This game is pay to win, you know it, or I will show you.

[mihwK]

3 minutes ago, Caex said:

 

but how can you prove this? please tell me

Proove what? YOU can buy gold in game with the currency exchange = you can buy the 400g book other people have to spend time for.

THE GAME allows you to buy gold, so you can simply buy 400g, proove what? What proove do you need? You are funny man :D

 

While guy A has to earn the book by running BSH or by farming gold, guy B can simply wave his credit card and buy gold, go to the market and buy the book. Hello, pay to win.

[Succubus Lilith]

This thread is just begging to be locked, begging to be moderated.

 

In the meantime, one can only watch how deep this can go...

[Caex]

1 minute ago, mihwK said:

Proove what? YOU can buy gold in game with the currency exchange = you can buy the 400g book other people have to spend time for.

THE GAME allows you to buy gold, so you can simply buy 400g, proove what? What proove do you need? You are funny man :D

just because you have a CHOICE doesnt make it pay to win you pleb. I have yet to see anyone i know go out buy gold just to buy a stupid scroll...

 

your conspiracy is done leave this thread where it is dead on the ground and walk out

[Megapixel]

Oooh this is a juicy trollpost aint it? Well since I'm here lemme just stick the tip in for a sec. The Op is obviously new to the whole "endgame" system. He hit 45 and was like ooooooooh sheeeeeit, I'm broke than a mofo and can't upgrade my sheeit. I need to go tell somebody how angry I am....OOOH OOOH I KNOW. lemme go troll the forums with yet another P2W post. Hey Op, if the mmo is starting to *cricket* u off then take ur lazy ass outside and get some fresh air. Find some real carbon-based lifeforms to play with. Just a lil FYI, this game is not pay to win. It's just a Korean grinder. There's a difference Teddy Brosevelt.

[Lacha]

This community ROCKS!...

 

/sigh

[mihwK]

Some of the post I can't tell if just stupid or troll.

 

These HM books increase your dmg significantly. Your second skill page does not.

A warlock with the 400g book, does ALOT more dmg than the Warlock without the book, it's pure power. You should not be able to buy this power with money and circumvent all the farming. Pay to win baby, pay to win.

[Farrangis]

Ughh what? Urbandictionary....? Anyone with a common sense or at least half a brain can interpret the 3 words Pay to Win. I can save you the hassle and repeat again that Pay To Win is an element that is introduced to the game that help players to gain tremendously amount of advantage over other players like attack power/defense/evasion/etc.... And that so called Pay To Win element can "only" and "only" be obtained in one single way which is via Real Money like Cash shop items/currencies. So how does skill book is a pay to win to you?

 

Can you farm it directly in the game? Yes, you can.

Is it on sale in Cash Shop? No.

Do you have to buy money from gold sellers or sell Ncoins to get gold to get the skill book? No, you don't. 

Can you save up money to buy it? Yes, you can.

 

In anyway, as long as the items can be obtained in a normal way by farming in game and not bought directly from cash shop via real money. That item can't be called as Pay To Win. Get your fact right and get off urban dictionary.

 

And now don't cry why the books are overpriced. If you don't know much about Supply and Demand, please search that up. Those book prices are controlled by players, not by NCSoft. Book drop rate are low, hence why the price are over priced. Plus, 4 man BSH are hard to many people, resulting in fewer people running a 4 man and the consequence is fewer supply of books. 

 

If you can't farm it, then it's your problem

If you don't have enough money, then start saving.

If you only do arena, then sell the soulstone.

 

Just don't come on forum and cry about everything that you can't obtain and judge it as a Pay2Win simply because you suck at farming for it.

 

The time it takes you to complain on forum for hours just for something you can't have simply by farming can already get you in a few runs of 4man bsh.

 

Edit: You kept saying people can wave their credit cards and using real money to buy in game gold to buy the books, and that's what make it P2W. P2W is only a valid argument if and only if a free-to-play players can't obtain something in game if they don't pay real money for it. Your argument is more valid if you meant Pay to progress faster

 

[gothicshark]

4 minutes ago, mihwK said:

Proove what? YOU can buy gold in game with the currency exchange = you can buy the 400g book other people have to spend time for.

