Permanent account closure: RMT: Selling

[Raloz]

3 minutes ago, Murgeth said:

Where did you get that post from?

 

Dojo Wrongfully bans are going out and people are still in-denial thread

[Smo]

27 minutes ago, Raloz said:

Julianne answer 1 min ago

 

Many autobans for these thing are the result of players reporting other players for spamming.

Because the community was very strong in voicing their displeasure at seeing all the gold spam that happened in the game, we enacted a lot of measures that would help us keep on top of it. Being falsely flagged as spamming through player reports is an unfortunate side effect.
Some players have legitimately spammed their "WTB XXXX" messages over and over and deserve to be reported with a temp ban because that sh** is annoying and it is spamming. It's not RMT but it is spamming and it does affect the player experience as much as gold spam does. 

 

So basically, they handed every player a perma ban hammer and decided to trust their discretion 100%?

Yeah who'd have thought people would abuse a report function? Every single human in NA is an angel with perfect morals how could this happen?!

 

okay seriously though.

 

If you give players a report function, it should only flag an account to be investigated.

Not flag it to be perma banned and then investigated later when they get emails from that person explaining that they were legit.

 

What the hell NCSoft. Seriously.

There's people who just go and report every person that makes them mad as a bot or spammer.

Hell I could've pissed off enough people just doing faction pvp and gotten banned for it.

This. SHOULD NOT. HAVE. HAPPENED. AT ALL.

Seriously perma banning should not happen automatically in the first place.
Temp bans yes, But a perma ban on people who have invested not just money, but their emotions and love, into this game should NOT happen without investigating the player. EVER.

I love this game. please don't kill it.

 

 

I feel so bad for everyone who was wrongfully banned because of this, I really hope this doesn't mess things up for the game now, and I seriously hope this doesn't stop anyone from playing warlock who was excited for it.

[ForGlory]

4 minutes ago, Smo said:

 

So basically, they handed every player a perma ban hammer and decided to trust their discretion 100%?

Yeah who'd have thought people would abuse a report function? Every single human in NA is an angel with perfect morals how could this happen?!

 

okay seriously though.

 

If you give players a report function, it should only flag an account to be investigated.

Not flag it to be perma banned and then investigated later when they get emails from that person explaining that they were legit.

 

What the hell NCSoft. Seriously.

There's people who just go and report every person that makes them mad as a bot or spammer.

Hell I could've pissed off enough people just doing faction pvp and gotten banned for it.

This. SHOULD NOT. HAVE. HAPPENED. AT ALL.

Seriously perma banning should not happen automatically in the first place.
Temp bans yes, But a perma ban on people who have invested not just money, but their emotions and love, into this game should NOT happen without investigating the player. EVER.

 

 

I feel so bad for everyone who was wrongfully banned because of this, I really hope this doesn't mess things up for the game now, and I seriously hope this doesn't stop anyone from playing warlock who was excited for it.

almost agree with you!

 

[Smo]

1 minute ago, ForGlory said:

almost agree with you!

 

 

I guess I can see how it'd be an issue to investigate each report when there's like tens of thousands of bots being reported
and yeah, this probably did end up getting rid of a HUGE amount of them, but they will just create new accounts....

 

I just sincerely hope this didn't affect too many legit players.

Most people aren't off work yet, so seeing how the number of support tickets has already exploded is worrying.

[lillywindy]

18 minutes ago, Smo said:

If you give players a report function, it should only flag an account to be investigated.

Not flag it to be perma banned and then investigated later when they get emails from that person explaining that they were legit.

 

 

thats typical EU logic. example for u:  bannfunction esxist for/against the goldsellers. thats the main idea. now U tell me, that rly ALL ppl report only this bots? for sure not. even i am reporting some ppl for hard spamming(not gold sellers) cuz they are annoying af. when u want NCsoft making the reported players/acc´s only banned for a time, u do agree with a time-bann only on the goldsellers aswell<---- does that make sence then? no, cuz then ppl complain again that more gold sellers are here and spamm da shit outa ya. u know what i wanna say?

[Smo]

4 minutes ago, lillywindy said:

thats typical EU logic. example for u:  bannfunction esxist for/against the goldsellers. thats the main idea. now U tell me, that rly ALL ppl report only this bots? for sure not. even i am reporting some ppl for hard spamming(not gold sellers) cuz they are annoying af. when u want NCsoft making the reported players/acc´s only banned for a time, u do agree with a time-bann only on the goldsellers aswell<---- does that make sence then? no, cuz then ppl complain again that more gold sellers are here and spamm da shit outa ya. u know what i wanna say?

