Meerkat

Animation cancelling... is dumb.

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Daemonk   

I actually agree with most of what you said. Animation canceling in this game is kinda dumb, as it requires minimal situational awareness and pretty much devolves in to a spam fest. It basically just requires the player to perform some pointless action in order to maximize DPS. It's like me telling players that they have to stomp their feet on the ground every 5 seconds while playing to gain access to higher damaging skills. And your point about latency being a factor doesn't help the case.

 

That being said, there is one aspect of animation canceling that people don't really talk about. There is a strange satisfaction when you perform it correctly. It's not satisfying because it is something that takes a lot of skill and you can do it correctly. It's satisfying in a rhythmic way, similar to dancing or listening to music. Whether that satisfaction is enough to keep it in the game is obviously subjective.

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pvping as sin without animation cancel lmao,
Don't use it if you don't likeit and don't cry about people who does this.
If you think having lower ping is advantage only for this game,you must've never played any mmos before.
There is no unfair advantage of animation cancel since everyone is able to do it.

Edited by HailNKill

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Meerkat   
9 minutes ago, HailNKill said:

There is no unfair advantage of animation cancel since everyone is able to do it.

 

1 hour ago, Tyranei said:

As a Blade Dancer, its a well-understood fact that ping can vastly affect our animation-cancelling during PvP.  Around 50 ping can mean the difference of an instance or two of a rotation of LMB/F, which can be a huge loss of damage.  I have the best possible internet available in my area and my ping bounces between 50 to 160.  I don't have the option of making that better (as will apply to the majority of Americans, our internet choices are pretty bad compared to other countries).

 

Everybody is able to do it.*

 

* Terms and restrictions apply.

 

Lol?

 

22 minutes ago, Daemonk said:

That being said, there is one aspect of animation canceling that people don't really talk about. There is a strange satisfaction when you perform it correctly. It's not satisfying because it is something that takes a lot of skill and you can do it correctly. It's satisfying in a rhythmic way, similar to dancing or listening to music. Whether that satisfaction is enough to keep it in the game is obviously subjective.

 

Can definitely agree on that point.  Objectively, that's not a good reason to keep a mechanic.  But that's what design is for.  Better mechanics can be developed.

 

So when's somebody actually going to take me up on my argument and prove to me Blade & Soul's implementation of animation cancelling is on par with animation cancelling as in other, actually competitive games?

Edited by Meerkat

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Its a nice thought but it will never happen.

 

Blade and soul isn't a mmo its a fighting game really and if you remove animation canceling you basically destroy every class.

 

Kfm for example would go from the hardest class to master to absolute garbage that couldn't even kill a npc.

 

Also keep in mind this is a korean mmo and nothing you ever say will change any of the game play or mechanics.

 

Hell the actual main bns is literally pure p2w to the point of where you need thousands of dollars to get the best weapon in the game etc.

 

Also there's no chance they will even consider it because it will ruin them as an esport which makes them who know hows many millions.

 

Lastly ani canceling requires skill and isnt just button mashing because you not only need rhythm and reflex's but you also need to monitor every move the enemy makes and counter it with your own the split second it happens.

 

If they removed it the game would be dead and the classes would be laughably imbalanced with no real way to rebalance them without doubling or tripling the base skills and no one wants to combo 20 or 30+ skills just to do some damage.

Edited by ShadowRose

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Shukran   

i dont like the perfect timing anicancel needs

first because i am bad

second because it is ping-centric, so even if i master it at a certain ping i need to relearn if ping change.

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Purestic   

I agree with the ping aspect, but the solution wouldn't be to remove anicanceling, it would be to improve servers.

I don't see why you would want to remove anicanceling under normal conditions. Sins for example would be absolutely useless dmg wise without anicanceling.

 

And I don't really understand what's so difficult about it? It doesn't take that much to be decent at it, it just takes a lot to be very good at it.

For example:

 

 

If this would be the requirement, I'd understand the whole argument but noone on earth wants you to be this good at it.

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Brainy   

OP keeps showing that other game and how you need to be fast and exact...  Well, you have the same in BnS.

