This game is pay to win, you know it, or I will show you.

[Bendosuff]

8 minutes ago, Schwaka said:

Apparently you can be VERY dense. The exchange rate isn't good enough to be worth anything considering the amount of money needed for upgrades and such. When you can grind the dungeon that drops it for the drop, how is that not a grind again? The ability to buy in-game money for gold doesn't make it P2W. If that was the case, EVERY game is P2W because you can buy gold online in every game.

Still you can buy gold with real money, and more gold = more upgrades. If there was way to remove the need for gold when upgrading gear, game wouldnt be p2w. I'm not in charge to think what is the best way, but currency exhange is not the right direction

[Gratus]

6 minutes ago, Schwaka said:

Apparently you can be VERY dense. The exchange rate isn't good enough to be worth anything considering the amount of money needed for upgrades and such. When you can grind the dungeon that drops it for the drop, how is that not a grind again? The ability to buy in-game money for gold doesn't make it P2W. If that was the case, EVERY game is P2W because you can buy gold online in every game.

 

Not a single game is pay-to-win because you can always farm gold/items/characters, sell it for real money and buy everything you need from the cash shop amirite

[Analiyah]

I've beaten people who had legendary skills in arena, while I still don't have mine. How is this p2w ?

[Beeboo77]

25 minutes ago, Schwaka said:

 

You assume he paid real money, maybe he spent his time farming for it like the people complaining about it should be. People willing to pay $300 for a skill book are extremely rare and it's likely you would never come across someone who paid. The hundreds-thousands-millions of people who farm for it have the exact same advantage as the 2 people who are willing to buy it with RL$. P2W games have advantages that aren't reasonably available in-game for sale in the cash shop and free player have no chance to be as powerful as paid players.

I assumed we already have the warlock but that's not the point of this topic is it ? and if u judge the game by your broke ass point of view it dosent mean that ppl arent willing to pay WAAAYYY more than your 300euros

[Somnolence]

2 minutes ago, Analiyah said:

I've beaten people who had legendary skills in arena, while I still don't have mine. How is this p2w ?

My problem with is that at lvl 50 you need to have them and as much of hongmoon levels as possible to compete, because game is balanced on that. If you do not, game has no balance, your skill won't ever be able to overcome somebody having twice your skillpoints and more immunities/dps etc.

So if your character reaches endgame level its not at max potential in pvp until you grind OR open your wallet.

[Schwaka]

2 minutes ago, Bendosuff said:

Still you can buy gold with real money, and more gold = more upgrades. If there was way to remove the need for gold when upgrading gear, game wouldnt be p2w. I'm not in charge to think what is the best way, but currency exhange is not the right direction

The next breakthrough for my weapon needs 21 SS (25S each), and 15 Poharan perfume (37s each), plus 5.5G. That's a grand total of 16G. The next upgrade is 7 moonwater stones (5.5G each), 110SS and 18G. That's 84G for one upgrade, and 100G for both. The $100 pack of NCoin gets you 114G, barely enough for 2 upgrades, and there are a lot more upgrades after those 2. Just doing the PvE dailies gets you 10G per day, and the faction dailies give a nice chunk of SS. That is exactly why this game isn't P2W. If that $100 pack got you all the way to max when it took 10 days to do one major upgrade, that would be P2W. However, it gets you nowhere in the long term and a dedicated player can outgear someone who only pays easily.

[Xogi]

2 hours ago, Faara said:

Fairest system would be like Gw2 PvP  - every skill is unlocked and useable in PvP but still need to be obtained to use them in PvE.

 

But still, the books are not p2w. UD lies, because some troll posted his own interpretation of p2w and other trolles liked it.

This is where you're wrong. Ever since ArenaNet introduced HoT, the pvp became massively pay to win, why? Because the Heart of Thorns specs are literally smashing core-classes from left to right, back and forth like a punching bag. Sure, you download the game and you get lvl 60 to pvp, all your remaining 20 levels of skillpoints will be unlocked, but you don't stand a chance in the higher division because you don't own HoT. That is the mere reason why GW2 is failing so hard, many people have quit and I'm one of them. 

