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Just now, Haishao said:

P2W implies there's no possible other way than to PAY to WIN

 

it's p2w if you need to farm your whole life to reach the paying guy

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Rief   
4 minutes ago, Haishao said:

P2W implies there's no possible other way than to PAY to WIN

 

 

Yeah, that's why it's subjective. Because the definition of "Win" is subjective for this game.

 

There are people that struggle with upgrading true profane, and when they see how other people so easily equipped with true pirate. Is it so wrong for them to feel they are losing ?

Edited by Rief

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Enhance   
Just now, Justsomeone said:

it's p2w if you need to farm your whole life to reach the paying guy

That's the thing. At the moment, everything is easily reachable without paying a cent - in current content you can get totally maxed out on everything in just about a couple weeks (or less if you're hardcore)

If they released legendary weapons now, it would take F2P players several months or so at the least to get to the same level as a person who paid 10k USD or whatnot. Making it more "pay 2 win", generally speaking.

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Dray0s   

I find it amazing people are saying "you don't know what p2w is if u deny this game being p2w"

 

you have 0 idea of what p2w is even tho the words Explain themselves.

 

PAY rl money to be Better then a Non-paying Player, this doesn't exist in blade and soul.

 

PvP - Normalised stats, cant do anything.

 

PvE they're carrying you, whos winning?...

 

Open World - Irrelevent.

 

you can achieve the EXACT same rewards either way u go weather u grind or simply Pay your way through the ranks, BTW for those saying "premium is p2w and Players cannot access it" actually you can

 

the Exchange market can Transfer Gold into NC Coins, if u play the auction and farm gold, u will simply grind that 200g, pay for 12k NCcoins and be able to buy like 5 Years of premium instantly, therefore THIS "P2W FEATURE" is the ONLY Feature GIVING a free player premium access with no RL payments. so considering, it is counteracting what ur deeming P2W giving you that Optional Choice through the game how can u then burst out screaming this games p2w.

 

200g = 12k NCcoins, I don't know whos making more for them time realistically, the £120 into the game for 200g or the guy whos spent a few weeks farming out to Earn 12k NCcoins, cause SURELY in such a "p2w" game getting hold of 12k RL Cash store credits is more worthy the gold ur losing Lawl, guys are acting as ur years behind everyone whos paying into the game, but theres players earning 500+ Gold over a month of Auction playing and getting Equally as geared..

 

So please if "p2w" is holding better gear for a MONTH over the next player, then about every game on the markets p2w, the stupidity of F2P Players astonishs me, u can make thje EXACT same amounts of gold BUY the EXACT SAME things, Upgrade ur weapon maybe 2-4 weeks later then a Paying Player, in a game where pvp isn't forced at all and 3/4s of the game has ZERO Punishment for being delayed in gearing.

 

AioN EU was P2w, restricting F2P players to 0 Auction Access 0 Trade access, Reduced Exp Reduced Experience points Restricted from World Chats and Permanantly pvp flagged and Nailed into the ground no matter how hard u tried by paying players cause u couldn't make gold couldn't upgrade items to +15s like Paying players were on low level alts to absolutely wreck your day. THATS THE TRUE definition of P2W, get over urselves with ur dumbass COmplaints.

 

wanna know why NCSoft DONT read these forums?... cause there are too many Morons screaming their mouth out over stuff they just do not have any knowledge about, the fact is the games there to try to make u Pay out, making the game inconvient for u until you do is the PURE Point of entertainment, you want their game they want your money, seriously if you cannot handle that go elsewhere for entertainment, cause EVERY Game out does the exact same thing.

 

"farm ur whole life to catch up" lol, wtf?... how do u even come up with that, at the end of the day gold isn't impossible to make, your a MONTH Behind a gold farm of a Paying Player, that's about it.. it isn't like they give the Next level of Weapon upgrades Weekly to Stop you catching up.

Edited by Dray0s

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Rief   
9 minutes ago, Dray0s said:

he Exchange market can Transfer Gold into NC Coins, if u play the auction and farm gold, u will simply grind that 200g, pay for 12k NCcoins and be able to buy like 5 Years of premium instantly, therefore THIS "P2W FEATURE" is the ONLY Feature GIVING a free player premium access with no RL payments. so considering, it is counteracting what ur deeming P2W giving you that Optional Choice through the game how can u then burst out screaming this games p2w.

