Sign in to follow this  
apilado

what is minimum required gears to enter bsh 4man heroic dungeon?

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Victorion2 said:

 

You´re just too inexperienced really.

The statements you make, are clearly based on prejudice and inexperience.

 

Some classes are more tankier than others. This being KFM and BM - while Sin is the most squishy, Destroyers doesn´t tank all bosses well - and FMs just kites the bosses around, making it difficult to get proper combos through.

 

Teamwork and experience is essence.

WE RE TALKING ABOUT RANDOM TEAMS WE GET IN CROSS SV DUNGEONS.
And who are you to say i'm inexperienced, i did this instance TONS of times.
I can trust my clannies who have full awk infernal and a true profone to easily clear that dungeon together,but this is NOT about trustworthy people.

But whatever, you're just too cold minded to understand imo.
I'm happy for you if you are able to add anything to your team that way or at least think you do!

Edited by HailNKill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EvaRench   

minimum required to enter any 4 man dungeons :

3 good friends

believe me , even if you are well equiped , you will sometime find yourself team up with someone 

whom steal tank aggro

whom die fast 

whom fall off cliff

whom afk loots

whom bid money sucking

whom don't know how to runaway from mobs

etc and etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bartas   
3 minutes ago, HailNKill said:

WE RE TALKING ABOUT RANDOM TEAMS WE GET IN CROSS SV DUNGEONS.
And who are you to say i'm inexperienced, i did this instance TONS of times.
I can trust my clannies who have full awk infernal and a true profone to easily clear that dungeon together,but this is NOT about trustworthy people.

But whatever, you're just too cold minded to understand imo.
I'm happy for you if you are able to add anything to your team that way or at least think you do!

 

I am following this topic closely and I must agree that we should discuss random groups met in CS not guild groups of ppl who know each other. I was doing this instance few times with friends and it seemed very easy for me untill I joined random group via lobby. We barely got pass first boss when half of the group dropped due to broken weapons :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bumlife said:

I think I have a better line up. kudos to you.
3 People:
1 BM good dodging and can catch aggro when it matters.
1 Summoner DPS and off tank.
1 Summoner full DPS. All spec at crit and damage.

1st Run: at 400k HP of MM, Bm and 1 Smnr broke weapon. Rage @ 80k HP. Ran out of time.

2nd Run: Finished it in time.

I believe roles, positioning and communication are primary matters when doing this.
Survivability depends on team work.
 

 

for 3 person party, my optimal would be:

 

1) Good BM tank

2) Summoner support tank + dps

3) FM for DPS and party iFrames

 

Reason for this, is that

- a good BM will tank better than any summoner.

- Summoner heal, dps and tank support is great, and he also have party iframe.

- FM reaches higher dps than summoner and his party iframes are more reliable.

 

3 minutes ago, HailNKill said:

WE RE TALKING ABOUT RANDOM TEAMS WE GET IN CROSS SV DUNGEONS.
And who are you to say i'm inexperienced, i did this instance TONS of times.
I can trust my clannies who have full awk infernal and a true profone to easily clear that dungeon together,but this is NOT about trustworthy people.

But whatever, you're just too cold minded to understand imo.
I'm happy for you if you are able to add anything to your team that way or at least think you do!

 

You´re too inexperienced.

If you´ve done random teams enough, you´d know that you have to talk to your party members about their role and if necessary - school them about what to do.

I never failed a dungeon random team run - when it gets close, I tell everybody to wait, and explain how we clear it. Always succeeded - even with 2 ignorant assasins that kept permastealthing on boss and a destroyer that kept pulling aggro but couldnt handle it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Victorion2 said:

 

for 3 person party, my optimal would be:

 

1) Good BM tank

2) Summoner support tank + dps

3) FM for DPS and party iFrames

 

Reason for this, is that

- a good BM will tank better than any summoner.

- Summoner heal, dps and tank support is great, and he also have party iframe.

- FM reaches higher dps than summoner and his party iframes are more reliable.

 

 

You´re too inexperienced.

