute their combo flawlessly to deal only a smidge of damage.

 

You should make a 45 KFM and see at it from another angle what it is all about ^^.

And yes... class difficulty counts but u also need to know the higher the class difficulty the more potential that class have > high difficulty = high skill cap = strong when u reach that level of skill,  low difficulty = low skill cap = harder to perform at same high strength without great skill level lol 

 

But ya for sums to get into plat... it's not as hard as say for a bm or kfm to do... but to hit diamond... summoners will find more difficulties than those bms and kfms. But reaching the skills required from those is a lot more effort in the beginning... 

 

Basically sum = easy early life, hard late life... high difficulty > hard early life,  easy late life 

[TheRealBronx]

I think Summoners could be pretty balanced with 2 major changes.

 

Leave their damage, cc durations, charge disables, heals, and cat alone. What I would change about them is the cooldowns to two abilities.

1) Cat tank mode: This should not have a 6 sec. cooldown in PvP. For some classes, killing the cat is their only chance of having a real match. Cat tank mode is pretty much spammable as is. I would leave the skill to function as it does now, but I would make the cooldown 60 seconds, to allow a bigger window to counterplay. With this change, a player would have the ability to make it a true 1v1, at the sacrifice of their important cooldowns.

 

2) Cat grapple cooldown is 18 seconds, and has a 5 second CC duration. Other classes have CC's with 2-3 second durations with 24-36 second cooldowns. This is no bueno. My solution would be either to double the cooldown to 36 seconds to match the Tab escape cooldown, or leave the cooldown as is, and allow the player to break the grapple using a timed reversal similar to Blade Dancer grabs. Out of all the classes with grabs, Summomer is the only one who is able to unload their full dps potential while the opponent is CC'd. Destroyer and BD grabs have 6 second durations, but their offensive options during the grab are limited.

 

With these two changes, I doubt there would be much to complain about, as both sides would be fighting on equal grounds.

[Phorni]

6 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

I think Summoners could be pretty balanced with 2 major changes.

 

Leave their damage, cc durations, charge disables, heals, and cat alone. What I would change about them is the cooldowns to two abilities.

 

1) Cat tank mode: This should not have a 6 sec. cooldown in PvP. For some classes, killing the cat is their only chance of having a real match. Cat tank mode is pretty much spammable as is. I would leave the skill to function as it does now, but I would make the cooldown 60 seconds, to allow a bigger window to counterplay. Out of all the classes with grabs, Summomer is the only one who is able to unload their full dps potential while the opponent is CC'd. Destroyer and BD grabs have 6 second durations, but their offensive options during the grab are limited.

 

2) Cat grapple cooldown is 18 seconds, and has a 5 second CC duration. Other classes have CC's with 2-3 second durations with 24-36 second cooldowns. This is no bueno. My solution would be either to double the cooldown to 36 seconds to match the Tab escape cooldown, or leave the cooldown as is, and allow the player to break the grapple using a timed reversal similar to Blade Dancer grabs.

 

With these two changes, I doubt there would be much to complain about, as both sides would be fighting on equal grounds.

1: the cat curl only lasts 4 seconds after which 5 seconds u can kill like half it's hp... but regardless this cat curl thing... what u do is once u forced thee curl > attack the summoner...  they will be then forced to make their cat leave curl so u will have ~7 seconds on the cat if u really intended to kill it... 

 

2: summoner only has 1hard escape while other classes have 2 (sin lotus flower can be used as a hard escape)... so if the power pounce cd is 36 seconds well u will have to give summoner another hard escape...

 

Because every class need 2 hard escapes > sum has one and the other one is while cced they cc u with their cat hence escaped from ur cc combo....  so making grap longer cd means that u will have a easier time by deleting the class :3 ...

[Recettear]

OP, of course you dont get credit for being plat when you got there with a class that adds a free 300 points. goes without saying...

this is also why alot of ppl hate sums, it simply doesnt go down well when you get beaten by a player that wouldnt even be in the same bracket skillwise.

 

but i think a big part of the hate comes not from the unbalance but from the incredibly cheesy playstyle. sins get alot of hate for that as well. that reliance on cheese is also why most sums hit a wall at some point when they start to get matched against players who are skilled enough to deal with that shit. the difference between summoners below and beyond that point is propably huge.

[TheRealBronx]

That's all gravy, but what if the Summoner uses Dandy after the cat curl? You can't attack him while it's up, and if you do, he's stealthed and buying even more time.

 

That leaves a very small window with which to attack the Summoner, and even if you do manage to get on him, cat breaks your combo, wasting your gapcloser cooldown, combo ability cooldown, and your already tiny window of opportunity.

 

With such short cooldowns on the Curl and Grapple, it's more about hoping the Summoner player messes up, than you maximizing your efficiency in dealing with them.

[D4ve]

16 hours ago, Devinator00 said:

Finished last season with a record of 58 wins and 32 losses and a rating of 1902. I was super proud of reaching platinum but when I mentioned it in my guild chat they just said meh your a summoner so it don't count. It's kind of annoying because the only reason I picked this class when BnS first launched was not because it was overpowered I actually had no idea what was overpowered since ive never played BnS. The only reason I picked a summoner was because they got a kung fu cat and because I played a pet class in world of warcraft called a hunter.