 

200g = 12k NCcoins, I don't know whos making more for them time realistically, the £120 into the game for 200g or the guy whos spent a few weeks farming out to Earn 12k NCcoins, cause SURELY in such a "p2w" game getting hold of 12k RL Cash store credits is more worthy the gold ur losing Lawl, guys are acting as ur years behind everyone whos paying into the game, but theres players earning 500+ Gold over a month of Auction playing and getting Equally as geared..

 

 

You never tried selling gold in the exchange ?

 

People sell Ncoin, but when people sell gold what they got is hongmoon coin. 

 

"... and be able to buy like 5 Years of premium instantly, ..."

 

Not true. Hongmoon coin cannot be used to buy premium.

Edited by Rief

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Mishi   
2 hours ago, Rief said:

 

"P2W is when a non-paying player CAN'T achieve the same stats as a paying player. "

 

I absolutely agree with this Nog, that's why this is a P2W. 

 

Please tell me what are they if they are not stat...

 

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/premium-membership/

 

pffgOI8.png

 

Until Premium membership available in hongmoon store, a non paying player can never obtain it in secure way, it's P2W.

Incorrect as a NON premium member can "buy" a Premium gift form a player who spends real life cash on the game.

AKA..find someone you trust, give them gold, have them gift you Premium membership. 

 

And bam, a non paying player now has premium membership, without paying a penny of real life money for it. 

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Rief   
1 minute ago, Mishi said:

Incorrect as a NON premium member can "buy" a Premium gift form a player who spends real life cash on the game.

AKA..find someone you trust, give them gold, have them gift you Premium membership. 

 

And bam, a non paying player now has premium membership, without paying a penny of real life money for it. 

 

Why is it incorrect ? 

 

I did say "a non paying player can never obtain it in secure way"

 

Read "Secure Way".

 

Nsoft didn't facilitate buying premium using gold, if you scammed it's your own fault.

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Nogueira   
1 hour ago, Enhance said:

That's the thing. At the moment, everything is easily reachable without paying a cent - in current content you can get totally maxed out on everything in just about a couple weeks (or less if you're hardcore)

If they released legendary weapons now, it would take F2P players several months or so at the least to get to the same level as a person who paid 10k USD or whatnot. Making it more "pay 2 win", generally speaking.

 

See, this is why they WON'T release Lege weaps atm...

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Mishi   
2 minutes ago, Rief said:

 

Why is it incorrect ? 

 

I did say "a non paying player can never obtain it in secure way"

 

Read "Secure Way".

 

Nsoft didn't facilitate buying premium using gold, if you scammed it's your own fault.

And the secure way would be to have someone you trust do it. 

 

Also I was saying incorrect to the part about this game being P2W. As it is far from P2W. 

Pay for convenience- yes

Pay to win- No.

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Rief   
7 minutes ago, Mishi said:

And the secure way would be to have someone you trust do it. 

 

Also I was saying incorrect to the part about this game being P2W. As it is far from P2W. 

Pay for convenience- yes

Pay to win- No.

 

But, that's the point, mishi. 

If the game truly support equal right fro free player they would have incorporated premium into Hongmoon store-hongmoon coin.

Yes the free player can find someone they can trust and buy premium from that guy, but that's go beyond what was supported.

Because you're winning, doesn;t mean the game is not P2W.

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Mishi   
11 minutes ago, Rief said:

 

But, that's the point, mishi. 

If the game truly support equal right fro free player they would have incorporated premium into Hongmoon store-hongmoon coin.

Yes the free player can find someone they can trust and buy premium from that guy, but that's go beyond what was supported.

Because you're winning, doesn;t mean the game is not P2W.

The game is not pay to win:

Premium do not get stat bonus, skill damage bonuses, extra skills for combat, new shiny gears with more stats, or things in general to gain an advantage over non premium users in combat. 

