REALLY picky players pt. 2

[Zel]

If those 6 people were split into the correct class composition and had 50% crit rate and knew the fight inside and out, yes, they could. They'd probably get within 30 seconds on the enrage timer but its doable.

[Fuz]

7 hours ago, Spyroxion said:

Also, not to be rude, but I kinda dislike people like you, who go to a new dungeons (new = harder than others lel) and don't even watch a video of it's walktrough guide 

No, this is bullshit. Players shouldn't be expected to watch a video of the dungeon before going in, are you *cricket*ing crazy?

But yes, you don't go in Naryu with profane. You just don't.

[Teffy]

My friends are new.Sure they have some gear but for the gear they have is really bad.Sure I explained to them inside out every little damn thing and yet they refuse to learn at best.Sure with 2 of them I did 6 man lab in 3 people but I had to kill one of the gods alone plus to help them do ther abit...Except one the other 2 are just spoiled being carried everywhere.Is that a good thing? You want just get carried? Well sorry there will not be people that would like to carry people.In fact I hate leechers myself.My friends are exception because...well because they are friends lol but thats it.

You are some random guy in some random dungeon being carried.

 

160 crit and pierce is not just 7 AP extra.

[Yamazen]

15 minutes ago, Huairennn said:

How about profane with +25 atk diamond?

 

Better, still sometimes not enough. 

 

12 minutes ago, Zel said:

If those 6 people were split into the correct class composition and had 50% crit rate and knew the fight inside and out, yes, they could. They'd probably get within 30 seconds on the enrage timer but its doable.

 

Sure. But the cross server browser isn't exactly know for making well composed setups. And you need at least a somewhat descent shield to get to 50% crit.

There are people queing for this in moonwater souls shields.. 

 

Besides that, I can't know how "good" people are from their AP or soul shield for that amtter. 

This is cynical I know, but I expect random players in the labyrinth to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. 

Before I invest an hour of my time into a dungeon run, I want to be at least sure that the group could compensate for potential misshaps with a little extra AP. 

[Zel]

3 minutes ago, Fuz said:

No, this is bullshit. Players shouldn't be expected to watch a video of the dungeon before going in, are you *cricket*ing crazy?

But yes, you don't go in Naryu with profane. You just don't.

 

Watching a quick run through of an instance before its released or before running it for the first time is par for the course these days. At the very least skimming a guide. Do you know what a disaster 6 new players trying to figure out the Ba Ido fight is? 

 

On a similar vein my group didn't even know what the mechanics were to the Minotaur fight. We just full burned him in a couple minutes and moved on. It wasn't until someone read a guide on it after disastrously pugging and seeing all these lasers and enrage nonsense that they told us.

[Magdaelena]

@Rurotsuke

about heavely geared ppl...Actualy they search each other and postin requariments to join party.

As I said before in some post...If some narcist is looking for "red carpet" in random que then its only his foult.

But in other side I get anoyed when its posted (400+ experienced or fast run) and I see in party 374AP and in first boss I get..."Its my first run what I must do here?"

[Zel]

7 minutes ago, Yamazen said:

 

 

Sure. But the cross server browser isn't exactly know for making well composed setups. And you need at least a somewhat descent shield to get to 50% crit.

There are people queing for this in moonwater souls shields.. 

 

Besides that, I can't know how "good" people are from their AP or soul shield for that amtter. 

This is cynical I know, but I expect random players in the labyrinth to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. 

Before I invest an hour of my time into a dungeon run, I want to be at least sure that the group could compensate for potential misshaps with a little extra AP. 

 

Hardly cynical, it's logical. A 6 man static could do the dungeon with garbage gear, almost guaranteed. A randomly thrown together pub, doubtful. My group (All 430+) casually does the 6 man and we spend more time trying to kill each other than anything else. There's a HUGE margin for error in that place, but some very specific parts that you need to do peefectly. The 4man is a different story...

[Yoshi77]

You see the problem here is not that he went to a dungeon with low gear. It's that the game allowed him to go to the dungeon with low gear. People will do what they are allowed to do. So maybe the you should have to have siren or above to queue for this dungeon.

[Dowra]

6 minutes ago, Zel said:

 

Watching a quick run through of an instance before its released or before running it for the first time is par for the course these days. At the very least skimming a guide. Do you know what a disaster 6 new players trying to figure out the Ba Ido fight is? 

