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HelloMyFriend

Kick option isn't coming

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 I see tons of these kick option posts but i am here to burst your bubble cause the kick option for online players will not happen, all that would promote is elitists  kicking players cause they don't like their AP and think you need 400+ AP just to do BSH.

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Vote to kick has to be an option whether the player is online or offline. As for the elitist kicks, if the rest of the team doesn't want the guy in party why not let them kick him/her?

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Enhance   
26 minutes ago, HelloMyFriend said:

 I see tons of these kick option posts but i am here to burst your bubble cause the kick option for online players will not happen, all that would promote is elitists  kicking players cause they don't like their AP and think you need 400+ AP just to do BSH.

That only applies to master-kick options. If 5 out of 5 players don't want you in their party, you shouldn't be in their party. Be it because you're a bot, afker, troller, or awakened infernal weapon wielder in lab-4 - vote kick is reasonable. But I do agree that letting party leader kick people is a no-go.

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Llednar   

Wow! Such a smart and very substantial input: kick option is only for elitists, therefore this will never happen.

I'm glad that you understand how this game works and what the community wants, thank you very much. Now we all will stop wanting this and we will try to not be elitists.

My best regards.

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Zel   
6 minutes ago, Llednar said:

Wow! Such a smart and very substantial input: kick option is only for elitists, therefore this will never happen.

I'm glad that you understand how this game works and what the community wants, thank you very much. Now we all will stop wanting this and we will try to not be elitists.

My best regards.

 

Say what you want, but this is the exact reason it was never implemented in Aion. People WOULD deliberately kick you for being undergeared and it happened often. There were some places you couldn't do it though, like PvP instances. There was a huge community push (by the PvP'ers) for an implemented kick function but it was dismissed as being an enabler for bad behavior. You'd just kick until you got someone with acceptable gear.

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4 minutes ago, Zel said:

 

Say what you want, but this is the exact reason it was never implemented in Aion. People WOULD deliberately kick you for being undergeared and it happened often. There were some places you couldn't do it though, like PvP instances. There was a huge community push (by the PvP'ers) for an implemented kick function but it was dismissed as being an enabler for bad behavior. You'd just kick until you got someone with acceptable gear.

 

Same in PSO2 as well. If you're late for your squad and have no choice but to join pubs, enjoy being kicked out of groups if the mere sight of your  weapon isn't up to par. 

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Llednar   
Just now, Zel said:

 

Say what you want, but this is the exact reason it was never implemented in Aion. People WOULD deliberately kick you for being undergeared and it happened often. There were some places you couldn't do it though, like PvP instances. There was a huge community push (by the PvP'ers) for an implemented kick function but it was dismissed as being an enabler for bad behavior. You'd just kick until you got someone with acceptable gear.

It doesn't matter. What we want is to actually run a dungeon, if there are 6 members we want those 6 members to be humans and we want everyone to help us to do it. I'm tired of running a 6 man dungeon with only 4 players because 2 are bots/afk.
If 80% of every single damn party wants to kick you out of their team then I'm sorry but you have to suck it up, however this wont happen because those elitists will pug their dungeons instead of going cross server with randoms who will mostly have less than 400 AP.
You've got to face reality, this game is overflowing with bots and I'm the number of parties being ruined by bots/afks is WAY bigger than people who will want high requeriments to run dungeons and yet will do a cross server random match up.
Just look at other games such as TERA, or my favorite old Ragnarok who used to have many bots as well. The voting system works and it can co-exist with the ego of elitists. Now if you are sure it wont be implemented because "everyone is an elitist and it will ruin our sacred bot/afk-free game" well I guess it can't be helped.
 

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Zel   
1 minute ago, Llednar said:

It doesn't matter. What we want is to actually run a dungeon, if there are 6 members we want those 6 members to be humans and we want everyone to help us to do it. I'm tired of running a 6 man dungeon with only 4 players because 2 are bots/afk.
If 80% of every single damn party wants to kick you out of their team then I'm sorry but you have to suck it up, however this wont happen because those elitists will pug their dungeons instead of going cross server with randoms who will mostly have less than 400 AP.
You've got to face reality, this game is overflowing with bots and I'm the number of parties being ruined by bots/afks is WAY bigger than people who will want high requeriments to run dungeons and yet will do a cross server random match up.
Just look at other games such as TERA, or my favorite old Ragnarok who used to have many bots as well. The voting system works and it can co-exist with the ego of elitists. Now if you are sure it wont be implemented because "everyone is an elitist and it will ruin our sacred bot/afk-free game" well I guess it can't be helped.
 