THE GAME allows you to buy gold, so you can simply buy 400g, proove what? What proove do you need? You are funny man :D

 

While guy A has to earn the book by running BSH or by farming gold, guy B can simply wave his credit card and buy gold, go to the market and buy the book. Hello, pay to win.

Clearly you have never played a p2w game then. 

Look up 'A perfect world', or any of the games they have. Those are true pay-to-win games. where you can buy for real money only, special power boosts for your character. 

 

[RyceCream]

Just now, mihwK said:

Some of the post I can't tell if just stupid or troll.

 

These HM books increase your dmg significantly. Your second skill page does not.

A warlock with the 400g book, does ALOT more dmg than the Warlock without the book, it's pure power. You should not be able to buy this power with money and circumvent all the farming. Pay to win baby, pay to win.

 

My posts are about as serious as yours.

That second skill book right there saves me about 15s of my valuable time when I need to respec for different mechanics. I'm saving a whole 15s for purchasing an item off the store. It also lets me get into PvP faster for the bean farms.

[mihwK]

1 minute ago, gothicshark said:

Clearly you have never played a p2w game then. 

Look up 'A perfect world', or any of the games they have. Those are true pay-to-win games. where you can buy for real money only, special power boosts for your character. 

 

Just bcause you can earn the items without money doesn't mean it's not p2w, I've already linked you the meaning of the word.

 

If you can skip all the hard work just by buying the stuff it's pay to win. You can simply buy that book, and your character will be better than the others, even tho you didn't invest as much time as them. You will win games in Arena bcause you were able to wave your credit card, since you didn't need to farm the book or the gold and so skipped ahead of time to actually earn it by ingame means.

[mihwK]

4 minutes ago, RyceCream said:

 

My posts are about as serious as yours.

That second skill book right there saves me about 15s of my valuable time when I need to respec for different mechanics. I'm saving a whole 15s for purchasing an item off the store. It also lets me get into PvP faster for the bean farms.

Convenience is not power, now you are trolling tho.

[Viconia]

This is hilarious, how people love to justify their weaknesses by using term "P2W". This game is definetly not pay to win, and if you want to get everything for doing nothing, u should change game.

 

[mihwK]

5 minutes ago, Viconia said:

This is hilarious, how people love to justify their weaknesses by using term "P2W". This game is definetly not pay to win, and if you want to get everything for doing nothing.

 

What weaknesses? I'm diamond, I have over 500g waiting for my warlock, and that is over 500g + 31 transformation stones + 25AP gem, etc.

What weakness? I will not fking drop 400g for an insanely expensive book, I did earn the right to own that book tho.

(If I should decide to still go through with it, I will not buy this stupid book and give some trash 400g)

 

Other people can buy it in mere seconds, they do not deserve that book. Neither will I give some kid 400g, end of story.

 

You have to realize, at no point in this thread have I ever stated I can't buy that thing. I'm very confident most of the kids who are replying to me tho, are not as wealthy as I am ingame. I have earned my way to the win.

 

I still farmed for this stuff, I have earned it fair and square, while other people can simply buy it without lifting a single finger. PAY TO WIN.

[gothicshark]

2 minutes ago, mihwK said:

Just bcause you can earn the items without money doesn't mean it's not p2w, I've already linked you the meaning of the word.

 

If you can skip all the hard work just by buying the stuff it's pay to win. You can simply buy that book, and your character will be better than the others, even tho you didn't invest as much time as them. You will win games in Arena bcause you were able to wave your credit card, since you didn't need to farm the book or the gold and so skipped ahead of time to actually earn it by ingame means.

Pay to win, implies only one business model. Item that can only  be obtained with real money, is needed to win. 

 

World of Warcraft allows you to buy gold, it works out two 30k per $20, depending on server. you can fully gear up for low level pvp buy purchasing gear on the auction house, is WOW p2w? No.

This is the same business model, Pay for convenience. 