Reading this just makes me laugh and cry at the same time...before reset i had 1870 BM and my matches weren't 58 wins and 32 losses..they were 200wins and 160-170 losses or smth like that......58 wins and 32 losses is  like you played one  day and know nothing about pvp...but well..summoners.Real balance,real skill  needed.EDIT:just noticed you are asking for hacks in another thread,summoners really want it easy.

[Phorni]

10 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

That's all gravy, but what if the Summoner uses Dandy after the cat curl? You can't attack him while it's up, and if you do, he's stealthed and buying even more time.

 

That leaves a very small window with which to attack the Summoner, and even if you do manage to get on him, cat breaks your combo, wasting your gapcloser cooldown, combo ability cooldown, and your already tiny window of opportunity.

 

With such short cooldowns on the Curl and Grapple, it's more about hoping the Summoner player messes up, than you maximizing your efficiency in dealing with them.

It depends on ur class.. as a sin when cat curls just go invis on cat and run with love from God... with lbd or fm for example u use force grip or phanthom grip which ever it's called... then proceed to killing the sum if they don't call the cat back: 3

 

I have nvr played des so idk how to do.it as des but I reckon u can use some grap which pulls the sum in also (dandelion doesnt proc from this skill i tried it vs des bots alr they can pull me through my dandelion XD 

 

As kfm welp I nvr tried it but I think u can do some Pierce counter move

 

Same goes for bm...  I personally not even sure if they have it hahah

 

[Nirv]

I dont wanna read all people answer but i GZ to you for you platinium on summoner.  I can beat summoner as every my class ( play as 5 characters)People just cant play,

[MadnessCaffe]

Damn. As BM you have to be Jaesung to beat summoners. If you look at him playing even someone skilled like him has to put a lot of effort to beat summoners, it's stupid. And that's in patch 50. Right now summoners disable my block for a shitload of times, I can SS just once and i get snared again. If I approach and CC them they just roll or tab and go into stealth and repeat the snare/pin/sunflower. Until I can catch them off guard I'm down to 10% hp.

[Enamour]

This thread is on a slippery slope.

[D4ve]

14 minutes ago, MadnessCaffe said:

Damn. As BM you have to be Jaesung to beat summoners. If you look at him playing even someone skilled like him has to put a lot of effort to beat summoners, it's stupid. And that's in patch 50. Right now summoners disable my block for a shitload of times, I can SS just once and i get snared again. If I approach and CC them they just roll or tab and go into stealth and repeat the snare/pin/sunflower. Until I can catch them off guard I'm down to 10% hp.

Actually jaesung has a vid where he loses to gold summoners on na,several times,and he isn't half happy about it,and he points out that everyone playing bm at 45 cap is to be respected.I kinda don't care being respected i would just like to see people admitting things instead of hiding behind walls of air.Like some "big shot" right here saying "but i rek summoner everytime" you just bad you must l2p.Sure.This is the usual FM talking thinking they're good being an ice statue for half match,recharging 4 bars of hp in 3 minutes, and beating the opponent causing them to die of boredom,unless he is so patient to just let the timer end and win by more damage.Guess what bm doesn't have ice statues and can't pewpew...go play one if you're so skilled.And for all those smart guys linking korean stuff just know that isn't lv 45 cap and their content is actually balanced,not like what we have,get your facts straight before pointing out bullshit like you're some kind of messiah and everyone else sucks.

[MadnessCaffe]

5 minutes ago, D4ve said:

Actually jaesung has a vid where he loses to gold summoners on na,several times,and he isn't half happy about it,and he points out that everyone playing bm at 45 cap is to be respected.I kinda don't care being respected i would just like to see people admitting things instead of hiding behind walls of air.Like some "big shot" right here saying "but i rek summoner everytime" you just bad you must l2p.Sure.This is the usual FM talking thinking they're good being an ice statue for half match and beating the opponent causing them to die of boredom.Guess what bm doesn't have ice statues and can't pewpew...go play one if you're so skilled.

 

Most of the times I can't do shit vs summoners. I usually just yolo burst their cat in the beginning, if it doesn't work, afk. And even when cat is dead, there's a high chance you can lose. They got extreme survivability with dandelion,snares,dots,etc.

 

Another shit match up for BM is assassin. Stealth, stealth, stealth, make ONE mistake, get bursted 90% hp or if the sin is not that good, bursted 20-30% hp, then stealth, stealth, stealth, combo, combo, combo, etc. You can make a sandwich and come back looking at the sin comboing you without being able to do anything, it's retarded. If you don't hit into their counter they still stealth a shitload of times, frustrating.

[Phorni]

23 minutes ago, D4ve said:

Actually jaesung has a vid where he loses to gold summoners on na,several times,and he isn't half happy about it,and he points out that everyone playing bm at 45 cap is to be respected.I kinda don't care being respected i would just like to see people admitting things instead of hiding behind walls of air.Like some "big shot" right here saying "but i rek summoner everytime" you just bad you must l2p.Sure.This is the usual FM talking thinking they're good being an ice statue for half match,recharging 4 bars of hp in 3 minutes, and beating the opponent causing them to die of boredom,unless he is so patient to just let the timer end and win by more damage.Guess what bm doesn't have ice statues and can't pewpew...go play one if you're so skilled.And for all those smart guys linking korean stuff just know that isn't lv 45 cap and their content is actually balanced,not like what we have,get your facts straight before pointing out bullshit like you're some kind of messiah and everyone else sucks.

Its like everyone agrees bm needs a buff here on na...  but another thing is...  they will become op @50 patch so idk XD 

 

besides that, bms will have very hard time vs summoners...