Rikazuchi

Yelled at FOR tanking!?

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Luffs   
2 hours ago, Hoopla said:

People like this will start crying once Naryu 4 man and lvl 50+ content 4 man dungeons release.

 

This game REQUIRES a tank for future content. It isn't just a DPS zergfest like Guild Wars 2.

 

OT: Never had a problem with losing aggro as a KFM, I guess BM need a few moments to hold aggro because KFM can get it right away if you are doing 2rf ani cancel perfectly. I have yet to see a BM tank (KFM tank for that matter as well) so great job on you OP.

 

 

 

Like I said in previous topics.. its generally the idiots that stack 3k critical and have absolutely no defense / counter / evasion, either pull aggro and die, or have trouble running through the map and need other players to carry them

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BroZartZ   

My gf rages about the same thing (She mains a tank BM like you and is very good at it) which is why we only duo everything together unless our clanmates want to organize dungeon runs. We don't have the time nor patience to deal with annoying Cat aggro and people who don't listen or ignore the concept (Don't even get me started on those derpy scrubs who launch enemies into the air). These things put the potentially good Tanks on tilt and makes everything far too chaotic to handle. It also stumps the DPS potential. Theoretically speaking, DPS with a proper tank (And minimum knock-ups) is stronger than DPS with aggro juggling. But hey, people get away with it due to the game's design. Unfortunately,  it's unavoidable.

 

So my advice to you is to find a partner or a group that will give you that window of opportunity to hold aggro. Stay exclusive and get things done privately.

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rocdog   
1 hour ago, okitaluc said:

Most of the content don't need specific tank to do, so people don't care if you are tanking or not. If you are good go tank bw , in this case people will be glad for you to tanking because it make easier to kill him.

 

KFM / BM / Cat have threat generation skills to hold aggro

 

Cats do not have aggro generation.  Cats have a taunt, which is very different.

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Jinjii   

Cats can't hold aggro, not to mention the aggro will immediately flicker to the next person on the aggro table after the 8seconds of taunting is up, then you have to wait 4 seconds for the skill to be off cd to do it again.

BM = best tanks in this game, let them tank.

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Naekuh   

meh im a BM also..

 

if i lose agro, i try to get it back by spamming my highest dps rotation which usually works until a uber 470atk FM in our party decides to NUKE to boss with her biggest rotation. 

 

Then i just give up and just poke the boss to death while the FM is trying to kite cuz i cant tank anymore.  

 

But honestly....  even if you give the party 10s, all it takes is a uber Force Master, or a Scummoner doing the proper ani cancels with good rotations to steal your agro...   he doesnt even need the cat.  

 

Im guessing this is where u need lots of Threat which im willing to bet a lot of BM's which are losing agro dont have.  

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okitaluc   
15 minutes ago, rocdog said:

 

Cats do not have aggro generation.  Cats have a taunt, which is very different.

 

If they don't generate aggro they could not hold aggro from others players simple as that , the cat is not outdpsing everyone to hold aggro just with damage done ...

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Quote

Like I said in previous topics.. its generally the idiots that stack 3k critical and have absolutely no defense / counter / evasion, either pull aggro and die, or have trouble running through the map and need other players to carry them

 

This is incorrect. If you look at the tank spec BMs in other regions, they all prioritize Crit rate, Crit damage, and Attack Power. No BM specs defense, block, and evasion.

 

Your damage is mitigated by proper use of your iFrames, and your Block, the skill Block, not RNG block. By relying on iFrames and Block, you control your tanking. It's not about RNG defensive stats like other games. This is not WoW.

 

In Blade and Soul, the tank's job is to hold aggro, survive using the methods mentioned above, and put down as much dps as he possibly can while holding aggro. If you spec your Soulshields to have block, evade, defense, you're only doing half your job.

 

My point is, in games like WoW, you have dedicated healers spamming heal on you. Blade and Soul doesn't have that, so us tanks don't have the luxury of being able to face tank bosses. We must evade attacks manually by moving, blocking if we have to, and using iFrames to negate damage dealt. By spec'ing defensively like you said, even with all your threat generating buffs, you won't be able to hold aggro vs. any well geared dps, without being able to output enough dps yourself.

Edited by TheRealBronx

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Oishii   

I really appreciate good tanks, they are very rare though. Sad there is players trying to discourage BMs or KFMs from tanking.

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Think of this scenario:

 

Party has 2 BMs. 1 BM is spec'd defensively, meaning he has high block, evade, and defense. The other BM is spec'd offensively, with high crit, crit damage, and attack power.

 

Even with threat buffs, the BM with defensive Soulshields will not be able to steal aggro from the offensive spec'd BM, because the difference is DPS is too high for the threat buff to make up.

 

What ends up happening in this case is, BM1 is pretty much useless, as he cannot take aggro off BM2, who is spec'd properly for the job, and since BM1 prioritized defense, his dps contribution is that of half a player, making him a waste of a party slot.

