This game is pay to win, you know it, or I will show you.

[Udunnome]

1 hour ago, Beeboo77 said:

let me break it down for ya : if i'm doing the faction quests  and a warlock with a 70%more power book (that he bought with real money) jump me and kill me its pay to "WIN"

EDIT : he won the fight cause he payed real money .

If that is what you consider winning in a MMORPG your vision is very limited. 

[Whimsicalalien]

I actually in a way agree with OP. To me this game feels borderline p2w. You need a sub to get anywhere. Then you either need to be really godly in pvp and earn a tonn of beans to sell soulstones or grind all the dailies you can get, do the professions, run 4 man for a very long time to upgrade your gear to true pirate and get all the skills you want. Or you could spend irl money to get ingame gold fast and upgrade everything to true pirate, buy end tree skills, and feel godly. Oh and if you want to draft costumes u need to buy cash shop costumes to get fabric.

[Faara]

49 minutes ago, Xogi said:

This is where you're wrong. Ever since ArenaNet introduced HoT, the pvp became massively pay to win, why? Because the Heart of Thorns specs are literally smashing core-classes from left to right, back and forth like a punching bag. Sure, you download the game and you get lvl 60 to pvp, all your remaining 20 levels of skillpoints will be unlocked, but you don't stand a chance in the higher division because you don't own HoT. That is the mere reason why GW2 is failing so hard, many people have quit and I'm one of them. 

Core is f2p, but GW2 (HoT) is still considered B2P. If you buy the game, like you were always meant to do, you wouldn't have any problems. Anets whole "F2P"-Marketing is BS.

 

For BnS, this system could work, because there are no expansions you would have to buy.

 

[MadnessCaffe]

Just now, Whimsicalalien said:

I actually in a way agree with OP. To me this game feels borderline p2w. You need a sub to get anywhere. Then you either need to be really godly in pvp and earn a tonn of beans to sell soulstones or grind all the dailies you can get, do the professions, run 4 man for a very long time to upgrade your gear to true pirate and get all the skills you want. Or you could spend irl money to get ingame gold fast and upgrade everything to true pirate, buy end tree skills, and feel godly. Oh and if you want to draft costumes u need to buy cash shop costumes to get fabric.

 

What godly in PvP ? You need to be just decent to reach gold in 1v1 then farm beans in 3v3. It's not that hard.  I have no craftng professions and I never went in 4 man and I went from True Profane stage 10 to Awakened Pirate stage 10 in  ~1 week (daily soulstone arena farm and dailies). A lot of things can be sold for gold : hexagonal gem fragments, pentagonal gem fragments, moonwater quartz, soulstones and even crafting stuff if you do craft.

[Shukran]

op reasons

"i dont want to grind and farm gold neither sell stuff or bother to trade or deal with the economy of the game, but EHY, if you have more money than me or more time than me or a better team that can do nicer things i cannot because i dont care, THAT is pay to win, hence im right other are wrong"

 

ok op, game is pay to win. now leave the game because it doesnt suit you.

 

have a nice time!

[Yajnos]

This thread is so funny to ignore. When i 1st play MMORPG well its ragnarok online which is really grindy the term pay to win never occurs that time hence before you can buy a really good critical chance card if i remember it correctly it was worth hundred of millions of zeny but nobody posted on the forum and say "Hey this game is P2W".

 

Why they never created a thread P2W back then? because that card can be obtain by grinding killing the same mobs over and over for a million times. But here is the really shocking thing that i wouldn't believe if i wasn't there when it happen.

 

This guy really want to get that critical chance card but he doesn't have the time to grind it but he has the money yeah money money in real life. So what he did is he bought the card 2pcs actually he did not bought it he traded it for his Car yeah you read it right "CAR" who the heck in his right mind would trade a car for a pixel?

 

But the game is still popular back then and i never heard the term "P2W".

 

I never invented this story it was back when i was still in college ragnarok was the 1st MMORPG i played.