If you´ve done random teams enough, you´d know that you have to talk to your party members about their role and if necessary - school them about what to do.

I never failed a dungeon random team run - when it gets close, I tell everybody to wait, and explain how we clear it. Always succeeded - even with 2 ignorant assasins that kept permastealthing on boss and a destroyer that kept pulling aggro but couldnt handle it.

Yes i'm too inexperienced,i probably saw more skills dropped than your age.
Again i'm happy to see you live in world of rainbows and ice cream trucks where you tell people what to do,they instantly get pro in that  1 RUN you teach them.
Anyways i don't feel like typing anything else to you,i made my statements already,i don't care about your "experience" with this instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HailNKill said:

Yes i'm too inexperienced,i probably saw more skills dropped than your age.
Again i'm happy to see you live in world of rainbows and ice cream trucks where you tell people what to do,they instantly get pro in that  1 RUN you teach them.
Anyways i don't feel like typing anything else to you,i made my statements already,i don't care about your "experience" with this instance.

 

It´s not that hard really.

Like, Poh4mans.

 

I had one run, where my 2 teammates died to slashimi. The Sin still alive decided to stealth it out while I had already used my party iframe and my true friend iframe to buy some more time for the party survivabilty. We all died, and I told everybody to try again after they reset.

This time I told the group to only focus slashimi and the sin who was badly specced to pop a AP potion.

 

Result:

Slashimi died before his first dive, and my Petals and true friend + 30% hp potion were more than enough to not die.

 

That simply really. Doesn´t take a genius. Just takes experience.

 

I have tons of examples like this. People who don´t know how to run through BSH without getting aggro when you move from 1 boss to the next.

People who don´t know about their own skills and I tell them to respec and when to use it. Players that focus on dps, when they should pick up a boss to cancel a boss AoE - etc etc.

 

It´s really not masterful tactics, its simple small things, that makes a huge impact on success and fail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   

Most people look for around 400 Attack Power. Other's don't care. I'm personally fine if you have 360+ IF you know what you are doing. Usually I also prefer around the 400 range since those players are likely to have more experience. Likely, not always; sometimes I even see 400 attack range players do poorly in 4-man Poh. For tanks (especially if they have trouble holding aggro), I like them to be on the higher end of attack power since I, myself, have 444 atm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sh4rk3y   

Honestly i have done BSH 4man with three friends and our max AP was me as 372AP.

Everyone had infernal accessories and True Profane. We had no problem whatsoever on any boss, nor triggered any enrage.

I understand people want 400+ to have a fast run but when i see everyone just complaining and quitting due the gear, i have to ask myself if they are just gearcarried who want to facetank everything.

Edited by Sh4rk3y

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Enhance   

Ran with clan when most of us had true profane and infernal accessories and MWA soulshield. Aside from a hiccup on Bloodmane, no wipes and a smooth run.

 

So it really depends on you and your partymates having at least basic game/dungeon mechanic knowledge and playing together as a party. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   
13 minutes ago, Sh4rk3y said:

Honestly i have done BSH 4man with three friends and  our max AP was me as 372AP.

Everyone had infernal accessories and True Profane. We had no problem whatsoever on any boss, nor triggered any enrage.

I understand people want 400+ to have a fast run but when i see everyone just complaining and quitting due the gear, i have to ask myself if they are just gearcarried who want to facetank everything.

Facetank? I want to see how much more hits you can take with just a bit more hp or attack power. Most likely no extra big hits or one at most. I have nothing against decent attack power as I mentioned 2 post above, but I also tend to ask myself if lower attack power are just leecher who want to be carried. Then again, that goes back to my opinion that usually higher attack power means more experience. 

On a side note, I'm sure true profane is plenty if team knows what they are doing. I bet even infernal will do... Most enrage does NOT matter and you can fight through it if you know what you are doing. I beat Thrasher when he enraged at 200k hp. I beat bloodmane when he enraged at 500k hp. Only the final boss enrage is a bit... unavoidable. But if a party of infernal weapon knows what they are doing, getting the dps in should be no problem. BUT like I said, experience. Usually people would judge that by the gears. Fair? Not really, but there is no stats that show a player's skill and experience that we can go by. 

