This game is pay to win, you know it, or I will show you.

[Dray0s]

1 hour ago, mihwK said:

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

 

It's okay bobby, I will explain this to you, I'm expecting brainless people when I make a thread like this.

 

Someone who can buy power at a faster rate because he pays for it, is the definiton of p2w. Just because you can save up gold doesn't mean it's not p2w. I just rocked your world, admit it.

 

ur source is urban direction, a troll website made for people who have far too much time on their hands, which is why no ones giving the source any credit, I've made urban direction meanings doesn't mean any one them are true, at most its a Person Perception of a Word, a Opinon of what they identify as p2w, Just as Many here and in other games Don't agree with that opinon.

 

People get the real meanings behind many words Mixed up and they end up sticking, even tho they have nothing to do with the word, for example in English Gay means Happy, its only a Selection of people who turned into a comment for a Homosexual, doesn't it mean its true to its words, No it isn't, does it mean our culture accepts its New definition yes it does, as a NA and EU playerbase, we deem p2w to be completely different to what KR Consider to be p2w.

 

the game is Boarderline P2W, which is pay for convience, it isn't any better then p2w, cause it still strangles f2p players who cant make the money comittments to the game, but at the end of the day, no form of entertainment can provide decent play or Competitive capability to a Paying player, because if it was no one would pay and this game would shut down.

 

I think u need to reliese to destincely be p2w it would have to do Something that the community doesn't accept, every MMO Supports this same Model, us as a Country, a Community and Group of People, have Accepted this as a Acceptable model for F2P games, it cannot be as a GAME P2w because of that, as a Model yes its P2W, but its a Model which has been Normalised by gamers today, therefore it Matchs the Critia of a F2P pushing no boundaries which have been created in this Community.

[mihwK]

1 minute ago, GreenBunionSoup said:

If you want the book to be obtained in different ways, then argue about how ridiculous it is to obtain a book. You've been arguing about the P2W aspect, which isn't even the problem. I even addressed this exact thing in my first post in this thread, how it's not P2W, but books are part of a faulty system of being behind a ton of RNG, thus making you getting the book you want incredibly rare, giving people the ability to jack up the prices insanely

The p2w aspect is EXACTLY why these book aren't dropping in price.

 

These people who don't have to put in the work to get that gold don't care. As long as they exist, the prices will remain. Most ppl will never drop 400g+ for those things because it's quite a bit of work to get it ingame.

[gothicshark]

3 minutes ago, mihwK said:

See this is not the discussion this thread is aiming at tho.

I'm not saying the game couldn't need the money, or if it's absolutely out of reason.

 

I'm simply saying this is pay to win because they say it isn't. Because, guess what? It is pay to win, I'm not fussing about the reasons why, just saying it is, and in a 6 page long game with bad trolls, I've yet to see 1 guy link me a source where I'm going to be wrong.

 

I linked them what I found over google, and I didn't need the google link to understand it. I understand pay to win the exact way that link describes it. If they think they are so right, why is it so hard to get a source which prooves mine worng. I delivered ;)

because Pay to win has no actual definition. However most people agree it's real world money for something that gives a clear advantage in game.

 

Everything that you can buy in the store is obtainable in game, for free by just playing the game.

 

as for definitions - here:

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/19/the-daily-grind-how-do-you-define-pay-to-win/

" The problem is that there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win.  "

 

http://nzgamer.com/news/9853/no-pay-to-win-microtransactions-for-the-division-says-ubisoft.html

" "I don't know if there's a globally agreed definition of the word microtransactions, but you don't pay to win or advance or anything like that," 

 

basically, Industry professionals have never bothered to define Pay-to-win, however they all seem to think micro-transactions which power up a character is what it is. 

