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Smoq

Current state of PvP and PvE viablity

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Smoq   

Hi, as we know, we got the nerfed version of warlock so the question is how is Warlock in pvp and pve in current patch?

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PvE is "okay", if you like to play an immobile turret and spam shit on your enemies.

 

PvP its the worst you can imagine. They nerfed the Q of the pet into Ground Zero and the E is like "meh". Without the pet active we dont even have any Q or E, whats the saddest on that story.

Beside that you have excactly 1 (ONE) Iframe, while other classes have like 6? and that one isnt even relying. The SS is a bad joke compared to others and the block is the most useless shit ive ever seen. Not that almost anybody can easily break that wiener, you cant even move while you block, just like the bm or kfm. Beside we are either bm nor kfm.....

 

Now to the "real" issues of this class:

  • You have to stand still to summon your pet. You can even be interrupted by a low ping player. Sometimes you want to spawn it, it doesnt come off, but its on cd nontheless -> Can go afk.
  • The Pet has the dumbest AI you can possible imagine. It triggers EVERY, for crickets sake E V E R Y  single counter anytime. You spawn it and have an active target? TRIGGER! You push your E and have an active target? TRIGGER!  You push your E and you dont have an active target, cause you looked to the side, 50% chance that it does what? Right! TTTTTRRRIIIGGGGGEEEEERRRRRRR!!!111!!1!!!1!  Beside that its stationary. It moves not a single inch of its own. Paint you a picture of a Summoner with 50% of his skills and 50% of those skills dont work properly and his cat is a 500lb heavy, asthmatic hunchbag with parkison syndrom. Thats the Thrall.
  • When you push Leech, you get stunned by 0.5 second. Yes, you read right. You stun yourself, because you get stucked in the animation time. Great, isnt it?
  • Did i mentioned our wonderful, unique pet?
  • We have 0 utility. Q and E is quite everything, and without the pet we dont even have Q and E. Winning against a fm on the same skill level is almost impossible, and even a bad one can just faceroll you. Perma freeze, Grip, Perma freeze, Prison, Perma freeze, Frost Armor, Perma freeze, Q and E all the time, Perma freeze and all mighty knows what else. Same goes for kfm, destroyers, assassins, blade cancers. Not quite that much, but still 100% more and more reliable than we have. And dont get me started with Soul Fighters.
  • Now comes the best part: The Wombo Combo. Theoretically its Time Warp and spam the shit outta your keyboard while the enemy is pre-cc´d. right? Right! Except it doesnt work in the cruel practical world. In the real world YOU get cc´d, while time warp runs into the nexus. Or you get griped out by fm or blade cancer. Or fm just pops his frost armor. Or a bm just blocks everything. Or any other class just iframes 85% of your "op" dmg. Maybe you want it simple. Then how about just run away. Yes, you read right again. Just run away from the warlock. That combo is so predictable that it almost hurts. Enemy: "Hmmm, he just pressed his E and now he uses his leech on me. That means Time Warp is incoming. I guess i just walk in that corner there and watch that fancy animation." Dont know whats sadder. The fact that this is actual the case, or that we cant do a shit against it.
  • Dont even dare to ask about tag team. Just Dont.

There is surely more, but that are the critical points. On the lvl 45 patch its actually quite possible to make a good rank solo, mostly cause almost 90% of the players have no freaking idea about the warlock and think the big clock under your pet is some sort of cosmetic purchase from the hongmoon shop, and 10% cause nobody has access to the hongmoon skills, which means you dont get THAT hard countered, but still having a much harder time than anyone else to get your points.

 

If the game hits the lvl 50 Patch and its going to be like in asia nowadays, without any changes in the good way, youre gonna be sorry that you ever created that pile of crap and wasted your time with it.

 

Edited by DeaDBreaD

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Smoq   

Seems like you really don't want ppl that plays warlock :O...

But okay, I have one question for you:

Which one have more dps and more utility - force master or warlock? Ofc in pve.

 

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Depends on the content, the Mobs, the Boss, the situation.

 

Overall the fm because of said utility and the same dmg if not higher played properly.

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34 minutes ago, Smoq said:

Seems like you really don't want ppl that plays warlock :O...

But okay, I have one question for you:

Which one have more dps and more utility - force master or warlock? Ofc in pve.

 

 

FM both dps and util better.

 

DPS reasons:
Warlock needs that HM skillbook, even then, they do not outperform FM in terms of raw damage. So if you don't even have that skill book, a good WL will not out dps a good FM. (assuming you are proficient in both, and play burn FM with new patch dragonblaze).