[Schwaka]

13 minutes ago, Beeboo77 said:

I assumed we already have the warlock but that's not the point of this topic is it ? and if u judge the game by your broke ass point of view it dosent mean that ppl arent willing to pay WAAAYYY more than your 300euros

I judge the game by a realistic point of view.  99.9% of the players wouldn't spend $300 on a skill book that is easily farmable. Not everyone has their parent's credit card to blow money on. If you want to judge this game like every warlock in the game is going to go buy it, that's your problem.

[Beeboo77]

3 minutes ago, Schwaka said:

I judge the game by a realistic point of view.  99.9% of the players wouldn't spend $300 on a skill book that is easily farmable. Not everyone has their parent's credit card to blow money on. If you want to judge this game like every warlock in the game is going to go buy it, that's your problem.

your realistic point of view is wrong again and not real .. just look at how many ppl bought the master founder pack (without the game being release yet in NA/EU) and maybe then you'll understand wich i very much doubt it .

over and out

[Schwaka]

2 minutes ago, Beeboo77 said:

your realistic point of view is wrong again and not real .. just look at how many ppl bought the master founder pack (without the game being release yet in NA/EU) and maybe then you'll understand wich i very much doubt it .

over and out

That has nothing to do with people paying $300 for 1 skill book that is easily farmable LOL. Below is what people got for it, plus it was a way to support the game that people have been waiting for since it's initial release. Also, "over" and "out" are 2 separate radio terms that are never used together. Over means you are done transmitting and expect a reply, out means you are done transmitting and do not expect a reply.

 

• Gain access to all Closed Beta weekends this fall.
• 3 day Head Start Access - Secure early access to Blade & Soul 3 days before the game launches.
• 4 Character Titles - You will receive one special title as a Founder “Founder” and three additional titles specific to the Initiate Pack “Pursuer of the Wind”, Disciple Pack “Defender of the Ancestors” and Master Pack “Master of the Golden Path”.
• 48,800 Premium Points - These points will give you access to Level 4 benefits when you redeem your 90-day Premium Membership. ::
• 90-Day Premium Membership - Receive a 90-day Premium Membership that can be redeemed from Head Start that will grant you special convenience perks like bonus gold & EXP from quests, reduced commission fees in the Item Auction House, dazzling Windwalk visual effects, and reduced cooldown for Windstride.
• 2 Name Reservation Slots - Create two characters and secure your preferred character name before the Head Start period. Your name is unique across all servers in your region.
• Extended Booster Pack - Receive an Extended Booster Pack when Head Start begins that contains Healing Potions, Food (Restores HP and has variable Buffs), Repair Tools, to help you get started in Blade & Soul - plus 50 Dragon Trade Pouches for increasing your inventory size (some inventory slots cost multiple pouches to unlock), a Hongmoon Brilliant Viridian Key and a Hongmoon Brilliant Cinderlands Key to unlock class specific loot boxes in-game.
• 2 Character Alteration Vouchers - Receive 2 tickets to change the appearance of two of your characters at any time after you have completed character creation
• 5 Extra Character Slots - Gain 5 extra character slots at launch for a total of 7 character slots.
• 7,200 NCoin - Receive 7,200 NCoin, a $90 USD value, to purchase items from the in-game shop. Available from Head Start. You will also receive 7,200 Test NCoin for use in the Closed Beta only.
• Unique Head Accessory - Receive an exclusive head accessory for your character only available through a Master Pack.
• Unique Weapon Skin - Receive an exclusive weapon skin for your character only available through a Master Pack.
• Unique Costumes - Receive exclusive costumes for your character only available through a Master Pack.

[IIIDaNIII]

well there are farmer in game.. you know those player that selling gold. and they know how to get much gold without even buy single ncoin. If you had see them how they farm, gold are not problem in game.
and ncoin just to help rich people to faster high end. and not skill.. and I think this game is need skill.. some low equip can beat high equip.
for me.. pay to win is where there is item that imbalance and only can bought with real money. and there is no such in this game..

[Altheatheia]

I can't buy Ferrari, Life is pay to win :D

[Rawrzory]

God this thread went on for way too long ... It's not p2w although i do think these droprates make it hang more towards p2w then completely balanced. It's because it's a skill to unlock which you might or might not need in arena PVP. If they would turn off these skills in arena there wouldn't be a problem, and somewhere i read they actually where locked out from arena ? 