 

The only way for BM1 to succeed at his goal of tanking, is if the rest of the party is well under geared in comparison to the BM, or the party throttles their DPS to accommodate for their tank lacking offensive stats. Either way, it's a slower kill, than if the BM were properly equipped to do his job.

Edited by TheRealBronx

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Hoopla   
2 hours ago, Luffs said:

 

Like I said in previous topics.. its generally the idiots that stack 3k critical and have absolutely no defense / counter / evasion, either pull aggro and die, or have trouble running through the map and need other players to carry them

Except you don't need to stack defense or anything in this game to tank. All you need to focus on is crit + accuracy + piercing.... Evasion later on matters a bit but definitely not as important as crit.

 

You shouldn't be getting hit at all as a KFM/BM tank in the first place. Use counter and block to negate damage while using i-frames for unblockable skills. DPS + Threat skill = tanking in this game. Threat skill alone will not hold aggro for you, you need to put in top tier DPS as well.

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33 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

Think of this scenario:

 

Party has 2 BMs. 1 BM is spec'd defensively, meaning he has high block, evade, and defense. The other BM is spec'd offensively, with high crit, crit damage, and attack power.

 

Even with threat buffs, the BM with defensive Soulshields will not be able to steal aggro from the offensive spec'd BM, because the difference is DPS is too high for the threat buff to make up.

 

What ends up happening in this case is, BM1 is pretty much useless, as he cannot take aggro off BM2, who is spec'd properly for the job, and since BM1 prioritized defense, his dps contribution is that of half a player, making him a waste of a party slot.

 

The only way for BM1 to succeed at his goal of tanking, is if the rest of the party is well under geared in comparison to the BM, or the party throttles their DPS to accommodate for their tank lacking offensive stats. Either way, it's a slower kill, than if the BM were properly equipped to do his job.

Im sorry but this is not true. 

 

THE ONLY reason I started to learn how to tank in the 1st place is because 1 day in BSH a super geared FM "yelled" at me back then For NOT tanking.....irony 

So I did lots of research and in game practice 

tried -crit flicker - honed slash , some random seemingly useless skills , poke ...all that

 

Until I found this 1 magic combo that apparently "Cant hold aggro"...but guess what It does!

 

But then 1 day I click LFG 4man BSH, immediately joined only to be immediately laughed at for being BM (Not gear which at the time was 396Ap But BM).

 

I asked "were u guys hoping for a Sum?" 

   The FM said "No we Need a Tank"

 

Me: "Oh well thats Me!"

FM:"No BMs Cant tank"

Me:"Yes", "Yes I can"

FM: "No you cant"

Me: "Umm yes"

FM: "I WILL BET GOLD U CANT HOLD AGGRO"

Me: "lol ez money"

 

(even others in the grp already advised me against taking the bet and to inspect him)

 

I walk alll the way to the Last Boss

I inspect the FM . Lets just say His gear was top notch I get why He felt that way.

I said "All I need Is 10s"

 

The Fight went smooth never lost aggro BUT everyone died But me due to Missile dropping (Cant tank that)

I was the only 1 left but soon also Died due to messing up iFrames (Blah).

 

Next try same thing smooth fight But we won this time. FM Over Bid on an item as a way of paying me for winning the bet.

Then literally said "Always Nice to be proven wrong" "Too bad not many BMs are like you" "Do you use Poke?"...etc

 

Anyway sorry for long post but you get it . 

Im serious when i say I wont lose aggro just let me get my 5-10s. 

Edited by Rikazuchi

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You're not getting the point.

 

As a tank BM, you want high dps. without it, you can't hold aggro. Can't hold aggro = bad tank.

 

If we're in the same party together, and my gear is superior to yours, you will not be tanking, good sir. Our skill builds will be nearly identical, the only difference is, the better geared tank will generate more threat.

 

If you're the tank with less dps, you're going to be just that. Less DPS. You can't hold aggro, because your DPS is lacking compared to the other BM, so you're forced into being a back-up tank incase the main tank dies, or you end up being a wet noodle DPS as a result of your weak stats.

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2 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

You're not getting the point.

 

As a tank BM, you want high dps. without it, you can't hold aggro. Can't hold aggro = bad tank.

 

If we're in the same party together, and my gear is superior to yours, you will not be tanking, good sir. Our skill builds will be nearly identical, the only difference is, the better geared tank will generate more threat.

 

If you're the tank with less dps, you're going to be just that. Less DPS. You can't hold aggro, because your DPS is lacking compared to the other BM, so you're forced into being a back-up tank incase the main tank dies, or you end up being a wet noodle DPS as a result of your weak stats.

You really wanna be right don't you?

