Xenofirex

4man unrewarding?

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Upon doing a bunch of naryu4 yesterday it felt very unrewarding a good bit except for of course the final boss (unless you also get screwed there), i know cause it makes things more difficult i feel bosses should feel more rewarding, but 4man bosses only drop 1 naryu coin, 1 LOLMOONWATER CHEST and 3 artifacts, the artifacts are nice but i don't see why 4man shouldn't also include the soul shields, this also is not just for naryu, dont get anything from bosses in poh/bsh4 unless you get lucky on a silver or the item drop(twins wig, etc).  I know that the big thing of 4man is to be a challenge and to go for the costumes but it would be nice to feel like your being well rewarded for the bosses aside form the final in 4man runs. Just food for thought.

 

Curious if other people might feel the same way, because at least the soul shield would be a nice thing to add for them i feel instead of just the 6man.

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Fondue   

That's why we went yesterday only the naryu6 with 4 peps ;)

so all 4 got fast theyre soulshield and everyone had ca. 60 artifacts

because  the 30 stack artifact droped 4 times in 3h of running naryu6 ! 

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I kind of agree Xeno.

The difficulty and time it takes to complete Naryu4Mans is pretty high compared to the rewards (besides the +3 attack power archievement)

 

Just gathering 4 people. who knows how to do the dungeon and has enough hp an AP - often takes 10-20 minutes.

 

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Yea, the difficulty of the dungeons, especially on release is gonna be a big challenge till people learn fights and the soul shield would be a nice start from 4man or even include a few other things or something, just some way so people can feel more rewarded in general. Heck i think a good simple start would be the boxes you get as rewards for beating them, have it give a soulshield which that boss can drop normally. i mean 6man fu/rai box gives 1-8, and they have something similar in NSH24 man where you can get the shields from their box they normally drop in 6man. Also give the boxes a chance to drop an artifact bundle. just anything that isn't to "over the top" sorta thing but just something at least.

Edited by Xenofirex

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Lock6   

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

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16 minutes ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

I think the bosses should at least drop a soul shield like in the 6 man, the moonwater boxes and such are normaly pretty garbage and nobody ever bids on them, and extremely rarely if someone does, not like its worth much period... idk what all kinds of future dungeons may hold but compared to the 6 man drop they should drop a little something extra, gonna pick on naryu for this since its currently the most recent dungeon.

 

 

Each boss current drops in 4man

 

Naryu Coin

Naryu Silver? < not sure if drops

Moonwater Weapon Chest (Blue)

Artifact x3

Stylish/Extravogent Pouch (whoever loots the chest)

 

What could be possibly

 

100%

Soulshield Piece (same per in 6man bosses)

Moonwater Weapon Chest (Purple?)

Artifact x3

Naryu Coin

 

% chance items:

1-2 Artifact Piece

Artifact Bundle

1-2 Moonwater Tear

Naryu Silver

BONUS Soulshield piece

 

Those are just a few things i can think of atm and I'm sure others have ideas on things that could be a chance to drop, But just adding some things in ways to make the 4man dungeons feel more rewarding before the final boss so people aren't just disappointed going through the dungeon and know there's nothing good till the final boss and then you still gotta win, that's the big thing, dungeons will only get stronger and harder and not always will you get the final boss down, so if you cant down the final boss, you leave with nothing and feel like everything you did was a waste of time. Giving players something that's an actual reward per boss is something that should be considered.
 

 

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Can Oa   
27 minutes ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

Put soulshield drop like 6 man , more high drop chance for ornament and 30 stones pouch , and maybe the box for 10 stones who npc sell outside dungeon - this is minimum or no point to do 4man.

Edited by Can Oa

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51 minutes ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

Increase the drop rate of cosmetics. 100+ BSH4 runs and not seen the widow hair/mask drop once is a joke, and I am not the only one.

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43 minutes ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

 

I think Xeno´s suggestion is good.

 

I think the last bosses on B3 (Fujin & Raijin) should drop Moonwater Transformation stone and Gem Hammers as well.

Max 1 gemhammer and Moonwater Transformation Stone per run.

 

This dungeon is the only dungeon, that I don´t expect bots to run - and even less in 4 mans.

I believe it would be quite hard for someone to program the bots to run it successfully.

 

I think this way, there would be a great incesitive to run the dungeon again and again - even though its a time consuming.

 

41 minutes ago, Watandara said:

Increase the drop rate of cosmetics. 100+ BSH4 runs and not seen the widow hair/mask drop once is a joke, and I am not the only one.

 

I´ve seen plenty in less than 100 runs. I only do BSH4 and I´ve seen the wig at least 5 times - last run I bought it around 1G cus nobody else was interested.

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Yeah, ive run 4 man a couple of times and unless the costume pieces drop it feels very unrewarding. I prefer to do 6 man as it also drops soulshields and thus giving me a chance to upgrade the one i allready have with the stats i need for my class.