Items which can only be gotten through playing the game can be sold on the auction house, and you can convert real money into game currencies. 

 

and don't link the hogwash that is urban dictionary, otherwise someone might make a definition you wont like.

[Keichi]

Do you know "pay to win" means "pay with real money" and not "pay with in game money" ? Once you'll understand it, your life will be much more better.

[mihwK]

1 minute ago, Keichi said:

Do you know "pay to win" means "pay with real money" and not "pay with in game money" ? Once you'll understand it, your life will be much more better.

Yeah, and once you read the money turns into gold part, which everyone in this thead understood except of you, your life might turn to the better aswel. All the power to you.

[RyceCream]

10 minutes ago, mihwK said:

Convenience is not power, now you are trolling tho.

 

I assure you I'm completely serious. That's a lot of precious time saved for farming beans which equates to gold. I gain a direct advantage over free players because I sold a bit of gold on CE. That's your definition of P2W

[mihwK]

2 minutes ago, gothicshark said:

Pay to win, implies only one business model. Item that can only  be obtained with real money, is needed to win. 

 

World of Warcraft allows you to buy gold, it works out two 30k per $20, depending on server. you can fully gear up for low level pvp buy purchasing gear on the auction house, is WOW p2w? No.

This is the same business model, Pay for convenience. 

Items which can only be gotten through playing the game can be sold on the auction house, and you can convert real money into game currencies. 

 

and don't link the hogwash that is urban dictionary, otherwise someone might make a definition you wont like.

You link a better source then stating I'm wrong, and your definition is right.

[Dray0s]

1 hour ago, mihwK said:

I would like to have the defending people of this game explain me how this is not pay to win:

 

BM /  Warlock / BD - BSH 4man Skill Books

 

These Books:

- have a price of 400g+!

- they increase the power of the character tremendously

 

I tried to inform myself over the Warlock, and people say the book will increase the DMG by 70%.

I've watched MANY youtube videos, where ppl would talk about builds and specifically say "you can't do this without the BSH book".

 

A person willing to spend irL money, is able to buy Gold and with that, able to buy these insanely overpriced books.

If I face a mirror match in arena as any of the stated classes above, the game will be unfair. It's not an even match at all, and my enemy has the potential to buy this power = pay to win.

 

Whiteknights (fanboys) assemble!

 

 

not to defend the game or counteract ur argument.

 

I noticed u wrote "400g".. which is ingame currency... Which is Earnt only through cash store?..... ur statements reads nothing more then "if ur lazy don't want to put hours in the game and cant be assed to learn Methods of Money making THIS Cashbuying scheme is there for u"..

 

I'm sorry I aint going to argue if this games p2w or not.

 

but p2w is When u can make micro-transaction purchases that makes Ur stats/Damage/Survivability Higher then what a free to play character is capable of. u can farm these books, u can farm gold to buy these books, many have reported making several hundreds quite easy playing the market, also u could of been farming Soulstones, as their prices are abit to increase MASSIVELY due to the release of the warlock.

 

Reason I aint fighting if its p2w, because It simply does not matter, a Free to Play game, isn't ment to be FREE, its ment to get ur money through Ingame products rather then gating you out of the game til u pay, the game NEEDS to make money, they cant simply NOT make a profit in the game, Welcome to the world NOTHINGS free, u either pay for entertainment or u get the bare minimum.

 

Flat out P2W would be selling Legendary weapons on the cash store with 0 method to earn it in the game.

 

Locking Weapon upgrades Past infernal to Subscription players only.

 

Selling stat increasers that free players cannot achieve.

 

Everything else is Boarderline p2w at best, and that's all this is, its obtainable through the game, its just not practical for everyones life style, that's Called Pay for Convience, not far off P2w in concept, but its a Big difference in the extreme measurements of the catagories.

 

Pay to win is Selling Direct Advantages a f2p player cannot reach, for example selling Extra Damage modifiers on your weapons for rl cash with no access to f2p, or locking upgrades to Premium.