[Hectore]

4 hours ago, mihwK said:

I would like to have the defending people of this game explain me how this is not pay to win:

 

BM /  Warlock / BD - BSH 4man Skill Books

 

These Books:

- have a price of 400g+!

- they increase the power of the character tremendously

 

I tried to inform myself over the Warlock, and people say the book will increase the DMG by 70%.

I've watched MANY youtube videos, where ppl would talk about builds and specifically say "you can't do this without the BSH book".

 

A person willing to spend irL money, is able to buy Gold and with that, able to buy these insanely overpriced books.

If I face a mirror match in arena as any of the stated classes above, the game will be unfair. It's not an even match at all, and my enemy has the potential to buy this power = pay to win.

 

Whiteknights (fanboys) assemble!

 

Ill answer urs question

1.Doing Arena Daily and Normal Daily missions u can get araund 50 Soulstone per day + Rewards from Daily missions araund 10-15 gold depends which is more then enough to upgrade slowly urs gear...and if u have alt things can go double

2.With nice crafting skils u cannot earn SO much those days...but u still can earn some money not selling done product instead selling materials...example Premium things from Merry Pottery

3.If u do all of those things above or even close u will have enough money to upgrade urs gear on some normal or even End game lvl like i did myself and then just farm 4 man instance with frends and get book which u wish

 

Pay to win is only if u cannot farm it easy urself...i agrae ppl who buying ncoins and selling and things they can earn things a bit faster then those who farm...but for me personaly farming and gearing up mine char is what giving me fun playing those games

 

Ill give u example of what pay2win is actualy...

1.on one game u can make item +10 but to make it good u need to add 5 stats on that item...they coming randomly and each cost 5 euro to add "Only from item shop"

after u add them u usualy get crappy stats and then u need to pay 10 euro each chenge of those bonuses

 

2.on one another game u work urs ass off to farm 100 milions to buy some item...and guy come charge "Gold" buy packs open them and make in 5 min 2-3 bilion ingame money and get all his things to max and u would need like 5-6 years to get there by urs normal farming if is even posible

 

Conclusion...this game have some bad points and i agrae it should be a better but definitly is not pay2win...also i can ask a question...Pay2Win What?If u kill sombody u wont get any reward or something nice in open world pvp....and in arena all gear is same...so same question again...Pay2Win WHAT?!

[Liverne]

I am not going to argue with anyone, but by "pay to win" definitions of each individual word means you pay to get an advantage over another person that does not have the ability to pay.

 

Paying for convenience is the way I see this.

 

Might I also add that the currency exchange rates average about 1:68, if someone really used NCoins to purchase, say 300g... 20,400NCoins, that is USD250+, I want to laugh at those people. 

 

Oh while at it, there are so many people looking for "instant gratification". 

 

Meanwhile @ NCSoft,

 

[Yamyatos]

I disagree. It`s true that through currency exchange you can buy the best gear and also these skill books, but it's nothing a normal player cant achieve. 

I'm a master founder and i'm willing to pay, but i wont ever spend money on the currency exchange lol. For 100€ you get a shaby 150 gold or so... for this insanely low rate, the people that actually go for it: do it. You are financing the servers, i dont have problems with that. If you're willing to spend up to 250€ on a skill book.. thats fine.

 

And yes, these books are an advantage, but speaking of which... the game is pvp to win xD 

PVP players are the ones that can farm hundreds (!) of soulstones a day. They dont even need them. You can just sell them and get 30 gold for 100 soulstones. 

Of course it takes effort to get these books. You either farm the books, or you farm the money with which you buy the book. It takes effort. Like for everything, people that are willing to spend hundreds upon hundreds of €$€$€ for it will get it faster. You should also not forget, that they *also* had to put in effort. They just decided that they'd rather spend their hard earned money than their hard farmed gold. And as i said.. it's not like "pay 50€ to be super cool" it's "pay hundreds to get an item faster". An item which can be optained ingame - and that's not even unrealistic. Most of my gold is in the form of materials so i cant give a specific number, but i'd say i have somewhere between 400 and 500 gold without spending a single € on it. Stop complaining and start working, either in or outside of the game.

 

There are other problems with this game. I dont deny that. I'm not white knighting the shit out of this game, but these threads are getting silly. 