[Whimsicalalien]

Just now, MadnessCaffe said:

 

What godly in PvP ? You need to be just decent to reach gold in 1v1 then farm beans in 3v3. It's not that hard.  I have no craftng professions and I never went in 4 man and I went from True Profane stage 10 to Awakened Pirate stage 10 in  ~1 week (daily soulstone arena farm and dailies). A lot of things can be sold for gold : hexagonal gem fragments, pentagonal gem fragments, moonwater quartz, soulstones and even crafting stuff if you do craft.

Gold only gets you 30 ss. Diamond gets you 50. And if you are really great in pvp you can easily reach highest levels of tag and get many rank bonus extra beans. So money are fast. Honestly, I doubt how you went upgraded to awakened pirate in 1 week, I've been playing for a month and only got 2 items upgraded to Siren. You must have been lucky with drops.

[Schwaka]

5 minutes ago, Whimsicalalien said:

I actually in a way agree with OP. To me this game feels borderline p2w. You need a sub to get anywhere. Then you either need to be really godly in pvp and earn a tonn of beans to sell soulstones or grind all the dailies you can get, do the professions, run 4 man for a very long time to upgrade your gear to true pirate and get all the skills you want. Or you could spend irl money to get ingame gold fast and upgrade everything to true pirate, buy end tree skills, and feel godly. Oh and if you want to draft costumes u need to buy cash shop costumes to get fabric.

You obviously missed my post about how far money actually gets you. The $100 pack would upgrade my weapon 1 tier, which I can use in-game currency to do in less than a week. There are still 2+ more tiers after this as well.

[Whimsicalalien]

Just now, Schwaka said:

You obviously missed my post about how far money actually gets you. The $100 pack would upgrade my weapon 1 tier, which I can use in-game currency to do in less than a week. There are still 2+ more tiers after this as well.

There are a lot of rich players playing this game. In my years of playing MMOs I've get general managers, lawers, businesmen etc... who all had no problem spening $1000 on in game stuff because it's nothing for them.

[TehKonijn]

1 minute ago, Whimsicalalien said:

There are a lot of rich players playing this game. In my years of playing MMOs I've get general managers, lawers, businesmen etc... who all had no problem spening $1000 on in game stuff because it's nothing for them.

These people also undoubtedly do not have the time to grind for the items and will most likely go to black market gold sellers to buy these items instead. I'm not saying this makes it right, but this game is F2P and the company needs to make money in order to satisfy their investors and share holders, by ignoring these revenue streams they would have to make more aggressive decisions on where to generate cash, most likely restricting normal users far more than what is currently there.

[MadnessCaffe]

7 minutes ago, Whimsicalalien said:

Gold only gets you 30 ss. Diamond gets you 50. And if you are really great in pvp you can easily reach highest levels of tag and get many rank bonus extra beans. So money are fast. Honestly, I doubt how you went upgraded to awakened pirate in 1 week, I've been playing for a month and only got 2 items upgraded to Siren. You must have been lucky with drops.

 

30 soulstones is enough. If you farm 2 pouches per day (4k beans daily), you get 60 soulstones + misty woods/hohgshead/tomb daily you get ~80 soulstones per day. For 20 soulstones you get like 5g 70s, depending on the price. So in one day you can get 20g just from soulstones (+ dailies like 30 and something gold). You don't have to be top 10 to farm soulstones, that income of soulstones is enough to cover the upgrade requirements and the rest you can obtain through questing (I got all my naryu silver, machismo, poh perfume and warrior tokens without paying for any). The only thing I had to buy with gold ever was moonwater transformation stones. If you're stuck at weapon upgrade cause it costs too much (like I did to true pirate), just gather the required soulstones (230 for true pirate), then sell all soulstones you get past 230 for gold so you can buy moonwater,etc. It's not that hard.

[IWantToKnow]

It's just a start of P2W you will see whats happens with the 50 lvl patch boys. 