 

Utility reasons:
FM have divine veil (blocks range for team) and Freeze, that invuls the team against big damage. Even in current content, FM's with good awareness can save entire teams with a good freeze time (example: CCs on cooldown for Mane and no one can stop that aoe, freeze, so team doesn't get aoe'ed, freeze removes Dots too, good for) (extra example: Tag/OWPvP, multiple people trying to burst down/ aerial combo your poor teammate, come in, freeze, their tag/combos wasted)

 

WLs get a DPS buff, but... If you group is already competent with their class, which they should be, DPS isn't the issue, it is usually survival, that one-misshap that kills off 1 teammate in 4men is terrible consequence, so personally I would choose defensive utility of FM over WL.

 

Why play WL then?

 Because why not?

  1. Best looking skills.
  2. An entirely unique combat system (cooldown based + stationary artillery).
  3. Good to have in 6men or 24men or OWPvP (if you have another FM alrd, why not have a DPS buffer too).
  4. Has a giant pet to distract
  5. NUKES, no one nukes like a WL, the Dragoncall bombardment on the screen makes your hair stand, the big numbers too (not the best dps, but definitely best for seeing big numbers)
  6. If you had been playing melee all along, getting steamrolled by summoners, it is time to give them a taste of their own medicine, bigger sized.

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Smoq   

My hype for WL has fall down :D... I played it to the 22 lvl and I noticed that he seems to be dealing low dmg and is super squishy, Than the summon looke a bit irreliable and in comparision to summoners cat it was much worse.

Only thing that really was nice was this Dragoncall, yeah, it hiting for so much at 22 lvl which only 60~ AP was something, but still the cast time/the strange mechanic when it says it's casted instantly but you still need to wait for it to deal dmg (for like 1-2 seconds) was annoying and also it has pretty long coldown for spell that should be (probably) main dps skill. Also how can i use it in pvp, everyone would cancel the channeling of it (or skills that makes it instant).

Also almost every spell is casted stationary... you can't move when blocking, you can't move when summoning, you can't move when you cast your mains skills... how should it be used in pvp.

 

So after this thoughts I made decision to post the question on forum.. and the fact that i got such negative response makes me wonder if this class s worst of all or just not so good as fm (my main is BD... and I will say this - IT'S DMG SUCKS HARD!)

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nothing can outdps a FM so I don't even know why you guys are saying "omg this is bad". That being said, it is REALLY not bad at all in PvE since WL is both the 2nd highest dps and also the most powerful group buffer.  Time warp and awakening are amazing and the most devastating combination you can use in the game, especially with a KFM in the group.

 

PvP the class is a bit weak. That being said it doesn't prevent Korea in its actual patch to have WL in the top 20. Look at Nadwah's videos on Youtube, they ll give you a good idea of what to expect. It's not a faceroll class and just like BM, being on the higher level will feel more rewarding

 

As for the user above, the fun begin at lvl 24 when you get your V skill.  From then its so retarded to lvl up you won't believe it yourself

Edited by Sygmaelle

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Renesmee   

Based on what I have read, the class is mediocre. But fun to play. Worth playing just for that reason, IMO.

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Rynz0r   
3 hours ago, Smoq said:

he seems to be dealing low dmg

You sure youre playing same game? Cause with warlock I obliterate everything faster than all my other classes to that point

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Seseshan   
24 minutes ago, Smoq said:

Yes I am, only dragoncall deals good dmg.

Wat does V key?

Wingstorm, and it shreds mobs to pieces. Pretty nice burst skill if you ask me.

 

Edit:  brought to you by the missing letter "R"

Edited by Seseshan

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rocdog   

It mostly depends on the player.  People thought warlocks were crap in WoW until Mute and a few others came along.  Is it currently on the OP swing of the MMO class pendulum?  No.  That would be the Soul FOTM.

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warlock is AMAZING when you know how to string the abilities together, in pvp you want to spec into dragon helix, combine that with a specced wingstorm and rupture and you demolish in pvp, you have to level it up enough to get enough points and unlock all your abilities though. now imagine all that + a time warp and you have the ability to keep constant pressure on your enemy. it was slow and tiring at first but it quickly snowballs into something stronger.

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mihwK   

You have burst and a party buffs that's it.

 

If you want to know DPS; you have to comapare it in a more realistic way, as in, 5-10minutes of DPSing.

Other classes might not have those big numbers, but they do smaller faster numbers. In the end the Warlock is not better, but they are a clas gannon. DPS is not the issue the class has, it's the crazy lack in survivability without getting something to make up for it.