 

On a similar vein my group didn't even know what the mechanics were to the Minotaur fight. We just full burned him in a couple minutes and moved on. It wasn't until someone read a guide on it after disastrously pugging and seeing all these lasers and enrage nonsense that they told us.

So basically Korean server players are the only ones who can have fun and experience something new, themselves.  And everyone else has to be sheep and mimic what they do?  Are you really that insecure about your own playing, and that scared of failure that you have to research a game weeks ahead of time, so its not all a scary new dungeon for you?

 

"6 people trying to figure out Ba would be a disaster!"

Under whos definition?  I would hope it would be a fun, learning experience for everyone involved.  If youre  that worried about getting inexperienced players in a party, how about, instead of being mad about them queing in, you be the one to only party with friends? Because youre the one who seems to have the problem.

[Rurotsuke]

@Magdaelena I agree with you, if there's a requirement in the recruit message and people join without meeting it, they're at fault. My previous posts are about the context of someone heavily geared join a pug group through cross-server (random match, not through a recruitment message) and cuss at them for not meeting his/her expectations of what players they expect to meet there. Ofc as I also mentioned, someone newbie may too be at fault depending on the way they act, it all goes into each group's context. :) I try to be neutral because I've experienced it from all sides. Was a carried newbie once, later carried others, met people who were willing to learn after 2 or 3 wipes and also people who just went berserk on the group even being their first time there, etc.

[Yamazen]

 

7 minutes ago, Dowra said:

So basically Korean server players are the only ones who can have fun and experience something new, themselves.  And everyone else has to be sheep and mimic what they do?  Are you really that insecure about your own playing, and that scared of failure that you have to research a game weeks ahead of time, so its not all a scary new dungeon for you?

 

"6 people trying to figure out Ba would be a disaster!"

Under whos definition?  I would hope it would be a fun, learning experience for everyone involved.  If youre  that worried about getting inexperienced players in a party, how about, instead of being mad about them queing in, you be the one to only party with friends? Because youre the one who seems to have the problem.

 

IMO you are looking at this from an off perspektive. 

The problem here is that the dungeon browser will coble together groups off wildly different experience levels sometimes.

 

If you want to learn a dungeon while you are doing it, thats your choice and that's great. You can do that. No need to watch a guide or anything like that. 

The first time we weent in there with our guild, we did it blind too, on purpose. 

 

But please understand that not everybody in a randomly assigned group is going to feel the same way. 

[Zel]

1 minute ago, Dowra said:

So basically Korean server players are the only ones who can have fun and experience something new, themselves.  And everyone else has to be sheep and mimic what they do?  Are you really that insecure about your own playing, and that scared of failure that you have to research a game weeks ahead of time, so its not all a scary new dungeon for you?

 

"6 people trying to figure out Ba would be a disaster!"

Under whos definition?  I would hope it would be a fun, learning experience for everyone involved.  If youre  that worried about getting inexperienced players in a party, how about, instead of being mad about them queing in, you be the one to only party with friends? Because youre the one who seems to have the problem.

 

If by "research" you mean spend a quick 2 minutes tops skimming the basics of a dungeon yeah, sure. You can summarize every boss fight in 2 sentences and put it right next to the loot table which is what usually happens. If the answer is right in front of you, do you A.) Look at it or B.) Spend an hour+ wiping repeatedly to slowly learning the mechanics of the fight. Some people might pick B, sure. But you know what? Those people will look at a guide later to refine their run anyways or get told off by someone running it better than them. Fundamentally yes the Koreans are the only ones that get to experience new content in this specific environment. Why do you ask? Because this dungeons is 5 years old. Anybody who cares about this game in the slightest already knows the run and has researched it. The only people that don't are casuals.

 

I don't care about pubs, I have a static. The same static I've gone through several MMO's with so we know enough to be able to power through a boss who's mechanics are not immediately obvious. Ba Ido is a good example of a non-obvious boss fight. There's a good number of visual cues but it punishes you very hard and very fast that a 6 man pub would likely not be able to get anything out of. Even when you DO figure out the Red/Blue mechanics there's a lot more to the fight in terms of refining it that you liekly wouldn't figure out from just doing the basic motions.