Edited by Naisho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Acelsg   

Actually you just need ping not more than 220 and people to listen eventhough they are unfamiliar with the mechanics. Once they start listening to instructions. Everything should be fine. Everything else is just additional. Pfft. You guys make it sound like its that hard. Come try leading hundreds of people for Master Level raids in old school DAoC then come talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sh4rk3y   
4 minutes ago, Naisho said:

Facetank? I want to see how much more hits you can take with just a bit more hp or attack power.

And that's the point. I've seen lot of elitists who think gear is everything and then they just sit there being a floormat because they can't iframe and hope their big stats will let them survive the hits.

Sure gear will help if you screw up from time to time, but if you don't know mechanics/rely on only on it, then i'd rather have a 350Ap who know what he's doing than a 400+ who dies at thrasher and ragequit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played with a guy using a summoner full geared..He kept dying everytime, on other run a BM using profrane. Needless to say I was hesitant,but we end up doing the dungeon so smoothly. It depends on how you play. Although gear helps a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   
8 minutes ago, Sh4rk3y said:

And that's the point. I've seen lot of elitists who think gear is everything and then they just sit there being a floormat because they can't iframe and hope their big stats will let them survive the hits.

Sure gear will help if you screw up from time to time, but if you don't know mechanics/rely on only on it, then i'd rather have a 350Ap who know what he's doing than a 400+ who dies at thrasher and ragequit.

I 100% agree. But in a situation you have player A with 350 ap and player B with 400 ap and you don't know if one is better than the other, most players would choose player B. Even I will; in that situation I would pick assuming that they are evenly skilled and 400 ap will yield a bit more result. I can be very wrong and the player with 350 ap is much better, but there is nothing that tells me that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taimatsu   

I've had people with 20k+ HP in my party clear and not die once because they were mech savvy and had either profane and or siren. You people who are saying othersl with this kind of HP are a burden need to step your game up.

Edited by Taimatsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   
5 minutes ago, Taimatsu said:

I've had people with 20k+ HP in my party clear and not die once because they were mech savvy and had either profane and or siren. You people who are saying othersl with this kind of HP are a burden need to step your game up.

Burden? Usually yes. I'm willing to bet that on AVERAGE, a player with 440 AP and 35k+ hp will do better than a player with 350 ap and 20k hp. If they are equally skilled, the one with more damage and hp will do more damage on average and benefit the team more. In term of skills, I'm willing to guess that players with better gear 'tends' to do better than those without. Always? No, of course not. I think saying that someone with lower ap is burden is somewhat correct if you do not know how well they play yet. I like to assume all pugs are equally skilled unless proven otherwise. If some 20k hp does indeed play better than some fully geared person, I have no qualm in picking him for the party instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Naisho said:

Burden? Usually yes. I'm willing to bet that on AVERAGE, a player with 440 AP and 35k+ hp will do better than a player with 350 ap and 20k hp. If they are equally skilled, the one with more damage and hp will do more damage on average and benefit the team more. In term of skills, I'm willing to guess that players with better gear 'tends' to do better than those without. Always? No, of course not. I think saying that someone with lower ap is burden is somewhat correct if you do not know how well they play yet. I like to assume all pugs are equally skilled unless proven otherwise. If some 20k hp does indeed play better than some fully geared person, I have no qualm in picking him for the party instead.

 

If I see a Level 45 with only 20K hp - then something is wrong. BSH adds from 18-24K extra hp - Endless 24-33K extra and Arena adds 21K extra HP.

With any of these or a combination of these, you should have at very least 27K hp.

 

And seeing someone trying to 4mans BSH with anything less than this - is a player that is:

a) overconfident and incompetent

b) incompetent and wants to be carried

c) incompetent and clueless

 

Because if he doesn´t know how to spend just an hour to farm arena soul shield - I can´t very well expect that person to teamplay or have any experience with boss patterns in BSH4mans.