[GreenBunionSoup]

Proof? We have literal logic. How do we need proof for that? Also, no, the P2W aspect is NOT exactly why they're not dropping in price. It's supply and demand, which is insanely basic that everyone should know about. The skillbooks are definitely good, but also insanely rare. That's why the prices are up. You're basically talking about people paying 300-400 dollars for just a single skillbook. There are far more people that obtained them through actual hardwork than are willing to pay those prices

[Fyk0]

Dungeon drops are P2W now? Oh boy

[mihwK]

8 minutes ago, GreenBunionSoup said:

If you want the book to be obtained in different ways, then argue about how ridiculous it is to obtain a book. You've been arguing about the P2W aspect, which isn't even the problem. I even addressed this exact thing in my first post in this thread, how it's not P2W, but books are part of a faulty system of being behind a ton of RNG, thus making you getting the book you want incredibly rare, giving people the ability to jack up the prices insanely

 

I've never disagreed with how ridiculous it is of obtaining the books. My problem is you're claiming P2W when that's not the case. I even started a topic talking about how ridiculous it is getting those skillbooks are, so if you want to talk about that we can, but if you want to keep claiming the game is P2W we'll still be here proving you wrong

I'm still waiting for the proove.

 

I will get my only link again, I won't look for another one because none of you actually force me to.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

or

 

Pay To Win AKA P2W. when you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long.

 

This is the definiton, and you can obvsly change it. Still, this is better than showing nothing. I win the prooving. Many people understand the same thing under p2w, buying something you have to farm for a long time is considered p2w unless you have no idea. In order to get that book you have to farm for a long time, or simply p2w it, easy.

 

I can get a source, where ppl state the SAME thing.

[Southbeatz]

It's nice for everyone to have opinions but there are different ways to look at this. A lot of people that buys gold with real money are likely people that don't have a lot of free time. These people can't spend several hours every day to farm a dungeon until they have what they want or farm for gold. These people will use some of their real money to reduce the time spent to obtain certain things. Of course some people abuses this by using real money simply to feel elite and have the best of something as fast as possible. Real money and even time spent in a game does not equate to skill. The other night, I saw a player that was HM5 so obviously they've been playing a lot to gain so much exp yet in a 4man Supply Chain run, this HM5 player died and simply couldn't do their part.

 

Having better gear doesn't make someone the better player but more so why should anyone care what the next person has? We play for fun as is the intention of any game. If you have fun playing, you really shouldn't waste your time caring about how much real money the next person has spent. Another way to look at it is that for those of us that love this game, we should be happy that there are those that will spend crazy amounts of real money on a game because the more profitable a MMO is, the more likely it is to stick around long term. The more money a MMO makes, often helps increase the quality of the game overall. There's plenty more positives and negatives to it all but it is what it is.

 

I am in no rush to get everything, I play multiple characters when I have extra time. In just 2 hours per day, playing casually and I mean casually, it's easy to make 15-20g per day. I'm not going to get into details because if anyone complains about not having gold then it's their own fault for not looking for ways to make gold. If someone were to spend 6 hours a day on here, I would say it'd be easy enough to make anywhere between 35g to 75g per day. There's plenty of ways to make gold but it does require effort. Things are not going to be given away for free. Even casually at 20g per day, in a few weeks that would be enough gold to buy the book. The upgrade costs can be a bit crazy also but this is a Korean based MMO so expect some grind and expect things to not be handed out for free. The game is fun so enjoy it and save that gold.

[Dray0s]

then its Players causing the problems and not a Model or gameplay, its a Abuse made by the players, cant blame a company model or game for a Persons greed, only themselves can stop that. a Player cannot make this game p2w, the company gives Nothing to the player to make him Win via Paying, we price our own merchandise above the average players earnings,

 

Cant u see this?...

 

If the game SOLD U the book to SELL for 400g cause u cant ACCESS the tome via the game, then this is P2w!

 

if the game Sells u currency that can Be Abused by the Community who farm these items then the game is doing nothing but ENABLING the service which makes it Pay for Convience.

 

the game isn't selling u anything, or giving u anything increasing the power, the game is Supplying a Service, which the Community have recognised and Changed to fit, NCSOft Didn't FORCE players to sell their books at 400gold, they chose to price them that high, which makes the current issue a Playerbase Problem and Not a Companies problem.

 

imho. u have two choices.

 

Accept it or Leave the game.

 

the game Is what the game is, its running a Standard F2P model uj wont find better elsewhere.