 

And i approve of the idea of Moonwater Transformation Stone or Gem Hammer drops on the last 2 or last boss. 1 or 2 per dungeon max.

Edited by LavyDunois

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NotRue   

Did 4 man Naryu a couple of times the day after it was released and everyone in the group immediately agreed it was not worth doing.  Here is my problems with 4 mans

 

They dont drop anything to progress your character either through items or gold. If they do the drop rate is so terrible that you would probably just farm the gold and buy it from the market.  The cosmetic drop rates from BSH4 is absolutely terrible, 94 runs and ive never seen the hair or the blindfold. 

 

Fix: Make the drops more rewarding terms of value.  It takes someone 10 min to solo brightstone which gives you 2g current market value.  It takes a group of 4 people 30 min to clear Naryu 4 and it yields almost nothing except outfits thats been recolored 4 times.  If you take the time to run N4 you get no soulshields so people still trying to progress their characters get nothing and dont even want to run them.  I understand that N4 should have had the legendary box but since you guys removed it the loot table should have been adjusted to compensate.  Right now n4 is the worst way to spend your time making the hardest dungeon of this patch a complete waste of time.  As developers you should be encouraging group play not making soloing blue dungeons way more profitable than actually doing harder content.

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Vecejj   

It's just a pure demoralising life sucking experience doing 4man atm, I've lost count of how many runs of BSH4 I've done just to be disappointed everytime.

 

I did 7 runs in a row today, I officially throw in the towel and every run yielded EXACTLY the same drops which were:

 

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Hae mujin machismo

sealed pirate sword / razor

Naryu coin

 

Where are the soul shields? where are the good chests from last boss that each player gets? 

 

 

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yeah, it would be nice if soulshields could drop in 4 man also. the absence of soulshields make it feel like there is no gear based need to do 4 man after you have gotten your moonwater soul. 

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12 minutes ago, Vecejj said:

It's just a pure demoralising life sucking experience doing 4man atm, I've lost count of how many runs of BSH4 I've done just to be disappointed everytime.

 

I did 7 runs in a row today, I officially throw in the towel and every run yielded EXACTLY the same drops which were:

 

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Moonwater chest

Hae mujin machismo

sealed pirate sword / razor

Naryu coin

 

Where are the soul shields? where are the good chests from last boss that each player gets? 

 

 

 

Well the only reason I see it, is for the archievement that unlocks +3 AP boost - which in my oppinion is better than 600 HP or 100 Defence/Accuracy.

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Vecejj   
1 minute ago, Victorion said:

 

Well the only reason I see it, is for the archievement that unlocks +3 AP boost - which in my oppinion is better than 600 HP or 100 Defence/Accuracy.

I'm referring to Bsh4 man :)

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2 minutes ago, Vecejj said:

I'm referring to Bsh4 man :)

 

BSH4 is less important.... it´s an easy dungeon that you can do 2 people - though I prefer 4 ppl because it takes a while. But yeah it doesn´t reward much either.

 

Anyways this thread is about Naryu 4 mans. Which is a different difficulty scaling, and I don´t see anybody being able to solo at HM5 no matter what - BSH has been solo´d.

 

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Vecejj   
Just now, Victorion said:

 

BSH4 is less important.... it´s an easy dungeon that you can do 2 people - though I prefer 4 ppl because it takes a while. But yeah it doesn´t reward much either.

 

Anyways this thread is about Naryu 4 mans. Which is a different difficulty scaling, and I don´t see anybody being able to solo at HM5 no matter what - BSH has been solo´d.

 

The OP was talking about naryu, which is 4man too and how bad the drops are, BSH4man is the same in terms of how bad the drops are. The guy from NCsoft even asked how 4man dungeons could be improve loot wise, maybe I should have quoted him to avoid confusion.

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3 minutes ago, Vecejj said:

The OP was talking about naryu, which is 4man too and how bad the drops are, BSH4man is the same in terms of how bad the drops are. The guy from NCsoft even asked how 4man dungeons could be improve loot wise, maybe I should have quoted him to avoid confusion.

 

Difficulty should scale with rewards.

 

BSH4 is an easy dungeon that has a chance of dropping Secret Technique books. Currently one of the most prized possesions is the BM-book that improves Lightning Draw - marketprice around 350G. Don´t compare the 2 - or say that BSH doesn´t have good rewards.