 

Think about this for a second, WL is a glas cannon, they really lack ALOT of defensive capabilitys, but they don't make up for it for beeing the best DPS hands down. They are not #1 when it comes to DPS, but they really lack defensive stuff, which begs to ask, why?

 

Honestly, I have a 41 WL to see if I like the class, and I feel like I would do a huge mistake swapping over from the Summoner. With Warlock you get the feeling like you have limits, since again, you really lack defensive stuff. They have to do something about the defensives, the class needs more ways to protect itself, just like all the other classes do.

 

For me as of now, WL seems very underpowered. There is really nothing except of the group buff you will do better than others. In essence you are hurting yourself playing this class without getting anything in return except for a harder time surviving things. Big crits don't mean more DMG.

 

Warlock will do a 100'000k crit, in 2 seconds.

Summoner will do 50'000k crit, in 1 second.

FM etc.

 

At the end of the day you are even with the other classes when it comes to DPS; but you are much, much weaker when it comes to protecting yourself and survivng things. It feels very unrewarding to be honest. Even in situations where you make mistake, recovering from that said mistake is also harder compared to the other classes. You are a glas cannon who isn't the best DPS. I really hope they aren't going to go with more DPS, the class just needs help in the defensive area. Give them more ways to protect themselfs.

Edited by mihwK

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SixGod   

I was reading through BNS CN forum today, that there was a post about being WL and even with maxed legendary weapon, its nearly impossible to pass Mushin tower Lv20, Because WL Lack of hard CC (which I don't get it cause I thought WL got lots of cc but then those ppl in CN got much more experience with WL so I don't know). In contrast, a SIN with NOT MAXed Legendary weapon can kill Mushin tower Lv20 in 35 SECONDS!

 

 

But then in CN its P2W, its not about what class you play but how much $ you got. A S3 Legendary weapon cost just below 10k chinese yuan which is about 1.5k USD. So.......

Edited by SixGod

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I play MMO's to play with other people in groups (i.e. dungeons & raiding) and could care less about PvP. So, I am glad this class has good party buffs and fun gameplay.

 

Once the "newness" of WL wears off I think we'll be like KFMs...highly desirable in groups and not many of us (who are skilled & geared) around. Works for me.

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14 minutes ago, D6Damager said:

I play MMO's to play with other people in groups (i.e. dungeons & raiding) and could care less about PvP. So, I am glad this class has good party buffs and fun gameplay.

 

Once the "newness" of WL wears off I think we'll be like KFMs...highly desirable in groups and not many of us (who are skilled & geared) around. Works for me.

Unless they buff warlocks and that, i hope, will happen :)

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On 03/03/2016 at 5:05 PM, Rynz0r said:

You sure youre playing same game? Cause with warlock I obliterate everything faster than all my other classes to that point

 

Try doing at Mushin Floor 7.  He will wreck WLs because we have barely any CCs to control him and only out burst lol!

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*cough* 

Is now the best time to mention I'm already almost platinum rank on my lock in 1v1 arena? Not even level 40 yet and I'm hovvering on the high end of 1800 elo.

 

Look for 'Therinfuzzles' in the rank listing, lock is viable in arena but requires a bait/punish heavy playstyle to succeed. It plays far differently than the other classes I have played in arena (a blade dancer around the same elo: Therinfluffles, and a summoner in low diamond: Therinfloofs)

 

It has its draw backs but it can be strong. I could consider it to be the 'kfm of ranged classes' in the vaguest, loosest of turns, even has the crap matchups vs. FM's and surprisingly decent vs summoner given how quick you can destroy cats.

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Eremoo   
11 hours ago, Therinfloofs said:

*cough* 

Is now the best time to mention I'm already almost platinum rank on my lock in 1v1 arena? Not even level 40 yet and I'm hovvering on the high end of 1800 elo.

 

Look for 'Therinfuzzles' in the rank listing, lock is viable in arena but requires a bait/punish heavy playstyle to succeed. It plays far differently than the other classes I have played in arena (a blade dancer around the same elo: Therinfluffles, and a summoner in low diamond: Therinfloofs)

 

It has its draw backs but it can be strong. I could consider it to be the 'kfm of ranged classes' in the vaguest, loosest of turns, even has the crap matchups vs. FM's and surprisingly decent vs summoner given how quick you can destroy cats.