 

 

[Denaria]

@Hime Please nip this thread in the bud.

[GreenBunionSoup]

2 minutes ago, mihwK said:

I'm still waiting for the proove.

 

I will get my only link again, I won't look for another one because none of you actually force me to.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

 

This is the definiton, and you can obvsly change it. Still, this is better than showing nothing. I win the prooving.

You're using a very subjective definition as proof? Dear god, I can't counter that and must admit defeat

 

 

You're seriously saying there's a ton of people paying over 300 dollars for a single skillbook? Why do you keep glossing over this? The fact that a single skillbook that costs 400 dollars is over 300 dollars is a fact that you have refused to comment on

[animefreak2390]

2 hours ago, mihwK said:

I would like to have the defending people of this game explain me how this is not pay to win:

 

BM /  Warlock / BD - BSH 4man Skill Books

 

These Books:

- have a price of 400g+!

- they increase the power of the character tremendously

 

I tried to inform myself over the Warlock, and people say the book will increase the DMG by 70%.

I've watched MANY youtube videos, where ppl would talk about builds and specifically say "you can't do this without the BSH book".

 

A person willing to spend irL money, is able to buy Gold and with that, able to buy these insanely overpriced books.

If I face a mirror match in arena as any of the stated classes above, the game will be unfair. It's not an even match at all, and my enemy has the potential to buy this power = pay to win.

 

Whiteknights (fanboys) assemble!

You my good sir are right about the definition. However, you are wrong about the game. There is no weapons or gear other than keys and cosmetics to get you the best gear set in game in the cash shop. Yes these books costs lots now, yes it's hard to compete with people who sell ncoin for gold. I'm sure you have 3 good geared friends to run with and if you don't soak up the absurd money people bid for these items and fill up your pocket. I've played other games where it was indeed pay to win such as perfect world international. And let me tell you this gold isn't that rare. On one toon you can make close to 15 gold a day and if you have time that adds up on multiple toons. Now this is saying you're not too cheap to get premium. Maybe you should play a p2w game before your weeaboo side kicks in because it just seems you lack the initiative to do anything and just want shit handed to you. This isn't a private server want that stuff go find one and leave.

[Infamous]

Damn, he's still whining about p2w..............

[Dray0s]

this thread needs closing its cycling around the same arguments,

[mihwK]

1 minute ago, GreenBunionSoup said:

You're using a very subjective definition as proof? Dear god, I can't counter that and must admit defeat

 

 

You're seriously saying there's a ton of people paying over 300 dollars for a single skillbook? Why do you keep glossing over this? The fact that a single skillbook that costs 400 dollars is over 300 dollars is a fact that you have refused to comment on

I don't even understand the sentence: a 400 dollar book is over 300 dollars

[Faara]

Fairest system would be like Gw2 PvP  - every skill is unlocked and useable in PvP but still need to be obtained to use them in PvE.

 

But still, the books are not p2w. UD lies, because some troll posted his own interpretation of p2w and other trolles liked it.

[mihwK]

5 minutes ago, animefreak2390 said:

You my good sir are right about the definition. However, you are wrong about the game. There is no weapons or gear other than keys and cosmetics to get you the best gear set in game in the cash shop. Yes these books costs lots now, yes it's hard to compete with people who sell ncoin for gold. I'm sure you have 3 good geared friends to run with and if you don't soak up the absurd money people bid for these items and fill up your pocket. I've played other games where it was indeed pay to win such as perfect world international. And let me tell you this gold isn't that rare. On one toon you can make close to 15 gold a day and if you have time that adds up on multiple toons. Now this is saying you're not too cheap to get premium. Maybe you should play a p2w game before your weeaboo side kicks in because it just seems you lack the initiative to do anything and just want shit handed to you. This isn't a private server want that stuff go find one and leave.

I shouldnt have to compete with anyone who spends money on this game in arena. Arena should be fair and square, or they have to stop saying it's an esport and there is no p2w. If I'm right about the meaning of the word, I am right in this thread.

They either market this thing what it really is, or people will complain about them not following their word.