[Magdaelena]

15 minutes ago, Dowra said:

So basically Korean server players are the only ones who can have fun and experience something new, themselves.  And everyone else has to be sheep and mimic what they do?  Are you really that insecure about your own playing, and that scared of failure that you have to research a game weeks ahead of time, so its not all a scary new dungeon for you?

 

"6 people trying to figure out Ba would be a disaster!"

Under whos definition?  I would hope it would be a fun, learning experience for everyone involved.  If youre  that worried about getting inexperienced players in a party, how about, instead of being mad about them queing in, you be the one to only party with friends? Because youre the one who seems to have the problem.

Absolutly not only Korean players

But you can find others who thinks same as you not in random que but in created group.

Also if someone is new and green and all that stuff...PLEASE inform of it...As first bos in Lab can be done wichout thinking just pure dps that Be Ito not.

And if that inexperienced player get job to be a Boomer or worst Tank 3 Masters all party is dead beacose noone knows that he dosnt know.

[Shiroi Kumo]

The issue with Naryu Labyrinth is people don't want to spend 1h to carry weak people to Fujin and Raijin when they are fully aware they won't be able to get past the DPS check for the enrage timer. When I see weak people, I just leave party and search for a new one.

 

 

[LinaCrysta]

1 hour ago, Yamazen said:

Could six random people with profane weapons clear the lab by themselves?

No. They most likely couldn't.

 

Meaning that every time you want to go in there witha a profane weapon, you are banking on others to make up the difference. 

That's what's ticking me off.

Just finished this with a group of 6 ppl in true profane.so it is possible

[Suziana]

When you join a pick up group (PUG), you agree to the terms and conditions that you can and will be matched with any and all players that the game allows entry. Since we live in North America, where entitlement is on the rise, people will queue up for any dungeons they feel like doing at the time. Regardless if you tell them their gear is too low. Regardless if you tell them they suck. Who are you to tell them how to play their game and how to spend their time? They will call you elitist, you will call them trash, and nothing will change because this is the internet where opinions will fly but they don't matter because people will continue to do what they've always done: whatever they want. If you don't want to queue up with random PUG groups, there is an option built into the game to make your own group of like minded individuals. It's a simple process and it works just as well. So the next time you want to complain about Player X, remember you CHOSE to be matched with randoms, instead of replying to the 400+ AP only Dungeon#1234 being advertised in looking for group chat, or starting your own.

[Dowra]

30 minutes ago, Yamazen said:

 

 

IMO you are looking at this from an off perspektive. 

The problem here is that the dungeon browser will coble together groups off wildly different experience levels sometimes.

 

If you want to learn a dungeon while you are doing it, thats your choice and that's great. You can do that. No need to watch a guide or anything like that. 

The first time we weent in there with our guild, we did it blind too, on purpose. 

 

But please understand that not everybody in a randomly assigned group is going to feel the same way. 

Agreed, not everyone is going to feel the same way as yourself.  That goes both ways.  Dont /expect/ anyone to be on the same experience level as you when joining a random party.  I can understand someones concerned if someone is far under geared, even if I personally wouldn't be stressing over something like that in most situations, but, expecting people to ruin their first play experiences just  because there some unwritten expectation from a select group that you should have researched, before hand, is close to nonsensical.  That not even casual player mentality.  There are countless "pros" who dont want to look at spoiler content.

 

OP reaction to being questioned about gear was  annoying.  But I seriously am blown away by the following comments of him not looking up the  place before hand : |

[Zerecas]

Gear base does matter in any dungeon in term of effectiveness and efficiency, but what's matter more in Naryu Labyrinth is the understanding of this dungeon itself.

 

I ran with a public party with 5 True profanes and 1 Awakened Pirate (Me) and cleared all the bosses with no reattempt. That's because they know how to deal with the mechanism, they voice out when if they don't understand any of it.

 

Whereas some party members do not even speak a bit and I thought they have past experiences, then turned out not, plus no communication has been made for the second attempt since they're like, 100% anti social so the only option is to leave the party since they don't talk.

 

And then, I have been to a party with 5 Awakened/ True Siren users, and couldn't get pass Be Ido. Some couldn't get pass Raijin and Fujin stage because some of them are not excel at dodge, or some of tankers are rather not tanking for whatever reason it is.

 

Ironically, a party with 5 True Profanes cleared it?

Well geared party doesn't guarantee you a 100% clear.