 

If you leave it up to players it will be abused. THAT's reality. I'd love to kick bots from a group (I have a static I don't actually pub and never will, ever, but I get the sentiment) but if you just give an option to kick someone it's going to be used for anything and everything. Bad gear? Kick. Being a jackass? Kick. Legitimately a Bot? Kick. Afk? Kick. Might as well be Afk? Kick. We need a different class for the 6th member? Kick. Turns out our DPS isn't as good as we thought it was, who's the biggest slacker here, do we think it's this guy? Kick.

 

The Tera votekick system sucked for the same reason. That and the 1 vote veto.

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RoXor   
55 minutes ago, HelloMyFriend said:

 I see tons of these kick option posts but i am here to burst your bubble cause the kick option for online players will not happen, all that would promote is elitists  kicking players cause they don't like their AP and think you need 400+ AP just to do BSH.

That is not the valid reason not to implement it. People who prefer "higher quality" in party already do not join random groups, but advertise their requirements (for example 400 + AP) in lobby or choose  to apply on other player with such requirements. This sounds tome more like lame excuse not to be able implement basic

features in MMO.

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Llednar   
1 minute ago, Zel said:

 

If you leave it up to players it will be abused. THAT's reality. I'd love to kick bots from a group (I have a static I don't actually pub and never will, ever, but I get the sentiment) but if you just give an option to kick someone it's going to be used for anything and everything. Bad gear? Kick. Being a jackass? Kick. Legitimately a Bot? Kick. Afk? Kick. Might as well be Afk? Kick. We need a different class for the 6th member? Kick. Turns out our DPS isn't as good as we thought it was, who's the biggest slacker here, do we think it's this guy? Kick.

 

The Tera votekick system sucked for the same reason. That and the 1 vote veto.

I don't see in what world you are if you think this is reality, but I have been playing MMORPGs for years and never have been easily kicked from dungeons. Maybe that means I'm not stupid to do high level dungeons with low level gears, or maybe it's because the players with high AP won't do dungeons with randoms.
If we are talking about TERA, then this is a way better example of how you are wrong at saying the system sucks. TERA's instant matching option is the place you go whenever you have low ilv and you want to do a dungeon, it's mostly known as "trap runs". Nobody with decent ilv wants to do it because they know not everyone will be well geared(or they wont know the dungeon's rules, see Manaya's Core) so they just do PUGs, getting parties from the LFG chat. This is why the Zone/Faction/Dragonpire/Guild exist, for you to look for players to run dungeons with you and to make sure you are all geared for that. Instance Matching system is for you to find party quick and not worry about who's well geared or who has the highest AP because they are mostly all the same there.

It just seems to me that you were being kicked many times from parties because your gear sucked so hard yet you wanted to do a high level dungeon and you got mad at it, if you defend the idea to let bots abuse the party just because you think everyone is an elitist.

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7XVe   

There isn't a good reason why the kick option should not be implemented. If you do have bad gear, get better gear until you're ready for the dungeon. People may be inclined to kick players with low AP because doing bosses over and over again (since one player isn't doing anything) is tiresome. 

 

The dungeon is available. Does it mean that you should go into it? Probably not. Bosses have enrage timers as well. You need a certain amount of DPS otherwise the dungeon isn't even viable. Currently the kick option is needed to remove bots and afk'ers. If it includes players with low AP, all five other players would have to agree, so unless you're bringing < 350 AP to level 45 dungeons, you wouldn't need to worry.

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Llednar   

Oh, I also forgot to add that in TERA there is an ilv requeriment, which means players with very low gears won't be able to join a dungeon. If you are there it means you can beat it, so you don't get constantly kicked for not being too well geared.

If they implement an AP requeriment and a vote kick option it won't be abused (of course it can happen, but abused? I don't believe so).

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fruitie   
37 minutes ago, RoXor said:

That is not the valid reason not to implement it. People who prefer "higher quality" in party already do not join random groups, but advertise their requirements (for example 400 + AP) in lobby or choose  to apply on other player with such requirements. This sounds tome more like lame excuse not to be able implement basic

features in MMO.

Well watching one of their streams they did seem hesitant to adding a vote kick, and I will agree that in other games it is heavily abused and highly toxic which can turn players away. Of course the bots are doing the same thing. Anyway I've already seen 2 threads fairly recently requesting for the minimal requirements to be raised to absurd amounts. People WILL be elitist.