 

either way this has nothing to do with my original Topic. Which is keeping aggro away from classes who "dont" want it . Youre a BM if we are in the same grp and you have better gear & want to tank why would I Fight you on that ?

 

I will simply switch to my second ALL DPS loadout and assist in killing the boss while you maintain aggro therefore basically going back to my original POST.

 

Let...The BM...Or KFM get his aggro.......

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Again, missing the point.

 

My post is to debate the effectiveness of spec'ing your Soulshields for offense, or defense, and the effects each option have on your performance.

 

I was pointing out that having defensive soulshields is pointless for tanking, because you will lack the necessary threat generation. Other posters were arguing that defensive soulshield stats are needed to tank, which is incorrect.

 

Skill build wise makes no difference, since all BM will have nearly identical skill builds for dungeon and raid PvE.

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7 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

Again, missing the point.

 

My post is to debate the effectiveness of spec'ing your Soulshields for offense, or defense, and the effects each option have on your performance.

 

I was pointing out that having defensive soulshields is pointless for tanking, because you will lack the necessary threat generation. Other posters were arguing that defensive soulshield stats are needed to tank, which is incorrect.

 

Skill build wise makes no difference, since all BM will have nearly identical skill builds for dungeon and raid PvE.

ok Maybe im not sure but who said I spec a defense soul shield? 

 

I currently run Mushin+Bloodshade 

 

I wish I had better RNG for the better Mushin Crit SS but instead I have THE best Bloodshade Crit SS + Infused with Moonwater Crit SS for Max crit I can get until I get better.

 

Im over  here sittin at about 2800+ Crit well above 50% crit rate.

 

Who the hell wares a defensive SS? 

 

Edit : also I just re read your Post Maybe I thought u directed your comment at me maybe I got confused somewhere and you were talking about others if so my apologies..

Edited by Rikazuchi

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3 hours ago, Luffs said:

Like I said in previous topics.. its generally the idiots that stack 3k critical and have absolutely no defense / counter / evasion, either pull aggro and die, or have trouble running through the map and need other players to carry them

 

 

^ My posts were mainly aimed at this guy and his opinion.

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1 minute ago, TheRealBronx said:

 

 

 

^ My posts were mainly aimed at this guy and his opinion.

don't know if u read my edit but again my apologies 

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Naekuh   

i dont think rikazuchi ever said he was spec'd as a tank... and he said his atk was 396, which means he was fairly geared.  

 

However Rika.. i still dont think u'll hold agro against a 450+ FM doing burning build, unless u had another FM in the group with auto detonate pissing off the 450+ FM with burn build.   XD  

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9 minutes ago, Naekuh said:

i dont think rikazuchi ever said he was spec'd as a tank... and he said his atk was 396, which means he was fairly geared.  

 

However Rika.. i still dont think u'll hold agro against a 450+ FM doing burning build, unless u had another FM in the group with auto detonate pissing off the 450+ FM with burn build.   XD  

aye believe me or not that FM in question in that story Had all pirate he was so geared I thought "How the fck did he afford this so early" if im correct he was 465 ap.

Which is why he made the bet and was so sure of his self.

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Arisha   
9 hours ago, Rikazuchi said:


For any BM's  someone asked how it is that I tank so here's what i do .

 

https://bnstree.com/BM?build=45010021004320143306322332321122138221053312642230112025414233603210032213211


I Start with 
 
Multislash > (Boss will hit during ) > cyclone > Q > Five point > dragon tongue > flicker x2 or x3 > dragon tongue >  flicker x2 or x3 > dragon tongue  > flicker x2 or x3 > dragon tongue
 
Rinse and repeat 
 
use other skills as u plz/need/Dps but thats the main aggro combo .
 
IMPORTANT Block whenever u need to pop cyclone(and not die also). With this block it does not have to be a timed block just take the hit and pop cyclone then jump into the rest of the combo.
 
Multislash is also very important as it gets in close/ does damage / makes you invincible/ And any hit during will activate cyclone.
 
Five point will get you the most threat in 5 hits, But you must land All 5 hits for all your threat (Don't cancel it unless you have to)
 
Dragontongue is gonna be the "oh shit" button to get aggro back /maintain while other skills are on CD. 
 
 
any other questions just ask 
 
Cheers ;) 


You should use Flicker + Honet Slash Anic insead of Dragontongue. Its basicaly the best way to deal DPS with a BM.

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sorry this game don't need any tank only for blackwyrm and maybe terrors, all the dgs any class can tank even at 4man

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Eased   
54 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

sorry this game don't need any tank only for blackwyrm and maybe terrors, all the dgs any class can tank even at 4man

For most content, you don't need 4/6 players in party. Now what do you do? Run all the dungeons with 2 people or solo it because you don't need 6? 

 

Having a good tank in party makes a dungeon run very smooth and fast. A FM kiting the boss all the time, making it hard for melees to do high dps and poper rotation, is what you don't need!

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