 

Gold spammer gets banned: they create a new account, and continue gold spamming.

Legit player gets banned: they might just say screw it, never come back, as well as tell all their friends who were interested not to play as well.

 

Does that simplify it enough?

It's not worth it.

[lillywindy]

nah. as i said, some ppl get reported cuz they write a ton of bullshit tho. im even doing that myself and i can imagine that i got reported for such aswell(even tho i never got banned or something similiar like that).  some ppl just dont know when they should stop.

[NanaVanity]

Lilly,

 

What are you talking about? Ppl that go ahead using the block spammer function are seriously in the wrong here. You can use it on gold sellers but if someone is legitimately trying to sell moonwater transformation stones they are not at fault. A lot of ppl are reporting ppl for spamming as they call it the looking for party message. Well news flash, that is an automated message from the party finder function. No player is at fault for it cause the game autoposts the message every some seconds or smt.

 

Please use the block spammer button more wisely cause you would not wanna find yourself in that position.

[NC Elusive]

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

 

EDIT: TO BE CLEAR since many people have run off with this fun idea, reporting people for spamming does NOT result in a ban being instantly applied. I can see how there could be misinterpretation on my sentence above, but the point is that if enough people complain about spamming, you get put on the ban list not that if you get your whole clan to report someone for spamming then that account gets banned instantly.

 

Having said that, it is concerning that so many people got picked up like this. Could those who got banned for this reason send me a PM with their CS Support Ticket (even if the ban has been overturned) so we can investigate what happened and try to prevent it from happening again.

 

[freshdot]

1 minute ago, Smo said:

 

Gold spammerr gets banned: they create a new account, and continue gold spamming.

Legit player gets banned: they might just say screw it, never come back, as well as tell all their friends who were interested not to play as well.

 

Does that simplify it enough?

well, if my accont gets no ban lift i'm just going back to marvel heroes.... specially now that Magik had bugs fixed ( which was what made me look for a new game to play to start with)....

[lillywindy]

3 minutes ago, NC Elusive said:

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

good that some NC peep clarified what i was talking about :D  thank u for that

[freshdot]

1 minute ago, NC Elusive said:

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

No, not spamming faction, LFG, clan, nothing at all, so i dont really see a point in the ban... i dont even usually even write in the faction chat.. so, again i dont even see a reason for the ban.

[justrandomletters]

2 minutes ago, NC Elusive said:

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

 

Does this mean if you sign in in the dragonfires ( looking for Party ) which will automaticly search members or Group for you and also whrite this evry few min's in Chat ( i dont mean traveling to Lobby and looking for Party) that you can be reported and banned from the game for using in game mechanics?

[lillywindy]

3 minutes ago, freshdot said:

No, not spamming faction, LFG, clan, nothing at all, so i dont really see a point in the ban... i dont even usually even write in the faction chat.. so, again i dont even see a reason for the ban.

i forgot to admit here, i was about to missclick on a wrong person aswell (between the gold sellers), i just saw it at the name that i was about to missclick the report.  i can imagine that maybe that happens aswell sometimes D:

[ForGlory]

how long time we want waiting for remove perma? 

[freshdot]

1 minute ago, ForGlory said:

how long time we want waiting for remove perma? 

i'm at 6h at the moment....

[Smo]

3 minutes ago, lillywindy said:

i forgot to admit here, i was about to missclick on a wrong person aswell (between the gold sellers), i just saw it at the name that i was about to missclick the report.  i can imagine that maybe that happens aswell sometimes D:

 

I just think the system currently has way too much potential for abuse, and accidents like you just entailed.

 

I left cerulean for crimson just for the practice that the open world pvp would bring.

I've had what seemed like 15+ blues follow me and a few other reds from one channel to the next, simply because they were mad they had been killed a few times.

Nobody said a word to them, they still easily could have reported out of spite, just due to being salty about being killed.

Am I gonna have to give up on open world pvp now to avoid making people mad, because they all have the power to abuse such a system?

[ForGlory]

2 minutes ago, freshdot said:

i'm at 6h at the moment....

me to 6 h ... and don`t have any answer on my mail . even i send 3 repost...

 

[Jordan90]

Just now, NC Elusive said:

 

No.

NC Elusive, 

 

and what if people think its spam and therefore still report you? same goes for guildleader recruitment messages

[NC Elusive]

11 minutes ago, justrandomletters said:

 

Does this mean if you sign in in the dragonfires ( looking for Party ) which will automaticly search members or Group for you and also whrite this evry few min's in Chat ( i dont mean traveling to Lobby and looking for Party) that you can be reported and banned from the game for using in game mechanics?