Then again, Low geared party have higher chance of failing, that's a hard fact but that shouldn't be a reason to justify a minimal cap of the so-called 400 AP trend.

[Zel]

4 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Gear base does matter in any dungeon in term of effectiveness and efficiency, but what's matter more in Naryu Labyrinth is the understanding of this dungeon itself.

 

 

Well, not exactly. Gear is Efficiency, Mechanical Ability/Dungeon Knowledge is Effectiveness. There's a little push/pull both ways, good gear can make up for some mistakes in the run by recovering lost time through raw DPS or burn phases or having extra HP to tank hits. Instance Knowledge can compensate for lower DPS by not screwing up in the first place and doing things more efficently, but there's a raw numerical point where now matter who good you play it the DPS sometimes just isn't there. If you have both you can spend the whole Ba Ido fight getting the bomb buff and running at your teammates and still succeeding, if you have neither you wipe at the Minotaur.

[Bumlife]

IF anyone is not properly geared at least learn the mechanics of a certain dungeon.
If someone points out your gear inefficiency don talk harsh in return because understandably you will be carried.

With peeps saying it is about skill, I believe it is a variable but to be safe and increase percentage of success, gears are being required.
But I am not fond of setting up an AP standard or bringing elitist attitude inside a dungeon.

All in all communication is the key that will merge these things to success.
Let us all chill and enjoy.

[DRGoodfellow]

2 hours ago, Zuzu said:

Couldn't take your post seriously once I read the first sentence.

 

Anyways, you guys do realize that this is pretty much a bait post, right?

It was already unnecessary to bring it to the forums because you'll obviously have two sides that will never agree with each other.

Well bots everywhere, gold spammers and gold whisperers - people that are being fair players being banned, bad bad server EU

People are getting salty and blaming other players

 

Hence my line - If this stuff had been dealt with sooner there would be more cheerful players and less Salty players

[Shukran]

if you didnt put any effort in farming and upgrading your weapon, why shjould i put any effort to invite you and carry you in lab? considering the non-damage-spot you are taking in party?

 

spend time in upgrading your weapon and dungeons will be open for you. rush the content and u will find walls.

[PvPMS]

8 hours ago, vickahh said:

If you read my last forum about his topic, cool :3

 

Anyways, yes I don't have siren weapon yet but I attempted to try the new naryu labrynth dungeon, a 6 man party not 4.

And of course since I have profane someone told me "why do profane queued for this" and yes, everyone in the party had siren except one had pirate.

So I told this guy "it's not about just my weapon even though less dmg, it's how you play....hater"

 

We went in and yes I died once because it's my first time and I didn't know the laser kills you automatically.

BUT this guy giving me crap died 5 times!! LOL guess someone doesn't know how to play their character

I even had to res them and take them away to revive since I am a des.

 

Quick story from a "profane player" ;D

I have bad news for you buddy, people who have siren weapons are considered undergeared as well. In the last labyrinth run I was in, they kept begging me to leave

[Zuzu]

7 minutes ago, DRGoodfellow said:

Well bots everywhere, gold spammers and gold whisperers - people that are being fair players being banned, bad bad server EU

People are getting salty and blaming other players

 

Hence my line - If this stuff had been dealt with sooner there would be more cheerful players and less Salty players

Bots and Gold spammers are essentially a problem for majority of F2P games. If people don't know how to to deal with them for now then that's their own fault.

Unfair bans; Doubt half of the people were "fair" players that claimed they were on the forums but to the actual fair ones that got banned, it was accidental. It happens and hard to be avoided when dealing with bots and gold sellers.

People getting salty and blaming others is a regular thing for any game that has a form of cooperation. I don't even see why you are trying to throw NCsoft the blame.

[Jinjii]

People also forget that a lot of people re-rolled or have 'main alts' that aren't as geared as their main, but they're just as experienced if not moreso that some others they find in Lab groups.  To automatically assume that just because someone stopped at Awakened Siren and decided to pour their money into their accessories (which give more stats than Pirate weapons anyway) is a 'trash noob' is just foolish.

 

However, I do understand geared players not wanting to carry undergeared players who are expecting a carry.  One person won't make a difference if they know what they are doing but for someone to join and expect everyone else to do the work is extremely vexxing.  

 

There's two sides to this argument but at least give the player a chance because that run might be just the one they needed to upgrade their bopae to BE stronger.