 

Pay for Convience is Selling items which give players a Time advantage over the next person, giving the person to highest gear that's in the game, which otherwise would have taken large consumptions of time which a player may not of had to be able to manage the progression.

 

at best, their selling u Progression Not Power, they're not enhancing you in any way or giving u any advantages they're Sellingf the Progressive system of the game as a Bypass method,

 

for example take a Maze.

 

everyone may enter the maze for free to win their reward, there is a perfectlyt viable Route to the Centre for everyone to figure out leading to the Centre of the maze to earn that prize, everyone gets the exact same prize, no matter how long it takes or what they do to earn it, identical results, One guy Pays to have the item given to him without entering the maze, Is anyone Unable to get that prize, No everyone can earn it, however some people wont have the time to dedicate to getting through the maze, and Some people will spend ALOT more time earning that prize.

[mihwK]

4 minutes ago, RyceCream said:

 

I assure you I'm completely serious. That's a lot of precious time saved for farming beans which equates to gold. I gain a direct advantage over free players because I sold a bit of gold on CE. That's your definition of P2W

I know, that trolling part was meant as an insult.

 

If you farmed that gold ingame, then you bought it earning it ingame.

How do you feel about people who didn't have to farm anything, they bought that advantage without doing anything?

 

There is a diffrence turning gold into ingame currency, and turning real life money into gold. So no, I still stand right.

REAL MONEY, should not get you ANY advantages in arena, hell, I don't want them to get any advantages in PvE either. I don't want anyone to get better just because they bought their gear/materials/books/what ever...

 

If you farm gold, and then buy your skill book with that farmed gold it's not the same thing as buying it with $$$.

[gothicshark]

2 minutes ago, DoowieEU said:

Notice how he is ignoring people giving valid reply, who shows he is wrong :D

no worries, this time tomorrow my definition for play-to-win will be up, and I added a second word to the dictionary, so yah fun times.

[GreenBunionSoup]

You are complaining about the wrong thing, man. 400 gold is insanely steep, no one in their right mind would pay enough money for that. If the rate of Ncoin to gold was 1 gold per 70 NCoin, that would be 28000 Ncoin, without factoring in the fees and whatnot. What you should be complaining about is the absolute horrendous system we have when it comes to obtaining skills. RNG screws us a crap ton when farming for them when we can get every single skillbook for every class. The price is so high because of how immense RNG affects our ability to get the skills we want

[RyceCream]

1 minute ago, gothicshark said:

no worries, this time tomorrow my definition for play-to-win will be up, and I added a second word to the dictionary, so yah fun times.

 

Did you define it as "pulling an OP"?

[mihwK]

16 minutes ago, Dray0s said:

 

 

mihwK, I love you, you are so right.

 

 

You can make money with the skins. They are already trying to make money with inventory space, etc.

But that book is offering massive power to those 3 classes, and getting it is alot of work.

 

In a game which is marketed as "esports" you can't force people to farm PvE/PvP for weeks and offer others to buy these powers for money and simply skipping all the hard work. They can make money in other ways, why the hell do they have to sell gold?!

 

If a Diamond BM with book plays a Diamond BM without book, and we simply assume he bought the book with $$$, it's not fair at all. Selling something as esport has fairness in it's name, it has to be fair. Touching this topic we have the issue with Hongmoon Levels aswel, the games in arena simply aren't fair if people can buy stuff and have a stronger character instantly. Now before we get the idiots, I'm not saying HM Levels are p2w, I'm just saying it's another thing which makes arena not the way it's supposed to be in order to qualify as an Esport.

 

You can't buy skills in League of Legends and simply have a better Hero than your enemy.

You can't buy better weapons in CS:GO and have your AK do more DMG.

You can't buy better skills again in World of Warcraft Arena and have a better hero that way.

 

You can buy these HM Books, and have a better BM than your enemys BM. Your Character is literally stronger, even tho you play the same class. This is not to be confused with beeing able to buy a completely new Hero.

 

This game has a vision which this buy gold design does not fit into.

[GreenBunionSoup]

Wow, he really does ignore any logical post directed at him