[Udunnome]

3 minutes ago, Whimsicalalien said:

Gold only gets you 30 ss. Diamond gets you 50. And if you are really great in pvp you can easily reach highest levels of tag and get many rank bonus extra beans. So money are fast. Honestly, I doubt how you went upgraded to awakened pirate in 1 week, I've been playing for a month and only got 2 items upgraded to Siren. You must have been lucky with drops.

Get an organized group, farm dungeons and stuff.  Keep gold inside group without having to bid for items .....profit.

[DREAMWERK]

3 hours ago, mihwK said:

Well that is my wrong then, I didn't play WoW for a while, and arena gear was ALWAYS bought with honor or the arena points, NOTHING in the AH, your blue crafted gear is worth nothing, the best gear was obtained by playing not by buying. Also I'm pretty sure you are talking about the inferior gear, but just in case WoW got even more casual I will give you this one. 

 

Here in BnS you can get a SKILL for money, forget the gear since arena everyone is the same except for skills and skillpoints.

 

The best gear was always honor or arena, so you had to play to get it and not $$$. If that changed then yeah.

I'm not sure what wow you've been playing but back when I played there were a lot of BIS items coming from pve that were either boe or could be bought via bidding raids or guild carries. Stuff like Grim Toll, solace, death bringers will, darkmoon cards, unheeded warning and not to mention shadowmourne.

[ShadowRose]

Your just lazy op.

 

People pay for convenience while normal people grind for stuff that's how it works in every mmo.

 

I personally grind 7 chars a day with 100+ gold income a day does that make me p2w since i spent $100 on this game for the char slots?

 

First let me mention that warlock is the worst class in pvp thanks to the nerf that we are also getting making it lose to every class in a landslide unless you are a super pro.

 

Second you can spend a few days farming for it like normal people instead of complain oh its p2w when its not it just takes time.

 

And lastly that whole 70% damage is pointless because players set the price of the book not nc or anyone else and they decided hey i wanna scam you out of 500 gold so blame the players.

 

Also on that like of thought the blackwyrm claw is p2w to since it gives like 900 crit and like 2,000 stats it total and hell then really insnt everything p2w cause it costs anything at all since hey weapon upgrades arnt free that's pay 2 win cause it gives more damage or omg a level 45 has more basic stats then a level 1 THATS PAY TO WIN TO BECAUSE HE SPENT MONEY ON EXP SOUPS.

 

Sigh im getting tired of morons not understanding what p2s and pay for convenience is and that have never seen a true p2w game where you can spend thousands of hours farming for the best gear and get destroyed by anyone with money.

[Xogi]

6 minutes ago, Faara said:

Core is f2p, but GW2 (HoT) is still considered B2P. If you buy the game, like you were always meant to do, you wouldn't have any problems. Anets whole "F2P"-Marketing is BS.

 

For BnS, this system could work, because there are no expansions you would have to buy.

 

I know, and I do agree with you. But it doesn't change the fact that they made GW2 " Free To Play", sure it is marketing and as a trial to hook people up with the game then later to buy it - still, the availability to play the game for free is there. Which, in this case means people who plays the game only for PvP won't stand a chance. But then again, the class imbalancement in GW2 is rather stupid. You see thieves running around 1 hitting people with the recent huge buff. Buff 1 thing, kill 3 others (typical ArenaNet) But this is getting off-topic. Since this is related to BnS "P2W"

 

To OP, hi. For future reference, stop bringing up the same source over and over to prove your point. If you want to be right, go spam all the sources here (though it won't matter). Like any other opinions, enforcing your opinion on us is not changing this whole scenario. Pay 2 Win and End-Game are opinion-based. Me, for instance find Pay 2 win if you can upgrade your characters stats by buying the power from Cash shop with real cash money - which is not in this case. You state that people sell NCoin for gold, but that's a game-mechanic in itself - to USE. If I suddenly sell 10 soulstones for 500g, does it mean it's pay 2 win because you need it for upgrading? No, it doesn't, and I hope you see the point. 