I wouldn't be too confident that WL is good in arena. You used the word viable, and that's fine, even BM is "viable". But good? No way. Once people learn that all they have to do is iframe your time warp burst, your damage will be really lacking. And without decent iframes or healing everyone is just going to trample you. This is obviously my opinion but I've been watching a warlock stream for 2-3 weeks in high mmr Japan and Korea and the class really struggles against people who know what to do

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in korea actually warlock is one of the worst class , because of lacking healing and CC .

Before like in the video where you see warlock against fm in one of the championship warlock was OP but now it's the opposite .

 

he is easy to counter warlock because of the flashy skill and the time  to cast .

Once everybody know the pattern they will destroy warlock because he is very simple .

and the thrall is not very good in pvp , everybody who know how to SS and undrstand thrall mechanic will know what to do against warlock

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Nyameria   

can't realy tell what i think of warlock right now

nukes make fun bur surviability is realy low

 

its the first class i died in that monster arena in moonwater on one of the first mosnters.

why?

because i could not run outside of that magic trap circles (ss was on coldown) which had nothing to do with the monster but killed me instant because warlocks are just class cannons

 

 

but on the other hand i defeaded that old kung fu master guy with just lvl 42   i'm confused

Edited by Nyameria

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Metalicz   
On 3/4/2016 at 3:17 PM, Rhokdelar180 said:

 

Try doing at Mushin Floor 7.  He will wreck WLs because we have barely any CCs to control him and only out burst lol!

I haven't had any problem with floor 7. Junghado is quite easy. We have plenty of CC to deal with him and damage if with using Dragon Helix. 

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Nitefire   
On 03/03/2016 at 5:10 AM, DeaDBreaD said:

PvE is "okay", if you like to play an immobile turret and spam shit on your enemies.

 

PvP its the worst you can imagine. They nerfed the Q of the pet into Ground Zero and the E is like "meh". Without the pet active we dont even have any Q or E, whats the saddest on that story.

Beside that you have excactly 1 (ONE) Iframe, while other classes have like 6? and that one isnt even relying. The SS is a bad joke compared to others and the block is the most useless shit ive ever seen. Not that almost anybody can easily break that wiener, you cant even move while you block, just like the bm or kfm. Beside we are either bm nor kfm.....

 

Now to the "real" issues of this class:

  • You have to stand still to summon your pet. You can even be interrupted by a low ping player. Sometimes you want to spawn it, it doesnt come off, but its on cd nontheless -> Can go afk.
  • The Pet has the dumbest AI you can possible imagine. It triggers EVERY, for crickets sake E V E R Y  single counter anytime. You spawn it and have an active target? TRIGGER! You push your E and have an active target? TRIGGER!  You push your E and you dont have an active target, cause you looked to the side, 50% chance that it does what? Right! TTTTTRRRIIIGGGGGEEEEERRRRRRR!!!111!!1!!!1!  Beside that its stationary. It moves not a single inch of its own. Paint you a picture of a Summoner with 50% of his skills and 50% of those skills dont work properly and his cat is a 500lb heavy, asthmatic hunchbag with parkison syndrom. Thats the Thrall.
  • When you push Leech, you get stunned by 0.5 second. Yes, you read right. You stun yourself, because you get stucked in the animation time. Great, isnt it?
  • Did i mentioned our wonderful, unique pet?
  • We have 0 utility. Q and E is quite everything, and without the pet we dont even have Q and E. Winning against a fm on the same skill level is almost impossible, and even a bad one can just faceroll you. Perma freeze, Grip, Perma freeze, Prison, Perma freeze, Frost Armor, Perma freeze, Q and E all the time, Perma freeze and all mighty knows what else. Same goes for kfm, destroyers, assassins, blade cancers. Not quite that much, but still 100% more and more reliable than we have. And dont get me started with Soul Fighters.
  • Now comes the best part: The Wombo Combo. Theoretically its Time Warp and spam the shit outta your keyboard while the enemy is pre-cc´d. right? Right! Except it doesnt work in the cruel practical world. In the real world YOU get cc´d, while time warp runs into the nexus. Or you get griped out by fm or blade cancer. Or fm just pops his frost armor. Or a bm just blocks everything. Or any other class just iframes 85% of your "op" dmg. Maybe you want it simple. Then how about just run away. Yes, you read right again. Just run away from the warlock. That combo is so predictable that it almost hurts. Enemy: "Hmmm, he just pressed his E and now he uses his leech on me. That means Time Warp is incoming. I guess i just walk in that corner there and watch that fancy animation." Dont know whats sadder. The fact that this is actual the case, or that we cant do a shit against it.
  • Dont even dare to ask about tag team. Just Dont.