 

No.

[Raloz]

Im now over 3 days after all questions they asked me 

[Nalroz]

Fundamentally flawed if NC Soft go around and permanently banning genuine players then ask questions later. Any normal business would respect their customer base before making such a radical response. My girlfriend was banned and we've been waiting more than 12 hours. Its been 7 hours since she received a response. She has never spammed anything in chat, we're both mature players just duo'ing together. We spent £200 buying the master pack and have the premium membership. Seems NC Soft don't give a damn. They really shoudl change this act first ask questions later policy.

 

Gold selling isn't a new problem and Blade and Soul isn't NC Soft's first MMO, so come on......., apply some common sense and business sense!!!!

[NanaVanity]

19 minutes ago, NC Elusive said:

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

I do understand where you are coming from but this logic does not apply to everything. I have not spammed a single thing in chat and I rarely write in faction/region or any of those chats. I am using them to say to ppl which channel poharan is up on or the mystery man but that is about it. I am using the party finder a lot and I know of ppl that report block others for that reason cause they don't want to see it but how am I at fault for a system message. Please do not put all the weight on us cause that is unfair.

 

I have already lost 14 hours of my gametime already that I will not be reimbursed for that even if my ban is lifted. You can't seriously permantly ban people in that way especially if it is for the reason of writing something that people didn't like seeing. We are all allowed our opinions and if it is not insulting or a personal attack there is not enough grounds for a permanent ban. I have done the arena and gotten people wishing for me to get cancer just cause I won and I have had people whispering me all sort of curses and swear words just because I killed them before they killed me, so I can do my dailies. If all those ppl reported everyone that killed them or won over them in the arena you can't say "it is justifiable to be banned for a vendetta" cause effectivily you are saying that when saying that it is justifiable if ppl didn't like what you said. If they did not want to get killed they should not have played there in the first place. We all run the risk of being ganged or killed while doing dailies etc but some of us respond to it with banter and some just spam the report button.

[Loather]

Just got my account unbanned after being banned for no reason at all.
Only took 11 hours......
Their banning process clearly needs to be reworked as this is clearly not acceptable.
I am still pissed as hell and my currently feeling is that I will not put a single penny into the shop to resub my premium and/or apperance items, will see how I feel about it in a day or two.
If I put any more money into my account I will treat it the same as setting it on fire as I will not even be sure I get to utilize it incase I randomly get banned again.

As many people have talked about the reason might be due to selling things on marketplace / talking in chat, I have sold 3 items total and spoken less then 10 sentences in chat (and this has been in say to another player asking questions that I helped with).

Their banning process is just ludicrous.

[Nalroz]

25 minutes ago, NC Elusive said:

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. As someone quoted me from Dojo, being flagged for RMT selling usually means that other players have reported you.

 

More than likely you have spammed a message over and over, annoying enough people that they reported you for spamming OR that you spammed it enough in a short period of time that it triggered our detection system. It's not one report from one player that causes insta-ban, but there is a threshold that is met before the ban takes place. So, lesson number 1: don't spam your message because it IS annoying. This goes for WTB messages, LFP messages, Clan recruitment messages (outside of the automated messages that LFP and Clan Recruitment post), and anything else that falls under spam category.

 

Yes, this system also has potential for abuse. There is no perfect system that allows for us to achieve our goals and you to achieve yours. Gold spam was a huge complaint, so we enacted measures to stay on top of it. We'll be doing the same for botting. If it becomes a scenario that the system of reporting is resulting in significant player abuse, we'll re-evaluate and weigh the benefits of having fewer people on a temporary ban ("temporary" because as soon as you submit an appeal, it will get lifted) with more gold spam in the channels.

 

Finally, some people may have reported you for spamming when you wrote some pretty heinous stuff in Faction/Region chat. It's not spam, per se, but since there's no clear way to report players for inappropriate conduct in the game, there is a possibility that enough people didn't like what you said and submitted a spamming report.

 

 

TL;DR: Be a respectable human being online (not annoying, not offensive) so that other ppl won't report you so you won't get a ban.

Rather than seek to try and justify this error, accept that the 1000's of people affected and complaining can't all be wrong, undo the error you made and go back to the drawing board with a proper resolution that doesn't involve banning innocent players. Making the error on this scale is one thing, but posting that it is players faults is inexcusible.