 

Now Premium members doe get reduced costs on some things, shiny effects while sprinting, wardrobe use, ect.. All of which fall under a convenience category, as they make the game more convenient for upgrading, porting, storing items, ect. 

 

 

Pay to win, is if a Paying member is able to obtain something which gives them an advantage over a free player who spends nothing. 

 

 

As it is currently, the only things a non paying member is unable to obtain compared to a paying member is items in the cash shop for Ncoin only. None of which that I know of give stat bonuses for combat, and most of which you are able to get as a free player (though harder) through in game means which costs no money. (Other than cosmetics, which do not fall under making a character able to win or lose.)

 

 

If the game was pay to win you would see things like:

Higher stated gears than available in game, for purchase only with NCoin.

Items that give a large amount of stat bonuses only for Ncoin. 

ect...

 

 

NCsoft wanted to give Paying members and Subscribers bonuses for spending $$ on their game, however they did not want to make the game pay to win. 

Edited by Mishi

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Rief   
7 minutes ago, Mishi said:

The game is not pay to win:

Premium do not get stat bonus, skill damage bonuses, extra skills for combat, new shiny gears with more stats, or things in general to gain an advantage over non premium users in combat. 

 

Now Premium members doe get reduced costs on some things, shiny effects while sprinting, wardrobe use, ect.. All of which fall under a convenience category, as they make the game more convenient for upgrading, porting, storing items, ect. 

 

 

Pay to win, is if a Paying member is able to obtain something which gives them an advantage over a free player who spends nothing. 

 

 

As it is currently, the only things a non paying member is unable to obtain compared to a paying member is items in the cash shop for Ncoin only. None of which that I know of give stat bonuses for combat, and most of which you are able to get as a free player (though harder) through in game means which costs no money. (Other than cosmetics, which do not fall under making a character able to win or lose.)

 

 

If the game was pay to win you would see things like:

Higher stated gears than available in game, for purchase only with NCoin.

Items that give a large amount of stat bonuses only for Ncoin. 

ect...

 

 

NCsoft wanted to give Paying members and Subscribers bonuses for spending $$ on their game, however they did not want to make the game pay to win. 

 

First of all, Thank you.

 

Thanks for discussing this clearly as civilized being and taking your time posting it. You have no idea how rare it is in this forum.

 

I acknowledge that theoritically, people that pay only gain speed, they gain better stats items faster than no paying players.

 

theoritically, eventually non paying players can catch up with paying players and obtain the same equips.

 

In actual condition, how many people got true pirate equip ? You guys run cross server and check their equip, what does they have ?

 

By the time (or most likely long before) non paying player catched up, another update already arrived. The Bar have been raised again.

 

The access to same equip is an illusion of carrot dangled in front.

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3 hours ago, PvPMS said:

Anyone who denies that this game is pay to win just doesn't understand what pay to win means

You sir do not understand what pay to win totally means. What is there to win currently? World pvp in BnS is so limited that you can avoid it just by changing channels to do your dailies.  Currently it is pay for convenience and speed nothing more.

 

Who can kill monsters in dungeon faster?

Who can do pve faster and carry other players?

 

Even in pvp all stats are normalized even with high end weapons.

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Dray0s   
1 hour ago, Ryuukishi said:

 

Don't be afraid of demonstrating good manners on ze internet, dude. Being mature has nothing do with cheese and porns, so be a true "pro" and act accordingly without sounding like a jerk.

 

I apoologise, its just irritating that its the 500th post on F2P players thinking this game should cater more to People who don't put any money into the game, It feels like a slap in the face for both other players and the developers themselves, they've provided a service, that a population arnt willing to pay for yet condemn what they put into the game, at the end of the day its a form of entertainment, Ofcourse the objective is to get your money, that's initially what any game wants, no matter it be through Expansion release costs, Weather it be Subscription fees or micro-transactions every game out there is demanding your money.

 

Its a Korean game, yet players are complaining the grinds too long for a F2P player to manage, these games are initially created to entertain Players who commonly play this game 10-12 hours a Day non-stop, Asian MMOs follow that exact line of how to build their games, us western markets Don't enjoy those grinds, our games from companies this side of the world cater to that, with Raid Locks per week etc etc Physically preventing anyone Earning gear Faster sheerly through More hours invested then the next player, where in KR they do the opposite, they make huge Leaps in power between those who put 3 hours a day into the game and those who put 10hours into the game.