Google "blade and soul tech chase". It has nothing to do with animation cancel and it's basically a very short window of opportunity where you can CC someone. This matters more than any form of ani cancel. 

 

Clear example is Jaesung Lee, the guy from the above video. He made it to diamond. Playing from Korea. On his alt... Which means that you can do extremely well even with high ping.

 

Also, in arena you have way higher fps than anywhere else. One scenery and only 2 characters to render. If you have low fps there, you most likely can't play the game properly in any other zone. Can't even start talking about ani cancel if your game runs at 10 fps to begin with.

 

If you are crying about animation canceling in PvE, then I have nothing more to say.

 

P.S. Stop comparing BnS to other games.

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Shukran   

i would LOVE to improve anicance al jasung explain. sadly, as KFM, there is NO bot permastunned/permadazed, hence i not only have to improve my anicancel, but if done badly, i have to stun/daze opponent too.

 

which is sad because in PvE stuns and dazes have shorter duration.

 

hence, give me a permastunned bot please!

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How about we remove animation cancelling just based on the fact that its screws immersion. Your characters body magically moving into a different position and preforming a different move isnt really good design.

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Purestic   
4 minutes ago, Erikkustrife said:

How about we remove animation cancelling just based on the fact that its screws immersion. Your characters body magically moving into a different position and preforming a different move isnt really good design.

Who cares? If you want immersion, play skyrim or something. No offense.

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I don't mind it. The issue is that it's become part of the meta so you're never going to avoid it at this point.

 

It's comparable to wave-dashing in smash bros; an unintended discovery that's turned into a staple gameplay mechanic. 

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Skenn   

As a fighting game player I really don't get why you're comparing BnS cancels with Guilty Gear RC. BnS cancels are closer to any kind of normal or special cancels that you would perform during most kind of combos in an airdasher kind of fighting game. And just like in most fighting games, if you can't perform the best combo (because you lack good execution skills or you have a bad ping), just do something easier. Indeed the ping disadvantage seems unfair, but it's not specific to animation cancels, with a bad ping you have less time to react to various things, which is at least as important as anim-cancels.

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Yamyatos   

I personally like animation cancelling. Also the spammy feel of it - if it works properly and fast (ping) it feels great. Also, most classes dont use ani canceling in pvp.

 

Other than that, i totally agree. It should NOT be tied to latency.. that's one of the most stupid things in this game. Also the really spammy ones, like assassin, start to hurt after a time.. which is the reason i stopped playing my assassin as a main. 

 

They should at least implement some sort of action buffer that collected key presses and bundles them into packages and then sends them to the server so that animation cancelling is decided by the sheed order of skills and not the time it arrives at the server. I really dislike that some players cant play certain classes at all in pve cuz of this. I also dislike that most of the time it feels sluggish from a server side (since my ping is stable and ok - even tho my ping to their servers is higher than it should be. I live in germany. No excuse for pings over 30 lol.)

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The game bring combos, mechanics,  really good skill effects and with animation cancel only use two buttons.

 

I guess the developers of the game have to be really disappointed.

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Taemek   

Try living in OCE/SEA and ani cancelling anything with >200ms and tell me how you go.

 

What's sad about ani cancelling is, they build boss fights around it, Mushin's tower for one and other dungeons/instances to come.

Edited by Taemek

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ShiroUmi   

Fun thing is animation cancel wasn't even a legit feature to start with, it was a bug/exploit that got legalized by the devs cause they were too damn lazy to fix it.

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This was a really well thought-out and written post.  Nice job.  But I don't take the competitive PvP seriously in this game (in part because of ani-cancel) so I don't think I'm the target audience.

 

The greatest barrier here is that Team Bloodlust isn't likely to be interested in improving the combat system in this way, and the fact that the game has been out nearly 4 years (in KR) probably (definitely) means it's too late to do anything about it.  It's a great comment/suggestion but I wouldn't expect anything to come out of it until/unless we start talking sequels.