[FreyrBlackwood]

Let us look at the currency exchange. You buy NCoins for $$, then you buy gold from the CX. The gold comes from other players who get HM coins in exhance, you are not paying the Devs to magically create gold for you. Basically the CX is trade between players and by your definitions it marketplace and player trading should be removed because its p2w.

[Dray0s]

35 minutes ago, mihwK said:

So you agree, this is p2w.

 

You just said it.

 

if u read my sentence u'd of seen differently.

 

P2W is a EXCLUSIVE TITLE GIVEN TO GAMES WHICH PUSH THE BOUNDARIES US AS PLAYERS HAVE SET AS A EXPECTATION OF A GAMES MODEL AND OFFERING.

 

u cannot Call EVERY game on the ENTIRE MARKET p2w. theres a BAR SET WHICH DICTATES ITS NOT P2W.

 

this is Called the MAJORITY OF F2P GAMING MODELS. if the game MATCHS THESE SPECIFIC GAMES then it ISNT P2W it uses the NORMALISED F2P MODEL of today.

 

blade and Soul MATCHS the other games in their Methods and Models, therefore it fits IN WITH the NORMALISED CATAGORY, which means although the MODEL could be CALLED p2w it is the model us as Players have agreed to and Supported THEREFORE the game itself is NOT p2w but simply supports a Internationally Loved System.

[GreenBunionSoup]

Just now, mihwK said:

I don't even understand the sentence: a 400 dollar book is over 300 dollars

It's pretty self explanatory. To get 400 gold using Ncoin, with a conversion rate of 1 gold per 70 Ncoin which is the standard, you'd need 28000 Ncoins, without factoring in the fees you'd need. Not 2800, 28000. Twenty Eight Thousand. That would cost 350 dollars just to get 28000 Ncoins. You are much more likely to fight someone who has actually worked and put effort into farming a skillbook than fighting someone who would be willing to spend that much money on a skillbook

[gothicshark]

1 minute ago, mihwK said:

I don't even understand the sentence: a 400 dollar book is over 300 dollars

NCCoin to  convert to in game gold, the rate works out to $1 = .75gold, which means an item on the auction house for 400 gold is about $300 us dollars. No game is worth $300 unless it includes some sweet Collectors items. 

[Beeboo77]

300-400 who cares .. if u don't have the money to buy it it dosent mean that it's not pay to win tho ...

so if someone can make his char. stronger than mine  just sitting in town and paying real money its PAY TO WIN simple as that

[mihwK]

Just now, GreenBunionSoup said:

It's pretty self explanatory. To get 400 gold using Ncoin, with a conversion rate of 1 gold per 70 Ncoin which is the standard, you'd need 28000 Ncoins, without factoring in the fees you'd need. Not 2800, 28000. Twenty Eight Thousand. That would cost 350 dollars just to get 28000 Ncoins. You are much more likely to fight someone who has actually worked and put effort into farming a skillbook than fighting someone who would be willing to spend that much money on a skillbook

Yeah because this is all about, how likely it is, this thread is not about the fact that it's possible. No, not that you CAN buy it for money, it's about how likely it is to face someone who has it, obvsly you are smart.

[GreenBunionSoup]

This thread stopped being fun, and devolved into someone who has been picking and choosing what to argue against. I'm done with this, I'm sure there are already enough people to prove OP wrong anyway. All they'd have to do is go back a few pages and get any logical post since he just went ahead and ignored them

[holic]

So to settle this we need to get a clear answer from guys in charge of the game what their definition of p2w is. Since everyone seems to have their own for it

[gothicshark]

1 minute ago, mihwK said:

Yeah because this is all about, how likely it is, this thread is not about the fact that it's possible. No, not that you CAN buy it for money, it's about how likely it is to face someone who has it, obvsly you are smart.

At those prices, not likely at all. I personally have spent over $300 on this game, and I play it maybe once a week. Even if I was running hardcore PVP here I wouldn't pay $300+ to exchange for gold, to buy an item on the AH, that I can farm easily. If I'm gonna waste money for power, better to pay a person using paypal to get the item. I bet I could do it for $20 or less.