 

it has time and time been showed, recorded and taught, how to play the AUction currently to make hundreds of gold Quite quickly, which would pay out for everything you need,  and they arnt taking the enconomy into consideration, for example

 

Before the exchange system, prices would have laid on the fact what the top players could afford, it was pointless to charge anymore cause u would never sell them, this created what todays Economy is, now say 100,000 Players bought 500Gold via the currency market, the price of these items would Increase as the demand would be higher, each wave of people buying into this scheme would creep those numbers up, each wave paying more for the last, til the games physically incapable of affording for any player then No one can buy these weapons. the Market in some places is already broken because this was a way of playing before it was official on NCs behalf, plenty were investing in Gold Farmers to buy their gold, or making private transactions to sell players Subs or Cash Store items to other players for in game gold.

 

the fact is, this isn't new.. this Isnt something that wasn't going on, people were buying gold, people were breaking the enconomy to make easy money and People were private trading RL Cash bought items for gold, this was going on from the games release, the game wouldn't be so invested with gold farmers If only a minority were purchasing their services.

 

All the Exchange market has brought is the fact now the Profits made from these players will go directly to NC to help support and Increase the Servers capabilities and Quality, rather then the back pocket of a company from outside the game. I don't see the harm in this, or deem it P2W because its Always existed in the game, just players have come to ignoring that it was possible players were putting money into this gold farming methods and keeping it to the book like themselves, now its more publically Acceptable through a form given to us via NCSoft it has Suddenly caused a Outrage.

 

imho, Maximum upgrading is Possible for a New player before content, the accelerated patchs currently is making that harder, but that's a temporary thing in all honesty til we catch up too KR, it provides no important benefit, with 0 kick functions eltism can never happen so anothers gear will never effect a F2P player, they make the grinds for them easier in dungeons earning their mats faster for their upgrades and they've also put hundreds maybe thousands into the game to get this gear, which is doing exactly what u want them to do, Put the money in so u don't, this also means NCSoft don't have to make the game any more p2w then what it is currently considered Because they're getting their profit from the game.

 

too long to read.

 

I do not mean to come across Rude or Arrogent.

 

This topic is Waaay overused and Repeatitive.

 

The games build to be Grinded hard at, its a Asian MMO. using that as a Justification of why the games p2w is contradictive, as the grinds ment to be so huge u cannot reach the end of the game.

 

Exchange market didn't bring anything Gold Sellers and Private traders weren't already providing.

 

The benefits are very minimal only mattering in PvE where they'll carry you through faster giving you faster mat drops or more runs per hour for that RNG.

 

It costs thousands of pounds to use this method to gear up... they're effectively paying for u to play.

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MENT   

Why do you even want legendary weapons? your gear already maxed?

i think 10-15% of the community maybe have max gear atm, that's a good enough reason to go next tear or gear? i don't think so, give it a time and legendary weapon may appear as well..

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Rief   
1 minute ago, MENT said:

Why do you even want legendary weapons? your gear already maxed?

i think 10-15% of the community maybe have max gear atm, that's a good enough reason to go next tear or gear? i don't think so, give it a time and legendary weapon may appear as well..

 

Naah, very likely less than 5%. 

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Mishi   
1 hour ago, Rief said:

 

First of all, Thank you.

 

Thanks for discussing this clearly as civilized being and taking your time posting it. You have no idea how rare it is in this forum.

 

I acknowledge that theoritically, people that pay only gain speed, they gain better stats items faster than no paying players.

 

theoritically, eventually non paying players can catch up with paying players and obtain the same equips.

 

In actual condition, how many people got true pirate equip ? You guys run cross server and check their equip, what does they have ?

 

By the time (or most likely long before) non paying player catched up, another update already arrived. The Bar have been raised again.

 

The access to same equip is an illusion of carrot dangled in front.

Well thank you as well. :)

(It's a rarity to find any civilized conversation on gaming forums.)