Edited by Victorion

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Dimirij   
6 hours ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

The idea of soulshield drop is not so good . Why? because for ss u go do 6 man .. only would be viable if it drops a granted max stat one (main and basic max obviously the secondary still random but max too )
The transformation stone one is bad  cause why craft it than ...
Moonwater tear is okay  ,the relic bundle  ,the gem hammer or even a sparkling hexa gem chest (not the diamond one ) would be nice + a soulstone bag that can contain 1-25 same as the lower ranked one in pvp shop
My suggestion is make the last quest chest drop a special currency(name it costume coin) . Based on the dungeon difficulity the amount is different . Example 4 man Blackram chest gives 1, 4 man bsh gives 2  and 4 man labyrint 3 or 4 .  U can exchange this currency at an npc like for the new "soulstone" but for the costumes u can earn from these three (Blackram, BSH, NL) 4 man dungeons.(maybe even for the legendary hongmoon skill too , account bind one ). So there wont be more bad drop runs because u would get ur so wanted costumes from these coins. =Hard work pays off  and no more RNG Jesus pray.

Hope this one sounds good :)
 

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Serbine   

Since most are saying Soul Shield pieces should drop in 4man. would having the max version "or atleast 2nd and best drop roll only"  of said pieces as guarantee drop be good?, atleast I think it would be an incentive to doing 4man. 

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11 hours ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

The best feedback that I can give, is really to repeat what others have said with my own take on it. Personally, I have no issues with gear being acquired via the upgrade system. However, the fact that the hardest content in the game has no gear even comparable to my starter gear that is upgraded, is a big slap in the face. For example, I cannot understand why there are no good gear drops. Why should I even do hard content if all I need to do is grind dailies for mats to upgrade? 

 

And finally, the grinding for mats is mind-numbing and expensive. I am aware that I should just go make gold and all that, and I totally agree. However, I really don't have the time every day to grind dailies for Soul Stones, and then grind out dungeons for Naryu coins, and then grind some more dungeons for the mats to make moonwater stones, and then pray I have enough gold to even upgrade the weapon. 

 

Basically, all I am asking is for another way to progress my character. For me, I would prefer this to come in the form of the hardest content having the best rewards. Crafted stuff can be super awesome too, just not quite as awesome as the gear you get from beating the hardest content in the game. At this point in my life, just being able to say I beat something hard is not enough reason to do it. I prefer a reward attached to it. At least in a video game.

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10 hours ago, Lock6 said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for your feedback, we're always for ways to improve the game and we know rewards and progression are a big part of that.

 

If you have any suggestions for how the 4 man drops could be changed, please do let us know and it will be taken into consideration when we're reviewing them.

 

Thanks again.

 

I left the game because the dungeon content was going long - not wide. What I mean by that is... I was in the unfortunate plateau of having farmed the entirety of 4 man poh (both outfits, the hair, the eyepatch, chef hat) but I wasn't strong enough to 4 man BSH, let alone Naryu. As a destroyer with less than optimum skill, I was stuck at floor 5 of the tower. So Poh was old hat, the blue dungeons made me snore, and the mushin tower made me want to ragequit the game. Not to mention that repeating solo dungeons over and over just made me sad and lonely. Mushin is a brilliant idea - but for people like me... Well, we need it as an optional kind of achievement thing, not holding necessary pieces to progress through the game.

 

There just aren't enough variety of quests to farm gold so we can bypass that middle ground without it feeling like sandpaper to the skull. So that leaves us with one other option: we need more purple dungeons. Something between Supply Chain 4 and BSH 4 - aside from BSH 6. The actual rewards for BSH 6 (or even 4's drop rate, for that matter) are not enough incentive to make me do it thirty or forty times until I grind either my skill or my gold count high enough (and like I said... my skill is not the greatest... I'm a mediocre gamer with a lot of tenacity... and I've been through four different guilds trying to find anyone kind enough to farm with me until I master it).

 

You keep releasing content that's more difficult than the current content without adding more options for those of us who haven't maxed out yet. It's like an exercise in masochism, watching all the shiny toys you can't play with while you're stuck with the same rubber ball hour after hour after hour...

 

TL;DR:

 

Please give us more content between Supply Chain and BSH. There simply isn't enough to keep less skilled gamers engaged on the grind to max gear.

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Teffy   

Or atleast add medal bundle or few to drop often(the one that you need for soul/gem craft).Atm we have some fugly costumes and thats it...I went 14 times seen twice the wind god fugly costume and twice the thunder god fugly costume.Nothing else drop there...I want to be rewarded with something better then some fugly costume from somewhat dificult dungeon.Well I mean is the dificult lvl 45 dungeon.Soo is ok to remove legendary weapon drop box but replace it with something cool...

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vita   

To be honest none of the 4-man dungeon are rewarding, drop rate are terribly low. Most of the time only the last boss drop something that is worth the run but then drop rate is too low. Every time my group run some 4-man, by the end when we see the loots that drop it's always "well that was a waste of time". Rare drop on bosses are fine, especially things like costume or HM skills books, but the normal loots for all the bosses in 4-man should be rewarding as well, a silly blue moonwater chest is not rewarding at all, most of the time no one wants to even bid for it because it's quite useless.

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