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Fael   
10 minutes ago, fruitie said:

Well watching one of their streams they did seem hesitant to adding a vote kick, and I will agree that in other games it is heavily abused and highly toxic which can turn players away. Of course the bots are doing the same thing. Anyway I've already seen 2 threads fairly recently requesting for the minimal requirements to be raised to absurd amounts. People WILL be elitist.

 

This. Some people will always be elitist. You will find some hardcore players wanting to farm a dungeon but not doing it with a clan or some friends, and insulting people who don't have the latest maxed stuff because "OMG, the run is gonna be so slow!". 

 

And then, usually, these elitist players ignore all the mechanics of the dungeon, die, cause wipes, but hey, they have an awesome stuff, so it's clearly not their fault. 

 

Yes, I've seen this kind of players a lot more than needed. The kind of players who cried because the other members of a raid didn't know the strat of a dungeon released 2 hours earlier, or the guys trying to kick you out because you have the best stuff of the previous update only, not the new 3 days old update, so you clearly can't play in a generic and easy new dungeon. 

 

And in this game, it will be so easy if you are in a 4 or 5 men group to kick the other player(s) just before the last boss... So, I'm not a huge fan of the kick option, I would prefer something like access restrictions and automatic kicks for the afk players. 

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RoXor   
28 minutes ago, fruitie said:

Well watching one of their streams they did seem hesitant to adding a vote kick, and I will agree that in other games it is heavily abused and highly toxic which can turn players away. Of course the bots are doing the same thing. Anyway I've already seen 2 threads fairly recently requesting for the minimal requirements to be raised to absurd amounts. People WILL be elitist.

 

- Low geared person would not  be kicked out of group. So called "elitist" would create/join his group with AP requirements at first.If he would join PUG he would rather leave instance at start after checking character info of party members and look for new group .

This is already happening....

 - If there is such content that low performance of one player (who is potentionally subject of votekick) would affect group to the degree that it would prevent them to finish encounter  ( most likely not as usually fail is group effort) , than with current dungeon design, group will rather disband, nobody will be kicked.

For simple reason that finding new group is easier/less time consuming than waiting for new recruit to run whole instance and hoping it will be better this time.

Already happening now...

 

So i am not sure about what type of adverse effects they were talking on stream, because there are none. And we are talking about small part of conten,t which would be affected.

 

PS: What about implement proper dung requirements instead of dokumo blue weapon and fix all this??

 

 

Edited by RoXor

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Enhance   
31 minutes ago, RoXor said:

PS: What about implement proper dung requirements instead of dokumo blue weapon and fix all this??

Even though it's 100% reasonable, if they do that, we won't see kick for sure, and then people will have to carry bots, afkers, and trolls.

I'm glad I don't have to run crossserver anymore.

Edited by Enhance

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fruitie   
37 minutes ago, RoXor said:

 

- Low geared person would not  be kicked out of group. So called "elitist" would create/join his group with AP requirements at first.If he would join PUG he would rather leave instance at start after checking character info of party members and look for new group .

This is already happening....

 - If there is such content that low performance of one player (who is potentionally subject of votekick) would affect group to the degree that it would prevent them to finish encounter  ( most likely not as usually fail is group effort) , than with current dungeon design, group will rather disband, nobody will be kicked.

For simple reason that finding new group is easier/less time consuming than waiting for new recruit to run whole instance and hoping it will be better this time.

Already happening now...

 

So i am not sure about what type of adverse effects they were talking on stream, because there are none. And we are talking about small part of conten,t which would be affected.

 

PS: What about implement proper dung requirements instead of dokumo blue weapon and fix all this??

 

 

Well it is pretty naive to think that it won't be abused. The last MMO I played there was quite a bit of discussion about people kick before boss drops. I could see certain people doing the same here just to get through the trash easier, especially if some of them are premade. Btw they were only mentioning on the stream about leaving a party with an afker. They didn't say there won't be a vote kick option, but it seemed like it was something they'd ideally not want to implement currently. They could change their minds with how big of an impact it's become though and it is just how I saw things.

 

As for the minimum requirement, I have no issues with some bumpage, dokumo is pretty low for labyrinth for example. Imo it's fine for poh, after all it is meant to be a minimum requirement. I'm sure especially now it can be easily done in 6 man. The requests from some people were top end gear though which excludes people and basically widens the gap between the rich and people a little more casual.

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I don't get what this sense of entitlement is.  Why should any party be forced to play with you?  If the ability to control who is and is not in your party is not available, players will just do the next best thing, disband the party.  Unless you're also suggesting that players not be allowed to disband parties.  Its really hard to tell because this whole line of thought about "elitism" and so forth just feels like under-geared players whining that higher geared players don't want to carry them through instances. 

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