 

As for how many have True pirate equipment, I am unsure. I will say I do have premium, and I have not hit True pirate yet with my weapon. (As the breakthrough is an expensive pain I am working on getting the items for.) As well as my accessories (Except Bracelt/belt) are still Awakened Infernal. 

 

I know some who have not spent a dime have full True pirate, and some which don't. However I believe that can be based on farming and luck. (As some new skills drop now that are apx 200-600 gold, and prior to that some items at first were 300g which are now 20g to buy.) 

I have cruddy RNG luck myself so I've never personally had the drops pop when I'm in the dungeons, and can normally only complete 20ish dailies. (only 2 days can I max all 40.) 

 

Edited by Mishi

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Vysaek   
43 minutes ago, IWantToKnow said:

So basically this game will be  grindfest after 50 lvl patch correct ?

 

Like every other MMO out there? They have to keep the players busy somehow after they burned all the content (storyline, dungueons, sidequests, you get my meaning) and that usually translates in equipment progression nowadays. That along Raids are the End Game you will encounter in any MMO on the market. 

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Main   
4 hours ago, Nogueira said:

 

Player 1 buys NCoin and use the currency exchange to get 1000g. Reaches True Pirate in 3 days.

Player 2 farm everyday, reaches True Pirate in 1 week.

 

BOTH WILL REACH TRUE PIRATE, BOTH WILL HAVE THE SAME STATS AT THE END.

Player 1 CAN'T HAVE MORE STATS THAN Player2 at the end, because there's nothing Player 1 can buy that Player2 can't farm in-game.

 

P2W is when a non-paying player CAN'T achieve the same stats as a paying player.

 

This.

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Rief   

 

Geez, paying players can get 400-500G per day. Non-paying players won;t be able to do it...

 

How come it isn't OP ?

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Main   
1 minute ago, Rief said:

 

Geez, paying players can get 400-500G per day. Non-paying players won;t be able to do it...

 

How come it isn't OP ?

 

yeah man gold makes you op right man right facepalm -_-. IN THE DAMN END YOU WILL ALL HAVE THE SAME STATS weapons and everything, none would be different its just the TIME DIFFERENCE between a paying player and a non-paying player, thats all what is that hard to get geez.

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Vysaek   
2 minutes ago, Main said:

 

yeah man gold makes you op right man right facepalm -_-. IN THE DAMN END YOU WILL ALL HAVE THE SAME STATS weapons and everything, none would be different its just the TIME DIFFERENCE between a paying player and a non-paying player, thats all what is that hard to get geez.

 

While i share your opinion, i suggest you may calm down a bit :P 

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Rief   
5 minutes ago, Main said:

 

yeah man gold makes you op right man right facepalm -_-. IN THE DAMN END YOU WILL ALL HAVE THE SAME STATS weapons and everything, none would be different its just the TIME DIFFERENCE between a paying player and a non-paying player, thats all what is that hard to get geez.

 

Well, if the game is standing still. It's correct.

 

But the game being updated and patched according to the speed that's way beyond non playing player can chase.

 

From Siren to Pirate and now at 3rd march we have naryu.

 

TIME DIFFERENCE is a REAL DIFFERENCE since the finish line keep moving forward.

 

*sigh* read the 1st post. NCSoft won't release Legendary weapon because they fear it become P2W. That only people willing to pay can get the BiS. All the argument saying NOW is already P2W, is because it;s already happening NOW.

Edited by Rief

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Vysaek   
Just now, Rief said:

 

Well, if the game is standing still. It's correct.

 

But the game being updated and patched according to the speed that's way beyond non playing player can chase.

 

From Siren to Pirate and now at 3rd march we have naryu.

 

TIME DIFFERENCE is a REAL DIFFERENCE since the finish line keep moving forward.

 

I get your point of your P2W concept, being able to reach a certain goal having more gold because you threw 500 bucks away in Ncoin (as an example) its a personal decision and not a requirement. Even if you manage to make more gold than me because of the sub or simply because you can spent more money than i have, eventually i will be able to reach your own status, gear speaking.

 

P2W means literally that if you pay, you will be able to obtain a better weapon through the store or other means not available for a free-user. 

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