 

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Zel   
10 minutes ago, ShiroUmi said:

Fun thing is animation cancel wasn't even a legit feature to start with, it was a bug/exploit that got legalized by the devs cause they were too damn lazy to fix it.

 

 

That's literally every NCSoft game though. It's not a bug, it's a "feature". Certain classes in Aion weren't even viable without animation cancelling, and by extension, incredibly low ping (Assassin, what a surprise). 

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7 hours ago, PvPMS said:

I play Destroyer on max graphics on a laptop with college wifi, and I have absolutely no problem animation cancelling outside of world bosses. Using ping as an excuse to get rid of a core skill for destroyers is a joke. In fact, I find any game that doesn't implement clipping/animation cancelling for dps rather dry. If it bothers you so much, just play a class that isn't dependent on it for dps instead of trying to ruin the game for the rest of us.

You have clearly no idea what are you talking about, i am not sure of my ping in this game, but in GunZ i was able to perform all the ani-cancel moves, because that game is Client Side, but here in Blade and Soul, all our actions are Server Side, so if you click and you have high latency, your character wont perform that movement after X amount of seconds, which mean, that Ani-cancel wont work because the Right click wont be avaible for use because the server think that the skill is still being used, so it dont matter how much you try it wont happen, and belive me, Ani-cancel in GunZ was WAY harder than this one, this BnS anicancel is like the most basic move in GunZ which was only hit/block in a single jump.

 

I am not against the ani-cancel, i fact, i like it since i love gunz so much and that whole game was based on ani-cancel, but it wont be fun until they make this game Client Side instead of Server Side, because right now, sometimes when i cast one skill, it happen after 1 or 2 seconds of delay, and sometimes they happen instantly, so only when the server decide that i can do my Ani-cancel, i can do it normally, is very easy with normal latency, it dont requiere skill to learn at all since is too basic, it only requiere latency, and i come from a game that requiere you to do at least 8 different types of ani-cancel in less than 1 second in order to beat good players (hit/block/dash/shot>shot/jukedash/climb/airbone....yes you had to perform all those actions in less than one second in GunZ at the same time, and there was no latency issues)

 

To be honest, playing gunz for so many years made me get a soft parkinson...which is the reason why i stoped playing it and my parkinson havent happened again since i left it, the amount of ani-cancel requiered in that game was just too insane...so dont tell me this BnS ani-cancel requiere skill because is a joke.

Edited by BattleKat

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Meerkat   

I'll have a reply for everybody later.  I've made an edit to the first post to clarify I'm not asking to make the game easier, I'm asking to streamline the game by cutting out excess bullshit fat to level the playing field and make the game more competitive.

 

I'm also well aware there's almost no chance the devs will change the games.  Koreans can certainly make mobiles, but they can't make games for shit.  This is a thought exercise, more than anything.

 

In the meantime, bump.

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I don't see anything wrong with it, provided the speciment at hand isn't a plebian noobitus-patient and doesen't macro it. The principle is exactly the same as in Reload Cancel what likes of BF and COD support.

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Kanomas   

People are just good enough they learned how to do ani cancel, I can do 3rf without the ani cancel BS, and I'm plat rank, and a lot of good players i've met have no idea how to do ani cancel, so basically no I think its fine as is, with or without it, if you don't know it, play around it, thats all that matters, you can't get ani canceled by a destroyer as a KFM if you freeze yourself during their buff (as one example).

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Shirou   

Nobody will remove "anicancel" just because you can't do it.

Deal with it, really.

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In Blade & Soul, animation cancelling is the default action.  There’s no thought involved, just carpal tunnel inducing key mashing.  Since when does mindless key mashing improve a game?  Never

Op, you realize that animation cancelling is not as easy as mashing your keyboard right? Try it on destroyer, mash the button and you will be out of chi, heck this isnt even kfm's 3rf yet.

 

As for macro, no they aren't good in PVP. As far as i know, ncsoft's cheap server has fluctuating pings. By using macro, you will actually perform worse than someone who performs combo and adjust his combo with visual cue. Macro will lock the character in stupid animation when the pings fluctuates, and as a result of that you will miss chain cc.

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