[Naisho]

5 hours ago, mihwK said:

I would like to have the defending people of this game explain me how this is not pay to win:

 

BM /  Warlock / BD - BSH 4man Skill Books

 

These Books:

- have a price of 400g+!

- they increase the power of the character tremendously

 

I tried to inform myself over the Warlock, and people say the book will increase the DMG by 70%.

I've watched MANY youtube videos, where ppl would talk about builds and specifically say "you can't do this without the BSH book".

 

A person willing to spend irL money, is able to buy Gold and with that, able to buy these insanely overpriced books.

If I face a mirror match in arena as any of the stated classes above, the game will be unfair. It's not an even match at all, and my enemy has the potential to buy this power = pay to win.

 

Whiteknights (fanboys) assemble!

Let me see...

 

I'm a BD and so far the arena I had with other BD who has the BSH skill book... I beat them. Well that doesn't say much except I'm probably better. Then again I never stood on the DoT thing for long.

Next, you tell me. Is it pay to win or pay for convenience? Do free play get blocked out from the skill books and can never get it? Or do payers just get it earlier at a convenience?

 

I think I said enough.

[Rawrzory]

7 minutes ago, Liverne said:

I am not going to argue with anyone, but by "pay to win" definitions of each individual word means you pay to get an advantage over another person that does not have the ability to pay.

 

Paying for convenience is the way I see this.

 

Might I also add that the currency exchange rates average about 1:68, if someone really used NCoins to purchase, say 300g... 20,400NCoins, that is USD250+, I want to laugh at those people. 

 

Oh while at it, there are so many people looking for "instant gratification". 

 

Meanwhile @ NCSoft,

 

 

 

 

[TheRealBronx]

Breaking news, this just in:

 

Having money lets you buy things.

[Madao]

Guys. This game is Luck2Win because I haven't gotten my skill book yet, but I've done many BSH4-s. Please ban all those people who have unfair advantage because they have more luck.

[TehKonijn]

Are you guys incapable of disagreeing with each other without calling each other stupid/idiots/<other insult here>? This community is almost as toxic as LoL ffs (and far more than the LoL forums at least).

 

Where are the forum mods? smh...

[Etniuh]

I just want to know HOW there is ppl with more than 500g even with all the character slot sell soulstone and do the dailys quest u cant get that money
ofc maybe but in like 3 months XDD

[pingal1ty]

my 2 cents :

[TheRealBronx]

1 minute ago, Guinte said:

I just want to know HOW there is ppl with more than 500g even with all the character slot sell soulstone and do the dailys quest u cant get that money
ofc maybe but in like 3 months XDD

 

The BM skillbook goes for 500g+. 

 

Hunt book. Sell book. You do the math.

[MadnessCaffe]

Well. It is not pay to win in the real sense.

 

First, pay to win means obtaining advantages with money that non-paying users can't ever get. (Note: premium advantages are not pay to win because it doesn't create a gap between the players).

 

Secondly, it's true that the books are expensive (I play BM too, never spent real money in-game), but the money can be gathered. I'm at the moment at Awakened Pirate Stage 10 and going to True Pirate soon, so it can be done.

 

Thirdly, you should realise that not everyone has the time to play. What I mean is that to obtain gear, people have to trade their time in some way or another. You either trade your time raw (play a lot) or you either spend money (for which you have worked = spent time). So everyone spends time in some way or another. Now cause there a few people with daddy's wallet that buy stuff that's another story, but for these exceptions see what I said first.

 

One more thing, it is not pay to win because once you obtain good gear (PvE) or the skill book (ex : lightning draw for BM from BSH 4 for PvP), you won't instantly win without effort. In PvE you still have to know your class and avoid boss attacks and be decent overall. In PvP the book doesn't instantly give you a win either, you need to play well to win. The book is just an extra burst for BMs, but you can live without it (I'm 1700 rating in 1v1 and reached 1800 in 3v3 multiple times as BM and I'm not even good).

 

So overall, there's absolutely no reason to complain that some people buy gold with Ncoin. It's their problem. Sure, it may be frustrating seeing others obtaining gear faster, but you can obtain it too with enough time. It's not like the end content goes away until you upgrade your gear.

 

Also, it seems that nowadays people complaining about p2w don't know what truly p2w is. I played games where players could buy buffs and f2p players couldn't get those and were getting destroyed in PvP. That's what true p2w is.