There is surely more, but that are the critical points. On the lvl 45 patch its actually quite possible to make a good rank solo, mostly cause almost 90% of the players have no freaking idea about the warlock and think the big clock under your pet is some sort of cosmetic purchase from the hongmoon shop, and 10% cause nobody has access to the hongmoon skills, which means you dont get THAT hard countered, but still having a much harder time than anyone else to get your points.

 

If the game hits the lvl 50 Patch and its going to be like in asia nowadays, without any changes in the good way, youre gonna be sorry that you ever created that pile of crap and wasted your time with it.

 

Deadbread is pretty much spot on with his summary of Warlocks especially after the latest patch has unlocked lvl 50 (hongmoon 10) and a lot of our hongmoon skills .... We were promised a "Glass Cannon" / "Artillery Turret" class and thanks to the knee jerk NERF NERF NERF reaction of the devs/NCsoft after the January world championships WHAT WE GOT was a broken limp glass noodle. Forget Artillery your warlock is more of a stationary potato gun and there are any number of classes that will out dps it regularly.

 

I have played my Warlock to lvl 50 hongmoon lvl 8 (almost 9 now) and i have almost all of the rubbish secret techniques unlocked and ive tried both helix and dragoncall builds in PVE and PVP with Soulburn and Time Warp and im just sorry to say that the class is simply broken and does not live up to the hype that was created for it. The class is entirely crit dependant with your biggest dps skill dragoncall and your bread and butter bombarment skill begging for crits just to keep a sustained dps rotation going. If this class didnt have soulburn to buff parties im sure a lot of super pro fast dungeon clearing parties would simply not want one around.

 

Dont even get me started on PVP with this class ... my lvl 46 gimped Blade Dancer which doesnt even have the Lightning Draw skill book can get to gold rank with its eyes closed and its pants being at the dry cleaners (ok admittely i dont play past gold cause i only do arena for the zen bean pouches and most of my farming is with guildies in tag), the lvl 50 HM 8 warlock with all skill books that matter atm on the other hand feels like a lame one legged duck swatting at flies compared to my Blade Dancer, with FM's hard countering Warlocks. Assasins toying with them, Blade dancers pretty much kiting your thrall uptime and burst combos, KFM's pretty much countering ur dps and out ccing you and well blade masters just need you to mess up a little and its all over.

 

The class is a one trick pony in PVP with one good 5 sec burst and and every trick and variation used to exploit that so its forced into cookie cutter builds and cheap tricks like pressing QE on the thrall at the same time (go see Nadwahs vids on youtube) to cc and launch opponents to get the burst combo going ... and the good players are the ones who have figured out how to master time warp or survive if it fails.

 

If the class ever felt remotely balanced it was because the hongmoon skills of other classes hadnt been unlocked at that time .. but as time passes and the skills open up warlocks seem to feel more gimped and simply outclassed. Some classes can simply faceroll their keyboard and win ... as a lock you pretty much have to get 90% of it perfect just to stand a chance.

 

And that pretty much sums up warlocks imho ... get it almost 100% right or stand there with your pants down while getting the stuffing knocked out of you, and hope that in PVE people look at your AP rating and your cool special effects rather than your sorry lame spiky up and down dps.

 

PS: Shhhhhhh its a secret so dont tell anyone, the Thrall is working for your opponent not for you lol ;)

Edited by Nitefire

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babeln   

omg this whinners, i can talk only about pve

you never use dragoncall for pve, its laughable, crit dependant random burst, with one exception - 2 wl in party, one soulburn, one timewarp - no other class can do such burst, and it usually means half of boss hp down (lair, necro), and those wl will never get rid of aggro afterwards

normal helix rotation still outdps almost all classes(sustained dps, not burst), just max max max your crits, theres nothing more important for wl (imo not even playable bellow 55perc crit rate)

 

my experience from asura4

best aoe cleaner of trash mobs, can solo one lane, opening doors as fast as other side with fm+bm together

wl can save asses of party by resetting cd of ccs on 2nd boss, if something goes wrong

soulburn makes killing two birds so easy, just pop it when one is 60perc, flies up, and second 90perc lands, your party can burst one fast, withtout any need of fighting two together

on asura, wl can block balls and drag fire swords around room, while taking flowers, and dps all at once

 

skilled wl is amazing in 4mans, even two of them together

not so glass cannon as it seems, tho i am unable to tank yeti, and second asura boss, rest of all 4man bosses "tanked" several times, without problems

 

EDIT: im too far to be any some super skilled warlock, but reading your whinning, all i can say - L2P

Edited by babeln

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