 

 

However a person with 27K+ hp and only 350 AP is fine with me - as long as they can teamplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   
Just now, Victorion2 said:

 

If I see a Level 45 with only 20K hp - then something is wrong. BSH adds from 18-24K extra hp - Endless 24-33K extra and Arena adds 21K extra HP.

With any of these or a combination of these, you should have at very least 27K hp.

 

And seeing someone trying to 4mans BSH with anything less than this - is a player that is:

a) overconfident and incompetent

b) incompetent and wants to be carried

c) incompetent and clueless

 

Because if he doesn´t know how to spend just an hour to farm arena soul shield - I can´t very well expect that person to teamplay or have any experience with boss patterns in BSH4mans.

 

 

However a person with 27K+ hp and only 350 AP is fine with me - as long as they can teamplay.

Yup, it's easier for us to pick players using stats if we don't know how well they play. Doesn't mean they will do well, but it's kind of like insurance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sh4rk3y   
22 minutes ago, Naisho said:

I 100% agree. But in a situation you have player A with 350 ap and player B with 400 ap and you don't know if one is better than the other, most players would choose player B. Even I will; in that situation I would pick assuming that they are evenly skilled and 400 ap will yield a bit more result. I can be very wrong and the player with 350 ap is much better, but there is nothing that tells me that.

That is also true. I wish they could add a system like on Tera, where it says if someone is a rookie in a specific dungeon or he ran it a decent amount of times to be "skilled".

It still doesn't mean that every skilled person is good, because they could have just been carried for the whole time, but it's still better than having no clue at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reaper00   

Meh. People doing this sort of thing are most likely only doing it because they aren't confident enough in their own skills and need the comfort factor of running with people who could carry them in a pinch. They talk about wasting time, but how much time are they wasting by repeatedly joining and leaving parties through the dungeon party finder? If you have pre-requisites for running it then make a pre-made team and then go in, otherwise run with what you get and don't waste other people's time.

 

If the team repeatedly wipes because they refuse to listen to advice, then sure, leave then. But there's really no excuse for doing that before the first attack of the dungeon has even been made.

 

All those people saying you must have 400AP and 35K HP, does that mean I should kick you from my team because I have 450AP and 48K HP? Where exactly should the elitism and sense of entitlement end?

 

Edited by Reaper00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jozerra   
6 hours ago, deadmesa said:

It's a lot more about knowing the fights than having the right gear.

Oh yes,let's make a group all with 360 ap,take a year to defeat each boss and let them enrage due to low dps....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Naisho   
8 minutes ago, Reaper00 said:

Meh. People doing this sort of thing are most likely only doing it because they aren't confident enough in their own skills and need the comfort factor of running with people who could carry them in a pinch. They talk about wasting time, but how much time are they wasting by repeatedly joining and leaving parties through the dungeon party finder? If you have pre-requisites for running it then make a pre-made team and then go in, otherwise run with what you get and don't waste other people's time.

 

If the team repeatedly wipes because they refuse to listen to advice, then sure, leave then. But there's really no excuse for doing that before the first attack of the dungeon has even been made.

 

All those people saying you must have 400AP and 35K HP, does that mean I should kick you from my team because I have 450AP and 48K HP? Where exactly should the elitism and sense of entitlement end?

 

I think my tolerance is pretty high. I usually find myself leaving instantly only if there is some 320 ap on the team. During dungeons, if we wipe more than 2 times in a single boss because they obviously don't know what they are doing even after advice is thrown around, then I will also leave. The longest run I had was probably 3 hours; was outrageous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

true profane around 300 damage above.

but u need to be have knowledge for the dungeon~

and btw i got a little small tips for the dungeon that most of the ppl dint know.

we could reset arggo for the area that u need to jump down(like thrasher and bloodmane boss area where u have to jump down)
it might reset the mobs arggo when u jump down, then face back to the wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VRock   

400 AP+++ 50%Critical Rate that what was told to me in the lobby >,> i have 380 AP don't remember crit rate %  .... and got alone in the lobby

Edited by VRock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this