 

What I can tell you now, if you don't want to buy the skillbook for that amount of money, wait until we get Silverfrost Patch, this will open a vendor that requires you to have 1.3k Achievement Poins and 70 Naryu Silver to buy the book. You see? The supply & demand is something you need to research before bashing other people for being a kid, kudos to you my friend. You won literally nothing. 

[Faara]

13 minutes ago, Yajnos said:

This guy really want to get that critical chance card but he doesn't have the time to grind it but he has the money yeah money money in real life. So what he did is he bought the card 2pcs actually he did not bought it he traded it for his Car yeah you read it right "CAR" who the heck in his right mind would trade a car for a pixel?

 

But the game is still popular back then and i never heard the term "P2W".

 

I never invented this story it was back when i was still in college ragnarok was the 1st MMORPG i played.

Yeah... In the first MMORPG I played, "Biosfear"(for EU, Laghaim -> KR/ Savage Eden-> NA), you had to grind months for some high level weapons. You were able to upgrade them to +15, upgrade chances were pretty low and they would go down when the upgrade failed. Many people sold their items on ebay for thousands of €, although you could get banned for it (but people bought the items anyway). Nobody ever said this game was p2w. They even wanted an IG-Store to buy things like XP-Boosts without considering it p2w. And this game was all about leveling up (lvl was unlimited, the highest got to lvl 34x before it closed in the EU) and getting upgraded weapons to level faster.

 

Today, everyone cries "P2W" for minor things and reasons.

[Schwaka]

3 minutes ago, Whimsicalalien said:

There are a lot of rich players playing this game. In my years of playing MMOs I've get general managers, lawers, businesmen etc... who all had no problem spening $1000 on in game stuff because it's nothing for them.

Over a few years, sure. It's easy to put money into games and not realize how much you spent. I've done it on pay to win games before when I was younger and made good money. Rich people tend to weigh the cost of money vs time saved. They don't get rich by blowing their money for very little benefit. I can buy this upgrade in about 5-6 days of playing, but that's playing fairly casually and only doing dailies. If you dedicate time to the game you can probably do it in 1-2 day. $100 just isn't worth that when you still need more gold past that.

[kv2004]

A rare in game drop which can be bought by in game money = pay to win? Meh.......

[Whimsicalalien]

1 minute ago, kv2004 said:

A rare in game drop which can be bought by in game money = pay to win? Meh.......

But you need the item to be decent. Imho skills shouldn't be rare drops, they should be very available. What should be in cash shop is: costumes, XP boosts, race changes, mounts, pets, exclusive hair and such.

[Yajnos]

My definition of P2W is if you can only buy that item via NCoin and you wont be able to get it just by playing the game.

[GoSpursGO]

There are still good people. 

So you really don't need to buy it.

[CalaMatis]

Sorry but this thread is absurd.. It is precisely PLAY TO WIN instead of PAY TO WIN because you can buy the item with in-game gold and not real money.

Honestly keeping up with topics like this is just not productive at all, just delete thread and do us all a favor.

[Master_Jey]

Lol, those are player prices. Just be patient it'll go down. Everyone will be able to acquire the books. And I don't think it's worth paying much because we'll get it easier eventually 

[kv2004]

11 minutes ago, Whimsicalalien said:

But you need the item to be decent. Imho skills shouldn't be rare drops, they should be very available. What should be in cash shop is: costumes, XP boosts, race changes, mounts, pets, exclusive hair and such.

 

It is your own opinion that skill books shouldn't be rare drop. Many other games also got skills as rare drop which only a few ppl who are either rich or lucky can get it.

 

As for BnS, you can think in this way:

These skill books are lvl50 skill book(everyone can farm it easily with lvl50) but a few ppl(rich/lucky/spend a lot of time) can use it in lvl45. 

 

Plus farming this isn't that hard. I have done around 10 times in total, got 3 books dropped(2 BD 1 Des). My group done it once with tank KFM 380 ap and rest 3 only 350-360 ap, And with better gear one run only take like 30min.